What’s your deal breaker?

[twangster]

Current deal breaker is a cruise that requires international travel before or after the cruise prior to 2022.  I can deal with onboard restrictions and limitations as needed but I want to embark and debark in my own country through 2022 at least.  

[ehw51]

We wear masks going out every day, makes me feel more comfortable. Would like the idea of rapid test when you get off the ship. We are able to quarantine when we get home, though really would rather not. Keep your masks clean or use disposable, no respiratory problems. I´ll listen to Fauci.

[tonyfsu21]

[Dad2Cue]

10 minutes ago, tonyfsu21 said:

LOCKDOWN

The lockdown is so you don't need the masks and 6 feet...and you just end up going crazy.

[CruisinForABruisin]

2 minutes ago, tonyfsu21 said:

WhY dOn'T tHeY jUsT bUiLd tHe EnTiRe PlAnE oUt oF tHe BlAcK bOx?   

[Ray]

4 hours ago, SpeedNoodles said:

Sure you can. It's called "small pox".

Admittedly this was done in 1980 or there abouts, however 2 lots of the virus are held in storage ( 1 in US 1 in Russia ) scientists have even into the 90s worked on new vaccines because even though there are no cases it is not impossible for it to return. 

In Russia a frozen body was unearthed after a very long period of time, on defrosting the corpse released a virus that had been dormant in the frozen body, this is one situation that medical experts are scared may happen again possibly even with small pox.

 

[sk8erguy1978]

18 hours ago, USFFrank said:

Why do I have this funny feeling that the slot machine I had really wanted to play, but was blocked off for social distancing will be the one that's ready to give the big payout. But I'll never know, I'll be playing the one next to it

My luck! LOL

[Yo2slick]

Here is my deal breaker.  If the onboard experience is changed then there is no point in going.  We go on vacation to have fun and get away.  If all of the ridiculous restrictions on land are on the ship as well.....I can stay home and save money.  If people would use some common sense then we wouldn't be going through all this crap right now.  Washing your hands should have always been in practice.  Locking down and suppressing everyone's immune systems was a mistake and we haven't even begun to see the economic effects of the response to this virus.  Just wait and see, when this election is over in the US...COVID-19 will be a thing of the past.  Stop listening to Mainstream media and start thinking for yourselves.    

[mathbees]

Our only dealbreakers is if they cancel our next cruise, too!  LOL

[Ampurp85]

@Yo2slick Hahha, while COVID-19 has been turned into a political ploy. I doubt it will "go away" right after the November election. I hate that term common sense, because if was so common more people would have it. The lock-down didn't suppress anyone's immunity but as far as the economy goes.....that falls on everyone. Since this was a global catastrophe, we should have been looking for ways to restructure. Instead as a nation we are rushing to get back to "normal," instead of fixing the problems.

[bretts173]

On 5/24/2020 at 6:07 AM, PurdueFlyer said:

face mask is probably my deal breaker unless it's required in very limited quantities.  Getting a q-tip jammed up my nostril at the pier in order to get onboard is a close second.  

Also, the whole "guilty until proven innocent" phase alot of governments are going through (ie, 14 day quarantine when you return from XYZ whether you have symptoms or not).  We don't do this for any other illness.  It needs to stop.  

Really guilty until innocent. Here in Australia we have had a 14 day quarantine on all returning travellers put in hotels by the Govt and enforced. So far there have been over 500 cases out of these travellers who had no symptoms on return but were found to be positive some time during this quarantine period. So what happens when you first return home, you nee to get shopping done so you are out in the public and exponentially could be infecting hundreds of people.

I guess this is why our country has been so successful in combating this virus.

 

 

 

[S0nny]

11 hours ago, tonyfsu21 said:

Hi! These are vary valid questions. Unfortunately, the answer cannot be summed up in a meme. If you are really interested in the answer, feel free to review the literature below. These are all peer-reviewed research articles (and some of them are systematic reviews and meta-analysis). 

The TLDR: Masks work, but we use 6 ft because not everyone can/will a mask. 6ft work because science has shown social distancing to be the easiest intervention to implement on a grand scale. Social distancing COMBINED with masks substantially decreases the likelihood of spreading the virus. The lockdown is in place because science has shown that to be the BEST method to prevent the pandemic from spreading. 

 

Ahmed, F., Zviedrite, N., & Uzicanin, A. (2018). Effectiveness of workplace social distancing measures in reducing influenza transmission: a systematic review. BMC Public Health, 18(1), N.PAG. doi:10.1186/s12889-018-5446-1

Greer, A. L. (2013). Can informal social distancing interventions minimize demand for antiviral treatment during a severe pandemic? BMC Public Health, 13(1). doi: 10.1186/1471-2458-13-669

Hatchett, R., Mecher, C., & Lipsitch, M. (2007). Public health interventions and epidemic intensity during the 1918 influenza pandemic. The National Academy of Sciences, 104(18), 75825-7587. doi:10.1073/pnas.0610941104

Jefferson, T., Foxlee, R., Del Mar, C., Dooley, L., Ferroni, E., Hewak, B., & Rivetti, A. (2007). Interventions for the interruption or reduction of the spread of respiratory viruses. Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews, 2007(4), 1-162. doi:10.1002/14651858.CD006207 pub4/full

Kelso, J. K., Milne, G. J., & Kelly, H. (2009). Simulation suggests that rapid activation of social distancing can arrest epidemic development due to a novel strain of influenza. BMC Public Health, 9(1). doi: 10.1186/1471-2458-9-117

Nicol, G. E., Piccirillo, J. F., Mulsant, B. H., & Lenze, E. J. (2020). Action at a Distance: Geriatric Research during a Pandemic. Journal of the American Geriatrics Society. doi: doi: 10.1111/jgs.16443

[jticarruthers]

Not sure that i have "a deal breaker" yet ... the further it goes towards being a restricted, not fun, pain in the ass as opposed to a relaxing "do what you want, when you want, where you want" get away from the real world the more likely it is to be a dealbreaker.

Masks sound like they would probably be a deal breaker for me .. but i wont know for sure until i hear about it ... i'm not wearing one in my regular life at the moment so to go on vacation and have to wear one sounds like a problem.

Having to make reservations to use facilities, etc. would probably be a deal breaker .. again the point of going on vacation is to relax and enjoy not to have to sit in my cabin waiting for my time slot at the pool to open up.

We shall see, i'm ready to go but it will depend a lot on what the new experience looks like.

[HeWhoWaits]

23 hours ago, Larry Muster said:

Keep us posted on your haircut protest.

My deadline is whenever I feel is needed to look acceptably appropriate for our son's wedding on Labor Day weekend. Until then - mask required to be worn by me = no visit to Great Clips.

[AndrewPunch]

We have a spring break 2021 cruise booked and my deal breaker will be how the kids club/adventure ocean is to be managed.  My goal for vacation is to have some breaks in the day/evening along with lots of family time.  If the kids club isn't operating or is overly restrictive, along with other things on the boat, I won't be going.

[Traveler]

14 days quarantine will be the deal breaker for me  and currently we still have it.

Regarding the mask , I do wear it today in public as it required here by low, but when I am at my office I can take it down (and I am very happy to do so) . by the way  the mask main task is to avoid spreading the C19 if you have one , not to protect you from getting it (for this the masks are not good enough) . In other words if you cough , its better you cough to the mask and no to the air.  

[alamode123]

22 hours ago, tonyfsu21 said:

Here's the best analogy I've heard.

You're at a nudist camp and need to pee. If you're 6 feet apart, you won't pee on anyone and no one will pee on you.

If someone has on pants, even if you're less than 6 feet apart, less pee will get on them, and if they pee, less pee will get on you.

If you both have on pants, no on gets much pee on them.

[tigergal31]

Deal breakers for me:

1 If REQUIRED to take a vaccine

2. Having to wear masks

3. Ports not being open

[STANMELB]

As our next 5 cruises are on an Oasis Class ship. Our deal breakers would be no daily access to the Suite Lounge and not being

able to eat all our daily meals at the Coastal Kitchen.

[GrandmaAirplane]

Deal breakers:

1. Active virus hotspots still in places where other cruisers are likely to be coming from.

2. Reports/reviews of reopened cruises that commonly mention fellow passengers that cannot respect social distancing or heightened hygiene rules onboard, or where boarding screening is reported to be lax.

3. Limitations regarding transit/entry for ports/countries.

4. Quarantine required on returning home.

5. *Any* future incident at all that involves a cruise line failing to properly disclose/inform a known risk of exposure to embarking passengers. On this, all cruise lines will have to be totally transparent, or there will be no return to cruising for me at all!

Because of the likelihood of #1 and #4, we did a Lift & Shift of our Fall 2020 family cruise to 2021. The 2021 cruise will then also depend on #2 and #5 as well.

[HeWhoWaits]

22 hours ago, alamode123 said:

Here's the best analogy I've heard.

You're at a nudist camp and need to pee. If you're 6 feet apart, you won't pee on anyone and no one will pee on you.

If someone has on pants, even if you're less than 6 feet apart, less pee will get on them, and if they pee, less pee will get on you.

If you both have on pants, no on gets much pee on them.

If you're at a nudist camp, why would either party have on pants?

[Scrumps]

I personally don't see how any changes on board is going to make much of a different for a virus that is past via respiratory droplets. You can clean all the surfaces you want, but people in an elevator, walking down the corridor/boardwalk, in the theater, or around a bar/pool etc and game over if 1 person is asymptomatic. Masks are proving to be the significant factor in reducing the spread of the virus and yet a huge number of people refuse to wear one when inside public buildings.

Our deal breakers are:

1. The 14 day home quarantine my wife will have to take using PTO and then unpaid leave. She already had to use 2 weeks when we got back from England in March.
2. That there appears to be no answers (yet) on what happens if there is an active or suspected covid case on board a ship.  Will ports be open for that ship?  will it be refused entry? Will the US home port refuse the ship returning as planned?  Will the passengers will allowed to get out as normal or will the whole ship be quarantined?  Will airlines allow you to fly if they know you just got on a cruise ship where there were covid cases?

I continue to read a lot about changes on board ship. So far I have seen nothing on the logistics of the an active case on board a ship.

 

[Ogilthorpe]

58 minutes ago, HeWhoWaits said:

If you're at a nudist camp, why would either party have on pants?

Like many exam questions, the answer was in the question: "If you both have on pants, no on gets much pee on them."

[Traveler]

Oh , forgot another deal breaker - insurance company to resume issuing travel travel insurance which will cover the C-19 

[L454S]

14 hours ago, GrandmaAirplane said:

Deal breakers:

1. Active virus hotspots still in places where other cruisers are likely to be coming from.

2. Reports/reviews of reopened cruises that commonly mention fellow passengers that cannot respect social distancing or heightened hygiene rules onboard, or where boarding screening is reported to be lax.

3. Limitations regarding transit/entry for ports/countries.

4. Quarantine required on returning home.

5. *Any* future incident at all that involves a cruise line failing to properly disclose/inform a known risk of exposure to embarking passengers. On this, all cruise lines will have to be totally transparent, or there will be no return to cruising for me at all!

Because of the likelihood of #1 and #4, we did a Lift & Shift of our Fall 2020 family cruise to 2021. The 2021 cruise will then also depend on #2 and #5 as well.

My goodness, I don't think you will be sailing again for a long time....if ever.

[GrandmaAirplane]

1 hour ago, L454S said:

My goodness, I don't think you will be sailing again for a long time....if ever.

I am hoping to - but you’re right, I may not. I am not the only one thinking these things out loud.

It’s really the corporate response to future outbreak incidents that will be the true lasting deal breaker for me...

Not the absence of incidents, but the trust in the response.

[spursfreak21]

A bunch of people have said masks. I think masks are going to be around for a while. I’m a bit concerned about the cruise industry if the comments here reflect a percentage of the potential cruisers. Matt’s recent Facebook poll seemed to show the same results. 

[Larry Muster]

14 minutes ago, bytheslice said:

If I have to wear a mask, I am not cruising. Real men don't wear masks!

Also, if Royal increases the gratuities charge, no cruising for this real man.

There are a lot of first responders out there on the front lines that wear masks.  Let me know when you want to go up to the firehouse with me to tell the firefighters that real men don’t wear masks. 

[Joe01]

Definitely masks.

[bretts173]

I honestly do not see the point of masks and social distancing on a cruise ship. Fact is if there is no virus on board, no one will get it. If there is then it will spread no matter what controls. If you go on a ship thinking there is a chance of there being virus on board why go?

 

[bretts173]

On 5/26/2020 at 1:25 AM, tigergal31 said:

Deal breakers for me:

1 If REQUIRED to take a vaccine

2. Having to wear masks

3. Ports not being open

Your number 1 is the deal breaker for me to go. All people should have a certificate of vaccination.

 

[mworkman]

6 hours ago, bretts173 said:

Your number 1 is the deal breaker for me to go. All people should have a certificate of vaccination.

 

There's a great possibility that there may never be a vaccine, i say this based on several articles i've see.  They say only time will tell.

Things to ponder on, what if this becomes the new norm just like influenzas, because it is a virus after all. 

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/no-vaccine-for-coronavirus-a-possibility/news-story/34e678ae205b50ea983cc64ab2943608

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/heres-exactly-where-were-at-with-vaccines-and-treatments-for-covid-19#Searching-for-effective-treatments

 

[Al Horner]

When it comes to cruising, I am not interested in a "new normal." Wearing a mask is, for me, an absolute deal breaker. I can not imagine going on a cruise and wearing a mask. I would only go on a cruise to get away from all this and to relax and have fun.

[HeWhoWaits]

8 hours ago, bretts173 said:

Your number 1 is the deal breaker for me to go. All people should have a certificate of vaccination.

Do you also think I should be required to show a certificate of vaccination for MMR? Oh, wait - they didn't give "certificates" in the 60's when I had SEPARATE shots for measles (both kinds) or for when I suffered a case of the mumps.

How about proof that I got a flu shot this year if sailing during flu "season" as well?

Even if a vaccine is developed, there is no way the cruise lines will require "proof" that each passenger received it (or already recovered from the disease).

[mworkman]

Things that make you go hmmmm.... What is the original intent/purpose of surgical masks? 

Surgical mask

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

 

Jump to navigationJump to search

Surgical mask
A surgical mask
Other names	Procedure mask, medical mask, isolation mask, laser mask, fluid-resistant masks, face mask
[edit on Wikidata]

A surgical mask, also known as a face mask, is intended to be worn by health professionals during healthcare procedures.^[1][2] It is designed to prevent infections in patients and treating personnel by catching bacteria shed in liquid droplets and aerosols from the wearer's mouth and nose.^[3][4][5] They are not designed to protect the wearer from breathing in airborne bacteria or viruses whose particles are smaller. With respect to some infections like influenza they appear as effective as respirators, such as N95 or FFP masks;^[6] though the latter provide better protection in laboratory experiments due to their material, shape and tight seal.^[7][8]

Surgical masks vary by quality and levels of protection. Despite their name, not all surgical masks are appropriate to be used during surgery. Surgical masks may be labeled as surgical, isolation, dental, or medical procedure masks.^[9] Chinese health officials distinguish between medical (non-surgical) and surgical masks.^[10]

Surgical masks are made of a nonwoven fabric created using a melt blowing process. They came into use in the 1960s and largely replaced cloth facemasks in developed countries. The use of surgical masks during the COVID-19 pandemic has been a subject of debate,^[11] as shortages of surgical masks is a central issue.^[12][13]

Surgical masks are popularly worn by the general public all year round in East Asian countries like China, Japan and South Korea to reduce the chance of spreading airborne diseases to others, and to prevent the breathing in of airborne dust particles created by air pollution.^[14] Additionally, surgical masks have become a fashion statement, particularly in contemporary East Asian culture bolstered by its popularity in Japanese and Korean pop culture which have a big impact on East Asian youth culture.^[15][16]

Mask's are not designed for those that aren't sick to wear, but for those that are sick to keep from spreading it.  It's like we've got this thing turned around! 

Why can't we go back to the way it was intended/designed for?

[spursfreak21]

We are wearing masks for exactly the intent you referenced in the article. To prevent you from getting others sick. You may be an asymptomatic carrier or you may be infected but don’t have the symptoms yet. It’s not to protect you it’s to protect everyone else.  

[twangster]

51 minutes ago, mworkman said:

Mask's are not designed for those that aren't sick to wear, but for those that are sick to keep from spreading it.  It's like we've got this thing turned around! 

Why can't we go back to the way it was intended/designed for?

In that other thread you posted a graphic showing that 35% of all cases are asymptomatic.  These people don't know they are infected and never show any signs of the infection but carry the virus and spread it to others.  

The other use case involves presymptomatic individuals.  These are people who have become infected but they haven't shown any symptoms yet but eventually do.

The source for the graphic quoted can be found on the CDC's website: 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html

Asymptomatic carriers, overall 35%

Presymptomatic carriers 40% - with a mean time to show symptoms at 6 days.  For 6 days days people in this category have the virus and are capable of spreading it but have no idea they are infected. 

The purpose of wearing the mask is to slow the spread from asymptomatic and presymptomatic carriers.  These are the individuals who don't know they are infected.    

We need to reopen, we all see the devastating impact of shutting down the economy.  The virus isn't over so how do we reopen while the virus is still aggressively spreading?  The wearing of masks is a simple action that allows us to move forward and reopen more safely while taking steps to reduce spread resulting in fewer deaths.   

[loki007]

1) Wearing a mask

2) Not being able to do what we want, when we want. If we are limited in any way regarding pool time, casino time, dining we will cancel and rent an AIRBNB for a week somewhere instead. 

[JimnKathy]

One bit of encouraging news is that the latest findings are that the virus doesn't seem to survive nearly as long as originally feared on public surfaces (tables, chairs, handrails, door handles, etc.).  This could be a huge difference-maker for estimated sailing restart dates.

[S0nny]

11 hours ago, mworkman said:

Mask's are not designed for those that aren't sick to wear, but for those that are sick to keep from spreading it.

The most important part of that citation seems to be something that was completely glossed over...

11 hours ago, mworkman said:

It is designed to prevent infections in patients and treating personnel by catching bacteria shed in liquid droplets and aerosols from the wearer's mouth and nose.^[3][4]

Surgical masks are designed to capture bacteria from the wearer’s mouth, and prevent them from spreading to other surfaces (or people). While Wikipedia goes on to delineate between surgical masks and masks used to prevent airborne illnesses (like N95 masks or respirators), we can still use surgical masks to prevent infection through universal use. One of the primary benefits of wearing a surgical mask in the “healthy” is by acting as a physical barrier to your mouth and nose (something humans touch constantly without realizing it).