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The Must-Wear-a-Face-Mask Protocol for vaccinated passengers


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41 minutes ago, UNCFanatik said:

It’s just a mask…

its just 2 weeks…

it’s just 15 days to slow the spread..

its just shutting down children’s playgrounds to protect them..

its just closing beaches…

its just a 5 year old wearing a mask all day in school…

its just having children at summer camps in extreme temps required to wear masks..

it’s just suspending elective surgeries at hospitals for a Covid surge that didn’t happen…

its just an increased rate in suicides among young people because of isolation…

I’m sorry but it is a big deal when the CDC and our government has been so wrong so often about Covid and Covid protocols/lockdowns over the last year

Hopefully we learn from the past and seriously evaluate the mitigation methods taken against Covid and not repeat these same mistakes moving forward and this includes the cruise lines and masking. After July 18 when the CSO is no longer enforceable, masks should not be required on cruise ships. Cause guess what, even with masks, Covid cases will happen. 

 

 

 

 

Except, that's not what we're talking about here - just masks, and the idea of having to wear them intermittently on a vacation. Everything else you've mentioned is irrelevant when it comes to face mask protocols in particular on a cruise ship. In this case, it IS just a mask. You still get to cruise. You can still have a very enjoyable time. If someone really thinks it will ruin their vacation they I guess they don't have to cruise. I'm double vaxxed, and don't think I need to be wearing a mask, but I will still respect a business' rule. Again, it is a minor inconvenience in the grand scheme of things. If it's any more than that, don't go until the rule changes.

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1 hour ago, Danielle OG said:

Except, that's not what we're talking about here - just masks, and the idea of having to wear them intermittently on a vacation. Everything else you've mentioned is irrelevant when it comes to face mask protocols in particular on a cruise ship. In this case, it IS just a mask. You still get to cruise. You can still have a very enjoyable time. If someone really thinks it will ruin their vacation they I guess they don't have to cruise. I'm double vaxxed, and don't think I need to be wearing a mask, but I will still respect a business' rule. Again, it is a minor inconvenience in the grand scheme of things. If it's any more than that, don't go until the rule changes.

Some people like to wear earrings. It's just earrings. But there's no mandate for everyone to wear them whether their ears are pierced or not.

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1 hour ago, smokeybandit said:

Some people like to wear earrings. It's just earrings. But there's no mandate for everyone to wear them whether their ears are pierced or not.

That analogy isn't remotely comparable to something about one's health versus one's vanity. 

More importantly, this isn't Royal Caribbean's decision. It's CDC requirements and from what I can tell, executives would love to drop the mask mandate for vaccinated in a heart beat if it were up to them.

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27 minutes ago, Matt said:

That analogy isn't remotely comparable to something about one's health versus one's vanity. 

More importantly, this isn't Royal Caribbean's decision. It's CDC requirements and from what I can tell, executives would love to drop the mask mandate for vaccinated in a heart beat if it were up to them.

Well, the data about masks suggests there's a fair amount of ambiguity around their effectiveness. Most of the lower confidence intervals include zero, meaning in many typical-use scenarios, they offer about as much as earrings.

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4 hours ago, Matt said:

If kids are with you, then you're treated as unvaccinated.  

When my kids are with me, where do I go onboard that is indoors?

  • Windjammer or MDR (masks off while dining)
  • Lounges for trivia (masks off if I have a drink, which I commonly do)

The biggest issue for my family (if they had come) would have been kids couldn't come to Izumi hibachi because that's a vaccinated zone only. 

My kids wore their masks on Adventure for 2 weeks, but they were also used to wearing masks at school.  

As long as there is lots of air conditioning, wearing a mask isn't a problem for me.

On another group a mom said they were all considered unvaccinated because there was one unvaccinated child in their party. And she wasn’t allowed in unvaccinated areas even when alone. Can this possibly be true?  Seems insane.

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11 minutes ago, PG Cruiser said:

I don’t care about chair hogs because I don’t go to the pool deck on cruises.

But I need to know where I can get masks to match my proper attire.

DW wife just order 6 on Amazon all for color coordination. I just shake my head

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44 minutes ago, Pooch said:

Can I just say how TIRED I am of the debate?  Wear a mask, don’t wear a mask, vaccinate, don’t vaccinate.  We aren’t convincing anyone to change their stance here. Can’t we talk about chair hogs and proper attire????

Exactly. This is why we have rules here to stop this sort of "discussion". It just angers everyone (even the person writes it is probably jacked up).

At this point, it is what it is. Let's let it leave be.

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2 hours ago, Matt said:

Exactly. This is why we have rules here to stop this sort of "discussion". It just angers everyone (even the person writes it is probably jacked up).

At this point, it is what it is. Let's let it leave be.

What rules to stop what sort of discussion (I just went and looked and found just one post locked at the top of a different forum which didn't appear to mention anything this thread allegedly broke)?

 

Anyway, the point here is one specific aspect of the protocols as announced so far, and a certain ambiguity as to why they exist, because some exist for sailings outside of CDC jurisdiction, and we know for sure that this mask requirement isn't 100% across every Royal Caribbean ship because we both sailed on Adventure of the Seas, with fewer than the magical CDC 95% vaccinated passengers, and as vaccinated passengers did not have to wear a mask anywhere aboard the ship.

Mask wearing indoors for vaccinated people has been all but eliminated in current CDC guidance, except for allowing it to continue where various laws or businesses say it should continue. And the current requirement regarding transportation services (which I do maintain is not applicable to cruise ships; they are not a means of conveyance as described for every single other type of travel, and aren't identified in the way the CDC repeatedly writes about this requirement).

So that really leaves the specific guidance written just for cruise ships, which we still seem to be in a waiting mode for updates that either bring it to match other guidelines or perhaps to be part of some larger overall update currently under discussion with CLIA, CDC and the cruise lines. We keep getting hints this specific part of protocols is about to change. It even makes sense it should change. It's a significant difference in the environment of a cruise ship for perhaps at least 90% of passengers, if not more. And it likely will drive a significant number of people's decision to cruise or not cruise aboard a ship when the actual time comes. There should be more discussion and transparency about that policy.

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39 minutes ago, dswallow said:

we both sailed on Adventure of the Seas, with fewer than the magical CDC 95% vaccinated passengers, and as vaccinated passengers did not have to wear a mask anywhere aboard the ship.

Nassau departures are not under CDC or US jurisdiction of any sort.  You experienced what Royal Caribbean determined was the right protocol for Adventure.  

39 minutes ago, dswallow said:

Mask wearing indoors for vaccinated people has been all but eliminated in current CDC guidance,

Not really.  It's federal law for all forms of public transportation plus it's written quite firmly into the CSO.  The CDC is advising partner agencies to relax enforcement of their policy outdoors, but not indoors.  It's kind of strange they won't update their own policy but suggest it shouldn't be enforced outdoors.  WTF?

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4 hours ago, Matt said:

That analogy isn't remotely comparable to something about one's health versus one's vanity. 

More importantly, this isn't Royal Caribbean's decision. It's CDC requirements and from what I can tell, executives would love to drop the mask mandate for vaccinated in a heart beat if it were up to them.

However it IS up to them to not restrict numbers of unvaccinated, so in a way, it is Royal’s decision. 

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6 hours ago, AlmondFarmer said:

On the bright side-

With all the alleged variants to come, Americans will finally learn the Greek alphabet and potentially improve their math and physics competency. 

In my college fraternity days I could recite the Greek alphabet twice while holding a lit match. 

My hubby had to recite 3 times with lit match. Those were the good old days. 

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18 minutes ago, TXcruzer said:

However it IS up to them to not restrict numbers of unvaccinated, so in a way, it is Royal’s decision. 

Mask policy isn't dependent on the ratios or numbers of unvaccinated present.  The CDC policy is masks indoors except when eating or drinking - period.  That applies to vaccinated and unvaccinated.  

If by chance a US departure happened to have 100% vaccinated, CDC policy still says masks must be worn indoors except when actively eating or drinking.

The mask policy is in no way within Royal's control - for US departures.

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(1) CSO, Mask Use:

COVID-19 Operations Manual for Simulated and Restricted Voyages under the Framework for Conditional Sailing Order | Quarantine | CDC
 

  • For ships with at least 95% of crew and 95% of passengers fully vaccinated, cruise ship operators, at their discretion, may advise passengers and crew that they do not have to wear a mask or maintain physical distance in any areas.

 

(2) Mask order, and inapplicability to cruise ships:

Order: Wearing of face masks while on conveyances and at transportation hubs | Quarantine | CDC

*CDC also plans to amend the January 29, 2021, Order, as soon as practicable, to grant cruise ship operators subject to the Conditional Sailing Order with greater flexibility regarding how mask requirements are implemented on board cruise ships.  Until it can amend the Order, CDC will exercise enforcement discretion regarding mask requirements applicable to operators of, and crew and passengers on board, such cruise ships and will view cruise ship operators as in compliance with the January 29, 2021, Order provided the operators continue to follow the requirements of any technical instructions and the operations manual available on the Cruise Ship Guidance webpage.
 

(Yeah, really idiotic they do it that way, but still, there it is in writing)

 

(3) The overall everything-except-the-CSO change to not requiring mask use indoors:

When You’ve Been Fully Vaccinated | CDC
 

  • Fully vaccinated people can resume activities without wearing a mask or physically distancing, except where required by federal, state, local, tribal, or territorial laws, rules, and regulations, including local business and workplace guidance.

 

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8 hours ago, Danielle OG said:

Except, that's not what we're talking about here - just masks, and the idea of having to wear them intermittently on a vacation. Everything else you've mentioned is irrelevant when it comes to face mask protocols in particular on a cruise ship. In this case, it IS just a mask. You still get to cruise. You can still have a very enjoyable time. If someone really thinks it will ruin their vacation they I guess they don't have to cruise. I'm double vaxxed, and don't think I need to be wearing a mask, but I will still respect a business' rule. Again, it is a minor inconvenience in the grand scheme of things. If it's any more than that, don't go until the rule changes.

I disagree there is a difference between wearing a mask to enter a store or to board an airplane and wearing a mask on a cruise ship any time you're outside your stateroom while moving around from venue to venue. I'm fully vaccinated have been for some time I've taken several vacations since being vaccinated in fact I'm on vacation now in New Orleans I can not fathom having to put a mask back on as a fully vaccinated individual even on a cruise ship.

In my view either the vaccines work or they don't work. If they do work and I believe they do what was there original intent?  There original intent was to prevent severe infections that resulted in hospitalization or God forbid death. We know the vaccines are working at least here in the US, because the  number of people who are now requiring hospitalization and ICU bed are mostly unvaccinated individuals. The vaccines were never designed to prevent infection they were designed to keep people out of the hospital or worst the morgue, so fully vaccinated people should not need to wear mask. They have to stop moving the goal posts, we saw them move the goal post when it cam to testing now they are moving the goal posts again as it pertains to the vaccines.  

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@cruisinghawg

22 hours ago, cruisinghawg said:

The 18th is when the CSO could become "null and void". AA has nothing to do with the cruise industry.

OP said he wasn't going to fly if he had to wear mask, that's why I brought up Airline. A good chunk of people have to fly to the ports.

CSO doesn't become null and void, it becomes a guideline. I personally don't bank on things changing much or even faster just because CSO is now a guideline.

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1 hour ago, Ampurp85 said:

@cruisinghawg

OP said he wasn't going to fly if he had to wear mask, that's why I brought up Airline. A good chunk of people have to fly to the ports.

CSO doesn't become null and void, it becomes a guideline. I personally don't bank on things changing much or even faster just because CSO is now a guideline.

I actually said I wasn't going to fly connecting flights again while the mask mandate remains. I can deal with it onboard, probably specifically because I can aim the little air outlet at my face. I won't like it much, but that isn't horrible and has a relatively manageable time-with-mask. Granted, I'm not talking about any need whatsoever to even go coast-to-coast (i.e., 6/7 hour flights), which would certainly change my statement were that necessary

But the in-between time of connections, stuck in an airport with the same mask mandate is too much. You can't readily get outside without leaving the secure area and having to re-enter through whatever mess the TSA has at the moment, so it's not practical to "go outside" while waiting for a connection. I just endured this for almost 16 hours total returning from Nassau on a connecting flight. Not gonna put myself into that situation again.

In any event, other than a return to Nassau for another B2B in September (all nonstop), the 16 cruises I currently have booked are from ports I drive to -- NJ or MD.

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@dswallow I reread your post and I agree, the most I can do is 10hrs in a mask. Even then I need to go out and get a break. Thankfully, I no longer have to work in mask. But if I need to take the train or a Uber then it is back to mask. I don't want to wear mask on my vacation but I want to cruise so .......

 

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