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Is There a Crack in the Impenetrable Cruise Vaccination Wall ?


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I'm posting this in the Rumors section b/c I have not seen it but one place, so far.

La Vida Loca is reporting that Celebrity will be lifting the vaccination requirement for passengers under 17 years old, for cruises from Europe.

Granted, this is a subset of a subset of a subset of cruisers, but to my knowledge this is the first time I have read of any vaccination requirement being lifted anywhere.  Testing requirements ?  Yes...but not vaxxes as far as I know.

Anybody else hear this anywhere officially ?  Could there be a crack ?

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24 minutes ago, WAAAYTOOO said:

I'm posting this in the Rumors section b/c I have not seen it but one place, so far.

La Vida Loca is reporting that Celebrity will be lifting the vaccination requirement for passengers under 17 years old, for cruises from Europe.

Granted, this is a subset of a subset of a subset of cruisers, but to my knowledge this is the first time I have read of any vaccination requirement being lifted anywhere.  Testing requirements ?  Yes...but not vaxxes as far as I know.

Anybody else hear this anywhere officially ?  Could there be a crack ?

This is from Celebrities Southampton England embarkation healthy protocols "As of June 8, 2022, all guests ages 18 and older must be fully vaccinated."  So it is official.

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35 minutes ago, WAAAYTOOO said:

I'm posting this in the Rumors section b/c I have not seen it but one place, so far.

La Vida Loca is reporting that Celebrity will be lifting the vaccination requirement for passengers under 17 years old, for cruises from Europe.

Granted, this is a subset of a subset of a subset of cruisers, but to my knowledge this is the first time I have read of any vaccination requirement being lifted anywhere.  Testing requirements ?  Yes...but not vaxxes as far as I know.

Anybody else hear this anywhere officially ?  Could there be a crack ?

La Lido Loca is where I heard it as well. 

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Tony ( I assume you're referencing the below video) is usually pretty careful about where he gets his news from - official sources or multiple eyewitness accounts only - so I wouldn't doubt what's being said. That said, I did pop around on the Celebrity site and for South Hampton, Barcelona, Italy, and Amsterdam : "As of June 8, 2022, all guests ages 18 and older must be fully vaccinated" appears on the Vaccine policy page. This aligns with what Tony reports.

CRUISE NEWS - CRUISE LINE ENDS VACCINE MANDATE FOR SOME and MORE

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42 minutes ago, WAAAYTOOO said:

I'm posting this in the Rumors section b/c I have not seen it but one place, so far.

La Vida Loca is reporting that Celebrity will be lifting the vaccination requirement for passengers under 17 years old, for cruises from Europe.

Granted, this is a subset of a subset of a subset of cruisers, but to my knowledge this is the first time I have read of any vaccination requirement being lifted anywhere.  Testing requirements ?  Yes...but not vaxxes as far as I know.

Anybody else hear this anywhere officially ?  Could there be a crack ?

Until the CDC removes the vaccine requirements from it's "voluntary" protocols I believe the vaccine requirements will remain in place for the US port embarkations. 

Actually, in my opinion, the crack is larger in the precruise testing requirements.

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To add a new layer of conspiracy to the vaccine situation....I heard on ANOTHER vid that Carnival is no longer requiring a doctor's letter for the request(s) for vaccine exemption.  This rumor is even more esoteric than the Celebrity one in that there is absolutely no additional information as to exactly what IS required for their (Carnival's) exemption process....simply that the doctor's letter is no longer required.  As far as I know (and that's not saying much) this new Carnival requirement affects all sailings, including the US.  So......

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I herd/saw both articles/rumors.

The Carnival one sounded like basically "medical exemptions are on the honor system". I dont recall how Carnival is setup vis a vis the whole %of unvax/allowing exemptions deal. It might basically be meaningless since they can only take a very small # of unvax individuals anyway.

I know the common wisdom is that it is going to be a while yet, i just dont see how much longer one tiny segment is going to be enforcing rules that no one else is even thinking about.

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3 hours ago, Snowchaser said:

With the questionable state of the world economy my opinion is that no option will be left off the table to keep bookings up.  This would definitely apply to finding work-arounds to get unvaccinated back onboard to keep profits up, nothing drives policy change more than the mighty dollar.

But bookings are already up even within the current regulatory environment.  I don't think the vaccine requirement is hurting the cruise lines at all.

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4 hours ago, TXcruzer said:

But bookings are already up even within the current regulatory environment.  I don't think the vaccine requirement is hurting the cruise lines at all.

Not to debate this with you because it would be a political debate.  But, my antidotal evidence is that there are still a lot of people that haven't been jabbed, will never be jabbed and refuse to cruise/travel because of the jab.  So, I believe that if the jab mandate goes away, business would be even better for the cruise/travel industry. 

Going from zero passenger count to what it is today isn't remarkable.  Bookings were going up from day one, when it was required to wear a mask 100% of the time, excluding in your own stateroom and actually eating/drinking, and you had to be jabbed.  People were just happy to be out and about.  I think people would have cruised if you told them they had to wear "Depends" over their head and give urine specimens ever 3 hours.  JMHO

 

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2 hours ago, Suite Snob said:

Not to debate this with you because it would be a political debate.  But, my antidotal evidence is that there are still a lot of people that haven't been jabbed, will never be jabbed and refuse to cruise/travel because of the jab.  So, I believe that if the jab mandate goes away, business would be even better for the cruise/travel industry. 

Going from zero passenger count to what it is today isn't remarkable.  Bookings were going up from day one, when it was required to wear a mask 100% of the time, excluding in your own stateroom and actually eating/drinking, and you had to be jabbed.  People were just happy to be out and about.  I think people would have cruised if you told them they had to wear "Depends" over their head and give urine specimens ever 3 hours.  JMHO

 

It doesn't need to be a political debate.  I agree that there are many that have not and will not receive vaccines. I agree dropping the mandate would increase the pool from which to draw customers for all industries. However the data is pretty concrete, a large majority of ships are sailing at capacity; will it sustain at those levels remains to be seen. For now, the requirements are not hurting.

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12 hours ago, TXcruzer said:

It doesn't need to be a political debate.  I agree that there are many that have not and will not receive vaccines. I agree dropping the mandate would increase the pool from which to draw customers for all industries. However the data is pretty concrete, a large majority of ships are sailing at capacity; will it sustain at those levels remains to be seen. For now, the requirements are not hurting.

And we are on the same sheet of music.  

I mention political debate for general consumption.  I just didn't want ANYONE to jump in a start the blame game and so on.  Didn't want to violate any rules here. 

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Every protocol that has been implemented chips away at the ability to enjoy a vacation.  Every protocol impacts the travel industry.  Some more than others and some in ways that aren't as easy to quantify.  The removal of the testing requirement for inbound international flights has created significant impact on the travel industry.  Just because planes were full before they removed testing doesn't mean there was no impact from the testing requirement for international flights.

Other protocols like pre-cruise testing impact the travel industry.  Vaccination requirements impact the travel industry.  There are people now that are not cruising because of these protocols. 

At the moment there are many new to cruise booking travel that is largely rebound or pent up demand from having minimal travel for two years.  There will soon come a time when that pent up demand has been satisfied.  The state of the economy and inflation may soon put the brakes on travel demand.  When that occurs the industry will need the folks who are currently avoiding travel due to protocols. 

Just because ships are full doesn't mean that there is no impact from the current protocols.

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3 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

I wonder if RC will ever release how much money they've spent on reimbursements for positive tests pre-cruise (refunds) and mid-cruise (pro-rated refunds and quarantine-related costs and reimbursements).

Wouldn't all of that have to come out in their shareholder reports and SEC filings?  I'm not a big market guy so I really don't know for sure. 

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4 hours ago, twangster said:

Every protocol that has been implemented chips away at the ability to enjoy a vacation.  Every protocol impacts the travel industry.  Some more than others and some in ways that aren't as easy to quantify.  The removal of the testing requirement for inbound international flights has created significant impact on the travel industry.  Just because planes were full before they removed testing doesn't mean there was no impact from the testing requirement for international flights.

Other protocols like pre-cruise testing impact the travel industry.  Vaccination requirements impact the travel industry.  There are people now that are not cruising because of these protocols. 

At the moment there are many new to cruise booking travel that is largely rebound or pent up demand from having minimal travel for two years.  There will soon come a time when that pent up demand has been satisfied.  The state of the economy and inflation may soon put the brakes on travel demand.  When that occurs the industry will need the folks who are currently avoiding travel due to protocols. 

Just because ships are full doesn't mean that there is no impact from the current protocols.

Commercial aviation is a tough one.  The industry isn't flying at full strength, they are short pilots and others critical to wheels up, flights canceled in the dozens/hundreds daily.  So, even though I believe mandates did/have effected all kinds of travel, I don't think we can get a clear picture as to how they are/have effected the airline industry.  Not yet anyway.

Edited by Suite Snob
Oh, and the same can be true to a lesser effect to Cruise Lines. Cruise Lines are just recently getting 100% of their equipment back in service.
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30 minutes ago, Suite Snob said:

Commercial aviation is a tough one.  The industry isn't flying at full strength, they are short pilots and others critical to wheels up, flights canceled in the dozens/hundreds daily.  So, even though I believe mandates did/have effected all kinds of travel, I don't think we can get a clear picture as to how they are/have effected the airline industry.  Not yet anyway.

Look beyond Aviation.  Hotels and cruises in Europe for example.   On lines like Royal a generous portion of a Europe cruise would typically have a sizable US based guest contingency.  Europe bookings have been soft this year.  The discontinuous and highly variable protocols within the EU contributed to that but also the US international flight testing was the final straw that caused a lot of Americans to not do Europe this summer.  

It's probably a good thing demand is off.  Had Americans tried to vacation in Europe in pre-pandemic numbers the airlines would have been crushed a lot worse than they were.

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On 6/17/2022 at 9:01 AM, jticarruthers said:

The Carnival one sounded like basically "medical exemptions are on the honor system". 

La Vida Loca has just confirmed that this is the case.  Any medical or religious exemptions now require NO documentation.  Eligibility to cruise with an exemption is still entirely up to Carnival to determine (they must still comply with the 90% vaxxed rules) so you must pay your cruise fare in total before you find out if you will even be allowed to cruise unvaxxed and you will still be required to test so that leaves us out BUT I do see cracks in the dam.  This new rule applies to any cruise, including the Caribbean. Yay !  Moving in the right direction.

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1 hour ago, Suite Snob said:

Wouldn't all of that have to come out in their shareholder reports and SEC filings?  I'm not a big market guy so I really don't know for sure. 

Those costs would likely be lumped into the category of "non-recurring items" so there won't be any breakdown required.

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1 hour ago, Suite Snob said:

Commercial aviation is a tough one.  The industry isn't flying at full strength, they are short pilots and others critical to wheels up, flights canceled in the dozens/hundreds daily.  So, even though I believe mandates did/have effected all kinds of travel, I don't think we can get a clear picture as to how they are/have effected the airline industry.  Not yet anyway.

Commercial aviation is tough in that while traffic (at least domestic) has nearly rebounded, it's doing so with less flights. Domestic flights averaged about 700k per month prior to covid, and even now just getting back to 600k.  Then look at international which is even further behind.

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8 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Commercial aviation is tough in that while traffic (at least domestic) has nearly rebounded, it's doing so with less flights. Domestic flights averaged about 700k per month prior to covid, and even now just getting back to 600k.  Then look at international which is even further behind.

On my most recent cruise, May 13th, Ovation, Seattle, we flew Southwest from Atlanta.  Multiple stops both ways, every leg was completely full.  In fact, in Las Vegas, on our return flight to Atlanta, Southwest was offering $600.00 and a free flight to Atlanta the next day if you'd give up the flight we were on.  My wife wanted to do that so bad.  I was in a hurry to get the flying thing over with and get home.  But, that's it.  Before this last trip, I hadn't flown for over a couple decades and promised that I would never fly again.  Well, I broke my own commitment and flew to/from Seattle.  That's it, never again.  Well, until there is an again, again.  😄

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9 minutes ago, Suite Snob said:

In fact, in Las Vegas, on our return flight to Atlanta, Southwest was offering $600.00 and a free flight to Atlanta the next day if you'd give up the flight we were on

We had that on our way to Vancouver through LAX. The LAX flight was oversold, and they asked for volunteers.  We asked if they could move us to the direct flight to Vancouver and they did that. Saved us 3 hours in travel time.  No money offered, but seeing as the direct flight was originally 2x the price as the one we booked, I call that a win.

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8 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

We had that on our way to Vancouver through LAX. The LAX flight was oversold, and they asked for volunteers.  We asked if they could move us to the direct flight to Vancouver and they did that. Saved us 3 hours in travel time.  No money offered, but seeing as the direct flight was originally 2x the price as the one we booked, I call that a win.

Yes, for sure.  

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I have a feeling that fairly or not, cruise lines will be holding onto at least some of these protocols well past the point were most other businesses deem it nessesary. (Which is largely already the case) Mainly because of the unreasonable scrutiny they are held to in the media. If just one unvaccinated person gets COVID and dies and it can be traced back to a cruise ship, the torrent of negative headlines decrying how ships are death traps will be overwhelming. Until the lines feel that they are willing to weather such a storm, I don't see a blanket dropping of vax requirements. Now luckily, death rates continue to go down, so maybe that time is moving up faster than I realize, but I wouldn't count on it happening this year.

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