Discovery of the Seas

[ScubaEagle]

At the CAS meeting this week while on the Radiance in Alaska, our Captain Merrek, said a new ship and class similar in size to the Radiance is being planned in the next 3 or 4 years.  The name of the ship is to be the Discovery of the Seas.

Does nybody have any further information  or confirmation?

[Mike.s]

Woud be lovely if it were to happen, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Chili]

A captain on Ovation in Australia was talking about Discovery class .

A ship somewhere between Radiance and Voyager class in size.

[OCSC Mike]

10 hours ago, ScubaEagle said:

Does nybody have any further information  or confirmation?

I’ve only read rumors of it here or elsewhere. Some have said It may be closer to Voyager class than Radiance but I think it’s just speculation for now.

[twangster]

There have been rumors of "Project Discovery".  Royal likes to call new ship class developments a "project".  However that's all that been known.  

Considering that Vision and Radiance class are all that can use the Panama Canal, it stands to reason that Royal would look to create a new class that could.  Mega ships are great but they are a PITA when deploying ships between the Atlantic and Pacific.  They need something that can.

Without any proof or facts, I've always thought that taking the Edge class platform, the basic hull design, not an Edge class ship and painting a Royal name on it, they could leverage a successful hull design and save that engineering cost, and by using LNG engines, build on that hull design to create a new class for Royal.  

  

[baltodave]

We can only hope.  In addition to the Panama Canal, the larger "mega" ships can't access the Baltimore port in North America nor Montenegro in Europe (just 2 examples). 

[Chili]

2 hours ago, twangster said:

There have been rumors of "Project Discovery".  Royal likes to call new ship class developments a "project".  However that's all that been known.  

Considering that Vision and Radiance class are all that can use the Panama Canal, it stands to reason that Royal would look to create a new class that could.  Mega ships are great but they are a PITA when deploying ships between the Atlantic and Pacific.  They need something that can.

Without any proof or facts, I've always thought that taking the Edge class platform, the basic hull design, not an Edge class ship and painting a Royal name on it, they could leverage a successful hull design and save that engineering cost, and by using LNG engines, build on that hull design to create a new class for Royal.  

  

We are getting Celebrity Edge down here around Christmas and on to Alaska.
Its coming through the Suez Canal from Europe.

Can the edge class use the Panama Canal?

[smokeybandit]

If it was in the next 3 or 4 years, they'd already have contracts for its construction.

Maybe the class itself will be announced in 3-4 years, with like a 2030 debut.  

[twangster]

4 hours ago, Chili said:

We are getting Celebrity Edge down here around Christmas and on to Alaska.
Its coming through the Suez Canal from Europe.

Can the edge class use the Panama Canal?

Already has.  

[twangster]

On 5/25/2023 at 6:49 AM, baltodave said:

We can only hope.  In addition to the Panama Canal, the larger "mega" ships can't access the Baltimore port in North America nor Montenegro in Europe (just 2 examples). 

I wouldn't hold my breath hoping a new ship class will be able to squeeze under those low bridges.  Same issue with Tampa.  

[wstephensi]

Getting close to time to replace the Vision Class.  I was wondering if Royal might roll out a smaller ship for that purpose.

[twangster]

22 hours ago, wstephensi said:

Getting close to time to replace the Vision Class.  I was wondering if Royal might roll out a smaller ship for that purpose.

Once they go, I'm not expecting to ever see ships this small again in the Royal Caribbean fleet.

They exist today because at one time that was as big as cruise ships could be. 

[instaGator]

On 5/26/2023 at 11:43 AM, twangster said:

I wouldn't hold my breath hoping a new ship class will be able to squeeze under those low bridges.  Same issue with Tampa.  

While I also do not advocate holding your breath, it is important to note that in 2023 Royal will depart 116 cruises from Tampa on Radiance and Vision Class ships.  And while these cruises are not nearly as profitable as Oasis Class sailings, they still make money and provide additional exposure with the “new to cruise” segment.  It is difficult to imagine that Royal will completely give up on the Tampa market once the last Radiance Class ship goes to the scrap yard.

[Rackham]

15 minutes ago, instaGator said:

While I also do not advocate holding your breath, it is important to note that in 2023 Royal will depart 116 cruises from Tampa on Radiance and Vision Class ships.  And while these cruises are not nearly as profitable as Oasis Class sailings, they still make money and provide additional exposure with the “new to cruise” segment.  It is difficult to imagine that Royal will completely give up on the Tampa market once the last Radiance Class ship goes to the scrap yard.

I'm somewhat of a split opinion on this. On one hand, yes, Royal is making money in the Tampa market. On the other hand, the ships Royal is porting there are basically paid for (and then some) at this point and so Royal needs to port them somewhere unless they're being sold off. Before the pandemic, Royal was going to start the process of selling off, or transferring, the Vision-class out of its fleet [https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/2019/10/16/grandeur-of-the-seas-leave-royal-caribbean-fleet]. Leaving Tampa means potential RCL cruisers driving over to Cape Canaveral, the nearest Royal port, which is less than 3 hours away. I doubt a three-hour drive will deter someone from cruising with Royal if they're wanting to.

[steverk]

2 hours ago, instaGator said:

While I also do not advocate holding your breath, it is important to note that in 2023 Royal will depart 116 cruises from Tampa on Radiance and Vision Class ships.  And while these cruises are not nearly as profitable as Oasis Class sailings, they still make money and provide additional exposure with the “new to cruise” segment.  It is difficult to imagine that Royal will completely give up on the Tampa market once the last Radiance Class ship goes to the scrap yard.

I wouldn't presume to know what Royal Caribbean is planning to do about ports like Tampa and Baltimore.  If you zoom out from Royal Caribbean International to Royal Caribbean group, there are just too many possibilities.  Here are some that I can think of off the top of my head.

1. Build a new class of RCI ship that can service these ports.   
2. Stop servicing these smaller ports entirely.
3. Give these ports over to one of RCGs other lines like Celebrity or maybe introduce Marella to the United States at these ports.

The real question is how many small ports does RCG want to support? There's more than just Tampa and Baltimore.  For example, what about New Orleans? Or Northern Europe? Panama Canal?

Once that question is answered, the next one is "how does RCG choose to do it?"  As you can see, there's more than one way to skin that cat.

What I've heard about Discovery project is that it will be neo-panamax.  That means about the size of an RCI Voyager class or a Celebrity Edge class. I'm no expert on ports, but I believe that would be too large for Baltimore, Tampa and dicey for New Orleans.  It would definitely work for Panama, Northern Europe. and Alaska.

[smokeybandit]

Are there any small struggling cruise lines with relatively new ships in that size range that wouldn't mind being acquired?

[Vancity Cruiser]

3 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

Are there any small struggling cruise lines with relatively new ships in that size range that wouldn't mind being acquired?

Margaritaville at sea? 

[smokeybandit]

27 minutes ago, Vancity Cruiser said:

Margaritaville at sea? 

Those ships are older than the oldest RC ship. Older than the since-departed Majesty of the Seas, too.

[twangster]

18 hours ago, instaGator said:

While I also do not advocate holding your breath, it is important to note that in 2023 Royal will depart 116 cruises from Tampa on Radiance and Vision Class ships.  And while these cruises are not nearly as profitable as Oasis Class sailings, they still make money and provide additional exposure with the “new to cruise” segment.  It is difficult to imagine that Royal will completely give up on the Tampa market once the last Radiance Class ship goes to the scrap yard.

There has long been talk of building a new terminal outside the bridge near Tampa.  If that happens or not is up to local officials.  

If area officials decide not to open a more ship friendly location It's equally difficult to imagine Royal would intentionally build a small ship just to service Tampa when there is another cruise port within a two hour drive.  Norfolk is a logical alternative to Baltimore albeit a bit longer drive for some people while possibly closer for others.

Locals complaining they have to drive several hours instead of 30 minutes is hardly a strong factor in the equation.  Royal tends to place their ships where they most the most revenue and it's not uncommon for Tampa to be without a Royal ship some months.

No mass market cruise line is building ships small enough to be able to use Tampa or Baltimore.  Not Carnival.  Not Princess.  Not MSC.  Not NCL.  Not Celebrity.  Not even boutique lines are building small ships.  Not Virgin.  Not Disney.  One could argue that Disney would be better suited to leverage Tampa yet they made the decision to use the East coast sometime ago and they haven't looked back.   Why did Disney expand to South Florida and not Tampa?

There are other cruise ports such as Jacksonville and Charleston that have never seen a Royal ship while other cruise lines use them as home ports with their smaller ships.  Eventually that is what will happen with Baltimore and Tampa.  

[twangster]

https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/2020/07/13/four-ports-probably-wont-get-bigger-cruise-ships-the-future

Four ports that probably wont get bigger cruise ships in the future

[Thumper44]

I'm not as interested in a ship being small enough for Tampa or Baltimore as much as I'm interested in a ship short enough to do the Panama Canal.  A long, fat, Neo-Panamax ship that's just short enough to get under the Bridge of the Americas is what I'm holding out out hope for.

As for cities behind low bridges, you better build a cruise port outside of those bridges or raise the bridges (if even possible) or you'll get replaced by other cities with suitable ports in the region.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panamax#New_Panamax

[twangster]

9 minutes ago, Thumper44 said:

I'm not as interested in a ship being small enough for Tampa or Baltimore as much as I'm interested in a ship short enough to do the Panama Canal.  A long, fat, Neo-Panamax ship that's just short enough to get under the Bridge of the Americas is what I'm holding out out hope for.

As for cities behind low bridges, you better build a cruise port outside of those bridges or raise the bridges (if even possible) or you'll get replaced by other cities with suitable ports in the region.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panamax#New_Panamax

It's not the bridge that is the only limiting factor in using the canal.  Royal has a tendency to place their lifeboats so they hang outside the hull in part.  Some ships have walkways that go around the hump hanging like a shelf off the side of the ship.  These protrusions from the side profile of the ship don't allow them to use the canal even if the Bridge of the Americas was replaced.  

If you look at all the ships from all lines that use the canal you will find smooth sides to the ship far enough from the waterline that they can slide down the concrete wall of a lock chamber and not do any damage to the ship or lock.  By placing the lifeboats far out or by having walkways hanging off the ship Royal gains inside space to make the ships have larger internal volume (gross tonnage) giving them more space for venues inside the ship but the trade off is having parts of the ship or the lifeboats hanging out of the side profile.   This also limits their ability to the use Panama Canal.  

[steverk]

On 5/29/2023 at 1:17 PM, smokeybandit said:

Are there any small struggling cruise lines with relatively new ships in that size range that wouldn't mind being acquired?

RCG already owns 1/2 of Marella through it's joint venture known as TUI group.  Does that count?

Their ships are retired Royal Caribbean and Celebrity ships, so maybe not.

[Mike.s]

3 hours ago, steverk said:

RCG already owns 1/2 of Marella through it's joint venture known as TUI group.  Does that count?

Their ships are retired Royal Caribbean and Celebrity ships, so maybe not.

I thought it was only the German ships that sail under the TUI name that are a joint venture, Marella was a standalone UK brand owned by TUI.

https://www.tuigroup.com/en-en/about-us/about-tui-group/our-business/cruises

 

[Jill]

I’d love to see a ship in Jacksonville. The port is about 20 minutes from the airport. Carnival is the only line sailing from here and it’s the Elation that’s over 20 years old with a capacity of about 2,000. 

I doubt Royal would build something that small. Jax can’t handle much larger due mostly to channel depth although I’ve heard it may be deepened. 
 

 

[smokeybandit]

47 minutes ago, Jill said:

Jax can’t handle much larger due mostly to channel depth although I’ve heard it may be deepened. 

They finished a project last year to deepen the channel to 47 feet.

[twangster]

1 hour ago, Jill said:

I’d love to see a ship in Jacksonville. The port is about 20 minutes from the airport. Carnival is the only line sailing from here and it’s the Elation that’s over 20 years old with a capacity of about 2,000. 

I doubt Royal would build something that small. Jax can’t handle much larger due mostly to channel depth although I’ve heard it may be deepened. 
 

 

Jacksonville was going to move the cruise terminal several years ago.  They even acquired land but then local opposition killed it.  They said they would seek other areas to build a new cruise facility but it never happened.  

[steverk]

5 hours ago, Mike.s said:

I thought it was only the German ships that sail under the TUI name that are a joint venture, Marella was a standalone UK brand owned by TUI.

https://www.tuigroup.com/en-en/about-us/about-tui-group/our-business/cruises

 

 Royal owns 1/2 of Tui Cruises,  wouldn't that mean they own 1/2 of everything Tui owns?

[Austin]

Jax would have to build a terminal east of the Dames Point bridge otherwise will be like Tampa with only Vision or Radiance class ships.

[ApexoftheSeas]

I would love it if the discovery class had a central park or boardwalk onboard.

[twangster]

1 hour ago, ApexoftheSeas said:

I would love it if the discovery class had a central park or boardwalk onboard.

Central Park and Boardwalk exists solely because of how wide Oasis class is.   I agree they are wonderful spaces but smaller ship don't have the same volume to create spaces like Central Park or Boardwalk. 

Do you want a smaller ship or a mega ship that has space for Central Park?

Eden on Celebrity Edge class is the next best thing on a conventional non-mega ship but it's no Central Park, that's for sure.

[Rackham]

While I don't think a Boardwalk or Central Park could work aboard Discovery due to size and environmental requirements, a take on the SeaPlex with Playmakers could be included. This would provide an indoor, multipurpose active activity space for chillier sailings and inclement weather days on those itineraries Discovery-class would supposedly be doing. 

[Jjohnb]

The charm of the smaller ships is that they have that classic cruising feel.  I'd like it if the Discovery class were to have a very large centrum.  As wide as the Sovereign class and as tall or taller than the Vision/Radiance classes with windows to the sea all the way up.

Just out of curiosity, on the Vision, decks 7 and 8 in the centrum have cabins on both sides, it's looks like they originally had windows and were open.  Does anyone know when the cabins were added?  Were they added to all the Vision class ships?  Does anyone have a picture of the centrum before the cabins were added?  It must have been spectacular.

[Doug_Texas]

With a name like "Discovery" I hope it's not an Antartica expedition ship. 

[WAAAYTOOO]

1 hour ago, Doug_Texas said:

With a name like "Discovery" I hope it's not an Antartica expedition ship. 

Wow !  An Antarctic expedition ship would be awesome !

[Doug_Texas]

I've been waiting for RCL to decide they won't cede adult travel to the luxury lines or NCL Prima / Viva.  The "floating theme park" has served them well but with the aging of the population I'd love them to do an upscale smaller ship targeted at adults!

[Thumper44]

4 hours ago, Doug_Texas said:

With a name like "Discovery" I hope it's not an Antartica expedition ship. 

Maybe I'm overly optimistic, but I've always hoped that the name "Discovery" is a clue to a RC marketing scheme intended to sell us on going to smaller ports and rarer destinations, thus needing a smaller-than-mega-sized ship.  Maybe 10 or 20 years from now every port in the Caribbean will be able to handle an Oasis class sized ship, but right now the huge ships have a smaller list of ports which can handle them.

[Xaa]

13 hours ago, Doug_Texas said:

I've been waiting for RCL to decide they won't cede adult travel to the luxury lines or NCL Prima / Viva.  The "floating theme park" has served them well but with the aging of the population I'd love them to do an upscale smaller ship targeted at adults!

I'm not sure why you would single out Viva and Prima as an adult option vs the rest of the NCL line or even RCI.  I don't see them that way.

RCI makes no bones about their positioning as a family cruise line.  That is what you should expect for the most part I think.  They have Celebrity for the experience you seem to be looking for.  

[J_Keeble]

19 hours ago, Jjohnb said:

The charm of the smaller ships is that they have that classic cruising feel.  I'd like it if the Discovery class were to have a very large centrum.  As wide as the Sovereign class and as tall or taller than the Vision/Radiance classes with windows to the sea all the way up.

Just out of curiosity, on the Vision, decks 7 and 8 in the centrum have cabins on both sides, it's looks like they originally had windows and were open.  Does anyone know when the cabins were added?  Were they added to all the Vision class ships?  Does anyone have a picture of the centrum before the cabins were added?  It must have been spectacular.

they did add cabins either side, i've stayed in them and theyre actually a really good option!

[Plumlee2028]

16 hours ago, Doug_Texas said:

I've been waiting for RCL to decide they won't cede adult travel to the luxury lines or NCL Prima / Viva.  The "floating theme park" has served them well but with the aging of the population I'd love them to do an upscale smaller ship targeted at adults!

NCL is not actively targeting the Royal Caribbean demographic, they view Viva and Prima as Celebrity competitors. Even their recent discussions on deployment strategies: Royal is heavier in the 7 days or less and NCL is targeting more longer journeys.  There are exceptions to each brand, but that's the general trend.

 Royal Caribbean is much more defined as family travel and multi-generational family travel these days.  That is how they positioned the brand. They own an 2 upscale brands targeted towards adults, celebrity and silversea. They've worked hard to differentiate the brands over the past decade, so that each brand can play to its strengths.