Plumlee2028

Norwegian takes a very different approach to a "similar market." They want Prima to be more similar to Celebrity, and have pretty regularly said so. They believe their brands should be top quality in their larger market segments. Norwegian's hope is that they won't be in the same price point as Royal, they hope to be higher. Another note is that Prima is not that much smaller than their largest ships. Breakaway Plus class ships are around 165,000 tons, or about the same as a Quantum Class ship. They want smaller ships, because in their view they have to discount too much to fill larger ships. Their entire holding company is about the same size as Royal Caribbean International, so a different strategy should be used. Part of the calculus Royal has to make is when they have a position in a ship yard, what is the best way to do it. If it is a 140,000 ton ship to build, recently, they have made the choice to assign that to Celebrity, believing that ship will make more money than a 140,000 ton ship from their other brands. At some point, some of Celebrities Millennium Class ships, built at the same time as Radiance Class, will have to be replaced too in some form or fashion. For Royal I look at it this way, for the first time they chose to take a ship on a world cruise. Maybe that's a financial gold mine, or maybe they just didn't have enough of their standard sailings for that size to use it. This year in Galveston, small Grandeur of the seas sailed short sailings in the summer. Next year it is back to a voyager class ship. That maybe, was another case of one of these ships not fitting in their mold, but needing to sail somewhere. Royal also avoids the Carnival habit of having smaller ships sailing from more smaller ports (Mobile, Jacksonville, New Orleans (year round on Carnival), Charleston (for now), Norfolk. Celebrity on the other hand, is taking their smaller ships back to Asia, year round mediterranean and pushing what they historically have done...

One of the biggest impacts on where Utopia will go is still LNG availability on a regular basis. Carnival and Royal Caribbean groups had to build up the network for that in North America and Europe. I am not sure about it in china. My wild guess would be when China comes back it gets Spectrum back and they'll eventually send Wonder that way.

I loved my Celebrity sailings and really enjoyed my sailing on Discovery Princess a couple months ago. The ship was full and the service didn't suffer. One of the best parts was with a drink package, you can get drinks delivered to your room, which enhances a premium feel. The room doesn't feel quite as upscale as Celebrity in a normal balcony, but it is close enough. Ive been either Royal Caribbean or Celebrity for years, but I will certainly look at Princess every time now. I always get wifi, Drinks, etc, so Celebrity and Princess are appealing with Royal Charging $100 a day for those with tips included. I am particularly looking forward to the new Sun Princess.

I was able to just now buy the excursion in the App, which was an improvement from this morning. Cruise planner is down for maintenance.

Mine won't let me buy anything, keeps having payment processing issues. Multiple cards, different devices, etc.

Icon started at 200,000 tons and ended up at 251000 tons. If they want something between radiance and voyager, they are going to have to start with a yacht. I think ships like the Radiance class can last longer than historically ships did, because they are still relatively modern in design. A large amount of balconies and good space for various venues that can change all the time. Seems like previous generations of ships are much more behind the times when they hit 20 than the radiance class are, so Radiance class is well positioned for upgrades over time (upgrades, not full amplifications). Of course there are maritime considerations (extra dry docks etc). Another thing, ship yard positions are valuable assets. It is not easy to justify going smaller, unless you have a major brand repositioning. Norwegian went (slightly) smaller with their new ships, but they are trying to position their brand more high end. Royal is doing a great job making their ships modern and nicer in some ways, but they are not repositioning the brand really. If they are going to dedicate a building slot they acquire in a ship yard to a smaller ship, at least for a long time it is going to probably go to Celebrity or Silversea where a ship that size will make more money than in the Royal Caribbean brand, in my opinion.

I can't ever quite figure out MSC. They always give me the impression they are interested primarily in the announcements or "splashes" they make. I think they realized pretty quickly they overshot with this terminal or they really want two large ships but dont want to stagger their days.

Celebrity comes to mind as a help to fill slots. I sailed Summit out of Terminal G earlier this year. While I think they will prioritize use of their Terminal 25 in Port Everglades, I can see cases (especially in Winter) where the Ascent/Apex/Beyond/Edge have two out of Port Everglades, 1 out of Miami on the weekends and some of the short cruise market (4/5 nights for Celebrity) staying out of Miami as well. The group is promising big increases in passengers with this so they will need to use those 2 and a half terminals heavily. MSC's terminal (the berth 10) will be big, it is built for their World Class ships. Fort Lauderdale plays an interesting role here in my opinion. I am not sure how long Royal Caribbean's previous deal with them ran from when they built up the current terminal and Celebrity's deal to build terminal 25 in Miami. Carnival has expressed desire to grow their with their Holland America and Princess brands and may see a fit to use it more for Carnival as well. Lastly, it may be possible we see Miami get an Oasis class ship for 3/4 night sailings similar to Port Canaveral. In that case you would have a Large (Oasis/Icon) ship sailing from Miami on Friday and Monday and likely 2 or 3 total of them on the weekend.

I have a January cruise with similar case. Until about 2 weeks ago, it had 2 excursions for one port (Roatan) and that's it. That has now gone to about 20 or so. Cozumel had 1 until this morning, now it has about 8, and I suspect will still increase. Still nothing for Costa Maya, so I think some these are just slow right now.

My Princess cruise last month the drinks were in the $10 range for what is typically $13-14 on Royal. Beers all seemed around $1-2 cheaper as well. I had a beverage package on there, so I wasn't looking tooo close, but they did seem generally cheaper. Royal is getting the pricing, so power to them. I just bought the drink package this weekend for when I go on Oasis in January. $718 for drinks and wifi for the week. It has pushed me more into the Celebrity or Princess camp though, but I think Royal is just fine if I go on Celebrity...

I think Solstice Class were built there, and they are very similar displacement size to Edge.

I always get Beverage packages and wifi, and Celebrity pricing has moved into being in the same ballpark or a little cheaper (especially when a solo room is available on Edge class). Isn't always the case, but it is worth a look each time. Royal seems to be getting strong pricing traction lately, so it brings other lines in. I went on Princess in Alaska this year (switched from Quantum when the itineraries were changing with the engine issues) and these days you get can Princess with drinks and wifi and all included for less than just the room on Royal many times. I have found it similar. I dress on both. Celebrity's descriptions doesn't use "formal" it uses "evening chic." Seems both are going towards whatever you feel nice in is fine with us. Never been on Quantum class, but there are alot of comparable. Edge is smaller (so is beyond which is stretched). Around 2500-3000 people instead of 4500. But they are still large, similar to a voyager class in size. But design elements are similar to some of Quantum class features. Edge class Solarium is very nice (I believe all Celebrity solariums are fully enclosed). There isn't tiered pools, but a nice center pool and hot tubs etc. Very relaxing place. Steps from the main pool area as well. Edge has the Club, which is a similar vibe. Usually more DJs and such over live band though, as it is a bit smaller stage area. No Pool tables sadly. Luminae on supposed to be great (I haven't tried it). I enjoyed changing restaurants on Edge class with the four dining restaurants. Similar to how Quantum was built, but Celebrity kept the change in place and still has four distinct themes. On Edge, to replace 270, there is Eden. Eden is really cool with the plant and jungle feel (but not tacky). If you go to the very back of Eden, there is a ton of seating space with massive windows overlooking the back of the ship. There is also the Eden Cafe right there, with sandwiches etc available. Quantum and Edge have some similar spaces, but are sized pretty different. Quantum is around 160000-165000, with something like 4500 passengers. Edge is around 129000 tons with around 2500-3000 people. Edge class is built at Chantiers in France, Quantum class from Meyer Werft in Germany. That said, Millennium Class and Radiance class are very similar sized and likely have a lot of the same platform underneath the passenger facing areas.

If things open up, I think they may still send Wonder to China. I would guess Utopia would probably be in Orlando, Miami, or Galveston where there will be good LNG infrastructure already. Icon class and Utopia can do alot of the Winter Caribbean, Mediterranean Summer down the road. In about 6 years, they will have 9 ships Oasis Class or bigger. I agree with the above, I think Utopia will heavily resemble Wonder. That gives three sets of 2 in the class. Wonder's decor and Icons in the non-suite rooms seem similar with some smaller tweaks.

Funny, mine had two listed for Roatan and that's all as well. I figure they will all start popping up at about 90 days or so.

Oasis on Jan 15th? Thats what I am on with the same results.