Vaccination required?

[RCVoyager]

Maybe it's been talked about.  I looked back a couple of pages and found related topics, but not one that asked the question:

 

Is it likely the vaccination will be required in order to board a cruise ship on any line or to and from any country?

[JimnKathy]

I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes a thing similar to a "golden ticket" to ease one's way as we move about.

I plan on getting a vaccination when it becomes available just to reduce the risk of getting COVID (I'm 59 in a few weeks). I also get a regular flu shot every year (going on three decades) and I rarely deal with getting sick for more than a day or two a year from anything other than a normal cold and/or allergy symptoms.

[JLMoran]

Qantas (due to the Australian Government, per comment from @mattymay) is already going to be requiring proof of Covid-19 vaccination before allowing passengers to board. If the Australian government is going to be requiring proof of vaccination for international travel, you can bet the CDC will try to put a similar policy in place.

In this case, I wouldn't actually classify that kind of action as an overreach -- they are the Center for Disease Control and Prevention (wish they'd change their acronym to CDCP so people don't forget that last part), so requiring proof of vaccination for Covid-19 would be no different than if they required proof of vaccination for Polio or Measles (not sure if that's a thing today).

Just for context, even before Covid-19 was a thing, governments had vaccination requirements for tourists and others looking to enter their countries; when my daughter traveled to Ghana in 2019 for a summer study program, she had to show proof of Yellow Fever vaccination as part of her visa application under Ghanaian law.

[Matt]

To be clear, there's been no hint or talk by anyone in RC of a vaccine being needed, so it's purely speculation right now if it would become a policy later.

[RCVoyager]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

To be clear, there's been no hint or talk by anyone in RC of a vaccine being needed, so it's purely speculation right now if it would become a policy later.

Thanks Matt.  I didn't think the requirement had been issued, but I wanted to see what thoughts were.  I have in-laws who are anti vaccers (SP?) but absoutely love cruising.  They have invited us on a cruise with them, and I think there is a chance they will have to make that choice before we can go.

[dawnelda]

I read somewhere that kids won't be able to be vaccinated at first because the trials were all on adults so the dosage/administration to children is unknown at this point. This means that if the vaccine is required before cruising then kids wouldn't be able to cruise for a while yet.

Anyone have thoughts/insight on this?

[JLMoran]

54 minutes ago, dawnelda said:

I read somewhere that kids won't be able to be vaccinated at first because the trials were all on adults so the dosage/administration to children is unknown at this point. This means that if the vaccine is required before cruising then kids wouldn't be able to cruise for a while yet.

Anyone have thoughts/insight on this?

This is correct. All the trials to date were on adults 18 and over, and children haven't yet had their own trial. There's a similar gap for pregnant women, who obviously weren't allowed in the initial trials because of potential risks to the unborn child.

What I heard in an interview with Dr. Fauci a week or two back is that they expect to have a rather fast study on children starting around March. It will be faster than the adult trials, because they already have the baseline on effective adult dosage and work backward from there for age-appropriate doses to give children in various age groups.

[Joe01]

I don't feel that this would be fair because some age groups and professions are being prioritised. Being in the 18-34 age demographic and not having underlying conditions, I wouldn't be front of the queue for the vaccine and don't expect to be for quite some time so the idea that I shouldn't be allowed to access services for not being vaccinated is purely age discrimination IMO.

[RCVoyager]

31 minutes ago, Joe01 said:

I don't feel that this would be fair because some age groups and professions are being prioritised. Being in the 18-34 age demographic and not having underlying conditions, I wouldn't be front of the queue for the vaccine and don't expect to be for quite some time so the idea that I shouldn't be allowed to access services for not being vaccinated is purely age discrimination IMO.

When you consider that cruises won't be starting until the 2nd quarter of next year in all likelihood, the vaccine should be widely available.  If the cruise lines want to keep Covid out of the ships, or if the CDC wants to keep it out of the ships, this makes sense.  As someone mentioned above, maybe the flu shot too.

[Ray]

29 minutes ago, Joe01 said:

I don't feel that this would be fair because some age groups and professions are being prioritised.

No one can argue with doctors and Nurses being given the vaccine before others!

33 minutes ago, Joe01 said:

 Being in the 18-34 age demographic and not having underlying conditions, I wouldn't be front of the queue for the vaccine and don't expect to be for quite some time 

they hope to have everyone vaccinated by easter so its not that far away

With regards how they are rolling out vaccine, you cannot expect them to get that right when they have made a complete mess of everything else 

 

 

[Ray]

5 hours ago, JLMoran said:

Qantas (due to the Australian Government, per comment from @mattymay) is already going to be requiring proof of Covid-19 vaccination before allowing passengers to board. 

How times have changed! Used to be the only thing you needed to get into Oz was a criminal Record  

 

[Joe01]

1 hour ago, RCVoyager said:

When you consider that cruises won't be starting until the 2nd quarter of next year in all likelihood, the vaccine should be widely available.  If the cruise lines want to keep Covid out of the ships, or if the CDC wants to keep it out of the ships, this makes sense.  As someone mentioned above, maybe the flu shot too.

If they require the flu shot, then I'm out of cruising for the foreseeable future. Never had one in my life and I don't believe that it's even for free on the NHS for people of my age group. They've never required it before, why now?

[JLMoran]

Actually, it looks like at least some lines already have some blanket statements in place regarding vaccinations in general, not just for Covid-19. I had to put down a refundable deposit on that Princess cruise I'm considering for '22, and when I went to the "Manage My Reservation" section of the site, I saw this as part of an overall heads-up alert (emphasis added):

Quote

Travel Document, Visa And Vaccination Disclaimer

This information is provided as general guidance. Because governmental and medical vaccination requirements and recommendations change periodically you must check with your travel advisor, government authorities for the countries you will visit and/or medical professionals to determine or verify the actual requirements and recommendations at the time of sailing. Princess assumes no liability for the passenger's failure to do so. Failure to present required travel documents, visas or vaccination certificates at cruise check-in will result in denial of boarding without refund of the cruise or cruisetour fare.

So if Australia's government is requiring travelers to be vaccinated against Covid-19, all Princess sailings out of Australia (whenever they resume) will automatically require valid proof (I assume from your doctor or pharmacy, showing things like the vaccine lot number). If any of the governments of Spain, France, Italy, or Greece decide that travelers need to present proof, then I'll be on the hook for that with this Med sailing.

If Princess has this very generic verbiage on their site, you can bet the other lines have the same kind of policy; it's clearly just a cover-their-butts thing for whatever countries they sail to (say, if they did an African itinerary that visited Ghana where they have that Yellow Fever vaccination requirement). But it does mean that proof will be required for sailing to all countries where the government has declared it mandatory.

[twangster]

I wonder if that has always been in the Princess contract.  Beyond the countries in pacts such as the WHTI, vaccinations for international travel is commonplace.

[MuttMutt]

The thing is there will also be people who are unable to have certain vaccines. Now those people also will often be immune compromised and shouldn't be sailing during high incidents of sickness anyway but there will have to be some small loopholes for certain things but I'm guessing the main point is to get past the herd immunity threshold. Once comfortably beyond that point those who are unable to be vaccinated will be at minimal risk. 

I just have my doubts about the one that had to be stored at such low temperatures and the odds that multiple people will mess something up giving people a false sense of security. Hopefully it will be well proven that people won't mess up and it will be done correctly or that there will be a choice on which vaccine you receive when multiple are available. 

[Ray]

2 hours ago, Joe01 said:

 They've never required it before, why now?

100% Agree given the fact the Flu vaccine people get every year is a lucky dip! 

No one knows what strain of flu is coming each year, the vaccine may work but then again it may not! so what is the point of asking people to get flu vaccine if its not the one needed for that years flu virus? 

[mattymay]

3 hours ago, Ray said:

How times have changed! Used to be the only thing you needed to get into Oz was a criminal Record  

 

Surprised the British Empire aren't sending their COVID patients here. I hear there are a few unused ships around at the moment.

[Ray]

45 minutes ago, mattymay said:

Surprised the British Empire aren't sending their COVID patients here. I hear there are a few unused ships around at the moment.

Last thing you want is any brits turning up down under right now! We couldnt organise a p!ss up in a brewery never mind how to tackle a virus outbreak! 

 

[Jill]

Considering that over 40% refuse to take the vaccine, that’s a big chunk of the population the cruise lines can’t really afford to disenfranchise. It’ll be interesting for sure to see what happens. 
 

For me personally, my immune system has already “attacked” me twice. First was Graves Disease in which my immune system destroyed my thyroid. 
 

4 years ago I had a grade 4 severe reaction to a cancer immunotherapy that almost killed me. My immune system went out of control and attacked all my muscles resulting in severe muscle wasting. 
 

I don’t want to inject ANYTHING that might stimulate my immune system. 
 

My days of cruising may be over if it’s mandated. I’m not willing to risk any more immune related adverse events. 

[Traveler]

Already today there are countries that ask you to get vaccine before you can enter. For example , if you traveled to Brazil and you want to enter India  after (and not just India) they can ask you to show proof that you got yellow fever vaccine otherwise they can ask you to be quarantine.

[Atlantix2000]

20 hours ago, Ray said:

100% Agree given the fact the Flu vaccine people get every year is a lucky dip! 

No one knows what strain of flu is coming each year, the vaccine may work but then again it may not! so what is the point of asking people to get flu vaccine if its not the one needed for that years flu virus? 

I believe the flu vaccine is also regionally localized (Asia vs N America vs Europe, etc) so they'd need to be a bit more specific.  Having the US flu vaccine for the year is supposed to provide protection against the strains expect in the US.  That's not going to be relevant if you're traveling to Australia.  In general, I don't think flu vaccines will be required for international travel.  I can see temporary Covid vaccine requirements until the spread is well contained world wide.  It will get people more willing to travel if they can feel safer in a plane.  For other diseases, you definitely want to do some research.  Even when shots aren't required, there are recommendations for vaccines when you travel to other parts of the world.  We don't get every vaccine available, just the ones for diseases we are likely to encounter.

[Ray]

1 hour ago, Atlantix2000 said:

  For other diseases, you definitely want to do some research.  Even when shots aren't required, there are recommendations for vaccines when you travel to other parts of the world.  

I check the uk directgov website for details for anywhere i visit, not just for vaccines its full of other info such as visa requirements etc 

[jticarruthers]

17 hours ago, Atlantix2000 said:

I can see temporary Covid vaccine requirements until the spread is well contained world wide.  It will get people more willing to travel if they can feel safer in a plane.  

This I find interesting .. so if you have had the vaccine you are now "safe" so how does whether or not someone else on the plane potentially being unvaccinated affect your safety ... I actually hadn't thought of this but when discussing the likelihood of cruises requiring all passengers to be vaccinated got challenged on it.

If the crew is vaccinated (condition of employment, presumably) and all those passengers that are concerned about it are vaccinated, why would it matter if an unvaccinated passenger wanted to cruise ... 

I think there is a slight risk of the unvaccinated passenger getting sick and then managing to infect a person or two ... but in the grand scheme of life is that a big enough risk to make it a requirement for all passengers?

Not arguing, just relaying a question that I didnt have a confident answer to.

[Traveler]

12 minutes ago, jticarruthers said:

This I find interesting .. so if you have had the vaccine you are now "safe" so how does whether or not someone else on the plane potentially being unvaccinated affect your safety ... I actually hadn't thought of this but when discussing the likelihood of cruises requiring all passengers to be vaccinated got challenged on it.

If the crew is vaccinated (condition of employment, presumably) and all those passengers that are concerned about it are vaccinated, why would it matter if an unvaccinated passenger wanted to cruise ... 

I think there is a slight risk of the unvaccinated passenger getting sick and then managing to infect a person or two ... but in the grand scheme of life is that a big enough risk to make it a requirement for all passengers?

Not arguing, just relaying a question that I didnt have a confident answer to.

Very simple , 

if the vaccine is 95% effective and we have 8000 people on Oasis Ship it means 400 people may be under risk of being infected ...  

Now the questions will be , lets say its not a big number that one person did not took the vaccine , are you suggesting the cruise ships will have quota on each cruise for people with out vaccine ? if yes what are the numbers ? how you defined who is allowed and who is not ?

[jticarruthers]

No i was asking if those 400 knowingly sail without a vaccine does that impact the 7600 significantly ?

[CruiseGus]

On 12/5/2020 at 1:49 PM, Ray said:

How times have changed! Used to be the only thing you needed to get into Oz was a criminal Record  

 

one hundred fifty (150) years ago long before airplanes and cruise ships

[Ray]

7 minutes ago, CruiseGus said:

one hundred fifty (150) years ago long before airplanes and cruise ships

Was actually January 1788 when the first ship landed at Botany Bay Due to the Cold weather here in Scotland i have always held a grudge against the judge who let my Great Great Great Great Great grandfather off with a suspended sentence  

[CruiseGus]

1 hour ago, jticarruthers said:

No i was asking if those 400 knowingly sail without a vaccine does that impact the 7600 significantly ?

the real question is if 1 person sails without the vaccine and infected, how does it affect the 400 that are outside the efficacy rate.

Personally I don't think I will want to cruise if they haven't mandated vaccinations (Children under 18 exempt) after approx mid 2021 when it will be available to all adults

[CruiseGus]

7 minutes ago, Ray said:

Was actually January 1788 when the first ship landed at Botany Bay Due to the Cold weather here in Scotland i have always held a grudge against the judge who let my Great Great Great Great Great grandfather off with a suspended sentence  

yes and the practice ended in 1868, in the US even when i was young judges often told young offender that if they enlisted they would dismiss their case, another practice unheard of

[Ray]

18 minutes ago, CruiseGus said:

in the US even when i was young judges often told young offender that if they enlisted they would dismiss their case

Bill Murray ....Stripes  

[Traveler]

1 hour ago, jticarruthers said:

No i was asking if those 400 knowingly sail without a vaccine does that impact the 7600 significantly ?

Yes they are as the vaccine is not 100% so you actually have now 10% risk comparing to less than 5%

[twangster]

Do we know yet if the vaccines prevent one from spreading the virus even if it doesn't take hold in their own system?

I imagine a vaccine will greatly reduce (but perhaps not eliminate) one from being a carrier that could spread the virus to someone else but to what extent?

[Yo2slick]

Do cruise ships require you to have all your vaccinations before boarding???  This entire situation is out of hand.

[steverk]

I question if the cruise lines would voluntarily require the COVID vaccine, but I'm pretty confident that the CDC will require it to board a ship and the cruise lines will have no choice but to go along with it.

I hope the vaccine drops the cases to "0" by 3Q21 so we can do away with it quickly.

[KWofPerth]

8 hours ago, jticarruthers said:

This I find interesting .. so if you have had the vaccine you are now "safe" so how does whether or not someone else on the plane potentially being unvaccinated affect your safety ... I actually hadn't thought of this but when discussing the likelihood of cruises requiring all passengers to be vaccinated got challenged on it.

If the crew is vaccinated (condition of employment, presumably) and all those passengers that are concerned about it are vaccinated, why would it matter if an unvaccinated passenger wanted to cruise ... 

I think there is a slight risk of the unvaccinated passenger getting sick and then managing to infect a person or two ... but in the grand scheme of life is that a big enough risk to make it a requirement for all passengers?

Not arguing, just relaying a question that I didnt have a confident answer to.

Vaccines are not foolproof. Even a 95% efficacy gives an individual a 5% chance of still catching something. 

So the more people that are vaccinated, the less chance of spreading something around. This is where the concept of herd immunity truly kicks in.

[Jill]

3 hours ago, steverk said:

I question if the cruise lines would voluntarily require the COVID vaccine, but I'm pretty confident that the CDC will require it to board a ship and the cruise lines will have no choice but to go along with it.

I hope the vaccine drops the cases to "0" by 3Q21 so we can do away with it quickly.

This is why I’m considering turning my 125% FCC back to a 100% refund. I’ve got 3 booked and will not take the vaccine. Guess I better hurry up and decide. 

[karl_nj]

I think it's likely that all international travel will require proof of vaccination, once the vaccine is widely available.  I don't think this will be anything specific to cruise travel, other than the fact that, in most cases, cruise travel involves foreign ports.

Those who have legitimate medical reasons for not being vaccinated will likely be able to get an exception.  

Everyone else will likely need to stick to domestic travel, at least in the near term.

[KWofPerth]

40 minutes ago, karl_nj said:

I think it's likely that all international travel will require proof of vaccination, once the vaccine is widely available.  I don't think this will be anything specific to cruise travel, other than the fact that, in most cases, cruise travel involves foreign ports.

Those who have legitimate medical reasons for not being vaccinated will likely be able to get an exception.  

Everyone else will likely need to stick to domestic travel, at least in the near term.

This is a near certainty. It will have a similar impact on the virus to closing the borders, whilst allowing international travel. Win-win.

[CruiseGus]

17 hours ago, KWofPerth said:

This is a near certainty. It will have a similar impact on the virus to closing the borders, whilst allowing international travel. Win-win.

agreed now we just need the vaccine widely avalible