TXcruzer Posted April 2, 2021 Report Share Posted April 2, 2021 47 minutes ago, RyanS said: Excited for this announcement! As it relates to cruising, there is no reason to be excited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep1 Posted April 3, 2021 Report Share Posted April 3, 2021 I'm more confused than ever... I don't drink but am ready to take a ball peen hammer to my temple to reduce the anxiety this whole thing is producing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted April 3, 2021 Report Share Posted April 3, 2021 14 hours ago, deep1 said: I'm more confused than ever... I don't drink but am ready to take a ball peen hammer to my temple to reduce the anxiety this whole thing is producing... This is the effect that CDC was hoping for. It seems they have succeeded. They are saving you. You can thank them later. jticarruthers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeybandit Posted April 3, 2021 Report Share Posted April 3, 2021 21 hours ago, TXcruzer said: As it relates to cruising, there is no reason to be excited. In fact there's more reason to be concerned than ever that cruising is lost for the summer. TXcruzer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep1 Posted April 3, 2021 Report Share Posted April 3, 2021 2 hours ago, twangster said: This is the effect that CDC was hoping for. It seems they have succeeded. They are saving you. You can thank them later. I'm getting ready to thank Rochelle Walensky in very clear English when I get back from the Bahamas and Keys next week. twangster 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep1 Posted April 3, 2021 Report Share Posted April 3, 2021 2 hours ago, twangster said: This is the effect that CDC was hoping for. It seems they have succeeded. They are saving you. You can thank them later. Just sent a little love her way on Facebook... Its important to note that even as mad as we are communications need to remain respectful and to the point. In presenting our case I would think the largest impact it may have on them is that the industry supports what amounts to a number of people equal in population to the CDC's home Atlanta... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeybandit Posted April 6, 2021 Report Share Posted April 6, 2021 Governors of MD, VA, AK, LA, HI and PR are all calling on the CDC to open up. https://www.winnmediaskn.com/governors-of-five-states-and-puerto-rico-sign-on-to-bryans-letter-to-cdc-calling-for-the-easing-of-cruise-travel-restrictions/ Then there's this article which I don't have access to read, but I'd be real curious if the headline was accurate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 6, 2021 Report Share Posted April 6, 2021 36 minutes ago, smokeybandit said: Then there's this article which I don't have access to read, but I'd be real curious if the headline was accurate I paid the paywall (it's a business expense for me) and here's the jist Director of the maritime division at the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Martin Cetron was interviewed. “In an ideal setting where we don’t have an overwhelming fourth wave of variants that are unresponsive to our mitigation strategies, that if all things go well as planned...I think with following the guidance we laid out we can all probably get to a place of partial resumption of sailing in July.” teddy, smokeybandit and SpeedNoodles 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeybandit Posted April 6, 2021 Report Share Posted April 6, 2021 Well that's promising. The guy seems to be someone whose opinion should be listened to: Director, Division of Global Migration and Quarantine Martin Cetron, MD, is the Director for the Division of Global Migration and Quarantine (DGMQ) at the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). Dr. Cetron holds faculty appointments in the Division of Infectious Disease at the Emory University School of Medicine and the Department of Epidemiology at Rollins School of Public Health. He received his B.A. from Dartmouth College in 1981 and his M.D. from Tufts University in 1985. He trained in Internal Medicine at the University of Virginia and Infectious Diseases at the University of Washington before joining the CDC’s Epidemic Intelligence Service and becoming a Commissioned Officer in the U.S. Public Health Service (PHS) in 1992. His primary research interests are global health and migration with a focus on emerging infections, tropical diseases, and vaccine-preventable diseases in mobile populations. Dr. Cetron has co-authored more than 100 publications. Dr. Cetron has also been a leader in public health emergency preparedness and response activities at CDC and is a graduate of the Harvard School of Public Health & Kennedy School of Government’s National Preparedness Leadership Institute. For over 20 years, he has conducted epidemiologic research globally, developed global health policy and led domestic and international outbreak investigations including high profile international emergency responses to emerging infectious disease outbreaks [Anthrax bioterrorism 2001, SARS epidemic 2003, U.S. Monkeypox 2003, Hurricane Katrina/ Rita 2005, H1N1 influenza pandemic 2009, Haiti Earthquake / Cholera Responses 2010-11, Japan Tsunami-Radiation 2011, H7N9 2013, and MERS CoV 2012-3, Coronavirus Response (2013), Unaccompanied Children Central America (2014), Ebola Response (2014) & Zika Virus (2015)]. Dr. Cetron has been a consultant to several WHO Expert Committees: the US delegation intergovernmental negotiations of IHR 2005, the Pandemic Influenza and IHR Review Panel 2010, and the IHR emergency committee roster of independent experts. He also was elected in 2016 for a fellowship with IDSA (Infectious Diseases Society of America) & ASTMH (American Society of Tropical Medicine and Hygiene). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jticarruthers Posted April 6, 2021 Report Share Posted April 6, 2021 22 minutes ago, Matt said: I paid the paywall (it's a business expense for me) and here's the jist Director of the maritime division at the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Martin Cetron was interviewed. “In an ideal setting where we don’t have an overwhelming fourth wave of variants that are unresponsive to our mitigation strategies, that if all things go well as planned...I think with following the guidance we laid out we can all probably get to a place of partial resumption of sailing in July.” So ... still "no" ... SteveinSC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted April 6, 2021 Report Share Posted April 6, 2021 I think it's promising but... In an ideal world to reach the target date of July the cruise lines need to start preparing now, not in June. At what point will Chicken Little stop running around screaming the sky is falling? AlmondFarmer, 4ensic, SteveinSC and 1 other 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXcruzer Posted April 6, 2021 Report Share Posted April 6, 2021 5 hours ago, Matt said: I paid the paywall (it's a business expense for me) and here's the jist Director of the maritime division at the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Martin Cetron was interviewed. “In an ideal setting where we don’t have an overwhelming fourth wave of variants that are unresponsive to our mitigation strategies, that if all things go well as planned...I think with following the guidance we laid out we can all probably get to a place of partial resumption of sailing in July.” Didn't the cruiseline's already say the guidance put forth was un-workable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizzyBee23 Posted April 7, 2021 Report Share Posted April 7, 2021 On 4/2/2021 at 5:13 AM, Traveler said: 4. The number of people who are allowed on the ship will be calculate by the fowling simple formula length of the ship divided by the number of floors multiply by the integral of the ship stern multiply by square root of -1/2 + but no more than 10.5 including the crew. I'm just happy to see the Navier-Stokes equation on a cruise forum. Edit: and used appropriately, since as far as I know, there's still a millennium prize out there for anyone who can solve it (meaning as far as we know, it's unsolvable). Traveler and Curt From Canada 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeybandit Posted April 7, 2021 Report Share Posted April 7, 2021 9 hours ago, LizzyBee23 said: meaning as far as we know, it's unsolvable So...just like the CSO technical guidance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted April 7, 2021 Report Share Posted April 7, 2021 Port of Galveston adds their voice: https://www.portofgalveston.com/CivicAlerts.aspx?AID=166 OPEN PLEA TO THE CDC: ALLOW PHASED CRUISING NOW As CEO and port director of the fourth most popular cruise port in North America and the only cruise port in Texas, I am joining Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, the Cruise Lines International Association (CLIA), major cruise lines and many others in calling for the CDC to lift the Conditional Sailing Order (CSO) and allow safe, sustainable phased cruising to begin in July. teddy, SPS and jticarruthers 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted April 8, 2021 Report Share Posted April 8, 2021 Governor DeSantis is at the Port of Miami right now. Speaking live. https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2021/04/08/gov-ron-desantis-holds-news-conference-in-miami/ https://www.wesh.com/article/desantis-holds-press-conference-port-of-miami/36062517 jticarruthers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeybandit Posted April 8, 2021 Report Share Posted April 8, 2021 7 minutes ago, twangster said: Governor DeSantis is at the Port of Miami right now. Speaking live. https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2021/04/08/gov-ron-desantis-holds-news-conference-in-miami/ https://www.wesh.com/article/desantis-holds-press-conference-port-of-miami/36062517 Kind of big news. DeSantis is suing the CDC. Ray and jticarruthers 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted April 8, 2021 Report Share Posted April 8, 2021 6 minutes ago, smokeybandit said: Kind of big news. DeSantis is suing the CDC. About time. SebagoSue, jticarruthers and sammy79 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPS Posted April 8, 2021 Report Share Posted April 8, 2021 31 minutes ago, smokeybandit said: Kind of big news. DeSantis is suing the CDC. GOOD! The CDC needs to be called out on their double standard BS! They're still holding on to the the idea of outbreaks similar to what happened on Diamond Princess OVER A YEAR AGO and paying no mind to the FACTS that we now have testing, health checks, mitigation measures, numerous other protocols, treatments, and, oh yeah, VACCINES! jticarruthers, nhilding10, twangster and 2 others 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted April 8, 2021 Report Share Posted April 8, 2021 Now we need Texas and Alaska to join the lawsuit, or file their own. SebagoSue, Momof4crazytocruise, The Cruise Junkie and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeybandit Posted April 8, 2021 Report Share Posted April 8, 2021 I'll be curious to see the text of the actual lawsuit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhilding10 Posted April 8, 2021 Report Share Posted April 8, 2021 17 minutes ago, twangster said: Now we need Texas and Alaska to join the lawsuit, or file their own. Do you suspect now that Florida has done this, and given if this has any real strength to it, that those other states will feel inclined to join and up the pressure? I know it's pure speculation as I ask... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted April 8, 2021 Report Share Posted April 8, 2021 6 minutes ago, nhilding10 said: Do you suspect now that Florida has done this, and given if this has any real strength to it, that those other states will feel inclined to join and up the pressure? I know it's pure speculation as I ask... If the suit has proper legal merit and standing I do see other states getting involved. However I don't play an AG on TV so... Momof4crazytocruise and nhilding10 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jticarruthers Posted April 8, 2021 Report Share Posted April 8, 2021 7 minutes ago, twangster said: If the suit has proper legal merit and standing I do see other states getting involved. However I don't play an AG on TV so... Just like the statements two week ago, Florida lead they jumped on, I think if there is merit they will be signed on by end of day tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted April 8, 2021 Report Share Posted April 8, 2021 There is risk with this maneuver. If the CDC wins they'll extend the industry shutdown which very much might just kill it. However given the CDC's clear indication of refusing to work with the industry that was the likely outcome without this lawsuit. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. SPS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhilding10 Posted April 8, 2021 Report Share Posted April 8, 2021 6 minutes ago, twangster said: There is risk with this maneuver. If the CDC wins they'll extend the industry shutdown which very much might just kill it. However given the CDC's clear indication of refusing to work with the industry that was the likely outcome without this lawsuit. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. We all believe, admittedly with some of our own bias, just how biased the CDC is against the cruise industry, and just how bad these double-standards are, and how unfair they are, but I know nothing about the legal implications and the landscape this will play out on. Without knowing the proper context of the lawsuit and what it goes after; I still can't but help thinking, how in the heck could the CDC win this one? How could anyone with any sense of reasonable judgment look at that compared to other industries and what they HAVE allowed, and not rule in the cruise lines' favor? I say that with full knowledge of how ridiculous the CDC is, but I'd love to see how they argue this in a court and spin it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted April 8, 2021 Report Share Posted April 8, 2021 It will be very interesting to follow. nhilding10 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted April 8, 2021 Report Share Posted April 8, 2021 Since I am not in the US and do not have access to local TV there , did one of the cruise companies or CLIA have done any commercials describing all the work place they are adding in Miami and in the US ? Something like , when you tale a cruise you are given jobs to the local porters , the taxi drivers you take to the ports ,the hotel worker you are staying before and after , the people that works at the food providers facilities, the waiter in the restaurant and many many others . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted April 8, 2021 Report Share Posted April 8, 2021 9 minutes ago, Traveler said: Since I am not in the US and do not have access to local TV there , did one of the cruise companies or CLIA have done any commercials describing all the work place they are adding in Miami and in the US ? Something like , when you tale a cruise you are given jobs to the local porters , the taxi drivers you take to the ports ,the hotel worker you are staying before and after , the people that works at the food providers facilities, the waiter in the restaurant and many many others . The court of public opinion isn't going to sway the CDC. I'm not sure TV commercials that educate the public on industry impact would accomplish anything. CLIA is global in nature with a focus beyond the USA. You can read their annual state of the industry here. https://cruising.org/en/news-and-research/research/2020/december/state-of-the-cruise-industry-outlook-2021 Page 24 addresses world wide economic impact. I don't see them spending money that target one region. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffB Posted April 8, 2021 Report Share Posted April 8, 2021 I have no details but I will find the suit and read it. I just posted in another thread I was hoping someone would try. You have to love Desantis! Jill, jticarruthers, AlmondFarmer and 4 others 3 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wordell1 Posted April 8, 2021 Report Share Posted April 8, 2021 I doubt the suit will go anywhere but it is good PR in putting pressure on the CDC to do the right thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBRSKI Posted April 8, 2021 Report Share Posted April 8, 2021 And in my opinion, he is doing it for the state of Florida and the people who are affected by the shut down of the cruise industry. People may be quick to judge him and say it's only a political stunt but if he makes it happen many people will benefit. Jill and SebagoSue 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmondFarmer Posted April 8, 2021 Report Share Posted April 8, 2021 57 minutes ago, twangster said: Now we need Texas and Alaska to join the lawsuit, or file their own. Maybe California will contemplate convening a study to explore the idea of considering a tentative involvement in a limited commitment to a flexible proposal surrounding the concept of engaging in preliminary discussions with the CDC. I will provide an update on this in 6 months. Momof4crazytocruise, Vanessa77, RWDW1204 and 6 others 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPS Posted April 8, 2021 Report Share Posted April 8, 2021 21 minutes ago, AlmondFarmer said: Maybe California will contemplate convening a study to explore the idea of considering a tentative involvement in a limited commitment to a flexible proposal surrounding the concept of engaging in preliminary discussions with the CDC. emmef 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted April 8, 2021 Report Share Posted April 8, 2021 26 minutes ago, RBRSKI said: And in my opinion, he is doing it for the state of Florida and the people who are affected by the shut down of the cruise industry. People may be quick to judge him and say it's only a political stunt but if he makes it happen many people will benefit. A stunt is saying you are looking into a lawsuit. Filing an actual lawsuit rises above "stunt". RBRSKI, JeffB, AlmondFarmer and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunkelBierJay Posted April 8, 2021 Report Share Posted April 8, 2021 I've liked DeSantis because he throws it back in the face of the press when they take things out of context...I like him even more for suing the CDC...if any Floridians want to send him to TN so you can take our loser governor, I am into that. SteveinSC, twangster, Hince57 and 3 others 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Posted April 8, 2021 Report Share Posted April 8, 2021 I’m generally not a big fan of the Gov of Florida but in this case, I think he’s right and support his taking on the CDC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momof4crazytocruise Posted April 8, 2021 Report Share Posted April 8, 2021 Hopefully in Texas Gregg Abbott, who loves to shadow DeSantis when he thinks he's getting the upper hand in popularity, follows 'suit' (see what I did there?). Even if it's long and drawn out in the courts - at least it feels like they're doing SOMETHING. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted April 8, 2021 Report Share Posted April 8, 2021 To illustrate the impact of one ship leaving Florida and sailing from the Bahamas, Michael Bayley recently estimated just under 2,000 guests per weekend will be sailing from Nassau. That sounds about right for a ship at 50% capacity. CLIA has calculated the average cruise ship guest spends $385 in the home port before boarding a cruise. 1,800 x $385 = $693,000 per weekend not being spent in Florida bars, restaurants, hotels, taxis, etc. That's one ship at reduced capacity. Multiple it by two for full capacity and multiple it by many more for all ships across all lines sailing from Florida on any given weekend. That should give you an idea of what's at stake for Florida. And that doesn't include any of the other spend by the cruise lines for supplies and such, or other related jobs the industry supports. emmef, SebagoSue, SPS and 7 others 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 8, 2021 Report Share Posted April 8, 2021 I'm in favor of anything that moves the needle towards ships restarting. I'm not still not clear under what tort they are suing, but it's good to see more support for cruises. I think we call felt that for much of 2020, it was cruisers vs the world/CDC. Now it seems that narrative has shifted considerably. Cruising With JT, columbus_cruiser, jticarruthers and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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