JeffB

......... the freight train is picking up steam and moving. The faster it goes the harder it is to stop it.

"Onwards and upwards team" ......what this says to me is that RCL is operationally planning for it's ships to sail, I'd guess in the first week in July. Del Rio's remarks last week were pure theater. I think the several posts made within this forum present solid legal arguments that Ron Desantis has no intention at all of telling the cruise lines that plan on sailing from FL's ports, you can't require passengers to be vaccinated. Now, that's not to say RCL, for example, will require passengers to be vaccinated like NCL has already decided it will mandate them. Vaccine requirement plans remain

0_0, this link is somewhere else on these message boards but for your reading pleasure, here's the link to FL's filing in it's entirety. Incidentally, it was filed as an issue with Administrative Procedures that the federal courts have jurisdiction over and review. I don't think it could have been filed as a matter of questioning the CDC's authority to regulate sanitary conditions aboard vessels for the purpose of preventing the spread of disease within the US. The CDC clearly has that authority. http://myfloridalegal.com/webfiles.nsf/WF/TDGT-BZVLFJ/$file/Fla+v+HHS+and+CDC+complaint.pdf

I don't think anyone, including FL's Attorney General, has questioned the authority of the CDC or HHS (in the person of the Surgeon General) to regulate sanitary conditions on board vessels making port calls in the US. The USCG is the enforcement arm for the myriad maritime rules and regulations that ships calling on US ports have to comply with. Upon arrival in a US port, the captain of the vessel must certify that his ship is in compliance with these rules and it is part of the authorization process that port authorities undertake when approving a vessel's request to make a port call. As we

If the judge enjoins enforcement of the CSO (and all that entails), the preliminary injunction takes place immediately (there are varying rules and exceptions but basically immediately). I think it is correct to assume, it will take the cruise lines a while to digest the impact and implement an operational plan. However, if I have this right, the industry has probably been planning on this outcome for a while. Restart delays may be minimal. The case the FL's and TX State's Attorneys are making is solid. Twangster, I'm sure you've read the filing. I'm not a lawyer and don't think you are e

Private vaccine requirements are legal. The position that vaccine passports infringe on personal liberties in private settings doesn't hold water. Every one of you have, at one time or another, been required to show proof of vaccination to go to school. It is important to distinguish between public and private settings. Federal mandates for them, as in a requirement for "vaccine passports", not in a private setting, would most likely not survive a court challenge on the basis that mandating them broadly and at the federal level would abridge constitutionally guaranteed civil liberties.

People seeking to travel outside of the US in teh next 12 months or so are going to encounter a lot of uncertainty from the airlines, cruise lines and governments running the travel and leisure show inside their boarders. The best idea is to protect yourself from financial loss if something unexpected happens. Book refundable air fares or book your air with your cruise line of choice. Expect cruise itinerary changes and just enjoy the ride.

That take is possible. So are others with respect to the apparent stand the CDC has taken, namely publishing a laughable and seriously outdated phased return to cruising that clearly was staffed months ago, was pulled out of the cellar and dusted off just in time to send it's unobtainable, according to Del Rio, gates for a restart directly to the Judge that is hearing FL's lawsuit next week. Coincidence? I don't think so. They're feeling the heat.

I'm going to go with two possibilities here: (1) The CDC actually does have it's head up it's ass and will push for the phased restart as published. Mitigating against this line of thinking is that the thing is laughably outdated. Mitigating for it is that the CDC DOES have it's head up it's ass. (2) This is an industry smoke screen or a tacitly agreed upon one off- from Del Rio. Mitigating against this is the cruise industry rarely has one spokes person speaking for the collective. Mitigating for it is the line of thought that the industry knows the CSO's phased restart is going to

I'm going to add this as an extension to the line of thought above wrt HHS having it's backs against the wall. I'm advancing the thought that HHS/CDC had to put something out publicly demonstrating that they had a pathway to return to cruising. HHS/CDC were getting crushed from multiple directions. On a careful reading of that portion of the CSO, it's laughable. It's inconsistent with even their own recent guidance. One cannot take the thing seriously ...... and I don't think the cruise lines are taking it seriously. They have other plans. It's possible that the CDC has told the cruise li

May 12th. I'm betting the cruise lines know that FL has a strong case and is hopefully standing by. If the hearing gets postponed (HHS just submitted thousands of pages of documents to the court demonstrating they have a plan via the CSO protocols) or the judge rules unfavorably on the FL claim, they'll get to work on dismantling the CSO to the extent they can.

Well, the judge may take these docs as prima facia evidence that the CDC has a plan and FL should just wait as it unfolds. I don't know if his clerks have the depth of knowledge about this to actually understand how outdated and absurd the restart protocols are and then impart that view to the judge. I suspect the claimant's legal team does. Hope they get a chance to argue that HHS is stalling and what they submitted is invalid.

I think it should be understood that when the CDC made the initial announcement publicly a few weeks ago and then provided more information publicly yesterday, the cruise lines/CLIA had advance information ahead of both announcements. I think it's also a good guess that the lines have been preparing for a restart well before the press got wind of the CDC's recent public airing of restart protocols. Having said that, I simply cannot imagine what RCL's & Celebrity's Operations Departments are dealing with trying to build into their operations the protocols the CDC is requiring. Or,

People! You are trying to understand and make sense of this CDC stuff? STOP. Pray for a favorable Judgement in State of FL v. HHS on May 12th. If that doesn't happen here is my plan: Volunteer for a "test cruise" as soon as I can do that. Quietly board as if I'm playing along. Find a CDC monitor and laugh in his face. I'm booked on Apex out of Athens, 8n Greek Isles. Enjoy that cruise from a country that doesn't have to deal with the idiocy of the CDC. Wait for this to sort itself out and sail on Equinox out of PEV in August.

This is the stupidest of stupid stuff going on with the CSO. Restaurant's and bars have been doing fine with no masking while eating or dinking the entire dining period without any problems for at least 6 months. I'm confidently waiting on the Federal Judge hearing FL's request for a preliminary injunction against the CDC enforcing it's Conditional Sail Order (CSO) on the cruise industry ruling that it is unlawful. May 12th!!! If it's granted the bull-shit walks and the CDC's house of cards along with it's stupidity involving all manner of stupid COVID mitigation measures and guidance all