Who would ever let go of your child, even if there was no glass there?

[BunnyHutt]

6 minutes ago, twangster said:

Where did you see the video?

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=754098988428111&id=163113404640097

[Manana Chkadua]

I just saw the CCTV video from PR. I was appalled to see the Grandpa almost hanging out of the window - and he claim he could not determine the window is open? As he said, he felt the breeze and could not feel the window pane. Also, how the 18 month child can be put on that narrow ledge without her safety being endangered? In addition, please look at the shot showing distance between the baluster and the window- the  distance seems to exceed the 18 month child ability to reach the window pane - she would fell either on the floor or outside for sure! By the way, does CCTV shows other cruisers placing their children, drinks and personal belonging on the ledge? It is a negligent homicide in more than one way!                     

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=754098988428111&id=163113404640097

[twangster]

Thanks for sharing.  

I had mixed feelings about watching the video knowing the outcome.  

It does pretty clearly show him lean out the window before lifting her.    I don't think you can lean that far over the railing without sticking your head through the window and outside the glass.  With his body so far over the hand railing I cannot accept that he didn't know the window was open.

I also don't understand why the family is covering for him.  If my parents or in-laws did something like this and the video clearly showed what it does I would be not be so understanding and covering for them, I would be livid at them.  They would have to do some serious explaining to me.  

What is wrong with this family?

[Carlos A.]

4 minutes ago, twangster said:

What is wrong with this family?

 

This sums it up

[Ray]

9 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

What is wrong with this family?

Simple Answer =$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[Cez]

12 minutes ago, twangster said:

What is wrong with this family?

Sadly, greed and Michael Winkleman

[WAAAYTOOO]

I'm sure this all happened very quickly.  Being put immediately on the defense and in that split second afterwards, he probably jumped directly to "...it wasn't my fault.  I had no idea the window was open."  Once you pronounce your "alibi" you are kinda stuck with it.  I'm sure the grandfather didn't consider that there would be security cameras recording every moment.

I don't see how the family or the attorney can possibly move forward with the idea that Royal is somehow responsible for this.  It would seem that the only logical move now would be for the grandfather to accept the plea deal....if, in fact, it is still on the table after this video has leaked.  If he doesn't, he's goin' down...

[twangster]

6 minutes ago, WAAAYTOOO said:

I'm sure this all happened very quickly.  Being put immediately on the defense and in that split second afterwards, he probably jumped directly to "...it wasn't my fault.  I had no idea the window was open."  Once you pronounce your "alibi" you are kinda stuck with it.  I'm sure the grandfather didn't consider that there would be security cameras recording every moment.

I don't see how the family or the attorney can possibly move forward with the idea that Royal is somehow responsible for this.  It would seem that the only logical move now would be for the grandfather to accept the plea deal....if, in fact, it is still on the table after this video has leaked.  If he doesn't, he's goin' down...

Wait for it...  Mistrial.  Evidence leaked, not possible for a fair trial now, the jury pool is tainted.

[coneyraven]

3 minutes ago, twangster said:

Wait for it...  Mistrial.  Evidence leaked, not possible for a fair trial now, the jury pool is tainted.

Bingo!!!!

[Fairlynew]

The family is grieving.  Blaming the grandfather puts a lot of pressure on their support system; blaming a corporation allows them to bond together in grief against an outside entity.  Also, if mom and dad blame the grandfather, they have to realize that they were the ones who asked him to watch her.  I am not saying that this is right-I just think it explains why they are defending the grandfather.  I will confess that I did not watch the video, but I have been of the opinion from the beginning that the cruise line is not at fault for the various reasons espoused in various posts here.  

[twangster]

 

13 minutes ago, Fairlynew said:

The family is grieving.  Blaming the grandfather puts a lot of pressure on their support system; blaming a corporation allows them to bond together in grief against an outside entity.  Also, if mom and dad blame the grandfather, they have to realize that they were the ones who asked him to watch her.  I am not saying that this is right-I just think it explains why they are defending the grandfather.  I will confess that I did not watch the video, but I have been of the opinion from the beginning that the cruise line is not at fault for the various reasons espoused in various posts here.  

I thought that at first.  However putting myself in their shoes for a moment. 

The father is a police officer.  He has seen his share of family drama as a cop.  Now he has seen this evidence.  That changes everything.  

[Cez]

7 minutes ago, twangster said:

if mom and dad blame the grandfather, they have to realize that they were the ones who asked him to watch her.

It was obvious that he was doing a good job watching her and following her everywhere but made a terrible decision to put her on the reeling. Horrible accident at his fault but must be forgiven by the parents. Blaming third party doesn't accomplish it.

[Momof4crazytocruise]

Oh my goodness. I had such anxiety watching that - as soon as he he stuck his head out, and you knew where it was going.... Poor, poor baby  

[teddy]

If that is indeed him, that video is quite damning.....especially the second camera view.   Both the man and child break the plane of the window. 

[WoodsCommaElle]

My heart almost stopped watching that video. I honestly think the parents keep covering for him because they can’t believe a loved one would do something like that to a baby so they keep telling themselves it’s OK; it’s Royal’s fault. Sal would never hurt Chloe. However they really need to drop the lawsuit and get on with their lives. I imagine Royal would not be happy to give them money to make them go away when it’s clear Grandpa is culpable and made one bad move after another. 

That said if they knew at all that he had a vision impairment that meant he couldn’t tell a window was open, why leave him in charge of her? Couldn’t one of the parents have stayed back as a second sitter while the other went to take care of whatever? 

[Ogalthorpe Haywood]

5 hours ago, BunnyHutt said:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=754098988428111&id=163113404640097

It’s awfully tough to mount a defense after seeing that video. 

[WoodsCommaElle]

I’m following this story on another forum and read the CBS link someone posted. The family is angry the video was released and wants an investigation as to how Puerto Rican TV got it. Mom’s not too smart for being a lawyer herself:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cruise-ship-death-sam-anello-offered-plea-deal-in-death-of-granddaughter-chloe-wiegand-after-video-leaked/

[Jzx1103]

7 minutes ago, WoodsCommaElle said:

I’m following this story on another forum and read the CBS link someone posted. The family is angry the video was released and wants an investigation as to how Puerto Rican TV got it. Mom’s not too smart for being a lawyer herself:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cruise-ship-death-sam-anello-offered-plea-deal-in-death-of-granddaughter-chloe-wiegand-after-video-leaked/

Yea that's the family realizing their hopes of getting rich from this is slipping away.

[twangster]

9 minutes ago, WoodsCommaElle said:

I’m following this story on another forum and read the CBS link someone posted. The family is angry the video was released and wants an investigation as to how Puerto Rican TV got it. Mom’s not too smart for being a lawyer herself:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cruise-ship-death-sam-anello-offered-plea-deal-in-death-of-granddaughter-chloe-wiegand-after-video-leaked/

So the family has had the video for some time.  

They saw grandpa stick his head out the window, bend over, pickup up their child and drop her out the window.   

Yet they defend him and then file against Royal. I suppose they must defend him until the lawsuit is over, then they can expel him from the family.  

This is all and only about money.  
 

 

[WAAAYTOOO]

I’m sure the family was hoping that they could get the video thrown out, as evidence.  Now, as Twangbot has so skillfully predicted, they will claim jury bias.  Maybe they actually leaked it themselves !

[tiny blonde]

I don't know Spanish well enough to follow the narration of the video. Anybody? Can you follow what is being said?

[Ferramc]

28 minutes ago, twangster said:

So the family has had the video for some time.  

They saw grandpa stick his head out the window, bend over, pickup up their child and drop her out the window.   

Yet they defend him and then file against Royal. I suppose they must defend him until the lawsuit is over, then they can expel him from the family.  

This is all and only about money.  
 

 

I do wonder if they’ve convinced themselves that ‘grandpa didn’t know the window was open’ as a defense mechanism against this horrible accident. No matter how valid the facts are, they can’t allow themselves to believe them as it would cause too much additional pain - especially for grandma and the step daughter.  

I also wonder what Chloe’s father is thinking at this point - as someone earlier pointed out, he’s a cop and should be trained to deal with facts.  He’s got to be in an even worse place if he sees the truth and can’t get his wife and in laws to address it.  Same with his parents if they see it, too.

[Brobbins246]

2 hours ago, tiny blonde said:

I don't know Spanish well enough to follow the narration of the video. Anybody? Can you follow what is being said?

+1, hoping someone can loosely translate the video commentary.  At least give a summary.  

But wow, you can read the FB comments posted by translating them onscreen.  A lot of the posters think this was premeditated.  I'm not sure I would go that far.

[JohnK6404]

Wow... he clearly bends over the railing and sticks his head out of the window before he lifted her up and over the railing... so much for his lie that he did not know the window was open. 

 

[RWDW1204]

Grandpa stuck his head out not once but twice before picking Chloe up. And then not just setting her on the railing, he lifted her over it and out onto what I'm assuming is the window ledge. If this goes to trial, this footage totally blows up their "Grandpa didn't know,  Grandpa couldn't tell, it's all Royal's fault defense."

[twangster]

I think it's pretty clear why the prosecutor went forward with charges.  The video evidence is pretty clear. 

[Pima1988]

I truly do not get this family at all.  If you read the CBS link this is what the parents stated

"The family's sole motivation for not releasing the video was to protect their older child"

Huh? How is that child going to see it?  Don't you control the tv remote?  Don't you control their ability to see anything on the internet?  Sorry, BS Flag goes up for me on that defense.  My hubby defended this great nation during Gulf 1 and 2. He was deployed many times to what the military calls the sandbox (Iraq, Kuwait, Turkey, Afghanistan, etc) They were as young as babies and as old as teenagers during those 15 yrs.  Guess what I did when they were young?  No news on the tv until they were in bed, so they were unaware of what their Dad was doing.  They knew he was away, but there was no talking about what he was doing.  They were completely oblivious, or at least to this day they say we protected them and only when they got older did they realize, aka put 2 and 2 together that hmmm, that picture of Dad was taken at one of Husseins palaces, so he was in Iraq.

How on earth is this their defense?  Protect their older child?  You don't think doing the media circuit interviews is not making the child ask why are there cameras in our house?  When they did their announcement of suing RCL that the child didn't ask?  Any parent knows that kids at school talk.  My Mommy said your grandpa dropped your sister out a window.   I am sure that was said way before the video was released.  That horse left the barn 6 months ago.  

Had the video showed him not looking out the window before picking up Chloe, you darn well know their civil attorney would have released it to the media.  So, please, don't insult my intelligence as a parent and say...it was to protect our older child.  No, it was to protect yourself and your lawsuit.  It was to your best interests that it was never released to the world.  It is why impo RCL has not settled.  RCL has pure proof.  

If you also read that article, the grandfather is playing the line of color blind, but not truly believing it. ""I am colorblind," Anello said. "I've been told that that might be some reason, but I'm not the expert on that."

In essence, this man at his age, seems like he is doubting the defense.  He doesn't say I am color blind and because of that …. instead he says that MIGHT BE

Of course, now the family is going to be looked at as money grubbers.  They will become pariahs in their community.  You actually think his fellow police officers have not seen that video?  They may not say anything to his face, but you know, I know, we all know, behind his back they are talking, and ten will get me twenty, they are saying, Grandpa is at fault.

[WoodsCommaElle]

1 minute ago, Pima1988 said:

I truly do not get this family at all.  If you read the CBS link this is what the parents stated

"The family's sole motivation for not releasing the video was to protect their older child"

Huh? How is that child going to see it?  Don't you control the tv remote?  Don't you control their ability to see anything on the internet?  Sorry, BS Flag goes up for me on that defense.  My hubby defended this great nation during Gulf 1 and 2. He was deployed many times to what the military calls the sandbox (Iraq, Kuwait, Turkey, Afghanistan, etc) They were as young as babies and as old as teenagers during those 15 yrs.  Guess what I did when they were young?  No news on the tv until they were in bed, so they were unaware of what their Dad was doing.  They knew he was away, but there was no talking about what he was doing.  They were completely oblivious, or at least to this day they say we protected them and only when they got older did they realize, aka put 2 and 2 together that hmmm, that picture of Dad was taken at one of Husseins palaces, so he was in Iraq.

How on earth is their defense.  Protect their older child?  You don't think doing the media circuit interviews is not making the child ask why are there cameras in our house?  When they did their announcement of suing RCL that the child didn't ask?  Any parent knows that kids at school talk.  My Mommy said your grandpa dropped your sister out a window.   I am sure that was said way before the video was released.  That horse left the barn 6 months ago.  

Had the video showed him not looking out the window before picking up Chloe, you darn well know their civil attorney would have released it to the media.  So, please, don't insult my intelligence as a parent and say...it was to protect our older child.  No, it was to protect yourself and your lawsuit.  It was to your best interests.

Of course, now the family is going to be looked at as money grubbers.  They will become pariahs in their community.  You actually think his fellow police officers have not seen that video?  They may not say anything to his face, but you know, I know, we all know, behind his back they are talking, and ten will get me twenty, they are saying, Grandpa is at fault.

Plus you would think Mom and Dad would know how easy it is to get a copy of the surveillance video. If Puerto Rico follows right to know or freedom of information laws like we do here, all it took is someone behind the scenes of that show to fill out some sort of form and sign off. It’s no different than the local news showing a video from a store of a robbery suspect. 

I’d also like to know what mom’s fellow attorneys think of her now. I used to work in law and there are some dumb attorneys out there just like every other profession. My boss used to catch the opposing counsel with their pants down all the time. I’m sure dad’s fellow cops talk about him; he’s barely peeped in the media and Mom has done most of the talking. 

[Pima1988]

Here is one more thought to add into this mix.  

Pretty sure RCL took witness statements as soon as this occurred.

My guess is RCL security would immediately ask if anyone took photos...not of the accident, but moments just prior or after from an investigation aspect.  That would be just logical in my mind, but I am an NCIS, ID channel fan, thus, to me, that is what I would do when interviewing witnesses.

Think SELFIES people!   Seriously, how many times are you on the pool deck where people are taking pictures?  Not once have I ever walked across the pool deck without having to walk around someone taking a picture, ESPECIALLY on embarkation day!  This is the age of have phone, take a pic.  If they collected those pics, than they would also be able to show from different angles a time lapse of him.    

[coneyraven]

14 hours ago, twangster said:

So the family has had the video for some time.  

They saw grandpa stick his head out the window, bend over, pickup up their child and drop her out the window.   

Yet they defend him and then file against Royal. I suppose they must defend him until the lawsuit is over, then they can expel him from the family.  

This is all and only about money.  
 

 

I can't wonder how much of this B.S. is from the sketchy lawyer convincing them to go forward and that it's not their fault...... I would almost bet that he approached them, not the other way around, and in their state of mind, sold them a "bill of goods" that it was Royal's Fault.  Now, thanks to the lawyer, they're "all in" --- no backing out now.  And who wins in the end.... the family?  Not even close....... The Lawyer?  You betcha. 

[teddy]

I’ve seen a few references around the web to his age, along with (not so) subtle hints that it may be a factor. 
 

50 isn’t old and senile.  Seriously, it’s not. 

[Pima1988]

@teddy  I am 54.  If they are going to play that age game, than my kids should have me in assisted living right now.  Oh wait, no they don't want to do that bc guess what?  I just paid for 1 of their weddings only 6 weeks ago.  Oh, and who is going to babysit their babies?  Oh and silly me, how about those family vacays we pay for?  

This whole defense of age and vision is blowing up impo.  As the litigants, one of you is an attorney, one of you is a police officer, and both of you know his age and medical issues.  Are you saying, as a police officer, and you pulled him over for running a red light, you would accept color vision deficiency as a defense?  

Let me get this right.

Again, you, as a parent knowing that your stepfather has vision issues, and OLD allowed him to babysit your toddler?  Doesn't that actually bring into question you as a parent?  Maybe, he really is unhealthy, but you as a family member should have known his limitations.  You should have protected your child and him too.  

I have a fake knee and now a hip on the same leg.  We have a 3 yr old and 5 mos old grandbabies.  My husband and my kids, are protective of me around the little ones.  They will watch me like a hawk when I go to lift the 3 yr old bc they know 1 wrong bend and not only could I go down for the count, but the grandbaby I am holding will too.  They love me, but I think they are more concerned about the little one being injured.  Just saying, if you are rational, logical person with some intelligence as a parent, why did you let him watch your child knowing his age and medical limitations?  Seriously, my son and DIL, are within 2 steps of me when I am lifting the grandbabies...they are not paranoid millennials.  They are just parents that love their kids and me too.  They don't want me to hurt myself because I am that type of woman...hear me roar, I can do this....oh crap, I can't do that.  

OBTW and let me add, although we are loyal to Royal, we will do a Disney cruise in about 5 yrs. with the family for the grandbabies.  Why 5 yrs from now?  Simple.  I know the little ones.  I like balcony cabins.  I know me.  I would be paranoid the entire cruise of them getting too close to the railings.  I would never relax the entire trip.  It would be me looking around constantly and asking where is V and C?  

I know this is going off track, but I also kind of wonder...who paid for this trip?  Sounds crazy, but read me out.

Read above regarding family vacays.  My husband and I are fortunate.  We can afford at this point of life, pay to have family time together.   How many posters here or on other social media sites, do you read...we are traveling with my folks and they are paying for this trip?  Could it be, that the folks paid for the trip?  How do you rationalize this if they paid for the cruise?  How do you place guilt on the person that gifted you the cruise?  

[Manana Chkadua]

What is wrong with this family- they feed us one lie after another. Perhaps, they are unable to face the reality that the Grandpa reckless actions caused the death of the child or just want to get rich dunning RCL for the money:

1. They call the pool area baby play area although the CCTV video clearly shows the grandpa stood at the window next to the pool bar. We see adults at the counter and rows of pool chairs used  mostly by adults! Actually, I do not see too many children in the CCTV video.

2. RCL placed a railing across the length of the wall of windows the creating an 18 inches buffer zone between the windows and the cruisers for their safety. Since the Grandpa lifted her over the railing and put her on the window ledge she was NO LONGER  in the area designated as safe for cruisers and especially babies. So she was not at the BABY PLAY area!  During my several cruises, I never seen cruisers climbing on or over the railing or placing children on the window ledge! Please let me know whether you have seen parents placing children there?

3. Although he alleges that he was color blind, the video clearly shows him sticking his head and part of the torso OUTSIDE the window - he should know that window is open as he felt the breeze and did not feel the window pane present. As long as I live I did not met a person unable to determine whether window was open or close when they stick the head out of the window! It is not a color blindness but perhaps booze, opioids and other problems. For example, being totally reckless!

4. What difference it makes whether or not the 18 months old child asked her Grandpa to put her on the window ledge? If she was in the Zoo and asked him to put her in the lion cage so she could pet him- should the Grandpa do it? He supposed to ensure that the environment he puts the child in is safe and window ledge is never a safe baby play area. There was a railing placed by RCL to keep cruisers from the very windows.

The family arguments are becoming silly lies contradicting the actual evidence. Also,  we are not going to abandon a common sense to justify this oxymoron's mistakes. The Grandpa is guilty of the negligent homicide and RCL does not seem to owe the family millions they seek.

 

 

[VinceC]

CCTV footage released by Puerto Rico TV Show - see footage in the following link.

Link is at the end of the 3rd paragraph 

https://10daily.com.au/news/world/a191218zspyf/cctv-of-little-girls-cruise-ship-death-leaked-20191218 

[Cez]

2 hours ago, Pima1988 said:

If you read the CBS link this is what the parents stated

"The family's sole motivation for not releasing the video was to protect their older child"

I believe that this family sole motivation is making sure that their older child has obscenely rich parents.

[Jjohnb]

15 hours ago, Brobbins246 said:

+1, hoping someone can loosely translate the video commentary.  At least give a summary.  

But wow, you can read the FB comments posted by translating them onscreen.  A lot of the posters think this was premeditated.  I'm not sure I would go that far.

It was reported early on that the little girl had significant health issues at birth, perhaps there is something to that theory?

[PattiHere]

First, people say they feel bad for the family, I no longer feel any sympathy for them, but I do for Chloe, what the final seconds of her life must of been like.  
 

Watching the video, it appears that the grandfather held Chloe out of the window.  He is responsible for her death, no matter how the family or lawyers want to spin it.  If they want to help other children, admit guilt and tell parents/grandparents about what happened and to not ever put a child in that situation, I would definitely feel differently towards the family if they would have reacted in that manner.  Even if they were deeply in shock when this happened and were not thinking when they agreed to be represented by the attorney, they have now had a chance to realize the grandfather’s actions caused their daughter’s death, and speak on how to make sure it never happens again.  Instead of anger, they would have my sympathy if everyone would have admitted it was a horrible accident and we want to learn from this.

 

  As it is now, Chloe will be remembered as the little girl who had parents that wanted to get rich off of her dying, instead of teaching us the risks involved when we don’t think before we act.

[Jjohnb]

3 hours ago, teddy said:

I’ve seen a few references around the web to his age, along with (not so) subtle hints that it may be a factor. 
 

50 isn’t old and senile.  Seriously, it’s not. 

Absolutely true, 50 is not old period!  Also, as an IT professional he uses computer monitors all day long so apparently his "color blindness" wasn't all that debilitating if he's able to use a computer monitor.  Besides, that excuse is just as much out the window as his head was (twice) on the video tape!  Reminds me of that show that was popular when grandpa was young, "Smile you're on candid camera!"

[tiny blonde]

1 hour ago, Jjohnb said:

It was reported early on that the little girl had significant health issues at birth, perhaps there is something to that theory?

This may be evil of me, but I do watch a lot of "Dateline." I remember a story about a family who killed their son and made it look like a disappearance. For some reason, that story has been haunting me since this whole tragedy began. The child had issues that were going to require special services for life. Could he have thought he'd be doing the family a favor if he staged an "accident?" 

But it couldn't have been pre-meditated, because he couldn't know what he'd find on the ship. (Had they cruised before?) And if he wanted to make it look like an accident, he would have waited until they were at sea. No, if it were pre-meditated, he would have done a better job of it. He was just unfit to be watching a child.

[WoodsCommaElle]

49 minutes ago, PattiHere said:

First, people say they feel bad for the family, I no longer feel any sympathy for them, but I do for Chloe, what the final seconds of her life must of been like.  
 

Watching the video, it appears that the grandfather held Chloe out of the window.  He is responsible for her death, no matter how the family or lawyers want to spin it.  If they want to help other children, admit guilt and tell parents/grandparents about what happened and to not ever put a child in that situation, I would definitely feel differently towards the family if they would have reacted in that manner.  Even if they were deeply in shock when this happened and were not thinking when they agreed to be represented by the attorney, they have now had a chance to realize the grandfather’s actions caused their daughter’s death, and speak on how to make sure it never happens again.  Instead of anger, they would have my sympathy if everyone would have admitted it was a horrible accident and we want to learn from this.

 

  As it is now, Chloe will be remembered as the little girl who had parents that wanted to get rich off of her dying, instead of teaching us the risks involved when we don’t think before we act.

I feel so appalled that public opinion—and that of the family—isn’t focused AT ALL on Chloe. She is the real victim here. Not the parents looking for money. Not the grandfather and the hockey/colorblind/can’t see an open window defenses. A little girl who lost her life for no reason and no one seems to care as long as Grandpa doesn’t face consequences and the parents get money to keep telling themselves it’s Royal’s fault. Where is the concern for Chloe? Doesn’t she deserve justice.