WoodsCommaElle

New article from the Daily Mail about Grandpa’s latest court appearance. Not much we don’t already know, but a couple of highlights: -The parents are begging the Puerto Rico court to drop their case against the grandfather. -There was actually no plea deal offered, but there’s no indication Grandpa will plead guilty. -If sentenced, the Puerto Rican courts will let him serve in Indiana, but jail time isn’t likely. Link: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7935033/Parents-toddler-dropped-death-Royal-Caribbean-ship-beg-Puerto-Rico-end-case.html

I’m still perplexed by what exactly releasing the other angles will do. It will still show Grandpa leaning over the window and lifting Chloe, will it not? Is this slime bag attorney trying to say he feels the CCTV is made up? Even before the video was released the media reported that you see the grandfather going over to the window and leaning over. The family’s lawyer even AGREED with a reporter who essentially asked him if that was what Mr. Anello was doing. So what will another angle do? Show us that what Royal released was recreated by puppets?

Daily Mail story with an interview from the doctor who went to help Chloe. It includes photos of the family lawyer’s re-enactment: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7922419/Doctor-cruise-ship-recalls-finding-toddlers-body-grandfather-dropped-her.html The re-enactment photos still show that Chloe was held beyond the railing and the lawyer is insisting that Grandpa couldn’t have reached the window. The doctor said that Grandpa didn’t need a sedative to calm down. You’d think he’d be more hysterical after doing such a tragic thing. The family is also asking for other cameras from the ship to be released and now stating the cameras’ presence was not disclosed to them at boarding. Is that even a thing? When I went on my last cruise, which was only back in November, i don’t recall anyone at the terminal or on the ship telling me that surveillance cameras were recording onboard areas.

This lawyer is desperate. Did his degree come from a cereal box? Yeah sure Royal is lying. I guess the surveillance video was made up and filmed with mannequins and extras? ? Seriously though.

I was thinking it was a suicide. Unfortunately some LGBT people still face issues with acceptance and struggle with their identity.

I’m glad some of us here have the decency to say “poor Chloe.” She is the one who this story should be about. It makes me sad that this has delved into how the grandfather should get off* because he feels bad, and her parents trying to get every cent possible from Royal and be on TV whenever they can. No one seems to even notice that Chloe is dead because her grandfather made a careless mistake. I don’t care that she banged on the glass at hockey so her parents and grandfather think that’s OK on a ship. I don’t care that some public opinion says “oh lots of parents hold their kid up on railings!” *I’m not saying people here argue that Grandpa feels really bad and should get off without punishment. But spend a few minutes reading FB posts about this story and that seems to be the opinion of some.

I am so baffled that anyone is defending the parents and grandfather at this point. Granted that number is shrinking with the video evidence being loud and clear, but I can only think that anyone taking the family’s side knows them. Mom and Dad have to be the dumbest prosecutor and cop in the country to ask that the surveillance be thrown out. I don’t even care about their feelings at this point. Lots of people have gone to jail for not meaning to kill someone. Why should the grandfather get off? What if he had sent a text while driving and Chloe died in the backseat? Should he still get off just because he feels sad?

Does the lawyer think the security videos are made up or reenactments? He’s becoming a parody of himself at this point. I almost want to laugh.

I would have no words at this point for anyone who continues to defend this grandfather and the parents. The parents should just do the right thing at this point and have their civil suit dismissed. I keep saying this is a terrible accident, but at some point, the grandpa has to be held accountable. I’m in my 30s and even I can’t stand how personal responsibility is a dying concept in today’s society. Always blame someone else. Always go for the lawsuit and the money. As if that will bring your baby back.

Well look where he went to law school. The caliber of school definitely matters in that profession. (I considered briefly pursuing a law career and the cost of school and the bleak job market made up my mind fast.) No way he could measure up enough to get the kinds of jobs that go to grads of places like Villanova or Michigan.

Serious question, because I don’t have kids so really wouldn’t know the answer to this: Can an 18 month old talk/communicate enough to ask their parent to do something? I just read the complaint filed by the parents’ lawyer and it says Chloe asked her grandfather to lift her up to bang on the glass. I am sure she can’t form a full sentence but would she at least have been able to point and babble? The complaint PDF is past the video footage near the bottom of the page. The lawyer still seems like an idiot to me. Half his excuse seems to be “But other ships’ windows close!” https://www.crimeonline.com/2019/12/18/video-shows-heartbreaking-moment-grandfather-lifts-tot-girl-to-window-aboard-cruise-ship-before-she-falls-150-feet-to-her-death/

What kind of show is that supposed to be? I was almost surprised I managed to look past the puppet woman and watch the video. Is it like daytime talk?

I feel so appalled that public opinion—and that of the family—isn’t focused AT ALL on Chloe. She is the real victim here. Not the parents looking for money. Not the grandfather and the hockey/colorblind/can’t see an open window defenses. A little girl who lost her life for no reason and no one seems to care as long as Grandpa doesn’t face consequences and the parents get money to keep telling themselves it’s Royal’s fault. Where is the concern for Chloe? Doesn’t she deserve justice.

Plus you would think Mom and Dad would know how easy it is to get a copy of the surveillance video. If Puerto Rico follows right to know or freedom of information laws like we do here, all it took is someone behind the scenes of that show to fill out some sort of form and sign off. It’s no different than the local news showing a video from a store of a robbery suspect. I’d also like to know what mom’s fellow attorneys think of her now. I used to work in law and there are some dumb attorneys out there just like every other profession. My boss used to catch the opposing counsel with their pants down all the time. I’m sure dad’s fellow cops talk about him; he’s barely peeped in the media and Mom has done most of the talking.

I’m following this story on another forum and read the CBS link someone posted. The family is angry the video was released and wants an investigation as to how Puerto Rican TV got it. Mom’s not too smart for being a lawyer herself: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cruise-ship-death-sam-anello-offered-plea-deal-in-death-of-granddaughter-chloe-wiegand-after-video-leaked/

My heart almost stopped watching that video. I honestly think the parents keep covering for him because they can’t believe a loved one would do something like that to a baby so they keep telling themselves it’s OK; it’s Royal’s fault. Sal would never hurt Chloe. However they really need to drop the lawsuit and get on with their lives. I imagine Royal would not be happy to give them money to make them go away when it’s clear Grandpa is culpable and made one bad move after another. That said if they knew at all that he had a vision impairment that meant he couldn’t tell a window was open, why leave him in charge of her? Couldn’t one of the parents have stayed back as a second sitter while the other went to take care of whatever?

I agree with you. It will be interesting to see if the family pulls their lawsuit. IANAL, but if this were me, I’d take the plea deal. The parents have defended the grandfather and openly disagreed with the charges the whole time. If they are smart they’d tell him to let himself off the hook.

It seems like public opinion is swaying back towards “this man has suffered enough; he shouldn’t be charged at all.” I’ll keep that in mind if I ever cause harm to my pets (don’t have kids) to the point it kills them. I would never hurt one of my dogs intentionally. So let’s say I leave my dog in a hot or cold car and the weather conditions kill them. I can just say “But I feel really sad! I am suffering enough!” and get off in the eyes of the law? Is this really the precedent people want to set? Sorry, I was raised to deal with my mistakes. I seriously question people who think this man should just walk away with no consequence. When will people understand that he looked out the window for about 30 seconds to a minute and still held her up and still claimed to be clueless about the opening? By the way, maybe the Wiegands would do well to read a story about this boy who died when he was run over in a truck driven by his father. The kid fell off the truck; he didn’t die because the dad was speeding or was driving recklessly or texting. Therefore, that is an accident where there should be no charges: https://people.com/human-interest/tennessee-boy-dies-christmas-parade-accident/?utm_campaign=peoplemag&utm_source=facebook.com&xid=socialflow_facebook_peoplemag&utm_medium=social

Well again it just seems like the grandfather and parents are doing anything to avoid responsibility. The Daily Mail just reported on the plea deal as well, and his refusal made more sense to me when one of the commenters pointed out that if he takes the plea deal he’s admitting that it’s his fault. As of last week, the family was still saying they blame Royal for the baby’s death. I guess they need to decide if they want to sing a different tune or accept that Pops might not get off as easy in front of a jury. The Daily Mail also said that his lawyer is planning to get his medical records to use in the trial.

I believe Grandpa has/had another court appearance today, or a pre-trial conference was scheduled. Looking forward to the latest on that. Edit: He was offered a plea deal. It seems like he’d be getting off too easy to me. Minimum probation and supervision? Basically he’d be walking scot-free? But I’m not a lawyer so it’s possible I don’t get this fully: https://wsbt.com/news/local/local-grandfather-charged-in-cruise-ship-death-of-toddler-offered-plea-deal

I skipped both formal nights on Anthem last month. I was cruising solo for the first time and didn’t think it was necessary for me to pack dress clothes given that I was the only one who had to please me. ? I did kind of regret not doing one of the formal nights but it didn’t make or break my vacation. And it was definitely nice to not have to fight for a seat in the Windjammer on those nights! Plus people of all ages chose the Windjammer right along with me, so I think people of any demographic might prefer to skip the whole formal charade. Honestly I pay little attention to what others are wearing or not wearing unless it is really memorable. When I reviewed my cruise on the Cruise Critic forums, someone asked me if I had seen people wear shorts in the MDR because they wanted to know if shorts were OK. I honestly didn’t even remember or care what people had on. It’s really not my business.

Is that going to come before or after the hockey defense? Sorry my empathy for these people has hit rock bottom. (I do feel bad that they lost such a young, beautiful baby and are going through immense sadness around her birthday and the holidays. I don’t feel bad that they can’t keep a story straight and are acting like this happens all the time when not one of them has a shred of common sense that would have kept this baby alive.)

I remember on the top deck of Anthem for sail away I was a safe distance from the railing and water. I still was afraid I’d drop even my phone overboard while taking pictures.

I think I heard that the grandfather doesn’t drink and that he refused a breathalyzer. Can’t recall where I read that. But I do wonder if they are saying he doesn’t drink to cover for him. Even then, mom and grandmother as attorneys should know better than to lie in court evidence.

I am not a lawyer either. But I would think that even #1 is a game changer. Royal’s guest policy even says that guests are prohibited from sitting on the railings and everyone receives the policy in the cruise documents. Being color blind doesn’t mean he can also be unaware that no one should be sitting on railings. It was in the rules he agreed to. I’m not attacking you, PG, but the fact that he received the guest confide policy (that is also easily found online) negates the color blind excuse.