Diamond Lounge

[Rackham]

2 hours ago, Jill said:

The jump from Emerald to Diamond has always been a little one. Without double points promo, you could do it with 3-4 regular cruises. Many did it in 2 during double points. 

We were Covid D+. Went from 83 (pre Covid) to 187 with 4 cruises. 2 were plain balcony, 1 GS for 7 nights and a 12 night in JS. We would NEVER have done that in a regular year. 

I really can’t understand how they didn’t see this massive influx to top tiers when they offered this. I mean really, what did they think would happen? 30% increase to top tiers is HUGE! Not to mention allllllll those free drinks! 

If they ever do away with the drink vouchers, it’ll be waaaaay bigger than PizzaGate or doing away with the crystal blocks (which ultimately were cheapened to the current version). Hmmmm could we see a return of the old, limited Happy Hour drink menu? 

Grab yer torches and pitchforks! 

If you believe a particular poster over on CC, a limited happy hour menu in Celebrity's vein has been under consideration to replace the current drink vouchers. Wonder if we'd get something similar to the Captain’s Club breakfast with complementary premium coffees and limited bar menu on Royal if the vouchers did go away? (https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/2023/03/23/celebrity-royal-caribbean-cruise-loyalty-reciprocity)

I doubt they'll run another double points promo after what the last one did to their loyalty program's top tier numbers.

[smokeybandit]

I still think the voucher system actually saves RC money as compared to a happy hour.

[Rackham]

The voucher system might actually be making Royal money. I remember reading a study, a number of years ago, which investigated why certain bars and restaurants are more popular than others. The researchers' conclusion was popular bars and restaurants are popular because they're doing decent business to begin with. People see the bar or restaurant with multiple customers and decide the place is a good place to be, creating a positive feedback cycle drawing in more customers. How this ties in with the drink vouchers is having 10%, or somesuch, of the ship eligible for comped alcoholic beverages guarantees people with bar beverages and active bar areas throughout the day. Then you add in the people with the DBP who don't have vouchers and suddenly 30%+ (guessing here) of the ship can at least visit a bar for drinks without encoring a charge. Now the remainder of adults aboard without vouchers or the DBP are seeing people enjoying themselves with liberations while on vacation. Thus, encouraging purchases of alcohol at regular shipboard pricing which might not have otherwise been ordered. 

[karl_nj]

2 hours ago, Rackham said:

If you believe a particular poster over on CC, a limited happy hour menu in Celebrity's vein has been under consideration to replace the current drink vouchers.

Royal already had that, and then they replaced it with the vouchers. So if they do head in that direction, it would be less then copying celebrity, and more of a rollback to an earlier Royal policy (but perhaps related to trying to match benefits across lines, as mentioned in the cc webinar)

[Xaa]

12 hours ago, Jill said:

I really can’t understand how they didn’t see this massive influx to top tiers when they offered this. I mean really, what did they think would happen?

I think at that point they were just kicking the can down the road.  They needed cruisers.  Now they need cruisers less and have this problem they created, but are in a much better place to upset the loyal than they were then.

[teddy]

1 hour ago, Xaa said:

I think at that point they were just kicking the can down the road.  They needed cruisers.  Now they need cruisers less and have this problem they created, but are in a much better place to upset the loyal than they were then.

Yup. The big money-maker ships doing short cruises are full of new cruisers.  Lots of income being generated on those sailings. 
 

I have a difficult time to not believe every line of income and debit isn’t being scrutinized and that information being used to formulate long term goals.  
 

As I mentioned above, we’re Pandemic Diamonds.  We book lower price cabins and spend no extra money onboard. Mid level loyalty people like us aren’t bringing any extra income to Royal.  Despite what we read in our various echo chambers, I believe we are kind of like a silent majority, meaning the potential loss of our loyalty is outshined by the potential income of new cruisers.  This may seem short sighted to many of us, but I doubt Royal will lose money by consolidating/reworking/removing loyalty perks.
 

My prediction:  After a short outcry from current loyalty members, things will blow over and the money will keep coming in as people see Royal Caribbean as a viable alternative to land based vacations….just as they do now. People like us will just have to book older ships to get the price points we want. 
 

Royal Caribbean has a generous loyalty program compared to others, and I suspect they always will (when compared to others).  Our Diamond Status was matched by MSC to their second highest level…..you don’t get much. 

[Montemy2419]

I agree with @teddy that RC should have seen how the loyalty groups would grow at an artificial amount.  Now that the D+ and Pinnacle are making complaints RC is trying to work out a solution.  I think RC is very short sighted to piss off the current Diamond members no matter if you reached the points through double points or thru regular cruising. The problem is if everyone is Diamond and higher then no one is.

We just made Diamond this year with regular cruising and love to have the 4 vouchers a day.  We have visited the lounge and never have found more than 6 people using it.  We only go there to get a great view while cruising or to ask the concierge a question.  Personally I think you can only push people so much and we are trying out Celebrity just for better food.  We love everything else about RC but the food quality is just too poor now and I am not going to pay for an upcharge restaurant to have decent food.

[WAAAYTOOO]

They are definitely making money (maybe indirectly, by requiring fewer services, i.e., bartenders and servers in the now-defunct happy hour venues) on Dan and me with the vouchers.  Most days I don't use ANY of mine and never once have I ever used all of them in a day.  The voucher system seems to be the one shining example of a positive change made by Royal.  I do NOT miss the happy hours and the vouchers are there if I want/need one.

[teddy]

On the flip side, we are within striking distance of Diamond Plus, but the impetus just isn’t there like it was a year ago.  
 

We like Royal Caribbean, but aren’t adverse to sticking our toes in other waters. We didn’t think this way a year ago. It’s hard to explain our thoughts and put forward one concrete reason for our change.  

[smokeybandit]

17 minutes ago, Montemy2419 said:

I agree with @teddy that RC should have seen how the loyalty groups would grow at an artificial amount.  Now that the D+ and Pinnacle are making complaints RC is trying to work out a solution.  I think RC is very short sighted to piss off the current Diamond members no matter if you reached the points through double points or thru regular cruising. The problem is if everyone is Diamond and higher then no one is.

We just made Diamond this year with regular cruising and love to have the 4 vouchers a day.  We have visited the lounge and never have found more than 6 people using it.  We only go there to get a great view while cruising or to ask the concierge a question.  Personally I think you can only push people so much and we are trying out Celebrity just for better food.  We love everything else about RC but the food quality is just too poor now and I am not going to pay for an upcharge restaurant to have decent food.

I'd love to know the average number of drinks per person that were consumed when the DL happy hour was open bar as compared to average number of alcoholic drinks purchased with vouchers now. I think it'd be less now than before, since there's not that mental "pressure" to drink as much as possible during an open bar.

[Xaa]

24 minutes ago, Montemy2419 said:

I think RC is very short sighted to piss off the current Diamond members no matter if you reached the points through double points or thru regular cruising.

They don't need loyal folks today.  High C&A members cost them actually if their cabins could be filled with a newbie waiting to buy a drink package and spend.  If the time returns when they need their loyal base again, they'll do a promotion of thanks and gratitude and increase benefits and everyone will come running for it unless what the other lines are offering is better,

[bobroo]

12 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

I'd love to know the average number of drinks per person that were consumed when the DL happy hour was open bar as compared to average number of alcoholic drinks purchased with vouchers now. I think it'd be less now than before, since there's not that mental "pressure" to drink as much as possible during an open bar.

You are oh so right @smokeybandit! I refer to those DL days as Raccoons Entering the Dumpster and you could set your watch to them. Those open bars were far more expensive than todays system.

 

I'll tell everyone here a dirty little secret, the free drink receiving top tier members don't redeem all their daily free drinks coupons. My (very uninformed and totally biased) guess??? 60% redeemed over the course of a week long cruise. 

[smokeybandit]

38 minutes ago, bobroo said:

You are oh so right @smokeybandit! I refer to those DL days as Raccoons Entering the Dumpster and you could set your watch to them. Those open bars were far more expensive than todays system.

 

I'll tell everyone here a dirty little secret, the free drink receiving top tier members don't redeem all their daily free drinks coupons. My (very uninformed and totally biased) guess??? 60% redeemed over the course of a week long cruise. 

And I bet there are a good amount who still get the drink package despite having vouchers as well.

[Gilley]

When I become Diamond I’m using all those vouchers.  Are we allowed to share vouchers?  

[ChessE4]

7 minutes ago, Gilley said:

When I become Diamond I’m using all those vouchers.  Are we allowed to share vouchers?  

Yes, as in when you go to the bar or talk to the waiter, you just state you want to use your vouchers.  I do this with my wife.  If I want to keep them separate, I present both SeaPass cards.

[bobroo]

1 hour ago, smokeybandit said:

And I bet there are a good amount who still get the drink package despite having vouchers as well.

Completely agree! A first thought may be That's crazy! Not in a million years but ummmm....there are those Cruise Like Rick Jessup people. 

 

 

[Jjohnb]

1 hour ago, bobroo said:

I'll tell everyone here a dirty little secret, the free drink receiving top tier members don't redeem all their daily free drinks coupons. My (very uninformed and totally biased) guess??? 60% redeemed over the course of a week long cruise. 

Everyone is different and YMMV but at least for us you're spot on, we typically use 3 of our 5 daily vouchers.  Having said that, this is the single most important benefit that keeps us loyal to Royal.

[Ampurp85]

So I am on the fence. I think given that cruising was shutdown for 15 months the people who rose in the ranks were going to do that anyway. I think maybe 15-20% of diamond and above are unexpected. There are far less high ranking C&A members than I would've expected given the double points offer. On any given ship diamond and higher might make up 15% of pax.

I am also a person who doesn't use all of the vouchers but that's because I spend a huge chunk of my time at the casino. Thats another thing, lots of pinnacles are casino players so Royal is getting more from them then they spend on them.

I have been to the DL on many of ships and the only time they fill up is happy hour for snacks. This past April on Freedom there was never more than 5 people in there and they have that wonderful outdoor deck.

Royal is still making more than they spend in perks.

 

[Montemy2419]

3 hours ago, WAAAYTOOO said:

They are definitely making money (maybe indirectly, by requiring fewer services, i.e., bartenders and servers in the now-defunct happy hour venues) on Dan and me with the vouchers.  Most days I don't use ANY of mine and never once have I ever used all of them in a day.  The voucher system seems to be the one shining example of a positive change made by Royal.  I do NOT miss the happy hours and the vouchers are there if I want/need one.

I only drink water so I use my 4 vouchers everyday.  Maybe that is how you can finish using your vouchers ?

How is your cruise going, you're on one right now right  ?  We don't cruise next until January 2024 so I live thru everyone and their experiences 

[WAAAYTOOO]

1 hour ago, Montemy2419 said:

I only drink water so I use my 4 vouchers everyday.  Maybe that is how you can finish using your vouchers ?

How is your cruise going, you're on one right now right  ?  We don't cruise next until January 2024 so I live thru everyone and their experiences 

Yes, we are on Grandeur, the 4th cruise for us in Sept.  We disembark on Thursday and get a whole 7 days at home before going on a 15 night B2B on Mariner !  This cruise has been interesting.  As I mentioned elsewhere, this cruise is just overrun with children and I am not one to be bothered with children as a general rule.  The weather is making things worse since going outside or getting off the ship is really not an option.  The mania in the Centrum and WJ has gotten to me.  I think I am done with Grandeur, sadly.  The shining spots of this cruise have been the wonderful Staff and the good luck in the casino.  …and then, maybe I’m just ready to go home.  The internet is slightly better than it was on our 9-2 (Grandeur) sailing but still abysmal.  I feel bad for the VOOM staff.  I know there’s nothing they can do and they must field the endless complaints and complainers constantly demanding compensation.  On the good side, our JS is very comfortable and in a good location, so there’s that !  Tomorrow is PDCC (again !) then back to Tampa and home base for a week.  At the end of this one we will have 697 C&A points.  Hallelujah !

[OCSC Mike]

12 minutes ago, WAAAYTOOO said:

I think I am done with Grandeur, sadly.

12 minutes ago, WAAAYTOOO said:

back to Tampa

If they would just blow up that dang bridge so Voyager class and above could port there...

[teddy]

15 minutes ago, WAAAYTOOO said:

At the end of this one we will have 697 C&A points.  Hallelujah !

Damn.  That’s awesome!!!

[smokeybandit]

2 hours ago, Montemy2419 said:

I only drink water so I use my 4 vouchers everyday.  Maybe that is how you can finish using your vouchers ?

 

Definitely. We get water or powerade with our leftover vouchers at the end of the night.

[WAAAYTOOO]

Just read over on CC that Anthem will be changing over to the Crown Lounge tomorrow….first to make the change.  Consider the source.  May or may not be true.

[Jill]

10 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

And I bet there are a good amount who still get the drink package despite having vouchers as well.

We still bought the package with 4 free drinks but now with 5, we aren’t. That $14 makes a big difference!  

[Ampurp85]

57 minutes ago, Jill said:

We still bought the package with 4 free drinks but now with 5, we aren’t. That $14 makes a big difference!  

I was getting at least a soda package but considering I rarely use all my vouchers and I am now D+ and prime. I have no reason at all. 

[tonyfsu21]

20 hours ago, Gilley said:

When I become Diamond I’m using all those vouchers.  Are we allowed to share vouchers?  

Hopefully you make it to Diamond before they yank the vouchers. It’s been a good run but if things keep trending the way they have been with the new company leadership, say bye bye to the vouchers. I really hope they done go this direction but it wouldn’t surprise me. 

[Ampurp85]

33 minutes ago, tonyfsu21 said:

Hopefully you make it to Diamond before they yank the vouchers. It’s been a good run but if things keep trending the way they have been with the new company leadership, say bye bye to the vouchers. I really hope they done go this direction but it wouldn’t surprise me. 

I can't see the vouchers going away at all. It saves them more money than a happy hour. Eliminating the actual lounge would happen before they get rid of the vouchers.

[Vancity Cruiser]

21 hours ago, Ampurp85 said:

I have been to the DL on many of ships and the only time they fill up is happy hour for snacks. This past April on Freedom there was never more than 5 people in there and they have that wonderful outdoor deck.

I am diamond and have never been to the diamond lounge. 

[tonyfsu21]

1 hour ago, Ampurp85 said:

I can't see the vouchers going away at all. It saves them more money than a happy hour. Eliminating the actual lounge would happen before they get rid of the vouchers.

Famous last words. I don’t see logic playing a role in decision making at this point. 

[Rackham]

I wonder if they wouldn't keep the vouchers, but limit what they can be used on to a happy hour style menu? This would allow Royal to say the vouchers aren't going away, but also allow them to reduce the maximum value of each voucher.

[steverk]

I don't see Royal returning to the old happy hour in the Diamond Lounge any time soon. The lounges simply are big enough.  Enlarging them is expensive and impractical. Therefore,  I expect the vouchers to continue in some form. Perhaps drink prices will rise but the vouchers won't.  Perhaps the number given declines. Perhaps the program remains as is. Regardless,  I don't see it going back to what it was pre voucher. 

[BigKarl]

On 9/30/2023 at 1:54 AM, Xaa said:

Diamond Plus will be renamed Crown and then it will be Crown and above.  Just speculation.

I want to Identify as "Crown Royal" in fact I am going to register that name right now  

[bobroo]

Some more random thoughts:

--This seems like a rash, not well thought out decision. Like someone woke up from a bad dream and said "these Diamond and above are really causing a drag on earnings"--without really understanding the Diamond and above customers.

--This same person only sees the increased numbers of the top tiers (my last sailing they composed 10% of the total pax onboard--impressive!). This same person is blind to see the growth of Crown and Anchor to 25 million members. Yeah, 25 million members...so imagine getting 400-500 of the top ones any given sailing.

--How much does it really cost Royal to have a Diamond and above onboard? Well, not very much if you think about it. You might chose to multiply your daily free drinks by $14, re-do the math on what the core cost per drink is, let's guess high at $2 a drink. Have you ever looked at your local liquor store for the cost of that wine in your stateroom on embarkation day? Boy, they are good at writing copy for wine. Is it the coffee machine? Of the four of those machines onboard, yes it's the DL machine is the one that has leg day 7 days a week but man-oh-man; could it possibly cost that much??? The appetizers and the Ranger cookies, all ya' alls know you can get them in the Windjammer too, no?

--If you were to interview and ask every top tier member aboard your next sailing; you will find near 100% have a pending upcoming cruise. A better question might be just how many future cruises do they have booked? No doubt these are the best and most loyal customers. These are the people who kept faith and supported Royal when times were the worst. 

--The top tier folks consistently tip the crew the best. They also have the least problems and the most knowledge of how to have a cruise vacation. Relative low maintenance and give the crew benefits Royal doesn't have to pay for.

 

At the end of the day, Royal is going to do what they are going to do. Our small voices will have no input. But if you are concerned about what changes may/may not be coming, I'll tell you I am finding increased solace in the recent wise words of our good friend @twangster "Royal Caribbean and I have a business relationship" As much as I might not like it; Twangster is very, very correct. Thanks bro!

 

[barjpoe]

1 hour ago, bobroo said:

--If you were to interview and ask every top tier member aboard your next sailing; you will find near 100% have a pending upcoming cruise. A better question might be just how many future cruises do they have booked? No doubt these are the best and most loyal customers. These are the people who kept faith and supported Royal when times were the worst. 

 

Right now I've 7 up coming cruises on Royal.

[Vancity Cruiser]

1 hour ago, barjpoe said:

Right now I've 7 up coming cruises on Royal.

I am down to just 1 more on Royal. 89% of my past cruises were on Royal. 1 of my next 11 are on Royal. This is more a change in my cruising wants than it is anything Royal has done. All cruise lines (except Virgin) have made changes that have taken away things we always took for granted.

 

P.S. Interestingly the cruiselines are making all these cutbacks in the name of struggling finances but meanwhile are posting record breaking profits! Not just revenue - record breaking profits.

[smokeybandit]

I only have 3 booked right now. We've tried to fit in a third per year, but it's not going to work this year since shorter term bookings are so expensive, plus personal schedules don't really fit to pull one off during school breaks.

[teddy]

My wife and I have four Royal cruises booked together between now and January 2025.  She has an additional one with her sisters and a bunch of friends.

However, we do have two MSC cruises booked in addition to the Royal ones. Price and itinerary were the deciding factors in booking these. 

[Traveler]

7 hours ago, tonyfsu21 said:

Famous last words. I don’t see logic playing a role in decision making at this point. 

They can try like they tried to get money for Pizza ...

 

[Traveler]

I am sure Royal tracking each type if customer expenses and revenue.

We might think loyal customer not important as they might spent less or geting free drinks but if you look when you have many top loyalty cruisers and when you don't you can see that the loyalty cruisers tend to cruise more during off peak times. It's not hard to feel a ship during spring break and holidays , beat your most loyal cruisers and see what happens to the trans Atlant cruise and to the other off peak cruise ...