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Required Covid vaccine not legal?


Jill
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According to this article, a vaccine that has not been approved cannot be required by law. Currently the Covid vaccines are under EUA: Emergency Use Authorization. 
 

Interesting......

https://www.statnews.com/2021/02/23/federal-law-prohibits-employers-and-others-from-requiring-vaccination-with-a-covid-19-vaccine-distributed-under-an-eua/

 

 

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9 hours ago, CruiseGus said:

but none of that applies to a private business

As  private business I could require you to do hand springs to enter my establishment as long I did not discriminate on race; age; sex(or lack there of); or religion

 

I read this as any employer cannot require the vaccine. Once it’s approved, an employer can require it but not under EUA. 
 

American Queen Steamboat line and their other line is requiring it as of July 1 and they’re an American company. 

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1 hour ago, jticarruthers said:

Wouldnt it be a HIPAA violation to ask my medical status?

 

 

Ok calm down people. There are two totally different topics being referred to/discussed here and being turned into a pretzel. It wouldn't be a HIPAA violation to ask you medical status if your position, such as a nurse or a doctor, requires you to disclose it for medical safety reasons to your employer ONLY citing interaction with patients, surgeries, etc. preventing medical malpractice or any lawsuit by any individual. 

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29 minutes ago, princevaliantus said:

Ok calm down people. There are two totally different topics being referred to/discussed here and being turned into a pretzel.

And on that note, friendly reminder to all that if this thread has no relation to cruising, it shouldn't be here in the first place.  As @Matthas asked time and time again, keep it related.  There are other places for all these other topics.

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10 hours ago, Jill said:

According to this article, a vaccine that has not been approved cannot be required by law. Currently the Covid vaccines are under EUA: Emergency Use Authorization. 
 

Interesting......

https://www.statnews.com/2021/02/23/federal-law-prohibits-employers-and-others-from-requiring-vaccination-with-a-covid-19-vaccine-distributed-under-an-eua/

 

 

Yes but lately - who in gov't is actually following any law?  We're in a make it up as we go along mindset.  Moving goal posts - more masks are better now...   Can't fly to Mexico without a test, BUT you can drive or take a bus and its not required....   So much inconsistency.

 

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7 minutes ago, Lovetocruise2002 said:

And on that note, friendly reminder that if this thread has no relation to cruising, it shouldn't be here in the first place.  As @Matthas asked time and time again, keep it related.  There are other places for all these other topics.

For those of us who are likely to abandon cruising if private companies require it, and are disgusted with inconsistencies among worthless American "authorities," I think it does have relation to cruising. Letters and emails to our political betters who we put in office might yield a form letter response as it falls on deaf ears (I get responses about 30% of the time), because no on can criticize the CDC.

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19 minutes ago, Gears said:

This dynamic may lead to the creation/establishment of what has been mentioned in the press as a 'vaccine passport' or some government/universal certification mechanism.

I agree 1,000% Vaccine passports are a great idea. Is it really that bad when in reality most of us have as kids kept an Immunization Record, which is almost exactly like a vaccine passport. Who remembers these??? Would it be that bad to just stick it in your Passport Portfolio??

https://media.historyofvaccines.org/images/000602_265.jpg

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23 minutes ago, cruisellama said:

Yes but lately - who in gov't is actually following any law?  We're in a make it up as we go along mindset.  Moving goal posts - more masks are better now...   Can't fly to Mexico without a test, BUT you can drive or take a bus and its not required....   So much inconsistency.

 

Correct..  You can't fly into the USA without a negative test, yet you can walk across the boarder into the USA by the thousands with no social distancing, mask and no covid test.  So much inconsistency.  ?

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28 minutes ago, cruisellama said:

Yes but lately - who in gov't is actually following any law?  We're in a make it up as we go along mindset.  Moving goal posts - more masks are better now...   Can't fly to Mexico without a test, BUT you can drive or take a bus and its not required....   So much inconsistency.

 

 

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27 minutes ago, princevaliantus said:

I agree 1,000% Vaccine passports are a great idea. Is it really that bad when in reality most of us have as kids kept an Immunization Record, which is almost exactly like a vaccine passport. Who remembers these??? Would it be that bad to just stick it in your Passport Portfolio??

https://media.historyofvaccines.org/images/000602_265.jpg

Yep, no idea what that is ... and certainly dont have one of my own ?

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11 hours ago, CruiseGus said:

but none of that applies to a private business

As  private business I could require you to do hand springs to enter my establishment as long I did not discriminate on race; age; sex(or lack there of); or religion

 

 

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55 minutes ago, princevaliantus said:

I agree 1,000% Vaccine passports are a great idea. Is it really that bad when in reality most of us have as kids kept an Immunization Record, which is almost exactly like a vaccine passport. Who remembers these??? Would it be that bad to just stick it in your Passport Portfolio??

https://media.historyofvaccines.org/images/000602_265.jpg

Sooo Correct..

We couldn't graduate high school,  unless you're vaccination records were upto date.

Now it's offensive ? 

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1 hour ago, CruisinForABruisin said:

Man, pretty disappointed to see this level of anti masking and anti vaxing. Wouldve expected it on carnival, but thought RCL was better. Hopefully Celebrity is better, or perhaps cruising just attracts a type...

Mask's Are Cool.

P.S.  if you google "Vaxing"...you get pretty interesting pictures. ?

RangerSilver.jpg

927207.png

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3 hours ago, twangster said:

Foreign cruise lines are not subject to US state or federal labor laws or regulations regarding their foreign crew.

 

What about their headquarters and those who work there? Being based in Miami, wouldn’t they be required to follow federal law for those employees? I realize those employees have nothing to do with ships but interesting that those working out of Miami are under our federal labor laws (I assume) while the ship based operations fall under Liberia law? 

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1 hour ago, princevaliantus said:

I agree 1,000% Vaccine passports are a great idea. Is it really that bad when in reality most of us have as kids kept an Immunization Record, which is almost exactly like a vaccine passport. Who remembers these??? Would it be that bad to just stick it in your Passport Portfolio??

https://media.historyofvaccines.org/images/000602_265.jpg

Or the ICVP, (yellow card) I got when I got a yellow fever vaccine a long time ago that's extremely similar to the cards being given out for the current vaccinations.  While there is (a lot) of discussion (and some action) around a digital vaccination passport, the problem itself isn't a new one.  Royal or any cruise line doesn't need to reinvent the wheel.  If that's the direction they go you can just toss your vaccination card in with your passport, if there's progress on a more universal digital "card" they can tie into that system.

To be honest I think it's a moot point for the moment.  No one has _any_ idea what Royal, or more importantly the ports they visit, will give for requirements.  Till then it's just getting worked up over a potential possibility. 

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6 minutes ago, Jill said:

What about their headquarters and those who work there? Being based in Miami, wouldn’t they be required to follow federal law for those employees? I realize those employees have nothing to do with ships but interesting that those working out of Miami are under our federal labor laws (I assume) while the ship based operations fall under Liberia law? 

Ship crew on cruise ships are treated like the crew on thousands of foreign flagged ships such as tanker, container and cargo ships.

There are international maritime conventions that become involved for ship crew.  

I don't think Royal has suggested their US HQ employees will be required to vaccinate.

Keep in mind most terminals used to embark guests in the US use 3rd party companies that hire their own employees or contract them as independent contractors.  All those people we see when checking in and boarding a cruise are not Royal employees.  They too are out of scope for any Royal ship crew vaccination requirement. 

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2 hours ago, LizzyBee23 said:

An interesting question, but probably moot as the two vaccines being used in the US will probably have all of the data they need to file for full approval by April and May.

According to the article the FDA grants approval based on the outcomes of the trials. These trials won’t end for about 2 more years. 
 

Hopefully by then this dang virus will be well under control 

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6 hours ago, Jill said:

According to the article the FDA grants approval based on the outcomes of the trials. These trials won’t end for about 2 more years. 
 

Hopefully by then this dang virus will be well under control

I'm not proving you wrong to be snarky, just to correct the misconception:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idINKBN28K2Z5

It's easy to get confused about this... The efficacy trials have what you could call "no later than" dates associated with them to determine efficacy (which would only come into play if there were very few cases and the effect was hard to determine, ie the vaccine wasn't effective), and generally speaking companies will continue to collect safety data and anything else deemed relevant during that time even though it isn't necessary to grant full approval (though the FDA may require it, if that makes sense). Pfizer is planning to file for full approval this April.

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On 2/24/2021 at 2:23 AM, Jill said:

According to this article, a vaccine that has not been approved cannot be required by law. Currently the Covid vaccines are under EUA: Emergency Use Authorization. 
 

Interesting......

https://www.statnews.com/2021/02/23/federal-law-prohibits-employers-and-others-from-requiring-vaccination-with-a-covid-19-vaccine-distributed-under-an-eua/

 

 

This clearly relates to employees of companies only not customers...

Its like a restaurant or a nightclub..yes you can make a reservation but when you turn up they can refuse entry if you're not dressed properly or appear intoxicated. 

So what this means in relation to vaccine is that companies ( we will say RC ) employees dont have to agree to get the vaccine, however given the fact most are on rolling contracts those that refuse probably won't get contract renewed. 

With regards customers whatever rules RC apply we have to adhere to, if we are not happy with them then we just dont book and allow someone wanting to cruise no matter the restrictions the chance. 

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In reference to requiring employees to be vaccinated.

What most of us forget is that in the US ~80% of employees are "At Will"

In U.S. labor law, at-will employment is an employer's ability to dismiss an employee for any reason (that is, without having to establish "just cause" for termination), and without warning, as long as the reason is not illegal (e.g. firing because of the employee's race, religion or sexuality).

Maybe ya just can't tell them that's why they are fired, they still are fired

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On 2/27/2021 at 3:27 PM, DD474 said:

Yes... Same Here... I enlisted back in the 70s..?  Seemed like a good idea at the time. 

I’m guessing the DD474 was the Navy destroyer you were on. My dad spent 23 years in the Navy mostly on destroyers. My first “cruise” was a 2 week trip to Japan with my family on a troop ship where we lived for a few years in Yokohama. We had to get several shots before we went overseas. Then I joined the Navy at got more shots. 

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14 hours ago, GaryAA said:

I’m guessing the DD474 was the Navy destroyer you were on. My dad spent 23 years in the Navy mostly on destroyers. My first “cruise” was a 2 week trip to Japan with my family on a troop ship where we lived for a few years in Yokohama. We had to get several shots before we went overseas. Then I joined the Navy at got more shots. 

WOW.. ? What an interesting guess... I had no idea that DD474 was a Fletcher-class destroyer.  USS FULLAM (DD-474). Launched in the Boston Navy Yard on 16 April 1942.  Being that I was born and raised in Boston, it would be a great guess.   BUT the "DD" stands for Drew and Donna.?  "474" is my home street number.   That is so Funny.        I was actually in the Air Force, I was assigned to NORAD (25th ADS) McCord AFB - State of Washington.  ?  LOL..

 

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When I was young we had an immunization record to show our vaccination status for things like polio, TB, Plague, etc. Later the military gave us a Shot Record for every member of our family. Remember, there was no electronic system before the last 20 or so years. My military shot record was a part of our official personnel record and our health record. 

 

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