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49 minutes ago, steverk said:

The CDC may never declare cruising safe, because nothing in the world is completely risk free.  Therefore the  bureaucratic mindset says "don't declare it safe because someone  somewhere will get hurt or sick"

 

Of course cdc only controls us ports...anyone up for a cruise OUT of the Bahamas? 

I am honestly looking at a destination vacation to St. Thomas or St. Martin with my family if they decide to extend the no sail order. If we have to cancel through August and then again through October after I have rebooked to then, my kids will have completely lost out on having a vacation this year. This has been such a horrid year for kids, they need the vacation just as much if not more than we adults do. Their lives have been turned upside down. Plus, they end up hearing about all of the craziness going on in other places (especially in the US) and it adds to the stress. I would gladly fly to catch a ship at this point.

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I don't know about you guys but the only time I feel packed in on a cruise ship is during the muster drill!!

At what point do we passengers grab our torches and pitchforks? I’m about ready to start making some noise. 😂 If you can sit in a movie theater on land, you should be able to sit in a theater on

Wow, are you really suggesting the the CDC (the people who worked to stop the spread of Ebola, SARS, Swine Flu, Measles, Aids) are ENJOYING THIS?????  I'm sorry but I cannot believe any human being wo

5 hours ago, Mrs. Thomas said:

Because they are finally in charge of something. It's bureaucratic crap. This is the only time they are relevant and "important" and they are making the best of it. When else does anyone pay attention to them? It sounds like you are in a sarcastic and smart axx mood today. Maybe you should take a cruise and distress....oh wait...nevermind.

Wow, are you really suggesting the the CDC (the people who worked to stop the spread of Ebola, SARS, Swine Flu, Measles, Aids) are ENJOYING THIS?????  I'm sorry but I cannot believe any human being would accuse them of such a horrible thing.  

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10 hours ago, Traveler said:

I think the issue might be very simple : 

If you ask CDC as an health organization they will tell you that the best way to fight the C19 (or any other virus) is to close everything , everyone will stay at home and the army will bring the food and water. few weeks/month like that and everything will be OK. 

On the other hand you have the local business  and others organization  that are pushing to open everything so the economy can  recover. Theme parks = lots of local jobs and taxes at the parks/hotels/restaurants/laundries and many other business. They have someone to shout and push on their behalf. The cruise industry dose not have this  , they do not pay taxes in the US and the number of local jobs they provide are limited. 

That is why the CDC allowing other things to be open while keep the cruise shut, Its not because they hate cruising they just could not keep all  the other things close ...

I liked this and frankly could not agree more that it’s this simple. I don’t think at all they(CDC) mean to disrupt the industry. It’s just a position that is completely coming from a medical perspective. Just like if you work for a big company and the legal team is asked what to do and they give a very conservative opinion based on limiting liability....or the security officer gives an opinion based on protecting the company from hackers. But those folks are usually not the ones calling the shots and instead it’s someone who weighs the advice and ultimately makes a business decision that sometimes doesn’t follow the advice. 

The point here back to my original post is that if I can choose to take a vacation with my family to the beach and pool and restaurants While staying in a hotel in Florida, why not do the same things on a cruise ship pulling out of a Florida port?  Its really the same thing from an exposure perspective and is a decision I am making  

 

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3 hours ago, DunwoodyDad said:



The point here back to my original post is that if I can choose to take a vacation with my family to the beach and pool and restaurants While staying in a hotel in Florida, why not do the same things on a cruise ship pulling out of a Florida port?  Its really the same thing from an exposure perspective and is a decision I am making  

 

Let me ask, you would have no problem with you and your family boarding Enchantment, Vision, Independence, Adventure, or Liberty this weekend from some Florida port? Let’s say sailing an exciting itinerary of Labadee, Colon, Maracaibo, and top it off with a stop in Mobile? Is it of any significance Royal has implemented zero changes In passenger health and safety over the past 3 months? Would you like your cruise to be “business as usual” of Coca Cola freestyle machines, escape rooms, rides on a North Star 300’ in the air, or zip lining,  rock climbing, or maybe iFly (as long as the kids wear a helmet)? How about a 50 person hot tub in the afternoon? An inside cabin to keep cost low?
 

You would not bat an eye to doing any of this?

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There are other things to consider. The CDC wants to keep infections under control, there job is to protect the public. Not businesses.Theme parks, restaurants, hotels etc are immovable targets. These place are also on US soil meaning that as long as they can post guidelines, the rest falls on the public. You do have every right to choose to go to the beach, Disney and stay in hotels ...at your own risk. I just read that these places have no liability if you catch COVID. The people who probably caught Covid from/at that Jackson bar has no one to blame. Cruise lines have to be careful because they are a moving target. 1000s of people from different places, visiting other places with 1000s of people who could be potentially infected and multiplying. Another reason is like the other poster said, no body is lobbying for the cruise lines. Though there are port jobs, taxes, and other incentives to consider....they just don't contribute enough to the US to be deemed necessary. How many jobs would keeping places like Vegas, Disney, United, and the Hyatt cost the economy by being closed? Finally I said this before, I think it is because cruising is negative. The general public has declared cruises nasty; they won't bat an eye to a mask-less rally but a floating petri dish is nothing but a cesspool of disease. If it true that the CDC has been shooting down all of NCL plans, that means they might be siding with the public.

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6 hours ago, bobroo said:

Let me ask, you would have no problem with you and your family boarding Enchantment, Vision, Independence, Adventure, or Liberty this weekend from some Florida port? Let’s say sailing an exciting itinerary of Labadee, Colon, Maracaibo, and top it off with a stop in Mobile? Is it of any significance Royal has implemented zero changes In passenger health and safety over the past 3 months? Would you like your cruise to be “business as usual” of Coca Cola freestyle machines, escape rooms, rides on a North Star 300’ in the air, or zip lining,  rock climbing, or maybe iFly (as long as the kids wear a helmet)? How about a 50 person hot tub in the afternoon? An inside cabin to keep cost low?
 

You would not bat an eye to doing any of this?

I would absolutely go on a Royal cruise this weekend.  But I would also not be stupid about it....just like when I went to the beach Memorial Day week.  I would wear a mask when I am inside in crowded situations like boarding, going to the shops in the promenade, regularly use hand sanitizer after touching something other people touch, and of course wouldn’t shake hands and generally keep my distance from others. But I would still go to the pool, eat in the restaurants, and have a good time. My 4 teens would do what they are going to do and hang out with friends just like they do now when I’m home and when we were at the beach. I would tell them to be careful but realize they will only do so much. 
 

in terms of RCL, they haven’t said what they will / won’t do when allowed to sail again, but I’m sure we will be getting served in the Windjammer for a while. But it’s silly to think it won’t be modified once they do sail.

Again, my key point here is that all other US travel businesses have opened or are opening...why can’t they?  I do agree with some of the posts above that it’s rooted in taxes, number of jobs of US citizens Impacted vs non citizens, bad lobbying, etc.  Plus all the negative press from the Princess ships. 

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On 6/16/2020 at 1:50 PM, ehw51 said:

Agree completely, time to make some noise. Just at least give us dates. They meet on thur so hope they get some answers.

 

While I'm not one to grab a pitchfork and make a ton of noise... I did send a message in the contact us section of their site. I asked for updates and threw in a couple lines about things opening up etc.

 

https://www.royalcaribbean.com/resources/contact-us

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16 hours ago, Pooch said:

Wow, are you really suggesting the the CDC (the people who worked to stop the spread of Ebola, SARS, Swine Flu, Measles, Aids) are ENJOYING THIS?????  I'm sorry but I cannot believe any human being would accuse them of such a horrible thing.  

I'm not saying that it is all of those that work there. I also don't mean that they necessarily want people to be sick. What I am saying is that those who are in the most powerful of positions  are enjoying the ability they now have to control people, even if they don't say it out loud. If you think that some people don't  ever think that way then you truly don't understand the human condition and I would love to live with your rose colored glasses. You should look up the Stanford prison experiment. There is more going on with all of this than what most see on the surface. I've done my own research and there are things that aren't adding up. Anyway, yes, I believe the cruise industry is getting a raw deal. We see how RCCL and others are doing their best to do what is needed and then the rules change just as it is getting done, kind of like when Cinderella is trying to go to the ball (Disney version).

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6 minutes ago, Mrs. Thomas said:

I'm not saying that it is all of those that work there. I also don't mean that they necessarily want people to be sick. What I am saying is that those who are in the most powerful of positions  are enjoying the ability they now have to control people, even if they don't say it out loud. If you think that some people don't  ever think that way then you truly don't understand the human condition and I would love to live with your rose colored glasses. You should look up the Stanford prison experiment. There is more going on with all of this than what most see on the surface. I've done my own research and there are things that aren't adding up. Anyway, yes, I believe the cruise industry is getting a raw deal. We see how RCCL and others are doing their best to do what is needed and then the rules change just as it is getting done, kind of like when Cinderella is trying to go to the ball (Disney version).

These are the behaviors of arbitrary, capricious, over empowered, bureaucrats exercising their new found importance.  The beloved Dr. Fauci has admitted to deceiving/lying to the public regarding the use of face masks to achieve his personal agenda.  I wonder what other lies have been told by these so called experts who were proven wrong on so many of their assertions.  Do you honestly believe that they can be trusted?  I don’t necessarily believe that they are vindictive but they have certainly demonstrated that they are in over their heads and are irresponsibly abusing their position and power.

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14 minutes ago, Pooch said:

Sorry, I just don’t buy it.  Their concern, their JOB, is to supply the best health recommendations possible.  Balancing that against any other concerns is not their job.

Totally agree. They are doing their job. It just shouldn’t be their call whether the cruise lines resume or not just like it isn’t for every other industry. 

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30 minutes ago, DunwoodyDad said:

 

Again, my key point here is that all other US travel businesses have opened or are opening...why can’t they?  I do agree with some of the posts above that it’s rooted in taxes, number of jobs of US citizens Impacted vs non citizens, bad lobbying, etc.  Plus all the negative press from the Princess ships. 

Is it not impossible to think that the cold shoulder by the CDC is due the fact that cruisers are notoriously sloppy and lazy? The demographic class of the typical cruise ship passenger is over 60 years old and has known health issues? The reason the CDC has been deliberately silent is because a cruise ship has so many factors making it a pandemic bullseye that at this point in time it's off-the-charts crazy to change behaviors and make them a safe place???

Also, you are aware of what happens if any single person; passenger or crew, enters the medical facility on floor two not feeling well with a respiratory problem? You know the chain of events, right?

 

 

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and the fact that, if there's an outbreak at Disney, you have immediate access to healthcare, can send sick people to hospitals if necessary and send healthy people home.  What do you do if there's an outbreak in the middle of the Gulf of Mexico?  Life boats???  I am as anxious as anyone to be able to cruise but IMHO cruising is NOT the same as opening land establishments.

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52 minutes ago, Mrs. Thomas said:

I'm not saying that it is all of those that work there. I also don't mean that they necessarily want people to be sick. What I am saying is that those who are in the most powerful of positions  are enjoying the ability they now have to control people, even if they don't say it out loud. If you think that some people don't  ever think that way then you truly don't understand the human condition and I would love to live with your rose colored glasses. You should look up the Stanford prison experiment. There is more going on with all of this than what most see on the surface. I've done my own research and there are things that aren't adding up. Anyway, yes, I believe the cruise industry is getting a raw deal. We see how RCCL and others are doing their best to do what is needed and then the rules change just as it is getting done, kind of like when Cinderella is trying to go to the ball (Disney version).

I would love to know what lab you did your research in, and with what funding.  My friend runs a biotech lab in Boston, and they are currently hiring.

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18 minutes ago, bobroo said:

The demographic class of the typical cruise ship passenger is over 60 years old and has known health issues?

ROFLMAO

That is the straw mans' argument.

1. If that is the true demographic please explain why they have kiddie water play areas and have daycare on board?  Why do they have Pullman beds in certain cabins? Can you really see a 60+ yr old climbing up into a bunk.  Can you see them using the slide in the top level cabin?  The Lego board or the gaming stations?  

2. Disney cruises are aimed to young families, I bet their demographic is more in the 30-40 range than 60+.  Disney theme parks are a go, but not the ships.  

3. My Mom lives in a 55 and over community with a golf course.  She is 83.  She orders pizza to be delivered to her home.  She does not have to wear a mask upon delivery. She is interacting with youngsters.  She has had landscapers at her home and they are in contact with her.   Her friends and neighbors pop by and they don't wear face masks.  They too are out and about in the world.  Yet, not 1 person in her 1500 home community has died of CoVid.  OBTW those pizza delivery people and landscapers are young and are hitting the NJ shore.

4. I am 55.  When did 60 become at "deaths door"?  Have I had my hip replaced? Yep, but that was due to traumatic injury.  My husband at 56 does P90X every day.  I have already booked some of my excursions for May 2021.  We will be ziplining and doing the BOSS.  Granted I am not over 60, but I believe I am close enough to say BS!  

Have I seen people on scooters?  Yes!  Have I seen them at Wal-Mart or my local grocery store too? Yes!  Have I seen them at Disney World? Yes!  

My point is those places have the exact same health issues that a cruise ship does.  Do you think that Universal or Disney hotels will not be the same when Grandma and Grandpa pay for the family vacay?   Sure, they can get to a hospital, but be real!  They will suffer through it.  Cruise ship or hotel, if they are feeling under the weather they will stay behind and enjoy the amenities of the property instead of leaving.  

5. I would rather cruise than rent an Air B&B or beach rental.  Cruise lines have to follow CDC.  I don't see that occurring for rentals.  My family, including cousins rent beach houses every yr for family reunions, ages range from 1 to 85.  Want to talk about spreading CoVid there you go!  The houses are cleaned, but impo not to the level of a ship.

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And that is exactly the discussion here, that Cruise lines have to follow CDC guidelines.  You are either in favor of that being a condition of cruising or not.  I am 65 and in perfectly good health.  I also follow social distancing and always wear a mask.  Not sure what you mean by staying behind and enjoying the amenities.  So they will infect the hotel not the theme park?  Again, a cruise ship is self contained.  If there's an outbreak, there's nowhere to go to insulate yourself except barricading yourself in your room.  There needs to be much more stringent requirements for cruise ships.

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If i was in charge of a cruiseline i would be looking at Plan B

If CDC are planning to keep us out of US ports then where can we sail from?

Jamaica? Dominican Republic? St Maartan? 

Wouldnt get the whole fleet moving but some is better than none. 

 

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4 hours ago, Pooch said:

Sorry, I just don’t buy it.  Their concern, their JOB, is to supply the best health recommendations possible.  Balancing that against any other concerns is not their job.

The CDC won’t even express any interest in what the cruise lines are proposing. That’s not right. 
 

https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/2020/06/18/wall-street-cdc-blame-cruises-not-resuming-sooner

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Well since the CDC has always looked over the cruising industry maybe they are seeing things we don't see. Having been on cruises we know that the crew keeps things clean, way cleaner than anything else. So things are definitely fuzzy, why can't they open if NCL and maybe even RCCI has submitted new protocols???? Just maybe the CDC doesn't believe in them. Do I think everyone, from the bottom to the top, is self-serving...yes. However, I don't believe the CDC is doing this for a power grab. While 5 out of probably a million people would get on a cruise right now, the CDC is focusing on the 990+ thousand. Going to your local beach, theme park, or to another state is not the same as international travel. Most people are not ready for that....cruising is international travel.

Also consider this....how many people are following protocol?

In Chicago we aren't suppose to have inside dining yet, but all the small restaurants who don't have patio seating are doing it. There should be less than 25% capacity but I see places packed. People refuse to wear mask even though policies say no service if you don't. Social distancing is not being followed as people pack beaches and theme parks. Maybe the CDC KNOWS that people won't follow whatever protocols and are instead looking to the public to determine when cruising can continue. Not just there opinions but how the infection rates are doing and their reactions to protocols.

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@RBRSKI Mask or no mask required?  How were the restaurants?  I recently ate out for the first time since Dec, I was on a diet, then Covid happened and now I was tired of cooking. It was mask until we got to our table and mask anytime we were up and about...i.e to the bathroom and leaving. I didn't mind it but some people were rude to the servers.

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1 minute ago, Ampurp85 said:

@RBRSKI Mask or no mask required?  How were the restaurants?  I recently ate out for the first time since Dec, I was on a diet, then Covid happened and now I was tired of cooking. It was mask until we got to our table and mask anytime we were up and about...i.e to the bathroom and leaving. I didn't mind it but some people were rude to the servers.

Now that I think about it the only ones wearing masks were the hotel employees!  We did not eat at any of the restaurants.  They did have guides on the floor wherever people had to wait in a line.  They did have an announcement at the pool area every hour about how we can all be safe.  Kinda sounded like the voice you hear in Disney  LOL   The only housekeeping service was new towels delivered to room.  In light of all the stuff going on in the world today, everyone seemed to be very happy to be away!

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22 hours ago, Pooch said:

Not sure what you mean by staying behind and enjoying the amenities.  So they will infect the hotel not the theme park?  Again, a cruise ship is self contained.  If there's an outbreak, there's nowhere to go to insulate yourself except barricading yourself in your room.  There needs to be much more stringent requirements for cruise ships.

I mean exactly that.  They will stay in the hotel by the pool thinking they are socially distancing and not go to the theme park, hence, in their mind they are being pro-active.  They are not going to pack up and say let's get out of here, unless they go to the hospital.  They paid $$$ for the family reunion and by dang it they will fight through this, at least for aa day.  Afterall, it might be too much heat, not enough hydration, too much activity, etc. etc.  Just need a "down" day and will feel better.

Let's also be real.  I could go to WDW for 5 nights and feel fine.  The day we drive out I start to feel "funky".  We drive (12 hrs) so lots of stops for food and gas.  I abide by wearing a mask at these stops, but take it off to eat at Cracker Barrel, I use hand sanitizer as soon as I sit down. Finished eating, we go and buy some snacks, etc.  still wearing a mask. Never using the bathroom.  What you behind me didn't realize was that I picked up that bag of Munchos and placed them back for that fake cheese popcorn.  You just took that bag of Munchos.  I use the ATM pin pad right before you and you use it without wiping it down.  My germs are on both the Munchos and the ATM pin pad.  I get home the next day and I have CoVid.  You, unwittingly are now at risk.

I already infected a ton of people before I even felt funky just because I was at WDW sitting on that tea cup ride or holding on to the handle at Splash Mountain.  Mask or no mask.  Fact is those germs are on my hands when I wipe my face from sweat.  WDW is not as clean as any cruise ship. Yet, WDW and Vegas are allowed to reopen.

Have you even thought about how much you are exposed to at your local grocery store even if they require masks and social distancing?  They are not sanitizing like a cruise ship.  Great example.  When you buy your eggs, do you just grab a carton, or do you take it out, open it up and touch each egg to make sure none are cracked?  If so, you just placed your germs all over that container.  I come behind you 1 min later and do the exact same thing.  How about that eggplant or broccoli, are you taking just the 1st one there, or are you inspecting them and placing it back?  How many germs do you think are there?  

Your last comment about barricading is impo now a fact for many cruisers.  I see it from a booking issue.  My SoS May 2021 sailing no longer has any JS balconies left. The spacious balcony (lower cat) is now running higher than what I got my JS at.  My husband and I have always done balcony.  I personally believe that every cruise line will have to do deep discounts for interior cabins because of that exact fear.  

I would also add that is one reason why they will roll out Oasis and Quantum class 1st.  Those ships have a lot more balconies,  A lot more space from a density aspect compared to Freedom class ships.    

I will sail as soon as I can.  I believe 1 thing, the day you are born, the day you will die is set.  I have to believe that due to the fact my husband flew fighters for the USAF for 21 yrs and my son is a pilot for USAF now.  I cannot live in fear.  I can live in checking off my bucket list items, such as zip lining, para sailing, and now riding a scooter underwater to see Sea Turtles!

 

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