Big ships... what's missing

[RCVoyager]

I've been thinking about this for several months.  I don't want to sound like a grumpy or winey old man. I think, in the end, my wife and I are done with the big ships.  I know many here love them, and I've been trying to put my finger on why we didn't like our cruise last October on the Mardi Gras... yes, I know this is a Royal fan site, but Royal even more than Carnival is in the big ship game.  If this post offends you, please back out of it while I try to make a short, but I think relevant point that I think some here will agree with.

For my wife, it was simply the number of people jammed onto the ship, the poor service associated with managing 6500 people in such a small space, ect.  She probably wouldn't go back for free if offered.

For me, it was something different.  I didn't like the crowds that were everywhere all the time.  I didn't like having to use my phone on the ship to make reservations, but that really wasn't it.  I think it was the loss of connection with the sea.  It used to be when on a cruise, you were one with the sea.  There were great vantage points everywhere, and people would stand at the rail staring at it, being part of it, looking a the horizon, perhaps daydreaming of what could be or what could have been.

Now with all the activities and people, the ships are more like an amusement part, and the people are everywhere.  On the Mardi Gras, in the public areas, the rails are higher and set back from the side by an extra foot... the panoramic view is substantially cut for people of average height.  On these ships, the sea has become just another interstate.  It's nothing more than a way for the cruise line to kill time while they fill you with food, drink, and activities that drive revenue.

I haven't been to this site or posted as much in the last six months, and I think, sadly, it's because I've lost a lot of interest in cruising.  Again, not wanting to be a winey child, I've really tried to figure out why I didn't enjoy that trip at all, and wondered if any of the long time posters here have any of the same thoughts.

[ScottD]

I LOVE the Oasis class ships and feel the crowding is at a minimal due to the amount of activities and areas to congregate. So over crowding hasn't really been an issue to me, BUT I will agree, and have brought this up in other forums and platforms- the lack of ocean views and connectivity to the water is definitely lacking.  The fact that you can't see the ocean from the bars and lounges, or the restaurants and even the promenade unless you go out to the running track, is something they really seemed to have dropped the ball on.  The Older\smaller ships have windows in the Schooner bar and most of the restaurants, along the promenade areas....so you can see outside, Oasis does not. It does look like they opened it up some more on Icon, especially with that giant window on the side.  And the Quantum class ships have the lounge in the back with a great view. I am a huge fan of  Oasis, and the lack of interior views is really my only critique.

[HeWhoWaits]

2 hours ago, RCVoyager said:

because I've lost a lot of interest in cruising

Just stick with the smaller ships that give you the connection you desire. We love Freedom Class, like smaller classes, tolerate slightly bigger, don't plan to set foot on megaships.

[dustfsu]

Maybe if you think service was the issue because the number of passengers, give a Voyager Class ship a try or really go try a smaller Celebrity Cruise Line, still owned by RCCL. Reviews I read on Celebrity is that they say their service is always great and never lacks.  On RCCL sometimes you could get that service lacking because that crew is at the end of their contract and it isn't an excuse for them but it's sometimes hard to keep it going after 7 plus months on the ship.  Don't know if you have ever seen some behind the scene shows but man the crew on the ship work HARD! If you can find it watch Mighty Cruise Ships on the Smithsonian channel.

[smokeybandit]

I can appreciate liking the smaller ships, but no matter the ship size, I've never felt it crowded or felt the staff was overwhelmed with crowds.

[loki007]

Recently we were on Allure of the Seas, first time back on an Oasis class since the pandemic and absolutely loved it. I think the bigger ships do a much better job of dispersing the crowds. Service was excellent. I have not yet been on Icon but was told by an experienced cruiser they are not sure they can go back to Oasis class after being on because of the incredible experience. Everyone needs to cruise on the ships that they love the most. For us Freedom class would be the smallest we would do for a weekend cruise. For a week it would have to be Oasis or above. 

[PPPJJ-GCVAB]

I’ve been on just a few classes of Royal ships and enjoyed each one for their unique style.  Have truly never experienced feeling overcrowdedness (?) on any…so far.  Perhaps the other cruise lines do not quite match what Royal has achieved?
 Since the OP mentioned Mardi Gras…I look forward to seeing it for myself as it’s going to be one of 2 larger ships for me in September!

I am definitely partial to Royal!  I do hope @RCVoyager will give Royal another chance by taking the advice of the above comments!

[Cakemeister]

I think you should go to Celebrity or Princess for fewer people and better service.

[Doug_Texas]

We have had similar thoughts about our cruising future.  We were on Icon and were blown away how great it was.  We have 7 RCL cruises on the books and 3 other cruise line bookings.  Celebrity / Princess / Holland America helps with your service preference and bumping up to Oceania / Azamara helps even more with fewer guests and better guest to crew ratio (and MUCH better food).

There are also RCL strategies that help as well; smaller ships, Alaska, and transatlantic are great.  We have Alaska B2B on Radiance OTS which has great open spaces all around the ship with super viewing opportunities.  We also have transatlantic on Independence OTS and our experience is the guests are older, fewer kids, less congestion, and better service on transatlantic sailings.  The tradeoff is a drop in entertainment / music venues which is my wife's hot button.  We are thinking for 2026 an Oasis class transatlantic.

[WAYNO]

We've been on most of the ships, Explorer and larger.  I like them all, for different reasons, but my Wife's preference is the bigger the better. 

As far as crowds go, I might be the odd person out, as I like the hustle and bustle of life on a big  ship with lots of passengers.

But I do get, folks have their own ideas of what draws them to, or away from, the cruising lifestyle. 

Heaven to me is a packed Promenade.  There's just that more chance to meet new folks. 

 

[ChessE4]

For us, the itinerary is everything, since we are traveling. I agree with OP that smaller ships make the sea more accessible. Medium-sized ships have a Promenade and quiet spots, too. I can also see the appeal of larger ships for family reunions.

[drjohn4]

I have to admit that before my first cruise on an Oasis class ship - Allure of the Seas, I had the same concerns as the OP.  But when I went on the ship, I had a fantastic time.  I actually liked having all the activities to choose from.  Since I enjoy walking the jogging track and spent a lot of time on the upper decks, I didn't feel any lack of connection to the sea. I do agree with others though that it would be better if there were more indoor areas with ocean views.  I missed having a spot like the Viking Crown Lounge.

[steverk]

Different strokes for different folks. I too prefer "smaller" ships. For me that's Freedom or Voyager class.  For you it might be something different. 

As far as how crowded a ship feels depends on a lot of things.  Cruzely.com used to have a ranking of gross tons per passenger.  Since gross tonnage is a measure of volume,  this gives some idea of how spacious the ship will feel.  Carnival was among the worst on that measure. 

But tonnage per passenger isn't the only thing. More nebulous stuff like how well people are distributed and how well traffic flows are also important. 

[smokeybandit]

Gross ton per passenger is a highly misleading since most of the space is not space passengers physically occupy.

But I ran the numbers a while back for RC ships

Ship	Single Occ	Full Occ	Gross Tons	SO space rate	FO space rate
Mariner	3114	3807	139863	44.9	36.7
Icon	5610	7600	250800	44.7	33
Star	5610	7600	250800	44.7	33
Adventure	3114	3840	138194	44.4	36
Explorer	3114	3840	138194	44.4	36
Voyager	3114	3840	138194	44.4	36
Independence	3634	4375	155889	42.9	35.6
Jewel	2112	2502	90090	42.7	36
Brilliance	2142	2543	90090	42.1	35.4
Radiance	2143	2466	90090	42	36.5
Serenade	2146	2476	90090	42	36.4
Oasis	5400	6780	226838	42	33.5
Utopia	5668	6788	236860	41.8	34.9
Navigator	3376	4000	139999	41.5	35
Freedom	3782	4515	156271	41.3	34.6
Symphony	5518	6680	228081	41.3	34.1
Harmony	5497	6687	226963	41.3	33.9
Wonder	5734	6988	236857	41.3	33.9
Allure	5492	6780	225282	41	33.2
Liberty	3798	4960	155889	41	31.4
Anthem	4180	4905	168666	40.4	34.4
Ovation	4180	4905	168666	40.4	34.4
Quantum	4180	4905	168666	40.4	34.4
Odyssey	4200	5510	167704	39.9	30.4
Spectrum	4246	5622	169379	39.9	30.1
Rhapsody	1998	2416	78878	39.5	32.6
Vision	2050	2514	78717	38.4	31.3
Grandeur	1992	2440	73817	37.1	30.3
Enchantment	2252	2730	82910	36.8	30.4

[tonyfsu21]

9 hours ago, RCVoyager said:

I've been thinking about this for several months.  I don't want to sound like a grumpy or winey old man. I think, in the end, my wife and I are done with the big ships.  I know many here love them, and I've been trying to put my finger on why we didn't like our cruise last October on the Mardi Gras... yes, I know this is a Royal fan site, but Royal even more than Carnival is in the big ship game.  If this post offends you, please back out of it while I try to make a short, but I think relevant point that I think some here will agree with.

For my wife, it was simply the number of people jammed onto the ship, the poor service associated with managing 6500 people in such a small space, ect.  She probably wouldn't go back for free if offered.

For me, it was something different.  I didn't like the crowds that were everywhere all the time.  I didn't like having to use my phone on the ship to make reservations, but that really wasn't it.  I think it was the loss of connection with the sea.  It used to be when on a cruise, you were one with the sea.  There were great vantage points everywhere, and people would stand at the rail staring at it, being part of it, looking a the horizon, perhaps daydreaming of what could be or what could have been.

Now with all the activities and people, the ships are more like an amusement part, and the people are everywhere.  On the Mardi Gras, in the public areas, the rails are higher and set back from the side by an extra foot... the panoramic view is substantially cut for people of average height.  On these ships, the sea has become just another interstate.  It's nothing more than a way for the cruise line to kill time while they fill you with food, drink, and activities that drive revenue.

I haven't been to this site or posted as much in the last six months, and I think, sadly, it's because I've lost a lot of interest in cruising.  Again, not wanting to be a winey child, I've really tried to figure out why I didn't enjoy that trip at all, and wondered if any of the long time posters here have any of the same thoughts.

Carnival ships new and old were designed by a blind engineer. Horrible aesthetic and overall design regarding the routing of large groups of people across the ship. I find the Oasis class to be the opposite and have really never felt crowded. As far as other vacation options…. Hard NO WAY for us. We have recently tried some land based vacations that were horrible regarding the lines and crowds of people all fighting to get a spot at the pool. There’s so much more to see and do in a cruise which offers a higher overall value for my family. 

[Jill]

Just got off Icon this morning. I have mixed feelings. Loved everything about the interior of the ship. Shows were phenomenal, crew excellent.

The top decks were just too much/too busy. Flow was not good. Did not like The Hideaway and really missed the solarium. Don't really have a desire to sail that class again. Had a great time but it just felt chaotic at times. 
 

Oasis class is still my favorite. 
 

Really looking forward to Discovery Class

Have Celebrity booked next summer because Royal reduced European itineraries significantly IMO

[dustfsu]

15 minutes ago, tonyfsu21 said:

Carnival ships new and old were designed by a blind engineer. Horrible aesthetic and overall design regarding the routing of large groups of people across the ship. I find the Oasis class to be the opposite and have really never felt crowded. As far as other vacation options…. Hard NO WAY for us. We have recently tried some land based vacations that were horrible regarding the lines and crowds of people all fighting to get a spot at the pool. There’s so much more to see and do in a cruise which offers a higher overall value for my family. 

There are tips and tricks to avoid the crowds on the Oasis class ships.  One I have found is after a show is walk to the other side of the ship to take the elevators if you want to go to another deck.  Or if the promenade is crowed and you want to get around go outside on the track to bypass all the people.  On the pool deck it's better to be on 16 and walk around and then go down to a spot if you are looking for a chair.  I think the Oasis class ships do a good job spreading out the crowds.  Another thing you have to take in mind is the time of the year you cruise.  If you go during spring break or summer you will have a lot more families, so sometimes that can seem crowded in area's on the big ships.

[ScottD]

3 hours ago, tonyfsu21 said:

Carnival ships new and old were designed by a blind engineer. Horrible aesthetic and overall design regarding the routing of large groups of people across the ship. I find the Oasis class to be the opposite and have really never felt crowded. As far as other vacation options…. Hard NO WAY for us. We have recently tried some land based vacations that were horrible regarding the lines and crowds of people all fighting to get a spot at the pool. There’s so much more to see and do in a cruise which offers a higher overall value for my family. 

Now you have me 2nd guessing looking at resorts for our next family vacation... we LOVE cruising, but started looking at some of the AI resorts to something a little different. But I do find myself constantly going back to the cruise line websites, lol

[VeronicaS1970]

I too am not a fan of the big ships. Freedom is the biggest I like, Oasis doesn't do it for me and I have ZERO interest in Icon. I love Radiance class, where you do feel connected to the ocean. While I do enjoy the promenade I can get that on Voyager or Freedom class. I also enjoy quantum class, Odyssey being my favorite (I know that is not a popular opinion LOL) 

We are branching out and trying new things lines. We are trying MSC this fall in Yacht Club, something I would never consider except it was only $300 more than Symphony in a OV for the same week. We tried Celebrity last year, it was ok, older ship so we would like to a newer ship. 

[smokeybandit]

The "problem" with resorts is I wouldn't feel disconnected enough. Cruising and being at sea lets me not even remember what I have waiting for me back home, work especially.

Granted, as soon as I step off the ship on the last day, it comes storming back fast.

[tonyfsu21]

3 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

The "problem" with resorts is I wouldn't feel disconnected enough. Cruising and being at sea lets me not even remember what I have waiting for me back home, work especially.

Granted, as soon as I step off the ship on the last day, it comes storming back fast.

100% true. 

[ScottD]

37 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

The "problem" with resorts is I wouldn't feel disconnected enough. Cruising and being at sea lets me not even remember what I have waiting for me back home, work especially.

Granted, as soon as I step off the ship on the last day, it comes storming back fast.

That, and I HAVE to fly to a good resort. I can drive to the ports and save a lot of money doing it

[RCVoyager]

12 hours ago, tonyfsu21 said:

Carnival ships new and old were designed by a blind engineer. Horrible aesthetic and overall design regarding the routing of large groups of people across the ship. I find the Oasis class to be the opposite and have really never felt crowded. As far as other vacation options…. Hard NO WAY for us. We have recently tried some land based vacations that were horrible regarding the lines and crowds of people all fighting to get a spot at the pool. There’s so much more to see and do in a cruise which offers a higher overall value for my family. 

I have done Carnival as much or more than RCCL.  I really liked the Magic, and I was so looking forward to the Mardi Gras.  I was badly disappointed by the poor layout, the wasted space, the poor service, and the overcrowding of the Mardi Gras, but again as mentioned, it was almost as if the designers wanted passengers to forget they were on a ship.  Double width 5ft high glass rails everywhere is just terrible.  No connection to the Sea.

I've been fortunate enough to travel a couple of hundred weeks in my 59 years.  Very few times, maybe only this one time, did I feel cheated... did I wish I have done something else with my vacation time and dollars.

Carnival was not interested in our experience.  I tried to discuss it with their customer service people after the fact.  I received boiler plate responses.  I guess they know they can fill that ship every week with 6500 passengers looking to eat and drink until they are drunk and foundered... even if they run a few dozen sea loving traditional cruisers off per week.  There is a never ending supply of partygoers to take our place.  

Thanks to those above who mentioned the smaller ships, and I do think that's the way to go. Royal's Voyager Class has been good to us.  Additionally, we have most enjoyed renting condos at small complexes in Providenciales, St. Croix, Barbados, St. Thomas, and Grand Cayman.  The small complexes allow you to unplug.  St. Croix was on a small beach that was not crowded at all.  Cayman and Provo were on World Famous Seven Mile Beach and Grace Bay Beach... but were not near a big resort.  Very nice.  Very quiet.

[KWong]

18 hours ago, tonyfsu21 said:

We have recently tried some land based vacations that were horrible regarding the lines and crowds of people all fighting to get a spot at the pool. There’s so much more to see and do in a cruise which offers a higher overall value for my family. 

I take it that resorts are not your jam. I get it.

When it comes to land-based vacations, I'd much rather take the time to really explore a place rather than relax on the beach/at a pool the entire time - something that is much easier now that my girls are teens. For example we spent two weeks in France last year. Did 4 cities (Lyon, Marseille, Nice and Paris) and traveled by train. A great trip, but so very different from that cruise life. 

5 hours ago, RCVoyager said:

I have done Carnival as much or more than RCCL.  I really liked the Magic, and I was so looking forward to the Mardi Gras.  I was badly disappointed by the poor layout, the wasted space, the poor service, and the overcrowding of the Mardi Gras, but again as mentioned, it was almost as if the designers wanted passengers to forget they were on a ship.  Double width 5ft high glass rails everywhere is just terrible.  No connection to the Sea.

I hear you. To me, cruise ship layout is a key part in making your cruise enjoyable. I can see it just by reading your comments about the Mardi Gras. On these megaships, making them not feel crowded is such an important element, and I thought that Royal really nailed it with their Megaship layouts. And I thought that a ship like Regal Princess was laid out nicely as well. But then you go on something like DCL Fantasy, and you kind of see where design choices really constrict everyone.

And yeah, I do like something that gives you that feeling you're at sea, although I think my standards for that are lower than yours. For example, I love breakfast at Johnny Rockets on Oasis class ships. It's not a "true" connection to the sea, but it gives me a waterfront restaurant vibe, and I think that's what they were going for there.

[tonyfsu21]

1 hour ago, KWong said:

I take it that resorts are not your jam. I get it.

When it comes to land-based vacations, I'd much rather take the time to really explore a place rather than relax on the beach/at a pool the entire time - something that is much easier now that my girls are teens. For example we spent two weeks in France last year. Did 4 cities (Lyon, Marseille, Nice and Paris) and traveled by train. A great trip, but so very different from that cruise life. 

I hear you. To me, cruise ship layout is a key part in making your cruise enjoyable. I can see it just by reading your comments about the Mardi Gras. On these megaships, making them not feel crowded is such an important element, and I thought that Royal really nailed it with their Megaship layouts. And I thought that a ship like Regal Princess was laid out nicely as well. But then you go on something like DCL Fantasy, and you kind of see where design choices really constrict everyone.

And yeah, I do like something that gives you that feeling you're at sea, although I think my standards for that are lower than yours. For example, I love breakfast at Johnny Rockets on Oasis class ships. It's not a "true" connection to the sea, but it gives me a waterfront restaurant vibe, and I think that's what they were going for there.

I live in Fort Lauderdale so we probably see things differently. I don’t really care much about the beach and prefer the abundance of things to do on Oasis class/Icon and others while visiting some nice Caribbean islands at the same time. I am not a fan of spending too much time in one place so cruising satisfies that need pretty well. We have certainly tried all inclusive resorts in many exotic (and some local) destinations and find them to be more of a hassle than a relaxing vacation. Also important to note, close proximity to the 3 major cruise ports & D+ crown and anchor plays a major role in the decisions we make for vacations as well. Maybe one day when the kids get a bit older we will do Europe again but it will 100% be on a cruise ship. 

[OCSC Mike]

16 minutes ago, tonyfsu21 said:

close proximity to the 3 major cruise ports & D+ crown and anchor plays a major role in the decisions we make for vacations

+1 to this.

[KWong]

40 minutes ago, tonyfsu21 said:

I live in Fort Lauderdale so we probably see things differently. I don’t really care much about the beach and prefer the abundance of things to do on Oasis class/Icon and others while visiting some nice Caribbean islands at the same time. I am not a fan of spending too much time in one place so cruising satisfies that need pretty well. We have certainly tried all inclusive resorts in many exotic (and some local) destinations and find them to be more of a hassle than a relaxing vacation. Also important to note, close proximity to the 3 major cruise ports & D+ crown and anchor plays a major role in the decisions we make for vacations as well. Maybe one day when the kids get a bit older we will do Europe again but it will 100% be on a cruise ship. 

I'm in the Toronto area so def see things a little bit differently.

FWIW we always figured we'd take the kids on a Euro cruise. Instead we went land-based instead and are ditching them for a Mediterranean cruise on Explorer this October.

[JasonOasis]

18 hours ago, VeronicaS1970 said:

I too am not a fan of the big ships. Freedom is the biggest I like, Oasis doesn't do it for me and I have ZERO interest in Icon. I love Radiance class, where you do feel connected to the ocean. While I do enjoy the promenade I can get that on Voyager or Freedom class. I also enjoy quantum class, Odyssey being my favorite (I know that is not a popular opinion LOL) 

We are branching out and trying new things lines. We are trying MSC this fall in Yacht Club, something I would never consider except it was only $300 more than Symphony in a OV for the same week. We tried Celebrity last year, it was ok, older ship so we would like to a newer ship. 

Not a popular opinion?  I love Quantum Class ships, don't get me wrong Oasis Class is by far my favorite class of ship but Quantum Class is a close second. I"m sad to see Anthem go which will only leave us with Odyssey here on the East Coast.

[tonyfsu21]

1 hour ago, JasonOasis said:

Not a popular opinion?  I love Quantum Class ships, don't get me wrong Oasis Class is by far my favorite class of ship but Quantum Class is a close second. I"m sad to see Anthem go which will only leave us with Odyssey here on the East Coast.

We really enjoy Odyssey! That’s a great ship. 

[Mikei31]

On 4/27/2024 at 5:00 AM, RCVoyager said:

I've been thinking about this for several months.  I don't want to sound like a grumpy or winey old man. I think, in the end, my wife and I are done with the big ships.  I know many here love them, and I've been trying to put my finger on why we didn't like our cruise last October on the Mardi Gras... yes, I know this is a Royal fan site, but Royal even more than Carnival is in the big ship game.  If this post offends you, please back out of it while I try to make a short, but I think relevant point that I think some here will agree with.

For my wife, it was simply the number of people jammed onto the ship, the poor service associated with managing 6500 people in such a small space, ect.  She probably wouldn't go back for free if offered.

For me, it was something different.  I didn't like the crowds that were everywhere all the time.  I didn't like having to use my phone on the ship to make reservations, but that really wasn't it.  I think it was the loss of connection with the sea.  It used to be when on a cruise, you were one with the sea.  There were great vantage points everywhere, and people would stand at the rail staring at it, being part of it, looking a the horizon, perhaps daydreaming of what could be or what could have been.

Now with all the activities and people, the ships are more like an amusement part, and the people are everywhere.  On the Mardi Gras, in the public areas, the rails are higher and set back from the side by an extra foot... the panoramic view is substantially cut for people of average height.  On these ships, the sea has become just another interstate.  It's nothing more than a way for the cruise line to kill time while they fill you with food, drink, and activities that drive revenue.

I haven't been to this site or posted as much in the last six months, and I think, sadly, it's because I've lost a lot of interest in cruising.  Again, not wanting to be a winey child, I've really tried to figure out why I didn't enjoy that trip at all, and wondered if any of the long time posters here have any of the same thoughts.

It’s simple.  The big, new ships are directly made for and marketed to families and young adults.  They are simply amusement parks on water.  The amenities aren’t intended for older people.  Therefore you are going to be disappointed and feel left out.

I’m no cruise line genius but id have to imagine its a lot more profitable getting a family of 5 with young kids on board rather than 2 old people.

Families and kids will spend money on extras.  Older people are generally conservative.   There’s a reason why Icon has been marketed as the “ultimate family vacation.”   Nowhere does it say cruise and that’s on purpose.
 

With that said, I saw an article recently that said the average age of cruisers has come way down.  So the efforts the cruise lines are making are clearly working.

[steverk]

49 minutes ago, Mikei31 said:

It’s simple.  The big, new ships are directly made for and marketed to families and young adults.  They are simply amusement parks on water.  The amenities aren’t intended for older people.  Therefore you are going to be disappointed and feel left out.

I’m no cruise line genius but id have to imagine its a lot more profitable getting a family of 5 with young kids on board rather than 2 old people.

Families and kids will spend money on extras.  Older people are generally conservative.   There’s a reason why Icon has been marketed as the “ultimate family vacation.”   Nowhere does it say cruise and that’s on purpose.
 

With that said, I saw an article recently that said the average age of cruisers has come way down.  So the efforts the cruise lines are making are clearly working.

I think this might be part of the reason RCG has hinted they'll combine the celebrity and RCI loyalty programs.  If they can get the old timers to graduate to Celebrity,  that will leave RCI to concentrate on families and younger people. 

[Doug_Texas]

On 4/27/2024 at 1:14 PM, tonyfsu21 said:

Carnival ships new and old were designed by a blind engineer. Horrible aesthetic and overall design regarding the routing of large groups of people across the ship. I find the Oasis class to be the opposite and have really never felt crowded. As far as other vacation options…. Hard NO WAY for us. We have recently tried some land based vacations that were horrible regarding the lines and crowds of people all fighting to get a spot at the pool. There’s so much more to see and do in a cruise which offers a higher overall value for my family. 

Agree Carnival is terrible.  In 2024 they are scrapping Ectasy, Fantasy, Fascination, Inspiration, and Sensation.  Good riddance!

[Doug_Texas]

On 4/27/2024 at 11:29 AM, smokeybandit said:

Gross ton per passenger is a highly misleading since most of the space is not space passengers physically occupy.

But I ran the numbers a while back for RC ships
 

Ship	Single Occ	Full Occ	Gross Tons	SO space rate	FO space rate
Mariner	3114	3807	139863	44.9	36.7
Icon	5610	7600	250800	44.7	33
Star	5610	7600	250800	44.7	33
Adventure	3114	3840	138194	44.4	36
Explorer	3114	3840	138194	44.4	36
Voyager	3114	3840	138194	44.4	36
Independence	3634	4375	155889	42.9	35.6
Jewel	2112	2502	90090	42.7	36
Brilliance	2142	2543	90090	42.1	35.4
Radiance	2143	2466	90090	42	36.5
Serenade	2146	2476	90090	42	36.4
Oasis	5400	6780	226838	42	33.5
Utopia	5668	6788	236860	41.8	34.9
Navigator	3376	4000	139999	41.5	35
Freedom	3782	4515	156271	41.3	34.6
Symphony	5518	6680	228081	41.3	34.1
Harmony	5497	6687	226963	41.3	33.9
Wonder	5734	6988	236857	41.3	33.9
Allure	5492	6780	225282	41	33.2
Liberty	3798	4960	155889	41	31.4
Anthem	4180	4905	168666	40.4	34.4
Ovation	4180	4905	168666	40.4	34.4
Quantum	4180	4905	168666	40.4	34.4
Odyssey	4200	5510	167704	39.9	30.4
Spectrum	4246	5622	169379	39.9	30.1
Rhapsody	1998	2416	78878	39.5	32.6
Vision	2050	2514	78717	38.4	31.3
Grandeur	1992	2440	73817	37.1	30.3
Enchantment	2252	2730	82910	36.8	30.4

Perhaps passengers / crew is telling when it comes to service.  Regent is 1:1 with under 1,000 passengers and Oceania is 4:3 with mostly under 700 and always under 1,300.

[smokeybandit]

10 minutes ago, Doug_Texas said:

Perhaps passengers / crew is telling when it comes to service.  Regent is 1:1 with under 1,000 passengers and Oceania is 4:3 with mostly under 700 and always under 1,300.

But even that can be misleading since half the crew on the ship a typical passenger never sees. And that crew's jobs can be highly dependent on that ship's technology.

Now if they published the front of the house crew numbers/passenger ratio, that would give a better picture.

[HeWhoWaits]

57 minutes ago, steverk said:

I think this might be part of the reason RCG has hinted they'll combine the celebrity and RCI loyalty programs.  If they can get the old timers to graduate to Celebrity,  that will leave RCI to concentrate on families and younger people. 

If all our D+ perks were available on Celebrity, we would very quickly lean that direction based on our one Celebrity cruise earlier this year. Without those perks, there is still incentive to stick with Royal.

Itinerary is still most important, but our experience with service onboard would make me choose a similar itinerary on Celebrity over Royal with the same perks.

[steverk]

1 hour ago, smokeybandit said:

But even that can be misleading since half the crew on the ship a typical passenger never sees. And that crew's jobs can be highly dependent on that ship's technology.

Now if they published the front of the house crew numbers/passenger ratio, that would give a better picture.

Any objective, numeric measure can be misleading.  So much of the feeling that a ship gives is subjective that no measure will be perfect. Regardless,  a ship that has a low passenger to crew ratio and a high gross tonnage per passenger is likely to feel much more spacious and relaxing than one with the opposite metrics. 

[PhillyLady]

I am not a long time poster, but I am certainly a long-time cruiser! 

I did not join any travel forums until the past few years when my work schedule became less crazy.

My father was in the Navy in WW II, and his love of water meant that our whole family cruised together starting more than 50 years ago!  Those were the days--one dinner time, one restaurant, no televisions, no casinos, bunk beds,--it was the ship, entertainment, and ports.  I guess it helped that our first cruise went from Venice all the way to the Black Sea for multiple weeks.

So, EVERYONE in our extended families after marriage and children has been on a cruise multiple times, many different lines.  In fact, I can name at least three or four lines we cruised on that no longer exist! But, we always liked the full-service cruises with all the bells and whistles.

This past year brother and I both did different Viking cruises (me-river, him-ocean). Okay, the river cruise boats are so small you can see the whole boat in about an hour!  Yes, it is kind of fun and relaxing, but extremely cozy, and it is a week without any kind of fun evening activities (many people just sit at the bar and drink).  We took a walking tour every day, as every day is a port.  Brother said he missed the non-stop evening activities on Viking Ocean, he missed the art auctions(?!), and also the dress-up night with photographers, although they enjoyed the tranquility.  Again, a different port every day.  The adults-only did not really affect us, although I am not sure that I would want to cruise on a ship that was more than 50% children. 

I have to say that depending on my travel mood or interest at certain years, different types of cruises will appeal to me at different times, including destination, cruise line, itinerary, price, etc. Just to be clear, we do many other different types of trips--all inclusive resorts, driving trips, tours, etc., etc., but I 100% agree that the serenity of the ocean and the glorious sunsets, the night sky full of stars, and all the great ship activities make us totally loyal to the cruise experience. 

I like RC just because of the big ships and all the crazy activities (husband ALWAYS attempts the rock-climbing wall!), and it is fun to hear what is happening currently on this forum. Last Summer we cruised the Med on Princess, this Summer back in the Med on Cunard, next Spring on RC in the Caribbean, and in-between several other types of travel and adventures (ski trips, tours).  We usually do an A-I resort every few years or so--we have great prices and great connections here on the East coast. 

The truth is, I love to travel, and I love to cruise, but remember, variety is the spice of life, so don't be afraid to try different travel experiences whenever you need a change! The ocean will always be waiting for you to return.  Bon voyage!

[Doug_Texas]

18 hours ago, HeWhoWaits said:

If all our D+ perks were available on Celebrity, we would very quickly lean that direction based on our one Celebrity cruise earlier this year. Without those perks, there is still incentive to stick with Royal.

Itinerary is still most important, but our experience with service onboard would make me choose a similar itinerary on Celebrity over Royal with the same perks.

Agree 100%.  A little excited and a little nervous with the rumors of revamping and merging RCL and Celebrity loyalty programs.

[Stephanie]

Personally, the Quantum class ships have been my favorite so far.  I feel like Goldie Locks, but to me, it's just right.  We sailed on Navigator last summer. I liked the size of it, but the shows / entertainment weren't as good of quality as you get on the larger ships.  We sailed on Symphony it's inaugural season. My husband loved it and wants to sail on Icon. I, like you, thought it was a bit overcrowded and a little too big. It was impressive, though. Which is really the only reason my husbands wants to sail on Icon - just to see it and experience it. 

I hope the rumors of a Discovery class are true. Or, that the loyalty programs would combine. We're 1 sailing away from Diamond class- one of the main reasons I haven't wanted to stray from RCL. I know you get the same status on Celebrity, but not earning status isn't worth it for me at this point in my cruising career.

[Jill]

On 4/28/2024 at 3:47 PM, HeWhoWaits said:

If all our D+ perks were available on Celebrity, we would very quickly lean that direction based on our one Celebrity cruise earlier this year. Without those perks, there is still incentive to stick with Royal.

Itinerary is still most important, but our experience with service onboard would make me choose a similar itinerary on Celebrity over Royal with the same perks.

We’d absolutely start sailing more with celebrity if our D+ was matched. 2 hour happy hour is very hard to go back to once you’ve experienced 5 vouchers a day. Do have celebrity booked next summer out of Southampton because the ship and itinerary are way better than what independence offered