Discovery of the Seas

[steverk]

1 minute ago, baltodave said:

Would that make it small enough for Tampa, Baltimore, Panama Canal and some European Ports (e.g. Montenegro)?

Assuming they're careful with the dimensions,  it should be able to go through the new panama canal locks.

I doubt Tampa will be possible. 

Idk about Baltimore. 

Europe is going to depend on the port.

[dr martini]

Vision class is 70-80k gross tons, Radiance class is 90k and fits those places, voyager 140k.  obviously this is all speculation and would depend on how wide/tall they settle on going.  will also need shore power capability and fuel cell or natural gas burning to meet strict emissions rules, still at such an early stage.  like, drawing on a napkin in the bar stage.   

Project Eagle that led to the voyager class started in 1995 and Voyager entered service in 99.  in that project the ship famously (infamously?) grew 40% from their first projected size.  I think the same inevitable growth happens here, there's just no way they go as small as I've seen some people here talking after all the success the mega ships are bringing them.  this is a business decision.  Icon will be icon, this is a replacement for the tonnage they will lose as vision/radiance/voyager all get retired in the next 15-20 years, think of discovery as a newer, more efficient hybrid of those classes that royal can probably also build a discovery plus of as they evolve and/or share the frame with celebrity.  royal is not an expedition line, they THE mass market big ship, big fun big family line.  

sure vision class still exists and is paid for, but how much EBITDA are they really kicking off vs the newer half of the fleet?  what's the repair/maintenance cost as a % of total net profit that they return and how does that compare with the newer ships?  these are the considerations Royal is weighing much more than "do we still need a ship that fits in new orleans or tampa or every other place?"  We don't have to listen to what they say, look at what they're already doing.  Royal wants to run more, bigger ships out of big port facilities that they control for a better, more efficient experience for the passengers and for suppliers and staffing.  Royal wants to then send those passengers to island/port experiences that they control and can also profit from and on and on.

2,500 passengers with very limited opportunity for upcharge items vs 6-7k passengers on newer classes spending alllll of the extra money on shopping/dining/play.  it's going to become a very simple equation and it's not going to be a 'small' ship in any sense, it's going to need space for the bells and whistles and space for the people needed to pay for those amenities.  

[twangster]

33 minutes ago, baltodave said:

Would that make it small enough for Tampa, Baltimore, Panama Canal and some European Ports (e.g. Montenegro)?

The Panama Canal is more a factor of hull design and avoiding things hanging off the ship.  That's what is keeping Voyager, Freedom and Quantum class out of the PC.  

I don't see them building a ship just so that they can keep something in Tampa or Baltimore.  They'll want Discovery going to exotic destinations that mega ships can't sail into.  Those types of ports of call aren't within reach of Tampa or Baltimore.  They need the exotic destinations to justify increased cruise fares.  They need elevated cruise fares to satisfy the business model which is increasingly focused at mega ships for the mass cruise market.  Absent of mega pax volumes, exotic destinations with an upscale pricing model can achieve similar revenue margins. 

Neither Tampa or Baltimore scream exotic elevated pricing.  

[steverk]

16 minutes ago, dr martini said:

Vision class is 70-80k gross tons, Radiance class is 90k and fits those places, voyager 140k.  obviously this is all speculation and would depend on how wide/tall they settle on going.  will also need shore power capability and fuel cell or natural gas burning to meet strict emissions rules, still at such an early stage.  like, drawing on a napkin in the bar stage.   

Project Eagle that led to the voyager class started in 1995 and Voyager entered service in 99.  in that project the ship famously (infamously?) grew 40% from their first projected size.  I think the same inevitable growth happens here, there's just no way they go as small as I've seen some people here talking after all the success the mega ships are bringing them.  this is a business decision.  Icon will be icon, this is a replacement for the tonnage they will lose as vision/radiance/voyager all get retired in the next 15-20 years, think of discovery as a newer, more efficient hybrid of those classes that royal can probably also build a discovery plus of as they evolve and/or share the frame with celebrity.  royal is not an expedition line, they THE mass market big ship, big fun big family line.  

sure vision class still exists and is paid for, but how much EBITDA are they really kicking off vs the newer half of the fleet?  what's the repair/maintenance cost as a % of total net profit that they return and how does that compare with the newer ships?  these are the considerations Royal is weighing much more than "do we still need a ship that fits in new orleans or tampa or every other place?"  We don't have to listen to what they say, look at what they're already doing.  Royal wants to run more, bigger ships out of big port facilities that they control for a better, more efficient experience for the passengers and for suppliers and staffing.  Royal wants to then send those passengers to island/port experiences that they control and can also profit from and on and on.

2,500 passengers with very limited opportunity for upcharge items vs 6-7k passengers on newer classes spending alllll of the extra money on shopping/dining/play.  it's going to become a very simple equation and it's not going to be a 'small' ship in any sense, it's going to need space for the bells and whistles and space for the people needed to pay for those amenities.  

I agree with most of what you say. Bigger ships are Royal's focus and probably their future. 

However, there is one big reason why the size mentioned today is likely in the cards. That is the Panama Canal.

Royal has been repositioning the radiance class ships through the canal as the Alaska season begins and ends. If they want to continue to do that, then there's a very strict size limit.  If they decide that isn't really important then discovery either gets cancelled or grows to 300,000 tons.

[FionaMG]

3 hours ago, baltodave said:

Would that make it small enough for Tampa, Baltimore, Panama Canal and some European Ports (e.g. Montenegro)?

Both Explorer and Voyager have calls in Montenegro this summer and next summer so if the new class is around their size I guess it would also be able to call there.

[Matt]

4 hours ago, steverk said:

Based on this, I am even more convinced there will be some kind of announcement before the end of 2024.

...which is what Michael Bayley hinted at

https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/2024/01/05/royal-caribbean-ceo-new-smaller-cruise-ship-could-be-announced-2024

[JasonOasis]

Since this thread is already about project Discovery I have some questions.

Virgin Voyages which has been carving out its own path in the cruise industry just announced that its 4th ship Brilliant Lady will be delivered in September 2025.   They also revealed they made purposeful and intentional changes to Brilliant Lady's design so the ship will be able to sail through the Panama Canal and also the ship will enter the already crowed Alaska market. 

I know Virgin only has 4 ships but what kind of pressure if any pressure at all does Virgins entrance into the Panama Canal market put on Royal to get Project Discovery right so that class of ship can fit through the Panama Canal?  Or is the Panama Canal market not that important of a market to Royal?

Also for a few weeks in 2026 Virgin will offer sailing out of Los Angeles but I think Royal is already ready or anticipated this move as Quantum OTS arrives in Los Angeles in late 2025.

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/virgin-voyages-news

[steverk]

51 minutes ago, JasonOasis said:

Since this thread is already about project Discovery I have some questions.

Virgin Voyages which has been carving out its own path in the cruise industry just announced that its 4th ship Brilliant Lady will be delivered in September 2025.   They also revealed they made purposeful and intentional changes to Brilliant Lady's design so the ship will be able to sail through the Panama Canal and also the ship will enter the already crowed Alaska market. 

I know Virgin only has 4 ships but what kind of pressure if any pressure at all does Virgins entrance into the Panama Canal market put on Royal to get Project Discovery right so that class of ship can fit through the Panama Canal?  Or is the Panama Canal market not that important of a market to Royal?

Also for a few weeks in 2026 Virgin will offer sailing out of Los Angeles but I think Royal is already ready or anticipated this move as Quantum OTS arrives in Los Angeles in late 2025.

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/virgin-voyages-news

Since nobody here has access to Royal's internal decision process,  all we can do is guess how much they worry about Virgin Voyages. 

With that in mind, my thoughts are Royal doesn't really pursue the Panama Canal market.  They reposition through the canal,  but that's not the same thing.  What other lines do is really irrelevant.

Therefore,  Royal will have to balance the economy of scale that can be achieved by  going larger than new Panamax vs. The operational flexibility they get by being new Panamax class.

[smokeybandit]

RC is sailing at well over 100% occupancy. I doubt they're worried about Virgin. I'm sure like any other competitor they're doing due diligence, but I doubt they're concerned.

[Matt]

Royal has said numerous times they don't market themselves and/or compete against other cruise lines.  They go after the people that have never cruised before, because that's about 90% of the population.  It's cheaper and easier to go after them than to try to convince a Carnival or Virgin cruiser to try Royal.

Obviously Royal pays attention what other lines do, and there's a bit of a game of one upmanship. 

[cruisellama]

On 5/25/2023 at 5:13 AM, twangster said:

There have been rumors of "Project Discovery".  Royal likes to call new ship class developments a "project".  However that's all that been known.  

Considering that Vision and Radiance class are all that can use the Panama Canal, it stands to reason that Royal would look to create a new class that could.  Mega ships are great but they are a PITA when deploying ships between the Atlantic and Pacific.  They need something that can.

Without any proof or facts, I've always thought that taking the Edge class platform, the basic hull design, not an Edge class ship and painting a Royal name on it, they could leverage a successful hull design and save that engineering cost, and by using LNG engines, build on that hull design to create a new class for Royal.  

  

Vision and Radiance class appear to intersect at the Millennium class for displacement and  passenger count.  I liked that the M class ships had 3 elevator locations (F, M, A) as opposed to 2 found on later designs.

[asquared17]

On 5/5/2024 at 10:53 AM, cruisellama said:

liked that the M class ships had 3 elevator locations (F, M, A) as opposed to 2 found on later designs.

i would agree with this 

[twangster]

It occurs to me that Royal's new status match program could impact project discovery.  

The status match program could be a way to nudge Royal cruisers to sail Celebrity.  Celebrity has smaller ships.  

Royal Caribbean International has a purpose in corporate life.  It is mass market cruising.  That means mega ships carrying mega passengers.  The whole concept of project discovery flies in the face of the mass market cruise segment.

I've always been curious why a mass market mega cruise line would build a smaller ship.   Instead, why not leverage existing smaller ships in the family of cruise lines under the RCG umbrella?

Time will tell.  Maybe the status match is a test to see if Celebrity can fulfill the role of more interesting itineraries to a broader range of ports leaving RCI to be the mega mass market brand in the family. 

[Chili]

Possible 

[smokeybandit]

I'm not sure the status match for most RC customers moves the needle at all to want to try Celebrity

[baltodave]

3 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

I'm not sure the status match for most RC customers moves the needle at all to want to try Celebrity

I agree.  We're "Diamond" and even that doesn't push us to Celebrity. 

Since I live in the Baltimore area (if you didn't guess from my handle), we're looking forward to a Vision replacement that will be able to use the Baltimore port.

[Vancity Cruiser]

2 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

I'm not sure the status match for most RC customers moves the needle at all to want to try Celebrity

I already cruise Celebrity but the status match is very underwhelming to me. The free drink vouchers on Royal is unmatched in the cruising space and with the price of drink packages nowadays even more so. When Celebrity begins offering free drink vouchers (or a soda package) I'll get excited. 

[jack1111]

Maybe I'm overly optimistic, but I've always hoped that the name "Discovery" hints at a Royal Caribbean marketing scheme aimed at promoting visits to smaller ports and rarer destinations. This would necessitate smaller, more agile ships compared to the mega-sized ones. While it's possible that in 10 or 20 years every port in the Caribbean could accommodate an Oasis-class ship, currently, these enormous vessels are limited to fewer ports. Thus, smaller ships can provide unique and diverse experiences, opening up a wider array of destinations for exploration and enjoyment.

[Rackham]

I've got nothing to back this take outside of where Royal is positioning themselves in the mass cruise market.  My take is Project Discovery is supposed to target families who'd prefer national park lodges and towns like West Yellowstone to major theme parks. Or families who'd want more cultural experiences than thrill rides. With both Icon class and what's speculated about Discovery class, Royal would offer a cruise experience for nearly every type of family group who doesn't mind a resort experience. It'd basically cement themselves (if successful) as THE family cruise line where if a family can afford the rates, it's where they'd start when booking a cruise. Or, at least, that's what Royal could be hoping.

[steverk]

2 hours ago, Rackham said:

I've got nothing to back this take outside of where Royal is positioning themselves in the mass cruise market.  My take is Project Discovery is supposed to target families who'd prefer national park lodges and towns like West Yellowstone to major theme parks. Or families who'd want more cultural experiences than thrill rides. With both Icon class and what's speculated about Discovery class, Royal would offer a cruise experience for nearly every type of family group who doesn't mind a resort experience. It'd basically cement themselves (if successful) as THE family cruise line where if a family can afford the rates, it's where they'd start when booking a cruise. Or, at least, that's what Royal could be hoping.

Interesting take on where Royal is heading.  Your guess on the matter is as mine. They may actually be considering a combination of both our thoughts.

My thought is that Royal doesn't want to abandon cold weather cruises. Those would be Alaska, northern Europe and New Zealand. The only classes suitable for that is Quantum, Voyager, Radiance and Vision. As you can see, most of these ships are getting near end of life. 

I think Discovery will be smaller to make repositioning easier (read passage through the Panama Canal) and many of the cold weather ports are too small for a megaship.

[smokeybandit]

I think it's simpler than that. RC has very popular but smaller/leaner itineraries that their big ships will never be able to serve. 

There will come a point where Vision and Radiance ships aren't viable to maintain anymore (especially the new eco rules), and Voyager not long after that.

[twangster]

40 minutes ago, steverk said:

Interesting take on where Royal is heading.  Your guess on the matter is as mine. They may actually be considering a combination of both our thoughts.

My thought is that Royal doesn't want to abandon cold weather cruises. Those would be Alaska, northern Europe and New Zealand. The only classes suitable for that is Quantum, Voyager, Radiance and Vision. As you can see, most of these ships are getting near end of life. 

I think Discovery will be smaller to make repositioning easier (read passage through the Panama Canal) and many of the cold weather ports are too small for a megaship.

Quantum class has been wildly successful in Alaska.  Alaska is solved for Royal, for what a mass market cruise line hopes to accomplish.

The problem with Northern Europe is the vast distances are no longer attainable by HFO/MGO ships.  IMO 2023 all but eliminates mass market ships carrying masses vast distances at high speed, as required for Northern Europe.   Lines like MSC and AIDA who have invested in LNG will be able to do some, lines like Royal that only have mega LNG ships, not so much.  Royal is making too much money in the Caribbean to send one of the few LNG ships they have to Northern Europe, which is not the right size market for a full mega ship.

That is why we see kind of dull Indy cruises in Europe going forward.

America is not (yet) tabling the type of emission changes that other regions are moving forward with.  Royal is playing the hand of cards they were dealt, having stacked the deck with what they thought was the right thing to do by not updating recent ships like Odyssey to LNG (as a cost saving measure).  

I'm so confused why people seem to think Royal is compelled to serve all markets for ever.  They are not.  They will not.  

[steverk]

On 6/5/2024 at 9:44 PM, twangster said:

I'm so confused why people seem to think Royal is compelled to serve all markets for ever.  They are not.  They will not.  

I don't think anyone is arguing that Royal is compelled to stay in any market. Rather, they recognize that it's very difficult to grow as a company while simultaneously pulling out of established markets.

Therefore, I expect Royal to develop the Discovery class to address the shortcomings outlined above and allow Royal to maintain an even greater presence in these markets. 

Could I be wrong? Of course! Royal doesn't consult with me and my opinion is no better or worse than anyone else. 

[Jill]

I agree with @twangster that what makes the most sense is utilizing the already smaller celebrity ships to the smaller ports. It just seems logical. We chose Apex over Indy to the fjords next year because Indy’s itineraries are not good. We wanted the deep fjords. 
 

Im ready to make the jump to Celebrity for the bucket list cruises. Not honoring the drink vouchers is my biggest sticking point. Seems silly but that’s an incredible perk that’s hard to give up for a 2 hour happy hour with limited menu (just like the old Royal happy hour). It’s hard to go back to that! 
 

There’s no real incentive to go from Royal to Celebrity. Those celebrity captain’s club members get a sweet deal though coming to Royal. The only ones who get the better deal are Pinns going to Celebrity 

[b_resh_uh]

I'm with you @Jill . Smaller ports in more exotic Caribbean stops are what interest me and my family traveling from our home state of Florida. Celebrity already has that. But I'm hard-pressed to actually book unless C&A/Captains Club was one and the same. 

[Doug_Texas]

On 6/10/2024 at 6:09 PM, Jill said:

I agree with @twangster that what makes the most sense is utilizing the already smaller celebrity ships to the smaller ports. It just seems logical. We chose Apex over Indy to the fjords next year because Indy’s itineraries are not good. We wanted the deep fjords. 
 

Im ready to make the jump to Celebrity for the bucket list cruises. Not honoring the drink vouchers is my biggest sticking point. Seems silly but that’s an incredible perk that’s hard to give up for a 2 hour happy hour with limited menu (just like the old Royal happy hour). It’s hard to go back to that! 
 

There’s no real incentive to go from Royal to Celebrity. Those celebrity captain’s club members get a sweet deal though coming to Royal. The only ones who get the better deal are Pinns going to Celebrity 

I’m happy with the match program.  I will miss the 5 drink vouchers as this allows us to avoid the drinks package which is huge financially.  But I keep in mind that you get to move up from the mass market Royal / Carnival category to the premium Celebrity / Princess / Holland category.  There is value in the more upscale approach to food, service, and ports.

[JasonOasis]

On 6/10/2024 at 7:09 PM, Jill said:

I agree with @twangster that what makes the most sense is utilizing the already smaller celebrity ships to the smaller ports. It just seems logical. We chose Apex over Indy to the fjords next year because Indy’s itineraries are not good. We wanted the deep fjords. 
 

Im ready to make the jump to Celebrity for the bucket list cruises. Not honoring the drink vouchers is my biggest sticking point. Seems silly but that’s an incredible perk that’s hard to give up for a 2 hour happy hour with limited menu (just like the old Royal happy hour). It’s hard to go back to that! 
 

There’s no real incentive to go from Royal to Celebrity. Those celebrity captain’s club members get a sweet deal though coming to Royal. The only ones who get the better deal are Pinns going to Celebrity 

Judging from your post it appears as though status match is working as designed. 

What customers in our position (diamond plus) have to ask ourselves is what do we value more?  Do we value those drink vouchers more than ports of call. For me it depends on the cruise.  As you stated your decision to book Apex was based more so on the ports of call wanting to go to the deep fjords and that is what Royal is banking on. They don't want Royal customers to necessarily abandon Royal for Celebrity.  But for those bucket list type cruises non-pinnacle members do have to decide do we stick with Royal or do we go with Celebrity.  I agree with you for bucket list type cruises I most certainly will go with Celebrity.  I did my first Celebrity cruise this past March and without a doubt I would book with them again when I'm looking for a more upscale experience and for those bucket list cruises.  But if it's a weekend cruise or I just need a 7 night vacation/party cruise I'm sticking with Royal. 

[smokeybandit]

RC (group) needs to run a promo for a one time deal where you can sail either of the other two lines and accrue points for your preferred line.

[Jill]

12 hours ago, JasonOasis said:

Judging from your post it appears as though status match is working as designed. 

What customers in our position (diamond plus) have to ask ourselves is what do we value more?  Do we value those drink vouchers more than ports of call. For me it depends on the cruise.  As you stated your decision to book Apex was based more so on the ports of call wanting to go to the deep fjords and that is what Royal is banking on. They don't want Royal customers to necessarily abandon Royal for Celebrity.  But for those bucket list type cruises non-pinnacle members do have to decide do we stick with Royal or do we go with Celebrity.  I agree with you for bucket list type cruises I most certainly will go with Celebrity.  I did my first Celebrity cruise this past March and without a doubt I would book with them again when I'm looking for a more upscale experience and for those bucket list cruises.  But if it's a weekend cruise or I just need a 7 night vacation/party cruise I'm sticking with Royal. 

That’s basically our plan. Once a year Caribbean go with Royal. Bucket list/Europe likely celebrity or some other line. Currently entertaining Atlas (which is fairly new) Iceland to Dublin 

[Doug_Texas]

On 6/20/2024 at 9:12 PM, Jill said:

That’s basically our plan. Once a year Caribbean go with Royal. Bucket list/Europe likely celebrity or some other line. Currently entertaining Atlas (which is fairly new) Iceland to Dublin 

Never heard of Atlas and after your post looked at the web site.  Looks like a Ritz-Carlton cruise concept.  Awesome!

[steverk]

Are we getting off topic here? I thought we were discussing Discovery of the Seas.

[Heymarco]

On 4/30/2024 at 12:28 PM, dr martini said:

Project Eagle that led to the voyager class started in 1995 and Voyager entered service in 99.  in that project the ship famously (infamously?) grew 40% from their first projected size. 

I remember on early Icon class calls they said they would not build anything bigger than Oasis Class and Icon would be more similar to Quantum in size but hold more people than Oasis. They sure didn't stick to that either!

[smokeybandit]

Dimension-wise, Icon isn't that much bigger than Oasis class. Just they maxed out (for now) the interior space to make it a 10% higher GT

[Zambia-Zaire]

Sound like the ship will be capable of sailing under alot of low-laying bridges at some of the more exotic & poplar locations/ports. Philly could one day be in play as one poster suggest. The Class of ship is rumored to be pretty wide, which help negate the issue of "Length & Height" concerns at many of these smaller ports. The reported width also helps, when considering, an increase number & more larger venues, than previous smaller class ships. I think I once suggest a mini-version of an Oasis Class Ship...if report is true that the ship will carry a wider berth. Obviously, is would be where its gross tonnage will derive from. 8 of these ships would completely replace the 4 Vision Class & 4 Radiance Class ships; and, could very replace ports that these ships currently home port, like New Orleans, Tampa, Baltimore, Boston, the Middle East, and could add new home ports like on the West Coast, Charlotte, Philly, San Juan, dare I say it, a permanent flagged ship in Hawaii. The potential are there...which what I've been suggesting, for a long time now. 

[steverk]

1 hour ago, Zambia-Zaire said:

 dare I say it, a permanent flagged ship in Hawaii. The potential are there...which what I've been suggesting, for a long time now. 

I like your thought process, but Hawaii probably isn't in the cards. 

That would require a ship built in the USA and to follow all US gambling, tax and labor laws.  NCL has a ship doing this, and it hasn't been the success they hoped for.  In fact, they canceled the second ship they hoped to station there.

Here's a pretty good video on the story 

 

[Southern Dan]

A port in Charlotte might prove difficult considering how far inland it is…

[Rackham]

3 hours ago, Zambia-Zaire said:

Sound like the ship will be capable of sailing under alot of low-laying bridges at some of the more exotic & poplar locations/ports. Philly could one day be in play as one poster suggest. The Class of ship is rumored to be pretty wide, which help negate the issue of "Length & Height" concerns at many of these smaller ports. 

I hadn't heard the width comment before, but that got me curious. Assuming Neopanamax sizing, so Royal can use the canal to reposition, this would mean a width up to 51.25 meters (168.14 feet). Current RCCL ship class widths from Wikipedia...

Vision ..... 32m (106 ft)
Radiance ..... 32.2 m (105.6 ft)
Voyager ..... 48.01 m (157.50 ft)
Freedom ..... 38.6 m (126 ft 8 in) waterline; 56.0 m (183 ft 8 in) bridge wings
Quantum ..... 41.2 m (135 ft 2) waterline; 48.9 m (160 ft 5 in) maximum
Quantum Ultra ..... 41.39 m (135 ft 10 in) waterline; 49.39 m (162 ft 0 in) maximum
Icon ..... 48.47 m (159.0 ft)
Oasis ..... 47 m (154 ft 2 in) waterline; 64.9 m (213 ft) maximum

A series of quick searches yields the following max heights out of water for passing under select bridges...

Sunshine Skyway Bridge, Tampa Bay ..... 180 ft
Francis Scott Key Bridge, Baltimore ..... 185 ft
Lions Gate Bridge, Vancouver ..... 188 ft at high tide
Bridge of the Americas, Panama ..... 190 ft 

Radiance class's air draft (height above the waterline) is apparently 172.3 ft.

So Discovery class could be as wide as Icon with the air draft of Radiance. Interesting.

Edit: I did a very quick edit of Brilliance next to Wonder from CoCo Cay to illustrate what a Radiance class ship would look like with extra girth. Brilliance's width has been scaled to match Wonder's at the waterline.

Edited Sunday at 07:57 PM by Rackham

[Zambia-Zaire]

36 minutes ago, Southern Dan said:

A port in Charlotte might prove difficult considering how far inland it is…

LoL....I meant Charleston

[Zambia-Zaire]

1 hour ago, steverk said:

I like your thought process, but Hawaii probably isn't in the cards. 

That would require a ship built in the USA and to follow all US gambling, tax and labor laws.  NCL has a ship doing this, and it hasn't been the success they hoped for.  In fact, they canceled the second ship they hoped to station there.

 

 

NCL still cruise out Honolulu dude, always had been, even after the covid years....it is far from Bankrupt. If Royal wanted to, they could flag the ship and do exclusive, year-round cruises around the Hawaiian Islands.

[steverk]

5 hours ago, Zambia-Zaire said:

NCL still cruise out Honolulu dude, always had been, even after the covid years....it is far from Bankrupt.

Pride of America does sail from Honolulu and probably will until it is scrapped.  However, NCL America did declare bankruptcy. 

It may come as a surprise, but going bankrupt doesn't necessarily mean the company ceases to exist or operate.  In fact, some notable companies that have gone bankrupt and then emerged include General Motors, American Airlines, Ashley Stewart, Kodak and Delta Airlines. There are many more.

5 hours ago, Zambia-Zaire said:

If Royal wanted to, they could flag the ship and do exclusive, year-round cruises around the Hawaiian Islands.

I'm not going to disagree that Royal could do this.  However, it isn't as easy as it seems. 

The ship would need to be US flagged. That means the ship needs to be built in the United States.  The USA has several shipyards, but they build ships for the US Navy or small coastal vessels.  Building a state of the art cruise ship would mean developing supply lines and expertise that simply doesn't exist in the US.  Developing or importing it is cost prohibitive.

Further, the point of the video I posted is that the Hawaii market just isn't as big as you would expect. NCL was unable to make it work for more than 1 ship.  

Will Royal Caribbean try to outdo NCL in Hawaii?  I wish they would (Pride of America is a pretty crappy ship), but I don't see it happening.

Perhaps the PVSA will be revised or repealed to allow foreign ships to do Hawaii cruises.  That might entice Royal Caribbean Group to enter the market, but once again, don't count on it.