Oasis / Atlantis Cruise

[jeffmw]

This is, apparently, what's happening on the Oasis right now, where there is currently a chartered cruise.

I'll be the first to admit I don't know much about the regulations or economics of chartered cruises, who's in control, etc., but with all the problems going on with infected staff and having to cancel sailings, why would they allow this right now, as it clearly endangers upcoming sailings?

(I want to be very clear that absolutely not one ounce of my sentiment here has anything to do with the fact that this is a gay cruise. I have nothing but full support and love for the LGBTQ community and events like this, which I'm sure are a blast.)  

I also found a post on Twitter saying that Atlantis (the folks chartering the cruise) are encouraging cruisers not to post on social media -- likely for exactly this reason, as it could potentially reflect badly on both RC and the LGBTQ community.

 

[jeffmw]

In case you're interested, here's a NYT article about the cruise:

Most notable: Part of the problem is that Atlantis (unlike Royal) is not allowing cancellations, so many of these people are choosing to go rather than lose $ thousands. 

The article also says, "While the company does not offer refunds, it says that the health and safety of its guests is a top priority and it will be enforcing Royal Caribbean’s health and safety protocols, which includes a mask mandate indoors except while eating and drinking and in crowded spaces outdoors."

That seems to have gone out the window!

[Reigert2008]

What is the source for this image? Accoring to the Atlantis Events site, there is talk of COVID19 capacity restrictions, so it's be interesting to know if this is a current photo or if someone is trying to put cruising into a bad light by providing false information.

 

Here's the link to the site --  https://atlantisevents.com/Oasis-Caribbean-Cruise

on the pricing page, there is is this as well.

[jeffmw]

4 minutes ago, Reigert2008 said:

What is the source for this image?

I thought the same at first, but it does appear to be legitimate. You can find more photos on various social platforms. And there definitely is an Atlantis cruise going on right now on Oasis. 

[Fox Forlenza]

As a member of this community, I am not surprised in the least.  That's absolutely insane.

Also, it appears this is current photo.  I can see from the photo by zooming in some people are wearing masks.

[Reigert2008]

I  still want to believe that it is a "stock photo" from an old event.  Maybe @Matthas a resource that he can reach out to for comment or information.

 

[smokeybandit]

If that's a current photo, then this is a fantastic case study opportunity

[Cruisin and Boozin]

I thought that chartered  cruise was next week

[WAAAYTOOO]

7 minutes ago, Cruisin and Boozin said:

I thought that chartered  cruise was next week

Nope.  The Atlantis chartered cruise is this week.  I know b/c I was originally booked on a B3B on Oasis, with this cruise being the middle cruise.  I was wondering if this cruise actually sailed and it appears that it has.

[Tim J]

I am starting 4 b2b on oasis next Sunday. This is the first I have heard of the charter

[ChrisK2793]

I Just googled it ….. it’s this week ….. says there’s “5,500 guys” and that it’s “Sold Out” 

 

[S. Noble]

1 hour ago, Reigert2008 said:

I  still want to believe that it is a "stock photo" from an old event.  Maybe @Matthas a resource that he can reach out to for comment or information.

 

There is a private Facebook group for this sailing. I joined the group a few days ago to see what people say about how the cruise goes, whether they miss any port calls or not, etc.

Some photos posted there today look like the same crowd, same day. I also had hoped that this was a pre-Covid photo but it looks like it's the current sailing. I would say it's likely since the NYT article indicates they are sailing with 4,700 guests. 

Increased guest numbers over holiday sailings led to cancellations of subsequent cruises, it seems. I am sailing on Oasis in a few weeks and I really hope we won't be affected by the case-count aftermath of this. 

If it is true that Atlantis' policy was nonrefundable cancellation: shame on Atlantis. Tone deaf policy in this era.  

 

 

[Fox Forlenza]

I'd just like to also point out, wearing masks in that environment wasn't really gonna help out at all.  There was never going to be social distancing on that ship as that style cruise is not geared towards people distancing at all if you catch my drift.

[PG Cruiser]

From the photo it looks like there are (a lot of) people on the Aqua Theater stage.  I thought stages were off limits to guests even before COVID!

[Baked Alaska]

If you look in the back on one of the Aqua Suite Balconies, there are a few people wearing masks on their faces. I do believe that is a current picture.

[ChrisK2793]

2 hours ago, Baked Alaska said:

If you look in the back on one of the Aqua Suite Balconies, there are a few people wearing masks on their faces. I do believe that is a current picture.

You’re 100% correct 

 

 

[MattG]

I'm more impressed at the engineering of the Aquatheatre stage - they let THAT many people on there? That's amazing! 

I'm also wondering how that many passengers affects displacement or load on the ship. 

[Matt]

The Atlantis group has a very checkered past with their charters, with people dieing on sailings in the past.

That being said, while I would not think this is a good thing to do at all, here's another great example of the double standard cruise lines face.  

Large unmasked grouping outside is a problem?

Disney World recently

Bills vs Pats game last weekend

WWE Monday Night Raw earlier this week INDOORS

 

[Fox Forlenza]

Yup, there is a double standard for the cruise industry and it sucks.

But... you can't trace a positive case back to the theme parks, WWE event, or NFL game; at least not with any certainty.  They have that major advantage over cruises.

[Kathleen]

We were on Oasis last week and our Genie told us that Atlantis is bringing all their own entertainment and even customer service agents. RC was adding an additional 250 staff to the ship to accommodate the additional guest counts as well as long hours the chartered cruise keeps!! The problem with charters is they pay a certain amount to charter the whole ship and the promoter must sell so much to break even or profit. Promoters, unlike RC are not in it for the long haul, instead they must profit to move on to the next big festival and profit. Hence, unfortunately, they must pack the ship as seen in the picture. I feel for the staff who must be around so many people. I know that if they get Covid, two weeks away greatly impacts the money they make when they depend on the tips. Families at home count on most of them. Here's to hoping the staff remains healthy and it doesn't impact the next few cruises on Oasis. We had such a fabulous cruise last week that I hope those that follow continue to have the same experience. 

[Matt]

56 minutes ago, FF86 said:

But... you can't trace a positive case back to the theme parks, WWE event, or NFL game; at least not with any certainty.  They have that major advantage over cruises.

Totally true. But it's worth reminding non-cruisers of this double standard when brought up.

[S. Noble]

@Kathleen Thanks for sharing about your conversation with your genie. I am glad to know that Atlantis brings a lot of their own staff; this is a key thing I was wondering about. Hopefully that will mean minimal impact to RCCL crew. 

[tonyfsu21]

8 hours ago, MattG said:

I'm more impressed at the engineering of the Aquatheatre stage - they let THAT many people on there? That's amazing! 

I'm also wondering how that many passengers affects displacement or load on the ship. 

I would guess if you could get past the impossible feat of fitting 5000 passengers in the aquatheatre it would have little to no affect on that monsters displacement. 

[MattG]

17 hours ago, tonyfsu21 said:

I would guess if you could get past the impossible feat of fitting 5000 passengers in the aquatheatre it would have little to no affect on that monsters displacement. 

Atlantis has entered the chat

"Hold my martini..."

[smokeybandit]

18 hours ago, tonyfsu21 said:

I would guess if you could get past the impossible feat of fitting 5000 passengers in the aquatheatre it would have little to no affect on that monsters displacement. 

[Zurc]

Thinking that the difference b/t this outdoor crowding and those at football game, is the effect it could have over a week’s time on the assigned waitstaff, stateroom attendant, bar staff, etc. on this cruise.    

A crowd at a football game doesn’t Interact every day for a week with a team’s football players, coaching staff, training staff.  (But I can’t say the same for a theme park as some families may stay in hotels there for a week! ). 

Hoping Oasis’ crew stays CoVid free , for their health, and for those of you cruising on her soon!

 

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by Zurc
Added

[Reigert2008]

27 minutes ago, Zurc said:

Thinking that the difference b/t this outdoor crowding and those at football game, is the effect it could have over a week’s time on the assigned waitstaff, stateroom attendant, bar staff, etc. on this cruise.    

A crowd at a football game doesn’t Interact every day for a week with a team’s football players, coaching staff, training staff.  (But I can’t say the same for a theme park as some families may stay in hotels there for a week! ). 

Hoping Oasis’ crew stays CoVid free , for their health, and for those of you cruising on her soon!

 

 

I agree, i really think the concern on the board is largely for the crew and thier safety, closely followed by how it could affect peoples cruises on the Oasis in the next few weeks.  

Overall, it's really a bad look for the Royal.  You'd think they would have limited capacity more, dropped the price for the 3rd party, or some combination of both.  Time will tell if it comes back to haunt us all.

[jeffmw]

I did some very rough math to see how much of a difference this even makes.

Somewhere online I found an anecdotal number that the largest cruise ships in the world (of which Oasis is obviously one) have a displacement tonnage of around 100,000 tons. Displacement tonnage, I believe, is the actual weight of the ship, not to be confused with gross tonnage, which actually is a measure of volume.  

If you took 5,000 people weighing 200 pounds each, that's 1 million pounds, or 500 tons. 

Which means, on any given cruise, the guests represent less than 1/2 of a percent of the weight of the ship. 

More rough math.... It seems the Aquatheater takes up about the final 1/9th of the ship lengthwise. If the weight was equally distributed throughout the length of the ship (which it's not, but let's just say it is), then the final section would weigh ~11,000 tons. 

Which means, by putting 5,000 people on the back of the boat, you're only increasing the mass of that section of the boat by ~4%.

None of this is reliable math, but it shows that, there's basically nothing the people on these boats can do to noticeably affect its balance. This differs from airplanes, where weight distribution even on larger jets is often very important. 

[Fox Forlenza]

5 minutes ago, jeffmw said:

I did some very rough math to see how much of a difference this even makes, and it's exactly what you'd think.

I absolutely love that you did the math.

[PG Cruiser]

10 minutes ago, jeffmw said:

I did some very rough math to see how much of a difference this even makes, and it's exactly what you'd think.

Somewhere online I found an anecdotal number that the largest cruise ships in the world (of which Oasis is obviously one) weigh "well over 200,000 tons." This appears to refer to gross tonnage, which is essentially a measurement of volume rather than mass, so I'd have to do some more digging to understand the relationship.

However, if you took 5,000 people weighing 200 pounds each, that's 1 million pounds, or 500 tons. 

Which means, on any given cruise, the guests represent less than 1/4 of a percent of the weight of the ship. 

More rough math.... It seems the Aquatheater takes up about the final 1/9th of the ship lengthwise. If the weight was equally distributed throughout the length of the ship (which it's not, but let's just say it is), then the final section would weigh ~22,000 tons. 

Which means, by putting 5,000 people on the back of the boat, you're only increasing the mass of that section of the boat by ~2%!

None of this is reliable math, but it shows that, in general, the people on the boat are virtually weightless. There's basically nothing the people on these boats can do to even remotely affect its balance. This differs from airplanes, where weight distribution even on larger jets is often very important. 

 

 

Simply put... we can't rock the boat (or ship)

[jeffmw]

19 minutes ago, PG Cruiser said:

Simply put... we can't rock the boat (or ship)

See my original post. I redid my math based on the approximate mass of the ship vs. gross tonnage, which isn't the right unit. Either way, it's still isn't going to 'rock' at all. 

[Reigert2008]

The article linked below states they confirmed a death onboard the Oasis with Atlantis Events.  Atlantis then referred them to Royal for the cause of death.  
 

https://www.advocate.com/news/2022/1/21/death-reported-onboard-atlantis-events-oasis-seas-cruise

 

“A death has been confirmed aboard Atlantis Events' 30th Anniversary Cruise on Royal Caribbean's Oasis of the Seas.

The Advocate has confirmed the death with Atlantis Events. While a representative said the death was "nothing out of the ordinary," they referred The Advocate to Royal Caribbean for comment on cause of death.”

[TXcruzer]

13 hours ago, Reigert2008 said:

The article linked below states they confirmed a death onboard the Oasis with Atlantis Events.  Atlantis then referred them to Royal for the cause of death.  
 

https://www.advocate.com/news/2022/1/21/death-reported-onboard-atlantis-events-oasis-seas-cruise

 

“A death has been confirmed aboard Atlantis Events' 30th Anniversary Cruise on Royal Caribbean's Oasis of the Seas.

The Advocate has confirmed the death with Atlantis Events. While a representative said the death was "nothing out of the ordinary," they referred The Advocate to Royal Caribbean for comment on cause of death.”

There is a death, it seems, every year.  It is almost always a drug overdose. (there was a jumper one year)

[smokeybandit]

53 minutes ago, TXcruzer said:

There is a death, it seems, every year.  It is almost always a drug overdose. (there was a jumper one year)

The article said this wasn't a drug death.

[Matt]

Whatever the reason, there's a death every year on these charters. It's incredible Royal continues to allow this group to sail with them given that track record.

[Baked Alaska]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

Whatever the reason, there's a death every year on these charters. It's incredible Royal continues to allow this group to sail with them given that track record.

Kinda like a mystery movie. "By the end of this sailing, at least one of you will be dead." Cue Vincent Price.

[SeanOfTheSeas]

On 1/18/2022 at 12:18 PM, jeffmw said:

In case you're interested, here's a NYT article about the cruise:

Most notable: Part of the problem is that Atlantis (unlike Royal) is not allowing cancellations, so many of these people are choosing to go rather than lose $ thousands. 

The article also says, "While the company does not offer refunds, it says that the health and safety of its guests is a top priority and it will be enforcing Royal Caribbean’s health and safety protocols, which includes a mask mandate indoors except while eating and drinking and in crowded spaces outdoors."

That seems to have gone out the window!

Let me try to clear up a few things.  I’ve been an Atlantis guest for the last 6 years, taking at least one cruise per year.  My last one was this past November…

On my November cruise, the ship’s staff was 100% vaccinated plus negative on Covid testing.  We, the guests, were required to take a Covid test (from a lab, no instant at home test) 72 hours before the cruise.  Then, we were required to test negative with an instant test by the cruise line before we were allowed to board the ship.  So 100% of the ship was vaxed AND negative at the start of the cruise loop.  This is why we were allowed to go around unmasked.  I’m sure this RCCL cruise had the same rules, I would think.

Second, it is true that Atlantis doesn’t allow cancellations when it is close to sailing time.  There IS a refunds time table that they honor. So guests that cancel early on, are not out the entire cost - this is fair, people.  If I reserved a room that means someone else cannot reserve it for the 9 months that I held it for; to put the room back out into the pool of availability puts a higher risk of loss to the company as it won’t guarantee a last minute guest will book it 3 days before the cruise starts.   Atlantis is a small LLC company owned by one person.  RCCL is a huge company with huge optics.  We shouldn’t be comparing apples to apples here.   We need to keep in mind that ALTANTIS EVENTS is an event planner.  

They don’t allow late game cancellation because they must provision all the materials for the cruise and can’t get money back for unused provisions.  If you plan a wedding and you order a huge cake for 200 people, but only 120 people show up, you can’t return the unused portion.  Even if you could, it would be extra time wasted on your part to have to coordinate.  We need to keep in mind that people are flakey.  If Atlantis allowed everyone to cancel for whatever reason, the full chartered ship would only sail half full every time.  So I don’t feel sorry for anyone who changes his mind or has an event happen. Booking an expensive vacation is a commitment and an money investment.  It’s spelled out very clear in the contract terms, and I know by my sign up that I take a certain risk.  Those who want to be eligible for full refunds should purchase the insurance for “cancel for any reason” and stop trying to blame Atlantis Events for his poor planning or poor understanding. 

[SeanOfTheSeas]

On 1/22/2022 at 11:48 AM, Matt said:

Whatever the reason, there's a death every year on these charters. It's incredible Royal continues to allow this group to sail with them given that track record.

Death on cruise ships is common. There are morgues on all modern cruise ships for a reason.  

Atlantis doesn’t condone drugs - I know, I’ve been on 7 cruises with them.  They cannot control their adult guests any more than a non-charter population.  

[SeanOfTheSeas]

On 1/20/2022 at 12:03 PM, jeffmw said:

I did some very rough math to see how much of a difference this even makes.

Somewhere online I found an anecdotal number that the largest cruise ships in the world (of which Oasis is obviously one) have a displacement tonnage of around 100,000 tons. Displacement tonnage, I believe, is the actual weight of the ship, not to be confused with gross tonnage, which actually is a measure of volume.  

If you took 5,000 people weighing 200 pounds each, that's 1 million pounds, or 500 tons. 

Which means, on any given cruise, the guests represent less than 1/2 of a percent of the weight of the ship. 

More rough math.... It seems the Aquatheater takes up about the final 1/9th of the ship lengthwise. If the weight was equally distributed throughout the length of the ship (which it's not, but let's just say it is), then the final section would weigh ~11,000 tons. 

Which means, by putting 5,000 people on the back of the boat, you're only increasing the mass of that section of the boat by ~4%.

None of this is reliable math, but it shows that, there's basically nothing the people on these boats can do to noticeably affect its balance. This differs from airplanes, where weight distribution even on larger jets is often very important. 

Atlantis Events has been booking these mega ships since they existed.  Believe me, they would have found out if gathering 5500 adult MEN (Men generally weigh more than women) in the aqua theatre.  There are acrobats (Air-o-tic) that perform above the crowd too…One of them would have fallen off the balance beam if it make a big difference, I would think. 

[SeanOfTheSeas]

On 1/20/2022 at 11:55 AM, Reigert2008 said:

I agree, i really think the concern on the board is largely for the crew and thier safety, closely followed by how it could affect peoples cruises on the Oasis in the next few weeks.  

Overall, it's really a bad look for the Royal.  You'd think they would have limited capacity more, dropped the price for the 3rd party, or some combination of both.  Time will tell if it comes back to haunt us all.

This cruise charter was sold out a year in advance.  The 3rd Party and RCCL probably didn’t anticipate we would still be in Covid so deeply…