Carnival Extends COVID Protocols Through February 2022

[GKMCruising]

https://www.cruisehive.com/carnival-cruise-line-extends-protocols-through-february-2022/57511

 

Will be interesting to see if Royal and Norwegian follow suit, or if they choose to keep evaluating and updating more frequently as the year draws to a close.

[smokeybandit]

Which probably means the CSO gets extended through Feb 2022

[twangster]

There's no way the CDC is ready to let go like the virus isn't still with us.

[GKMCruising]

3 minutes ago, twangster said:

There's no way the CDC is ready to let go like the virus isn't still with us.

Agreed. I fully expect more CDC guidance, and I'm perfectly fine with it, as long as cruising can continue safely. Small price to pay to be back on board.

[JasonOasis]

24 minutes ago, twangster said:

There's no way the CDC is ready to let go like the virus isn't still with us.

As long as the CDC does not attempt to once again over step their authority and do something drastic I think the industry will be okay.  The cruise lines have demonstrated they can operate safely during a pandemic.  They were scapegoated early on in this pandemic, shut down, held to a higher standard than any form of land based vacation yet this industry has risen to meet the challenge.  At this point the CDC needs to just leave the cruise industry alone and let people enjoy their cruise vacation.

[GKMCruising]

4 minutes ago, JasonOasis said:

As long as the CDC does not attempt to once again over step their authority and do something drastic I think the industry will be okay.  The cruise lines have demonstrated they can operate safely during a pandemic.  They were scapegoated early on in this pandemic, shut down, held to a higher standard than any form of land based vacation yet this industry has risen to meet the challenge.  At this point the CDC needs to just leave the cruise industry alone and let people enjoy their cruise vacation.

I think the shutdown was needed at the very beginning, maybe a couple of months, simply to allow time for cruise lines to figure out protocols. However, it should have been the cruise lines working *with* the CDC to restart as soon as possible, not having to work *against* the CDC.

[cruisellama]

I think the industry is in the "cooperate & graduate" mode.   Volunteer to be a "good citizen" and maybe the conditional restrictions are eased.   

[Matt]

55 minutes ago, GKMCruising said:

Agreed. I fully expect more CDC guidance, and I'm perfectly fine with it, as long as cruising can continue safely. Small price to pay to be back on board.

 

12 minutes ago, cruisellama said:

I think the industry is in the "cooperate & graduate" mode.   Volunteer to be a "good citizen" and maybe the conditional restrictions are eased.   

I agree with both of these statements

[smokeybandit]

If the CSO disappeared today the majority of the protocols would stay.

 

But there are plenty that are obsolete and useless that would go away pretty fast (and would have to in order to get capacities back up to near normal)

[fireclan]

7 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

If the CSO disappeared today the majority of the protocols would stay.

 

But there are plenty that are obsolete and useless that would go away pretty fast (and would have to in order to get capacities back up to near normal)

Any ideas about which protocols would be changed or cancelled? And I'm curious about the capacity limits - I've read posts on here where the passenger count seemed to be as low as 17% yet others at 30-40% - how is that determined I wonder?

[smokeybandit]

IMO the biggest rules to go would be in the areas of food service and physical distancing

[Matt]

23 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

If the CSO disappeared today the majority of the protocols would stay.

 

But there are plenty that are obsolete and useless that would go away pretty fast (and would have to in order to get capacities back up to near normal)

I agree, like the single piece of plastic in front of the pub singer/schooner bar player.

[twangster]

If the CDC wasn't so slow to react and lethargic the protocols could be more dynamic.  While we are in a period of low transmission take down the plastic shields or face masks for vaccinated.  If a new variant comes along and actually begins to show impact, reintroduce protocols as required.  

But I digress.  

[Ampurp85]

I think RCG will keep protocols as is until at least the spring break sailings. Don't think they will do away with testing for a while, I believe the mask will go first. I can see the CSO extended until Jan 31st.

[smokeybandit]

19 minutes ago, Matt said:

I agree, like the single piece of plastic in front of the pub singer/schooner bar player.

Even the CDC has said plexiglass barriers aren't worth it anymore.

[GKMCruising]

37 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

IMO the biggest rules to go would be in the areas of food service and physical distancing

I know Royal is currently planning to keep Windjammer full-service instead of self-service even after COVID, but I definitely think they'd ditch having the drink dispensers and whatnot being staffed.

I also agree with ditching the physical distancing - at higher capacities, there's going to be a major logjam for tables and seating in a lot of venues with the amount of areas currently blocked off.

[GKMCruising]

28 minutes ago, twangster said:

If the CDC wasn't so slow to react and lethargic the protocols could be more dynamic.  While we are in a period of low transmission take down the plastic shields or face masks for vaccinated.  If a new variant comes along and actually begins to show impact, reintroduce protocols as required.  

But I digress.  

Exactly. Some of the protocols are obviously more cumbersome to adjust quickly, but the masks/plexiglass/etc are things that could be easily turned on and off, for lack of a better phrase.

[GKMCruising]

29 minutes ago, Ampurp85 said:

I think RCG will keep protocols as is until at least the spring break sailings. Don't think they will do away with testing for a while, I believe the mask will go first. I can see the CSO extended until Jan 31st.

I'd definitely rather see the masks go before the testing. It's way less inconvenience for me to go get a quick nose swab before boarding than to have a mask on in all public spaces for an entire week.

[smokeybandit]

6 minutes ago, GKMCruising said:

I know Royal is currently planning to keep Windjammer full-service instead of self-service even after COVID,

THat'll stay as a cost savings measure (food waste) more so than a covid mitigation measure.

[twangster]

26 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

THat'll stay as a cost savings measure (food waste) more so than a covid mitigation measure.

I'm okay with that.  I've seen way too many guests drop the handle of a serving utensil into the food contaminating the whole tray or reach in with bare hands, touch something then put it back.

In some cases the cough shields are so low you have to be double jointed to access the food.  

Safer all around to have dedicated servers dispense food at a buffet.  Even without a pandemic.  

[GKMCruising]

31 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

THat'll stay as a cost savings measure (food waste) more so than a covid mitigation measure.

Definitely a cost savings measure first and a COVID/norovirus prevention measure second.

3 minutes ago, twangster said:

I'm okay with that.  I've seen way too many guests drop the handle of a serving utensil into the food contaminating the whole tray or reach in with bare hands, touch something then put it back.

In some cases the cough shields are so low you have to be double jointed to access the food.  

Safer all around to have dedicated servers dispense food at a buffet.  Even without a pandemic.  

Yup. Not on Royal, obviously, but I've seen little kids literally sticking their hands into a chocolate fountain at a buffet before. Needless to say, I didn't have much of an appetite for dessert after that.

[jticarruthers]

2 hours ago, fireclan said:

Any ideas about which protocols would be changed or cancelled? And I'm curious about the capacity limits - I've read posts on here where the passenger count seemed to be as low as 17% yet others at 30-40% - how is that determined I wonder?

I dont think royal is hitting their capacity limits so the 30-40 is what they are capping at, the 17 is more what they are actually getting.

The last 2 cruises i have been on (boarding # 3 in a few minutes) have been "selling" cabins a day or two before sailing still ...

[steverk]

2 hours ago, Ampurp85 said:

I can see the CSO extended until Jan 31st.

I'm horribly cynical! I don't think the CDC will let go until forced. Here's hoping I'm wrong!

[GKMCruising]

9 minutes ago, steverk said:

I'm horribly cynical! I don't think the CDC will let go until forced. Here's hoping I'm wrong!

I think what *should* happen is that the CDC agrees to end their involvement on the condition that cases onboard stay below a certain threshold. If they start seeing high cases numbers, they should reserve the right to intervene again but only on a ship-by-ship basis. No sense in the sins and mistakes of one line or ship ruining it for the rest of the fleets that are trying to do the right things.

[smokeybandit]

The CDC is probably disappointed there have been basically zero cases on cruise ships

[steverk]

18 minutes ago, GKMCruising said:

I think what *should* happen is that the CDC agrees to end their involvement on the condition that cases onboard stay below a certain threshold. If they start seeing high cases numbers, they should reserve the right to intervene again but only on a ship-by-ship basis. No sense in the sins and mistakes of one line or ship ruining it for the rest of the fleets that are trying to do the right things.

I agree that's what should happen,  and I hope it does. I  just don't feel confident about it  

[BrianB]

I think the CDC will extend the CSO…especially with the winter months coming up. But hopefully they will adjust protocols as cases drop…or even remain stable…aboard ships. Even with Norwegian having fully vaccinated guests and crew, so far all of their ships sailing with passengers are either orange or yellow on the CDC chart. It’s obvious that cases will happen aboard ships. And so far, the cruise lines appear to be successfully applying their health protocols. Those actions seem to be a big part of keeping this under control. I’ll take the inconvenience of the protocols for as long as necessary to keep cruising. For me, they are secondary to being back at sea; back aboard beautiful ships; back with friends; back with fantastic crew members and fantastic service. Can’t wait to board again!
 

[cruisellama]

3 hours ago, fireclan said:

Any ideas about which protocols would be changed or cancelled? And I'm curious about the capacity limits - I've read posts on here where the passenger count seemed to be as low as 17% yet others at 30-40% - how is that determined I wonder?

While the lines are limiting capacity to comply with gov't intent, some of the lower numbers might be due to a lack of qualified or enthusiastic passengers for a given date.  There is probably a good number of people who will not take a cruise, and/or  a number of people who won't make the vacation investment when there are restrictions in place.  So maybe some of those lower capacities are due to lack of available (willing) guests for a given cruise date.   I have a family members will cruise 2-4 times per month in normal times, but currently sitting things out because she deems the restrictions unacceptable.

[WAAAYTOOO]

5 minutes ago, cruisellama said:

While the lines are limiting capacity to comply with gov't intent, some of the lower numbers might be due to a lack of qualified or enthusiastic passengers for a given date.  There is probably a good number of people who will not take a cruise, and/or  a number of people who won't make the vacation investment when there are restrictions in place.  So maybe some of those lower capacities are due to lack of available (willing) guests for a given cruise date.   I have a family members will cruise 2-4 times per month in normal times, but currently sitting things out because she deems the restrictions unacceptable.

Don’t forget about those of us who want to cruise but are being prohibited.  …or maybe we are being included in your “…lack of qualified…”. 
 

[cruisellama]

8 minutes ago, WAAAYTOOO said:

Don’t forget about those of us who want to cruise but are being prohibited.  …or maybe we are being included in your “…lack of qualified…”. 

I didn't forget.  There are many who have health concerns that make getting the vax a higher risk - so  are out of the game for now.   I've been thinking about how long the "inventory" of those who meet requirements can be stretched to keep the industry viable.  If the pool of eligibles stays the same (or grows at a slower rate than available cabins), you have too many cabins chasing too few guests.  It will make  comfortable cruising for those who make it on-board,  but its not an efficient/profitable way to run and grow a business.   I guess we'll know if we see a slowing of restarts.   

[fireclan]

5 hours ago, WAAAYTOOO said:

Don’t forget about those of us who want to cruise but are being prohibited.  …or maybe we are being included in your “…lack of qualified…”. 
 

I am also in the "prohibited" group who will be forced to continue to cancel our cruises booked pre-mandates. Fortunately for us, I can cancel almost last minute for a refund but unfortunately for Royal, that leaves no time to fill the room. And thank you @cruisellama, "not qualified" is one of the nicer things a "prohibited" person like me has been called on this blog!

[Ampurp85]

My heart goes out to those who have to continually cancel and hope for the best. I agree that the "unqualified" and those who don't like the protocols are keeping capacity low. However, this is still better than no capacity. But I do think it is sustainable in a sense. Remember that lady with the blog and all the problems, well she was on a B2B times 3, 6 weeks on Symphony. I recall reading about a guy on here that is/was on Oasis for a whole month. How many of us booked multiple cruises for double points, or S2S because the deals were incredible. So RCG and other lines are getting decent bookings, just not pre-covid level. The protocols ensure that someone will be sailing and those sailings will be safe. 

CDC will be them until........infinity and beyond. They will extend the CSO and the lines will follow their guidance to avoid shutdown again. Those of us that can cruise under these circumstance, will. I think some changes like the staff-served buffet, C&A drink vouchers and enhanced app functions are here to stay. Mask will go away when the guidance changes but test might last well into 2022. Carnival is just being proactive with extending their protocols, RCG will do the same soon.....hence the 30 day change in FP for Jan cruises.

[CruiseGus]

22 hours ago, Ampurp85 said:

...... I think some changes like the staff-served buffet, C&A drink vouchers and enhanced app functions are here to stay......

All improvement in my opinion.

I also agree with most of the rest you have to say in your post.

[jticarruthers]

On 10/9/2021 at 6:28 PM, CruiseGus said:

All improvement in my opinion.

I also agree with most of the rest you have to say in your post.

The buffet is going to be an interesting one. I agree with liking the concept of no one else "handling" stuff ... but executing it is a bottleneck and its going to get worse as capacity increases.

 

 

[GKMCruising]

6 minutes ago, jticarruthers said:

The buffet is going to be an interesting one. I agree with liking the concept of no one else "handling" stuff ... but executing it is a bottleneck and its going to get worse as capacity increases.

It might be a slight bottleneck at first, but once everyone gets used to the change - both cruisers and crew - I think it'll run smoothly. Windjammer has always been a less-than-speedy process for getting food, at least in my opinion.

[jticarruthers]

2 hours ago, GKMCruising said:

It might be a slight bottleneck at first, but once everyone gets used to the change - both cruisers and crew - I think it'll run smoothly. Windjammer has always been a less-than-speedy process for getting food, at least in my opinion.

Not sure i agree but we will see, i think there are some real challenges with using a self service layout with full service.

For example, the "carving station" pods in the windjammer have a carving station at one end with two sets of serving dishes down the sides and 2-3 crew members in the middle. Frequently saw 6-8 people lined up along the sides all looking for service and the 2-3 crew frantically flipping from person to person trying to serve them all as quickly as possible. You cant fit more crew in the pod, possibly more structured line structure might help with limiting the # of passengers actively looking to be served but its not a great layout.

Also suspect that the reason they arent doing windjammer in the evening is that they dont have enough crew to staff the restaurants and provide "non self service" buffet option.

[Jill]

So I’d expect Royal to make an announcement soon. I’ve seen several Facebook posts of people getting emails about early 2022 cruises and their cabins being moved due to “distancing.” 

[GKMCruising]

5 minutes ago, Jill said:

So I’d expect Royal to make an announcement soon. I’ve seen several Facebook posts of people getting emails about early 2022 cruises and their cabins being moved due to “distancing.” 

Yeah, I've seen FB posts, a couple posts on here, and at least one or two on CC. They definitely need to clarify exactly what they're doing and why before people storm their offices with torches and pitchforks.

[smokeybandit]

On 10/11/2021 at 9:11 AM, GKMCruising said:

It might be a slight bottleneck at first, but once everyone gets used to the change - both cruisers and crew - I think it'll run smoothly. Windjammer has always been a less-than-speedy process for getting food, at least in my opinion.

But now instead of waiting for 10 people being indecisive about putting something on their plate, you'll have to wait for 5 staff to accommodate 10 people being indecisive about putting something on their plate.

[twangster]

36 minutes ago, Jill said:

So I’d expect Royal to make an announcement soon. I’ve seen several Facebook posts of people getting emails about early 2022 cruises and their cabins being moved due to “distancing.” 

31 minutes ago, GKMCruising said:

Yeah, I've seen FB posts, a couple posts on here, and at least one or two on CC. They definitely need to clarify exactly what they're doing and why before people storm their offices with torches and pitchforks.

 

Something is up.  CSO 2.0.