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Carnival Extends COVID Protocols Through February 2022


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3 minutes ago, AshleyDillo said:

Thought so too..nothing prior to Nov 1 is being messed with and it's affecting sailings through March and April.

I guess I should be glad I don't have any emotional attachment to my specific room on Wonder in March. No email yet, but clearly they didn't send them all out in one batch, so I'm not in the clear yet.

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11 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

I could totally see a new CSO that despite statistically 0 cases on ships, they come up with something more strict

Logic really hasn't had a lot to do with any CDC action so this would seem perfectly reasonable.

I'm just hoping they don't ask to demonstrate how to flood the ship in an emergency in order to "wash away covid".

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On 10/8/2021 at 1:09 PM, cruisellama said:

I didn't forget.  There are many who have health concerns that make getting the vax a higher risk - so  are out of the game for now.   I've been thinking about how long the "inventory" of those who meet requirements can be stretched to keep the industry viable.  If the pool of eligibles stays the same (or grows at a slower rate than available cabins), you have too many cabins chasing too few guests.  It will make  comfortable cruising for those who make it on-board,  but its not an efficient/profitable way to run and grow a business.   I guess we'll know if we see a slowing of restarts.   

Except that the population of those who are "qualified" will continue to grow at some rate, and the population of "unqualified" will continue to decrease at that same rate.  However, I do think the are claiming cruises are "capacity controlled" when in fact they are just not selling as many rooms as they would like.  I think all of the cruise lines are claiming that they would be able to sail with all ships full if allowed to, however I just do not believe that.  As for the rumors regarding rule changes, I really think we should waite until we actually know something before starting rumors.  They spread online faster than any factual information.

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On 10/14/2021 at 8:14 AM, Ampurp85 said:

I saw all the emails on FB, at first I thought it was just one ship. But it is across all the fleet so CSO 2.0 is looking like a go. 

It seems like maybe they have sold the sailings to a CDC-specified capacity and now have to reconfigure everything to comply.

Cruising on 11/1. Sad day.

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2 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

If the CDC is culling the herd on capacity, how long can the cruise lines sit there idly taking every beating the CDC continues to give them?

As long as they want to be sailing from the US.  And remember, it is a small, but vocal, portion of the cruising public that is looking at these things as bad, the vast majority welcome the safety protocols.

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16 minutes ago, MrMarc said:

As long as they want to be sailing from the US.  And remember, it is a small, but vocal, portion of the cruising public that is looking at these things as bad, the vast majority welcome the safety protocols.

There's a difference between bad and unnecessary though. Or necessary protocol dictated at an unnecessary threshold

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10 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

There's a difference between bad and unnecessary though. Or necessary protocol dictated at an unnecessary threshold

You are using your own definitions and ideas, assuming the entire CDC doesn't know what it is doing.  Many other people are doing the same.  The cruise lines are following the people they recognize as experts in the field, without any political agenda.  Nothing personal, but while I would certainly follow your advice on actual cruising issues, I would not on health issues.  I believe the cruise lines are doing the same thing.  Their own experts recommended the same basic protocols, in general, as the CDC.  I think the cruise lines are following the advice of people who actually are experts in this area and staying away from any political agenda.  They really cannot afford to go too far, too fast.  If people who cruise do not feel safe on the ships, they will not go.  I am fairly sure that the cruise lines are doing their own research into what their potential customers want.

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4 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Cruise lines follow the CDC because they have to. 

Otherwise they never would have stood up the Healthy Sail panel to come up with their own recommendations.

Its a fine line. Currently they do not have to follow the CSO BUT the cruise lines all want to avoid another shutdown. 

I know they have to appease the CDC but that is such a moving target with the goal posts moving every day

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28 minutes ago, MrMarc said:

You are using your own definitions and ideas, assuming the entire CDC doesn't know what it is doing.  Many other people are doing the same.  The cruise lines are following the people they recognize as experts in the field, without any political agenda.  Nothing personal, but while I would certainly follow your advice on actual cruising issues, I would not on health issues.  I believe the cruise lines are doing the same thing.  Their own experts recommended the same basic protocols, in general, as the CDC.  I think the cruise lines are following the advice of people who actually are experts in this area and staying away from any political agenda.  They really cannot afford to go too far, too fast.  If people who cruise do not feel safe on the ships, they will not go.  I am fairly sure that the cruise lines are doing their own research into what their potential customers want.

If one thing has been exposed is that there are no TRUE "experts" when it comes to a novel coronavirus. 

Back in May the Director of the CDC said vaccinated people do not spread the virus...guess what they do. She has been wrong on Covid MANY times. The CDC director went against her own "experts" regarding boosters recommendations and overruled them because that is what the WH and politics demanded. Top "Experts" in the FDA resigned over the booster shot issues. You can put your blind faith in CDC if you would like. 

And do you truly follow ALL the guidelines from the CDC "experts" in your day to day life?  

A BIG Issue is that the CDC is politically driven no matter what party is in control. 

The Cruise Lines are following whatever protocols they think will keep them sailing. The are in contact with CDC officials and those CDC officials are part of the political agenda that the WH sets for them

Cruise ship passengers can assess their own risk by reviewing cruise lines health protocols and determining whether they feel safe cruising without government oversight. Some of these protocols are causing cancellations and reduced bookings. People who booked cruises well in advance for late 2021 and early 2022 sailings did not anticipate that some of these protocols would be in place and unless certain protocols change, there will be more cancellations

There are current protocols in place that are purely Covid theater and have nothing to do with stopping the spread of Covid. Having someone fill my soda cup vs me filling my own cup at a freesytle machine does not protect me from Covid. 

Walking into a vaccinated designated dining room wearing a mask that i take off when I sit, does nothing to protect anyone from Covid.

I am all for protocols that are actually based on science and data, but unfortunately the cruise lines have to keep up the theater just to appease the CDC

IN 2 weeks we will see what happens to the CSO and how the cruise lines respond. 

 

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2 minutes ago, UNCFanatik said:

If one thing has been exposed is that there are no TRUE "experts" when it comes to a novel coronavirus. 

Back in May the Director of the CDC said vaccinated people do not spread the virus...guess what they do. She has been wrong on Covid MANY times. The CDC director went against her own "experts" regarding boosters recommendations and overruled them because that is what the WH and politics demanded. Top "Experts" in the FDA resigned over the booster shot issues. You can put your blind faith in CDC if you would like. 

And do you truly follow ALL the guidelines from the CDC "experts" in your day to day life?  

A BIG Issue is that the CDC is politically driven no matter what party is in control. 

The Cruise Lines are following whatever protocols they think will keep them sailing. The are in contact with CDC officials and those CDC officials are part of the political agenda that the WH sets for them

Cruise ship passengers can assess their own risk by reviewing cruise lines health protocols and determining whether they feel safe cruising without government oversight. Some of these protocols are causing cancellations and reduced bookings. People who booked cruises well in advance for late 2021 and early 2022 sailings did not anticipate that some of these protocols would be in place and unless certain protocols change, there will be more cancellations

There are current protocols in place that are purely Covid theater and have nothing to do with stopping the spread of Covid. Having someone fill my soda cup vs me filling my own cup at a freesytle machine does not protect me from Covid. 

Walking into a vaccinated designated dining room wearing a mask that i take off when I sit, does nothing to protect anyone from Covid.

I am all for protocols that are actually based on science and data, but unfortunately the cruise lines have to keep up the theater just to appease the CDC

IN 2 weeks we will see what happens to the CSO and how the cruise lines respond. 

 

Your entire premise is based on the fact that you determine what the science and data says, and the vast majority of experts that does not agree with you are wrong.  Are you going to say that you have no political agenda behind your opnion?  I agree 100% that you have the right to think and say that, just realize that a whole lot of people do not.

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2 minutes ago, MrMarc said:

Your entire premise is based on the fact that you determine what the science and data says, and the vast majority of experts that does not agree with you are wrong.  Are you going to say that you have no political agenda behind your opnion?  I agree 100% that you have the right to think and say that, just realize that a whole lot of people do not.

My premise is based on the fact that the CDC "experts" are driven more by politics than public health. And there lies the problem. 

I am driven by looking at the data over the course of the pandemic to see what has and has not been effective and not to keep repeating the same protocols that have shown to not affect the spread of Covid but instead strictly based on politics

And do you follow every CDC guideline/recommendation in your day to day life?

 

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34 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Only in Florida is the CSO optional. But no way they wouldn't follow it out of fear of what the CDC might do.

This is an assumption that a lot of people are making based on their views of the situation.  I have never seen any actual evidence that this is the case.  Can't you accept that there is a chance that the CDC and others are correct, and perhaps the cruise industry actually knows what it's doing without the political overlay?

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6 minutes ago, MrMarc said:

Your entire premise is based on the fact that you determine what the science and data says, and the vast majority of experts that does not agree with you are wrong.  Are you going to say that you have no political agenda behind your opnion?  I agree 100% that you have the right to think and say that, just realize that a whole lot of people do not.

Here is what the "experts" did during the pandemic that did nothing to stop the spread of Covid:

1. Close outdoor childrens playgrounds

2. Close beaches and public spaces. Its no wonder obesity increased during pandemic and come to found out that obesity is number 1 co-morbidity in covid deaths. But "experts" said to stay locked down inside

3. Install plexiglass in public spaces. Does nothing against an aerosolized virus

4. Recommended masks wearing outdoors. 

Just to name a few. So excuse me while I question these "experts" that you claim we should be showing undying devotion and faith in

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4 minutes ago, UNCFanatik said:

My premise is based on the fact that the CDC "experts" are driven more by politics than public health. And there lies the problem. 

I am driven by looking at the data over the course of the pandemic to see what has and has not been effective and not to keep repeating the same protocols that have shown to not affect the spread of Covid but instead strictly based on politics

And do you follow every CDC guideline/recommendation in your day to day life?

 

I am not sure that I follow them all, but in general I do.  My view of the situation is the exact opposite of yours.  I too have looked at the data, and I have been able to confirm that every single argument against the CDC that claims to be based on "science" actually is not.  Literally every one.  I have been able to confirm everything that supports masks, distancing and vaccines as either settled scientific fact, or at worst uncertainty that then errs on the side of caution.  I know we are turning this into a political argument and we should stop.  From my experience though, there is a vast silent majority that disagrees with you.  That doesn't mean you are wrong, just that a lot of people think you are.  And there is no question that majorities have been wrong.

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3 minutes ago, UNCFanatik said:

Here is what the "experts" did during the pandemic that did nothing to stop the spread of Covid:

1. Close outdoor childrens playgrounds

2. Close beaches and public spaces. Its no wonder obesity increased during pandemic and come to found out that obesity is number 1 co-morbidity in covid deaths. But "experts" said to stay locked down inside

3. Install plexiglass in public spaces. Does nothing against an aerosolized virus

4. Recommended masks wearing outdoors. 

Just to name a few. So excuse me while I question these "experts" that you claim we should be showing undying devotion and faith in

I am not going to argue with you, but you need to understand that things you are stating as facts are not.

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2 minutes ago, MrMarc said:

I am not sure that I follow them all, but in general I do.  My view of the situation is the exact opposite of yours.  I too have looked at the data, and I have been able to confirm that every single argument against the CDC that claims to be based on "science" actually is not.  Literally every one.  I have been able to confirm everything that supports masks, distancing and vaccines as either settled scientific fact, or at worst uncertainty that then errs on the side of caution.  I know we are turning this into a political argument and we should stop.  From my experience though, there is a vast silent majority that disagrees with you.  That doesn't mean you are wrong, just that a lot of people think you are.  And there is no question that majorities have been wrong.

Settled scientific fact? Is there even such a thing? Shouldnt science never be settled? That dangerous attitude stops any valid dissent and difference of opinion among scientists and leads to group think.  And there is quite the difference in science and doing things that err on the side of caution. 

Masks for instance....Japan has one of highest masks compliance in the world and their mask mandate did not stop the spike in covid cases around the Olympics and for all that Australia is doing, it STILL hasnt stopped the spread. You know why Zero Covid is a fantasy. SO I am curious how you have confirmed makes efficacy for example and how you think a flimsy cloth mask or neck gaiter protects ANYONE. 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, MrMarc said:

The response to that is so obvious, but please, let's just stop it.  We, and a lot of other people, disagree with each other.

You are the one urging us all the follow the same public health experts that rolled out these policies from the start that did nothing to stop the spread but you refuse to see why people question "experts". Just this past week the experts who told people with heart issues to take aspirin all these years now have said that they should stop in some cases. So excuse me to believe there is such a thing as "settled science"

 

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1 hour ago, UNCFanatik said:

Here is what the "experts" did during the pandemic that did nothing to stop the spread of Covid:

1. Close outdoor childrens playgrounds

2. Close beaches and public spaces. Its no wonder obesity increased during pandemic and come to found out that obesity is number 1 co-morbidity in covid deaths. But "experts" said to stay locked down inside

3. Install plexiglass in public spaces. Does nothing against an aerosolized virus

4. Recommended masks wearing outdoors. 

Just to name a few. So excuse me while I question these "experts" that you claim we should be showing undying devotion and faith in

Sorry but i have to call you some of the BS you spew

1. early on NO one know how this spread, so closing Playgrounds was a wise preemptive strategy.  They also closed all schools at the same time. Later we actual found out how it spread.

2. closing beaches made sense when without a vaccine we saw "College Age Kids" congregate with no social distancing and no mask wearing.

3 Actually the now common Plexiglass barriers seen at cashiers and banks do provide a block for the aerosol causing it to move in a different direction.  Total blockage NO but disbursal so it is not as concentrated YES

4. Ok  this one was wild but depending on your distance not a bad Idea.  Remember masks don't protect me the protect others.  How many scientific study using blue/black lighting to follow the aerosol do you have to see to know this is true.  A compete blockage NO, but effective in decreasing the viral load YES

 

59 minutes ago, UNCFanatik said:

Masks for instance....Japan has one of highest masks compliance in the world and their mask mandate did not stop the spike in covid cases around the Olympics and for all that Australia is doing, it STILL hasnt stopped the spread. You know why Zero Covid is a fantasy.

Japan, up lets bring people in from all over the world, tested or not and see we can prevent a rise in cases, Not unexpected.

Australia I will only say this.  "Cases and deaths per million
As of 8 September, Australia had recorded around 29 deaths per million people, a rate nearly four times lower than the global average of 114, according to the University of Oxford-backed ourworldindata.org website.

 

About the only VALID point you make is " Zero Covid is a fantasy "

 

ENJOY YOUR UPCOMING CRUISE

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1 hour ago, CruiseGus said:

Sorry but i have to call you some of the BS you spew

1. early on NO one know how this spread, so closing Playgrounds was a wise preemptive strategy.  They also closed all schools at the same time. Later we actual found out how it spread.

2. closing beaches made sense when without a vaccine we saw "College Age Kids" congregate with no social distancing and no mask wearing.

3 Actually the now common Plexiglass barriers seen at cashiers and banks do provide a block for the aerosol causing it to move in a different direction.  Total blockage NO but disbursal so it is not as concentrated YES

4. Ok  this one was wild but depending on your distance not a bad Idea.  Remember masks don't protect me the protect others.  How many scientific study using blue/black lighting to follow the aerosol do you have to see to know this is true.  A compete blockage NO, but effective in decreasing the viral load YES

 

Japan, up lets bring people in from all over the world, tested or not and see we can prevent a rise in cases, Not unexpected.

Australia I will only say this.  "Cases and deaths per million
As of 8 September, Australia had recorded around 29 deaths per million people, a rate nearly four times lower than the global average of 114, according to the University of Oxford-backed ourworldindata.org website.

 

About the only VALID point you make is " Zero Covid is a fantasy "

 

ENJOY YOUR UPCOMING CRUISE

The BS I spew? Interesting. Again you have proven my case

1. Closing playgrounds did not prevent spread of covid. There is no data that you can present that suggest it did

2. Closing beaches, even the ones that did not attract spring, did not prevent covid spread. Look up the transmission rate of chance of outdoor spread. Experts were wrong on this one

3. Plexiglass...   https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/19/well/live/coronavirus-restaurants-classrooms-salons.html

4. See point #2. Outdoor spread not primary driver of covid spread and chances are very low to spread outdoors. Riding a bike or joking outdoors while wearing masks does not prevent spread of covid. 

Japan peaked with Covid cases at the END of August. Olympics ended on august 8 AND no spectators were not allowed

also look at the rise of covid cases in singapore...another Asian country with high mask compliance and the rise of covid cases in October. 

Florida and Louisiana and Florida had same rise in covid cases late summer with LA with mask mandates and FL not having mask mandates. Results were the same. Maybe, NPIs do not work against raspatory virus as they will run their course. The best we can do is vaccination and stop the Covid theater  

 

Singapore rise in Covid:

 

 

sing.png

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1 hour ago, Canadian-Cruiser said:

Well in China they are aiming for covid zero and that's where royal caribbean wants to start once again. Will be interesting to see how RCG does in a country that adopts covid zero policies. CHina is a huge market for cruising and its unfortunate many Americans generally do not want to cruise from there and prefer constant bahamas cruises or constant Caribbean cruises week after week instead of considering say VIKING or Silversea or an enrichment luxury line in the Galapagos aka A small ship niche @cruisellama

@twangster @smokeybandit @JimD56 or even the upcoming 274 day world cruise which most Caribbean frequent cruisers who can afford numerous B2B's ; how they will cope in parts of the world where some things are referred to as 'theatre' so I guess it makes sense these cruisers only stick close to the cruise capital, and do caribbean week after week or month after month without being exposed to a global perspective in Oceania, Asia or China (not the vast majority of normal family cruisers who can only cruise once a year mot every month) and often times frequent caribbean cruisers rather than say having a world view on cruising and masks and so on have this idea of politics and CDC. No one refers to it as theatre in Canada either. @Vancity Cruiser @KWong 

Singapore is a huge cruise market too. Call it theatre what have you folks @UNCFanatik @MrMarc @JeffBbut in Singapore cruises have gone gone without a hitch and Singapore now mandates mask wearing OUTDOORS In society. Everyone complies unlike in Western world where everyone thinks CDC is political, if one lives in Asia old home @WAAAYTOOO for a year they can see many benefits without politicising everything that doesn't fit their narratives. Point being is cruise lines have done as well in Singapore and hong Kong and no one debates or politicians or calls things theatre, people just do and be content and are happy things are opening. Everyone is so used to masks even outdoors on the ship. Hard to find any non compliance unlike say I dunno the cruise capital of the world -___-?

SIngapore rise in Covid Cases. SO excuse me if I dont think what Singapore is doing is effective in stopping covid cases

 

sing.png

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16 hours ago, MrMarc said:

This is an assumption that a lot of people are making based on their views of the situation.  I have never seen any actual evidence that this is the case.  Can't you accept that there is a chance that the CDC and others are correct, and perhaps the cruise industry actually knows what it's doing without the political overlay?

Based on the last 18+ months ... nope.

Pretty clearly demonstrated to my satisfaction that the cruise protocols in particular are pure theater driven by fear of an overreaching government agency.

Witness my first cruise in July with fewer protocols in place and statements being made by crew on board that they were prepping to reduce the protocols further in the near future and instead going the other way just to keep the CDC "happy".

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