DunkelBierJay Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 During some idle time this morning, I was thinking about how pricing is through the roof, and wondered if a correction may be coming. I have no idea, because Royal Caribbean's marketing seems superior to the other cruise lines and demand seems disproportionate to Royal vs other lines. I looked for late May sailings from Miami, Port Everglades, Port Canaveral and Tampa. I compared the May 25 sailing on Icon, Symphony, Wonder and Enchantment for similar category cabins to compare with Carnival Celebration. I realize it's not completely apples to apples, but this was eye opening. Results (guarantees when the option was available): Carnival Celebration -- 7 night sailing on May 26 from Miami -- total cost for two is $2,543.30 -- cost per night $363.32 Icon -- 7 night sailing on May 25 from Miami -- total cost for two is $9,767.38 -- cost per night $1,395.34 Symphony -- 6 night sailing on May 4 from Port Everglades -- total cost for two is $2,994.48 (the sailings from PE were limited to Symphony 6 night and 3 night -- not a good comparison) -- cost per night $499 Wonder -- 7 night sailing on May 26 from Port Canaveral -- total cost for two is $4,707.94 -- cost per night $672.56 Enchantment -- 7 night sailing on May 11 from Tampa -- total cost for two is $3,798.76 -- cost per night $542.68 per night I have to conclude that unless there is a correction soon, I may be trying other lines. I just don't see that the value that Royal has been known for exists right now considering a ship like Enchantment gets more for 7 nights than Carnival's second newest ship that has been getting good reviews. I am loyal to Royal, but there is a limit, and sadly, I am close to it. I'm curious to know what others are thinking. Cactus527, PPPJJ-GCVAB, tingtang and 3 others 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steverk Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 Please note that vision class balconies have always been ridiculously priced. There aren't very many. Enchantment is probably more competitive if you look at interiors or Jr suites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAAAYTOOO Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 I was shocked at the cost for sailing on Enchantment. I have friends who are sailing on her 6-22-24 and I thought about going along but 7 nights on that crap ship was over $5K (JS) ! ...even more once you added in grats. No f'ing way ! cdixon22, ChrisK2793, BrianB and 12 others 5 8 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancity Cruiser Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 21 minutes ago, DunkelBierJay said: I'm curious to know what others are thinking. Way ahead of you! Was on Symphony a couple weeks ago but that was a sailing I had booked a couple years ago. When I repriced just before final payment cost for a standard ocean view balcony had gone from 3K CAD to 8K CAD. There are still deals to be found with Royal if you care to spend the time looking but my cruise dollars have been going to other lines for the last year and a half. I used to cruise about 90% Royal but now limit Royal to once per year. I still prefer Royal ships and entertainment but not to the point of paying the $ that others are willing to spend. DunkelBierJay, Cactus527 and PhillyLady 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly Ogre Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 Heh!! That is why you book early... my 2024 Oasis is $2562.00 with insurance and gty included... My 2025 Indy cruise is $2649.12 with insurance and gty included. Both are balcony cabins that I chose the location. You can see that pricing is going up as the Oasis for an 8 day for 2024 that I booked Dec of 2022 is less than the 7 day Indy that I just booked for 2025. Vancity Cruiser 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweety Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 I always book two years ahead. I am booked until March 2026. I booked Utopia on the first day. I am waiting for the next two weeks so I can book my remaining cruises. I am breathing down the neck of pinnacle. OCSC Mike and Ryan79 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunkelBierJay Posted January 31 Author Report Share Posted January 31 53 minutes ago, steverk said: Please note that vision class balconies have always been ridiculously priced. There aren't very many. Enchantment is probably more competitive if you look at interiors or Jr suites. Maybe...however when I sailed on Enchantment, it was in a jr suite on a 4 nighter for about $100 more than a balcony. It was about $190 per night for two...granted, a different era....and for her May 11 sailing this year...there is no way they can justify that cost when compared to the Carnival ship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobroo Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 49 minutes ago, WAAAYTOOO said: I was shocked at the cost for sailing on Enchantment. I have friends who are sailing on her 6-22-24 and I thought about going along but 7 nights on that crap ship was over $5K (JS) ! ...even more once you added in grats. No f'ing way ! WTH? Friends don't let friends sail Enchantment! Butters530, cdixon22, Maggie M and 5 others 6 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunkelBierJay Posted January 31 Author Report Share Posted January 31 For kicks I did a Disney dummy booking...I didn't see a Guarantee option Disney Fantasy -- 7 night sailing on May 18 from Port Canaveral -- total cost for two is $4,985.22 -- cost per night $712 -- for me...AIN'T NO WAY I SAIL WITH THE MOUSE, but Wonder is getting close....I wonder if the market will move to Carnival, NCL and MSC soon. I hope so, because I don't want to sail on them. Compare with.... Carnival Celebration -- 7 night sailing on May 26 from Miami -- total cost for two is $2,543.30 -- cost per night $363.32 Icon -- 7 night sailing on May 25 from Miami -- total cost for two is $9,767.38 -- cost per night $1,395.34 Symphony -- 6 night sailing on May 4 from Port Everglades -- total cost for two is $2,994.48 (the sailings from PE were limited to Symphony 6 night and 3 night -- not a good comparison) -- cost per night $499 Wonder -- 7 night sailing on May 26 from Port Canaveral -- total cost for two is $4,707.94 -- cost per night $672.56 Enchantment -- 7 night sailing on May 11 from Tampa -- total cost for two is $3,798.76 -- cost per night $542.68 per night Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 I've been eyeing short Carnival for weekend getaways. Royal's short weekend program here is high and goes up once Utopia arrives. I'm a few cruises short of platinum on CCL so maybe it's time to fix that. Cactus527, Starrynight0154, WAAAYTOOO and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFCruise Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 1 hour ago, bobroo said: WTH? Friends don't let friends sail Enchantment! What's wrong with Enchantment? DunkelBierJay and Butters530 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunkelBierJay Posted January 31 Author Report Share Posted January 31 2 hours ago, JFCruise said: What's wrong with Enchantment? Personally, I liked Enchantment, but not at those prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesszy94 Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 3 hours ago, JFCruise said: What's wrong with Enchantment? Nothing is wrong with Enchantment or any of the other Vision class ships, I've personally never sailed her, but I'm sure she's still a great ship, just snide comments because of her age and that she feels "dated" and she doesn't have the latest and greatest (waterslides, rock climbing, Flow Rider etc). So people immediately assume she's a crap/bad ship. (Not saying anyone here, just general comments I've read all over the internet) Butters530 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffmw Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 There is zero question that Royal is very purposefully raising prices as part of a push to establish a 'new normal' that's more in line with other family vacation options. There have been a lot of talking points being pushed by Royal for a while now about how cruise vacations cost significantly less than other vacations. They're making sure everyone is well aware of this so it's met with minimal pushback when they raise baseline pricing. So now they've increased prices across the board and have been met with post-COVID increased demand, which only makes it easier to justify. They've also spent a TON on marketing lately. They're advertising the hell out of Icon, grabbing newcomers with the shiny new toy and then, for those with sticker shock, booking people into Oasis Class ships after they price out Icon. The goal, I believe, is to reinvent the perception of the industry as a major player in the family vacation space, but to do it at a price point that's more in line with competitive options. All this marketing is a push to bring in new customers who don't have the comparison of the prior era when it was comparatively cheap. Meanwhile, people like us will likely stick around and pay more because they know from their data that cruisers are incredibly loyal to their preferred vacationing method. We used to be a Disney family. We went to Disney World basically every year, but when Disney went berserk on pricing and turned it from financially manageable to only enjoyable at a luxury price, we switched over to Royal. I fear Royal is going a similar direction. Carnival may continue to be the cheaper option, but I would anticipate they'll follow industry trends and increase pricing. Why charge 30% less when you can charge 15% less and still be the less expensive option? PhillyLady, Baked Alaska, Jamesszy94 and 2 others 3 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biaggio Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 5 hours ago, twangster said: I've been eyeing short Carnival for weekend getaways. Royal's short weekend program here is high and goes up once Utopia arrives. I'm a few cruises short of platinum on CCL so maybe it's time to fix that. Have you seen videos on what happens on those weekend Carnival cruises? sammy79 and PPPJJ-GCVAB 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeybandit Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 They're raising prices because people keep paying the prices. Like any good business would do. Vancity Cruiser, BMW Hoosier and PhillyLady 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Of The Seas Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 We're giving Holland America a try in early November '24. Nieuw Amsterdam, 7 days from Port Everglades. 4 port calls (if 2 Carnival private facilities count as ports). But, in a Signature Suite cabin (we passed on the all included fare). $4500 & change out the door. We bought 3rd party travel insurance that predictably was better than HAL's plan. PPPJJ-GCVAB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starrynight0154 Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 Curious how many people are booking Enchantment for $4,050(if you include gratuities). Insane price for an older ship. There’s a lot of other vacation options at that price, cruises and land based. I like Royal but if another cruise line is $1,500 less for a similar experience I don’t understand how Royal can remain competitive, especially when the economy declines eventually. They’re going to lose customers at some point with these higher prices. Butters530 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Squirrel Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 Prices are crazy high but... we'd been watching our June Harmony sailing hoping a Star cabin would open. We searched everyday and doing this, we saw reductions in our CLS twice in 2 weeks resulting in a $3800 reduction. We cant explain it, our TA couldn't either. CLS's were almost complety booked. We didn't care why, we repriced both times and saved the money. I guess you never know. btw...Star Loft came available at about $9k pp. no thanks. We'll enjoy our much cheaper CLS. PhillyLady 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baked Alaska Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 Too bad we can't resell our current bookings and make a profit. Pattycruise, PhillyLady, PPPJJ-GCVAB and 3 others 3 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Miller Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 They are pushing price because they can. Once demand bottoms out (if it ever does) and many long time loyals have been driven away, RC is banking that we will all just come back and all will be forgiven. Seems a little risky to me. But I'm no business guy and they are definitely raking it in for the time being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunkelBierJay Posted February 1 Author Report Share Posted February 1 17 hours ago, Jamesszy94 said: Nothing is wrong with Enchantment or any of the other Vision class ships, I've personally never sailed her, but I'm sure she's still a great ship, just snide comments because of her age and that she feels "dated" and she doesn't have the latest and greatest (waterslides, rock climbing, Flow Rider etc). So people immediately assume she's a crap/bad ship. (Not saying anyone here, just general comments I've read all over the internet) Enchantment does have a rock climbing wall aft just outside the fitness center...and the pool deck and pool bar are fantastic. I think that ship needs an Izumi in the Viking Crown. I have been trying to get back on board for a while, but it hasn't worked out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggie M Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 14 hours ago, Starrynight0154 said: Curious how many people are booking Enchantment for $4,050(if you include gratuities). Insane price for an older ship. There’s a lot of other vacation options at that price, cruises and land based. I like Royal but if another cruise line is $1,500 less for a similar experience I don’t understand how Royal can remain competitive, especially when the economy declines eventually. They’re going to lose customers at some point with these higher prices. We are sailing on Enchantment this weekend for 7 nights and it was less than $4K for a junior suite with trip insurance and gratuities included for 2 adults and 1 child. We personally don't mind the older ships especially since it's our son's (3 years old) first cruise and he'll have nothing to compare it to so everything will seem new and exciting! I prefer the Oasis class ships but for a suite this time of year the prices for those this week/month were over $2k higher than what we paid on Enchantment and we booked over a year ago! WAAAYTOOO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carpe Diem Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 It's sad, but true. Royal Caribbean uses "Dynamic Pricing". That's code for "they will charge as much as people are willing to pay". As long as people keep paying these inflated prices, Royal Caribbean will keep charging them. I suspect eventually they will hit the ceiling where people are less willing to pay these prices and then we might see some relief. Until then, though, I expect prices to remain high. PhillyLady, WAAAYTOOO, DunkelBierJay and 1 other 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starrynight0154 Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 RC beat 2023 q4 analysts earnings expectations. What made this quarter different was lower operating costs(food, fuel, etc). Before they beat estimates primarily because of revenue. CEO Jason Liberty is predicting another stellar year for 2024 and company profits. They could lower prices due to lower operating costs, but doesn’t sound like they will obviously with record high demand. PhillyLady 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Miller Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 4 minutes ago, Starrynight0154 said: CEO Jason Liberty is predicting another stellar year for 2024 and company profits. Woo Hoo!!! You know what that means!? Price increases across the board! Are you ready for the $150 per day Beverage package? $5 to look in the direction of the Pearl for more than 5 seconds? $100 for Chops? $25 General admission to Coco Cay? What a time to be alive!!! DunkelBierJay and Starrynight0154 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunkelBierJay Posted February 1 Author Report Share Posted February 1 2 hours ago, Carpe Diem said: It's sad, but true. Royal Caribbean uses "Dynamic Pricing". That's code for "they will charge as much as people are willing to pay". As long as people keep paying these inflated prices, Royal Caribbean will keep charging them. I suspect eventually they will hit the ceiling where people are less willing to pay these prices and then we might see some relief. Until then, though, I expect prices to remain high. This speaks to my question about a correction...I have reasonably priced cruises booked through June 2025, and the likelihood I will book again with Royal is almost nil right now. I may cancel one of the sailings too....I have no problem booking elsewhere. I will keep an eye on it, but I think it will take some time for the market to figure it out and tell Royal that their product isn't worth it...once the honeymoon period with Icon wears off, we may have a milestone. The sooner people realize the product doesn't bring the kind of value they are used to and when the novelty wears off may be telling. Utopia probably won't sustain the momentum they are having for very much longer. USFFrank, Starrynight0154 and Al Miller 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Miller Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 I agree. They are slowly alienating what once was considered their base. That base has a value that is difficult to quantify until you no longer have it. And they are going to have A LOT of new inventory to sell in the coming few years. I am curious to see how this goes. Baked Alaska, DunkelBierJay and Starrynight0154 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starrynight0154 Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 If we got an upgraded experience overall with food and service I’d consider booking at higher prices. I’m not willing to pay significantly more for less product. Royal employees are being asked to do more with less, customers are being asked to pay more. Jason Liberty is the classic greedy out of touch CEO that reaps all the benefits and isn’t held accountable. USFFrank, DunkelBierJay, Baked Alaska and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunkelBierJay Posted February 1 Author Report Share Posted February 1 50 minutes ago, Starrynight0154 said: If we got an upgraded experience overall with food and service I’d consider booking at higher prices. I’m not willing to pay significantly more for less product. Royal employees are being asked to do more with less, customers are being asked to pay more. Jason Liberty is the classic greedy out of touch CEO that reaps all the benefits and isn’t held accountable. Did you see his speech at the Icon naming ceremony? Richard Fain he isn't. Liberty came up from being the CFO, and it is showing. If it wasn't for Michael Bayley, the creativity would be dying. Al Miller 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffmw Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 4 hours ago, Al Miller said: Woo Hoo!!! You know what that means!? Price increases across the board! Are you ready for the $150 per day Beverage package? $5 to look in the direction of the Pearl for more than 5 seconds? $100 for Chops? $25 General admission to Coco Cay? What a time to be alive!!! Yeah I always have the same reaction when these quarterly reports come out. Are we supposed to be happy that a massive corporation we support is expecting record profits? I mean, I'm not rooting against them. I don't want them to go under or cut quality due to budget problems or have to lay a bunch of people off. But at the same time, corporations boasting record profits isn't necessarily a great thing for Joe Citizen. Don't believe what Reagan said -- they're not passing the savings onto us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbrinkm Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 We're done for a while after our March cruise. Between cruise fares and flight prices, we'd rather spend on land vacations. Al Miller, RCIfan1912, Baked Alaska and 1 other 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChessE4 Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 We just got off another line, and while the food was superb (like specialty dining everyday), and the ship experience intimate (689 pax), the price was double what we pay on Royal, at least for our next 2 booked cruises. I am waiting on 2026 schedule and prices before I commit again on any cruise line. WAAAYTOOO and RCIfan1912 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanHardlyWait Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 On 2/1/2024 at 12:00 PM, DunkelBierJay said: This speaks to my question about a correction...I have reasonably priced cruises booked through June 2025, and the likelihood I will book again with Royal is almost nil right now. I may cancel one of the sailings too....I have no problem booking elsewhere. I will keep an eye on it, but I think it will take some time for the market to figure it out and tell Royal that their product isn't worth it...once the honeymoon period with Icon wears off, we may have a milestone. The sooner people realize the product doesn't bring the kind of value they are used to and when the novelty wears off may be telling. Utopia probably won't sustain the momentum they are having for very much longer. I wouldn't count on the "Honeymoon" being over anytime soon. As crazy as Icon prices are, we just booked next May's Icon and still have 3 months to go till our first Icon sailing this May. Figured the price will only increase so we put our deposit down today. All based on the current reviews and YouTube videos from week one. The overall look is more MSC NCL than typical Royal and I'm really digging the colors and multiple styles chairs etc. So I'm already hooked. LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunkelBierJay Posted February 3 Author Report Share Posted February 3 I hear 2 hours ago, CanHardlyWait said: I wouldn't count on the "Honeymoon" being over anytime soon. As crazy as Icon prices are, we just booked next May's Icon and still have 3 months to go till our first Icon sailing this May. Figured the price will only increase so we put our deposit down today. All based on the current reviews and YouTube videos from week one. The overall look is more MSC NCL than typical Royal and I'm really digging the colors and multiple styles chairs etc. So I'm already hooked. LOL. I hear you...I don't think Icon's pricing will let up...I hope that when Star comes online, that somehow the rest of the fleet's pricing will become more reasonable. I don't think that $542 a night on Enchantment compared to $363 a night on Carnival Celebration for sailings in the same month makes a lot of sense in the market, and I think people will go elsewhere. I've seen some of this kind of chatter on Cruise Critic as well. I'm sure Royal is enjoying this wave, but for it's customers, the value proposition seems to be gone right now. CanHardlyWait 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMW Hoosier Posted February 3 Report Share Posted February 3 On 2/1/2024 at 1:35 AM, Al Miller said: They are pushing price because they can. Once demand bottoms out (if it ever does) and many long time loyals have been driven away, RC is banking that we will all just come back and all will be forgiven. Seems a little risky to me. But I'm no business guy and they are definitely raking it in for the time being. So, what should they do? Underprice the market and piss people off because nothing is available? Or price at the current market prices, make new loyal customers while the other's age and ultimately die? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Miller Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 On 2/3/2024 at 10:03 AM, BMW Hoosier said: So, what should they do? Underprice the market and piss people off because nothing is available? Or price at the current market prices, make new loyal customers while the other's age and ultimately die? I am no business man. They should do what they want. It's working fine for them so for. But when/if the market gets saturated and they NEED that loyal base that cruises several times a year to fill up their ever expanding inventory, they may have trouble getting them back. But it may never come to that. The supply of "once a year" families might very well be enough to sustain them. That's all. Like I said, their plan is working great so far profit-wise. WAAAYTOOO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs. Thomas Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 I went on Cruisebound.com and their prices can be close to the RC website but they also have a better deal because you can get the guarantee cabin price while actually picking which room you want. I'm thinking of using them instead of a TA who will just contact RC to do the booking. I'm still keeping my eyes open however. I did notice a $100 to $150 jump in interior pricing in 24hrs on a early March sailing. It's getting ridiculous and some of us won't be able to cruise if they keep this up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs. Thomas Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 On 1/31/2024 at 4:55 PM, jeffmw said: There is zero question that Royal is very purposefully raising prices as part of a push to establish a 'new normal' that's more in line with other family vacation options. There have been a lot of talking points being pushed by Royal for a while now about how cruise vacations cost significantly less than other vacations. They're making sure everyone is well aware of this so it's met with minimal pushback when they raise baseline pricing. So now they've increased prices across the board and have been met with post-COVID increased demand, which only makes it easier to justify. They've also spent a TON on marketing lately. They're advertising the hell out of Icon, grabbing newcomers with the shiny new toy and then, for those with sticker shock, booking people into Oasis Class ships after they price out Icon. The goal, I believe, is to reinvent the perception of the industry as a major player in the family vacation space, but to do it at a price point that's more in line with competitive options. All this marketing is a push to bring in new customers who don't have the comparison of the prior era when it was comparatively cheap. Meanwhile, people like us will likely stick around and pay more because they know from their data that cruisers are incredibly loyal to their preferred vacationing method. We used to be a Disney family. We went to Disney World basically every year, but when Disney went berserk on pricing and turned it from financially manageable to only enjoyable at a luxury price, we switched over to Royal. I fear Royal is going a similar direction. Carnival may continue to be the cheaper option, but I would anticipate they'll follow industry trends and increase pricing. Why charge 30% less when you can charge 15% less and still be the less expensive option? I keep looking at CCL but every time I do it feels like I'm trying to go to Waffle House instead of a good steak house to eat. I know we will be ok and probably have an ok time, but I also know that it won't be as nice, maybe a little dirty, and I won't get exactly what I want. Not to mention there may be a fight or two. LOL My kiddos are older and finding things for them to do becomes more than just being in the pool too. If CCL's newest ship that is in Galveston was in FL then I would look at it harder, but we can't get to TX to sail and the Western area doesn't appeal to us. So for now, we will just keep our eyes open and save where we can. However, I highly doubt we will be taking any more cruises after this next one unless somethings drastically change. TXCoastPatriot 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Miller Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 14 minutes ago, Mrs. Thomas said: If CCL's newest ship that is in Galveston was in FL then I would look at it harder, Aren't Mardi Gras and Celebration home ported in FL? If they'd come to NYC I'd give them a shot for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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