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Conditional Sail Order - Extended or Expired?


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22 minutes ago, wordell1 said:

I work in retail and have been dealing with the general public since the start of the pandemic - masked and unmasked.  I have no idea whether my customers are vaccinated, and they are certainly not covid tested immediately before they enter my store.  I work in one store, but stores and restaurants are open all over the US, and even the world.

Just like the crew, there is a small chance that I could be exposed to a live covid case and be within 6ft long enough to contract it - This is the reason that I chose to be vaccinated!  By doing so, I have reduced my risk to almost zero of having anything more than mild covid symptoms - I am no more worried about covid than I would have been 2 years ago about getting the flu.  I have a job to do and cruises to pay for - there is a very small risk, but I take it willingly.

 

And I and my customer's opinion is different.  That's why I don't think we can assume anything about what the crew would want.  I don't know that they would be honest if asked.  I'm just a little embarrassed that I had never thought about it until this thread.

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I just returned from a 14n west bound transatlantic crossing on Celebrity Apex. Up until a day before boarding, Apex had a no-mask policy outdoors and indoors. I received an email from Celebrity the day before the sail date announcing masks would be required, regardless of vax status, both indoors and outdoors except when dining or drinking.

I learned 2nd hand that the reason for this change was that on the sailing just before ours - 7n transit from Piraeus (Athens) via a few Greek Isle stops to Barcelona - there were 7 positive COVID tests among both passengers and crew. There were 56 close contacts identified and quarantined. 

First, cruise ships most likely have unpublished protocols that determine what mitigation measures are required aboard based on certain metrics or the COVID policies of nations they are calling on (BTW, Spain requires masking on all commercial conveyances and this may have been playing a part as well). In this case some number of positive tests among guests and crew may have triggered the indoor masking mitigation measure. Alternatively, mitigation measures within the EU suffer from a dizzying number of options. We had just sailed from Piraeus on Apex in August. Despite Greece formally requiring masks in doors in restaurants, bars, ferryrs and so forth, They weren't required in doors on Apex for that sailing. See the helpful link below to sort through these.

The reason I'm posting here is to relate one crew members take on the positives - all Europeans - on the cruise just prior to mine. I rarely if ever hear a Celebrity Crew member say anything disparaging about other passengers or crew policies. So, I was surprised to hear a server in Al Bacio (Celebrity's version of Starbucks) go off about how irresponsible and disrespectful of other passengers and crew that those passengers who had somehow contracted COVID were. The sentiment was that clearly those passengers didn't take adequate precautions to avoid getting sick.

That may or may not be true. I also think this crew member was aware of other specifics, she did not disclose to me .... antimaskers?), about how these 7 got infected such specifics casting doubts about how safety conscious they had been before boarding. The point is that this crew member - sample size of one but they talk among each other so I'm assuming this is a wide spread sentiment - are very aware of the risks of passengers who either unknowingly or knowingly take risks that increases their potential to get COVID.

Why is that? Well, this server was one of the 56 contacts. She was quarantined for 10 days and tested twice before getting released back to work. Crew hate quarantine. They did it on joining ship's staff for 2 weeks, hate it, and hate being sent back into it because of some passenger who she believes - maybe for good reason - behaved in risky ways and got infected. 

So, yes, crew are watching the behaviors of passengers and fellow crew members. They care deeply about their jobs and hate missing work and the potential of getting sent home if they become infected. It behooves us to respect those fears and do what we can to keep ourselves from being exposed and potentially infecting them and the consequences they will suffer because of that.

https://reopen.europa.eu/en  

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3 hours ago, JeffB said:

So, yes, crew are watching the behaviors of passengers and fellow crew members. They care deeply about their jobs and hate missing work and the potential of getting sent home if they become infected. It behooves us to respect those fears and do what we can to keep ourselves from being exposed and potentially infecting them and the consequences they will suffer because of that.

https://reopen.europa.eu/en  

The question that should follow this attitude is would the crew care about the way passengers behave if they weren't required to quarantine as a result of a close contact? 

The crew member you're talking about is committing the false choice logical fallacy. If they really hate quarantine, the anger should be directed at the protocol which requires quarantine of presumably healthy people (like her), not the fact that a passenger triggered it (and let's not even get started on our ability to predict which behavior may have resulted in the original passenger(s) catching the virus). The more likely thing is that you stumbled upon some latent nationalistic or other prejudicial attitude being expressed by someone who thought they'd have a friendly ear in you.

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28 minutes ago, Canadian-Cruiser said:

The crew are the ones who will bear the brunt of whatever happens with masks down the road as we can expect that in the event the masks on board become optional for the guests, the crew will have to continue donning them in all indoor venues regardless. As @MrMarc and @JeffB said, we ought to think about how they factor into all this. Sure as guests I'm sure all of us would LOVE to not be able to donne the masks once they become optional but crew have no such choice and it remains to be seen how willing they will be to be engaging with guests. Granted I'm sure we can agree that the cleaner's and cabin attendants have the most difficult jobs as opposed to some entertainment person or guest services and most will not want to be quarantined due to an inadvertent exposure.

As North Americans we tend to think more about our vacation experiences with the focus on us more than them and how inconvenient things are or why is this done this way or that way @LizzyBee23 especially if ones hails from the cruise capital of the world which tends to be a bit of a different mindset but at the end of the day its he crew who will essentially be the folks who will have to deal with whatever comes their way. These are low wage workers who only want to support their families and really don't want to have to be quarantined and lose wages by doing so. I know personally I will continue to be respectful of them as opposed to citing theatre when I'm in their presence and I'm sure the crew deeply appreciated the guests having their best interests in mind for something as simple as a covering. Think of the crew and be kind. 

Point taken

However, you still haven't addressed the question of the dining room attendants and crew that work in unvaccinated indoor areas of the ship where passengers are not masked currently and how that would differ moving forward. I wont get in trouble again but then there is the whole question of the efficacy of cloth masks and if they would truly protect the crew. One would think that masks will not be a requirement forever on cruise ships as the pandemic wanes. I will not mention theater in front of the crew but I do recognize that some protocols in place do not stop the spread of covid (EX: Crew filling your soda cup at Freestyle machine). However, I am choosing to sail during a pandemic and agree to the protocols. Just as crew have chosen to work on a cruise ship and assume the inherent risks of doing so

I think the best protection for the crew is to get vaccinated and as other people have mentioned, the crew skews younger where their risks from serious outcome should be minimized especially being vaccinated. 

There is no way to keep Covid cases from happening on cruise ships. All they can do is effective protocols that have proven to slow the spread. 

As cruise ship customers, we do have a choice to spend our money on sailings during the pandemic with the listed protocols. It is a reasonable expectation that Royal will provide protection for their crews as Royal does not want to lose revenue. Also, it is up to the personal responsibility of the crew to protect themselves as well by being vaccinated and not work a cruise ship if they have medical conditions that would make them more susceptible to Covid. My cruise dollars during this pandemic help support the crew as well as me choosing to sail during a pandemic. 

I sail in November and I will follow all safety protocols that Royal has set.  

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Masking has already become a class issue (see the MOMA spectacle for a recent example here) and part of the reason I sincerely oppose mask mandates for anyone, crew included. @Canadian-Cruiser is committing the same type of logical fallacy. Because an injustice is being committed on the basis of flimsy (at best) science and is forcing the crew to mask at the behest of a corporation catering to the whims of scared passengers, then we should all do it too. The problem is with the requirement in the first place.

 

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