Gratuities raised

[Lovetocruise2002]

2 hours ago, Sea Squirrel said:

Does anyone know if CK staff gets a cut of the auto-gratuities?

I cannot say that I am 100% sure, but I have heard from many sources that CK gets the MDR portion of the gratuity if you dine there. That is why they always ask for your cabin number in CK when you check in. It's recorded, and gratuities are allotted accordingly. That's what I've been told at least.

[KWofPerth]

As most of you would be aware, in the Australian and Asian markets the gratuities are rolled into the upfront costs. It makes life a lot easier and these sorts of discussions redundant. Do you guys see a time where the same approach is applied in the North American cruise market?

[Mick]

If anyone comes across the updated breakdown from 11 Nov I'd greatly appreciate it

[Neesa]

@Sea Squirrel My understanding as explained to me by a CK host so not sure if it truely is the case is the gratuity for dining follows you up to CK. This is another reason for recording your cabin number. Supposedly the gratuity from the MDR makes its way to the CK team. 

The service being what it is always finds us rewarding the elevated experience additionally but I do believe and hope that is the case. 

Yikes, my computer didn't refresh. I see this has been answered previously.

 

[tonyfsu21]

On 10/31/2023 at 8:14 PM, LandstromCruise said:

Seems like Mr. Liberty is tone deaf and I worry about the long term success of Royal with him at the helm. Why would you release this after just coming out with the news of record profits and making $1B last quarter. I totally get that they lost a crap ton of money during the stupid shutdown and have loans and stuff to pay back. But seriously, maybe do this like 2 months from now instead right after telling everyone how you are swimming in profits and are now going to find a way to take more of their money. 

I don’t think long term success should be a concern considering the record number of people willing to pay these prices. I hate to say it but RC doesn’t care about loyalty or the legacy cruisers. The market caters to the new money cruisers and the families willing to spend exponentially more then the legacy cruisers complaining about the MDR or the $2 increase in gratuities. The new cruisers will buy the drink packages, pay for the overwater cabanas and spend tons of money in the casino. The gameplan is laid out and it’s pretty black & white. 

[Neesa]

21 minutes ago, tonyfsu21 said:

26 minutes ago, tonyfsu21 said:

I don’t think long term success should be a concern considering the record number of people willing to pay these prices. I hate to say it but RC doesn’t care about loyalty or the legacy cruisers. The market caters to the new money cruisers and the families willing to spend exponentially more then the legacy cruisers complaining about the MDR or the $2 increase in gratuities. The new cruisers will buy the drink packages, pay for the overwater cabanas and spend tons of money in the casino. The gameplan is laid out and it’s pretty black & white. 

 

This 100% put so well. I was going to type this same thought but erased it because I could not communicate it well,  I feel the exact same way....

I try to be careful with my words through voice or typing, my grandmother always said to me "speak with soft & tender words because some day you may have to eat them."  I'm old & I still remember this from over 50 years ago. I try not to be careless as one never knows what someone else is going through & maybe it is translated wrong. I never want to hurt with my words so I love when someone else can communicate what I'm thinking like @tonyfsu21 did here

Edited November 2, 2023 by Neesa
Added thought

[Xaa]

13 hours ago, Pattycruise said:

Employees get room and board.  Sheets employees are paying rent and food.  Big difference.,

Did I say Sheetz?  Oops,I meant the local overnight 4h Camp is paying more than $500/week.  

My point is I think there is a big gap between "Indentured Servitude" that the poster suggested as being how the staff was viewed and the more livable wage that individually some people feel would be more in line with the work and impact of the crew members.

Feeling like they deserve more isn't suggesting they are indentured servants.  By that posters math, the $500/week (if there is any accuracy to the math) and a crew bed down below isn't a ton and I don't mind them getting more.  I already give them more voluntarily. 

[tonyfsu21]

1 minute ago, Neesa said:

 

Yep. It’s very obvious. I 100% consider the loyalty program to be the best in the industry but that doesn’t necessarily mean legacy cruisers are actually valued. I do not believe Mr Liberty considers Pinnacle Grandma the long term gameplan as she rolls through the promenade like she owns the place (and gets everything for free). Mr Liberty wants money to feed the Royal Caribbean beast and that money is not coming from Pinnacle Grandmas 30 cruises per year in an inside cabin sipping her free rose with the captain. 

[Xaa]

18 minutes ago, tonyfsu21 said:

I don’t think long term success should be a concern considering the record number of people willing to pay these prices. I hate to say it but RC doesn’t care about loyalty or the legacy cruisers. The market caters to the new money cruisers and the families willing to spend exponentially more then the legacy cruisers complaining about the MDR or the $2 increase in gratuities. The new cruisers will buy the drink packages, pay for the overwater cabanas and spend tons of money in the casino. The gameplan is laid out and it’s pretty black & white. 

Facts!

[tonyfsu21]

Look for more options to spend money and less options to save. This process will start with the flagship Icon of the seas which will standardize Mr Liberty’s vision. 

[WAAAYTOOO]

11 hours ago, Ampurp85 said:

I always thought that's part of the extra in suites gratuity. To pay the dedicated staff involved with those perks.

I have read, before, but do not know this to be a fact....that when you dine in the CK, your gratuities follow you....so your regular daily gratuity does go to the CK server(s).  

[Sea Squirrel]

19 hours ago, Lovetocruise2002 said:

CK gets the MDR portion of the gratuity if you dine there. That is why they always ask for your cabin number

Thanks, that makes sense. I never paid attention to them asking our cabin number. 

[Sea Squirrel]

12 hours ago, Neesa said:

The service being what it is always finds us rewarding the elevated experience additionally but I do believe and hope that is the case.

This seems to be the general consensus on here; makes sense. I totally agree on the service. I can't remember a time the CK staff hasn't consistently gone above and beyond and earned extra recognition beyong the AGs in our eyes. Always top notch. 

[tonyfsu21]

11 hours ago, Neesa said:

This 100% put so well. I was going to type this same thought but erased it because I could not communicate it well,  I feel the exact same way....

I try to be careful with my words through voice or typing, my grandmother always said to me "speak with soft & tender words because some day you may have to eat them."  I'm old & I still remember this from over 50 years ago. I try not to be careless as one never knows what someone else is going through & maybe it is translated wrong. I never want to hurt with my words so I love when someone else can communicate what I'm thinking like @tonyfsu21 did here

I graduated from FSU and I can barely spell so I’m elated you actually think I can communicate. 

[tingtang]

Called RC today and prepaid our $16 pd/pp grats for Icon next April.  Thanks for the heads up! 

[OCSC Mike]

4 minutes ago, tingtang said:

Called RC today and prepaid our $16 pd/pp grats for Icon next April.  Thanks for the heads up! 

Just an FYI for anyone else... to clarify, you don't actually have to PAY them by 11/11, you just have to have prepaid gratuities added to your booking before 11/11. You can pay them when you make your final payment as usual and you will still be charged the current/old rate.

[RCIfan1912]

12 minutes ago, OCSC Mike said:

Just an FYI for anyone else... to clarify, you don't actually have to PAY them by 11/11, you just have to have prepaid gratuities added to your booking before 11/11. You can pay them when you make your final payment as usual and you will still be charged the current/old rate.

That's exactly what our TA did for both our bookings next year, February and Oct. I didn't know that was a thing but that's what they did. Just added it to our current bookings. 

[Colombia20102018]

On 11/1/2023 at 5:20 PM, ScottD said:

and here is the full rundown: 

Let’s do the math. At $3.55 per guest per room per day. Supposing that this is true and that Royal Caribbean is giving them that money and assuming double occupancy, let’s round that up to $7 per day per room. Now let’s assume each Stewart is responsible for ten cabins. That would be $70 per day, $490 a week or $2100 a month just in tips. Most guests leave a little extra. Let’s say on average $50 per room. That’s another $500 per week for ten rooms or another $2142. That totals $4212 a month just in tips on average. Now, I understand that they also have a base salary and don’t have to pay any costs on board. They get a shared cabin, good food, gym, internet, and other amenities. Let’s say the salary is $800 a month. Then give or take they could make about $5000 a month. If these assumptions are correct, 80% of their income is based on tips which is extremely exaggerated. Now, some rooms are for four people and suites pay more tips, then the amounts are even bigger.
I have a hard time believing they make  this much. 
What are your thoughts? 

[smokeybandit]

I would imagine most people do not tip the stateroom attendant just because they know they're already paying gratuities. Especially with such a big new wave of rookie cruisers.

Though on the other hand, I think they're responsible for a lot more than 10 rooms.

[OCSC Mike]

32 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

I think they're responsible for a lot more than 10 rooms.

On Allure last month ours told us he had 17 and some were JS's (i.e. twice/day service). He said those without any suites had more.

[OCSC Mike]

5 minutes ago, OCSC Mike said:

On Allure last month ours told us he had 17 and some were JS's (i.e. twice/day service). He said those without any suites had more.

He also did a great job and my wife may or may not have gotten some of the peppermint bar soap reserved for suites (we were in a CP view interior) after casually mentioning how much she liked it.

[tingtang]

16 hours ago, OCSC Mike said:

Just an FYI for anyone else... to clarify, you don't actually have to PAY them by 11/11, you just have to have prepaid gratuities added to your booking before 11/11. You can pay them when you make your final payment as usual and you will still be charged the current/old rate.

I guess I misunderstood that they needed to be paid by the 11th.  They were already added to our booking.

No harm, It wasn't a lot of $ and that's less to pay later.   

[ScottD]

9 minutes ago, tingtang said:

I guess I misunderstood that they needed to be paid by the 11th.  They were already added to our booking.

No harm, It wasn't a lot of $ and that's less to pay later.   

I was actually told even this doesn't need to be done. If you booked before the 11th, you're good. Even if you decide to add and pay the pre-paid gratuity after your final payment, it's still good.  Basically book a trip before 11\11....get the old rate. 

[WAAAYTOOO]

9 minutes ago, ScottD said:

I was actually told even this doesn't need to be done. If you booked before the 11th, you're good. Even if you decide to add and pay the pre-paid gratuity after your final payment, it's still good.  Basically book a trip before 11\11....get the old rate. 

I think someone made a mistake when they told you that.  If you do not add your grats to your booking before 11-11 you will be charged the new, higher grats onboard.

[OCSC Mike]

22 minutes ago, tingtang said:

No harm, It wasn't a lot of $ and that's less to pay later.  

Of course. I was just sharing info for others. Didn't mean to say you made some awful mistake or anything.

[ScottD]

3 minutes ago, WAAAYTOOO said:

I think someone made a mistake when they told you that.  If you do not add your grats to your booking before 11-11 you will be charged the new, higher grats onboard.

That's what I kept thinking, and I still went and did it.  But multiple TA's on a few other platforms kept posting this and I assumed they must be correct. BUT to be safe, I think everyone should (and probably already has) done it by now, anyway

[KJRanch]

14 minutes ago, ScottD said:

That's what I kept thinking, and I still went and did it.  But multiple TA's on a few other platforms kept posting this and I assumed they must be correct. BUT to be safe, I think everyone should (and probably already has) done it by now, anyway

I'll share my experience with it.  Not sure if it applies to the newest increase so take how you want.  I just added and prepaid my gratuities for our upcoming trip in 10 days last week.  I was expecting to pay the current rate of $16/day.  However, was only charged $14.5/day.  I was told it was because it this trip was booked before the $16 went into a effect last year. 

[karl_nj]

18 hours ago, Colombia20102018 said:

 

Let’s do the math. At $3.55 per guest per room per day. Supposing that this is true and that Royal Caribbean is giving them that money and assuming double occupancy, let’s round that up to $7 per day per room. Now let’s assume each Stewart is responsible for ten cabins. That would be $70 per day, $490 a week or $2100 a month just in tips. Most guests leave a little extra. Let’s say on average $50 per room. That’s another $500 per week for ten rooms or another $2142. That totals $4212 a month just in tips on average. Now, I understand that they also have a base salary and don’t have to pay any costs on board. They get a shared cabin, good food, gym, internet, and other amenities. Let’s say the salary is $800 a month. Then give or take they could make about $5000 a month. If these assumptions are correct, 80% of their income is based on tips which is extremely exaggerated. Now, some rooms are for four people and suites pay more tips, then the amounts are even bigger.
I have a hard time believing they make  this much. 
What are your thoughts? 

We don't know what the base salary is, or how much of these 'tips' are 'included' as part of their salary. And they do need to pay for internet and alcohol (but at a discount).

[TXcruzer]

On 11/9/2023 at 8:27 AM, karl_nj said:

We don't know what the base salary is, or how much of these 'tips' are 'included' as part of their salary. And they do need to pay for internet and alcohol (but at a discount).

Minimum base salary is $658 monthly, raising to $666 on Jan 1 2024.

No one NEEDS to pay for internet and alcohol 

[karl_nj]

1 hour ago, TXcruzer said:

Minimum bas salary is $658 monthly, raising to $666 on Jan 1 2024.

 

OK, but like I said, we don't know how much of the discretionary service fee goes towards meeting the min salary. Employers have used similar policies in the US for tipped positions.

 

[TXcruzer]

42 minutes ago, karl_nj said:

 

OK, but like I said, we don't know how much of the discretionary service fee goes towards meeting the min salary. Employers have used similar policies in the US for tipped positions.

 

Exactly why I don’t participate in the daily gratuity. It’s for the cruise-line to fully fund that minimum. 
I tip cash 

[RCIfan1912]

4 minutes ago, TXcruzer said:

Exactly why I don’t participate on the daily gratuity. It’s for the cruise-line to fully fund that minimum. 
I tip cash 

Help me understand and I'm being total serious. As a guy union worker from NJ I don't understand some of this or any of it. The daily gratuities you are saying go toward that salary of 658? I that's correct that doesn't seem right and 658 a month seems extremely bad, not right, very low. Again I'm trying to understand all of this. 

[TXcruzer]

1 minute ago, RCIfan1912 said:

Help me understand and I'm being total serious. We a guy union worker from NJ I don't understand some of this or any of it. The daily gratuities you are saying go toward that salary of 658? I that's correct that doesn't seem right and 658 a month seems extremely bad, not right, very low. Again I'm trying to understand all of this. 

The cruise-line keeps the entire process cloaked in mystery. 
What we know as fact is the minimum wage is currently $658 per month. This is mandated internationally. In my opinion that amount is the responsibility of the employer to pay from their revenue. 
The daily gratuity, again in my opinion, should be awarded ON TOP of the minimum; but there is no transparency this is being done. If the cruise-lines are using the daily charge to supplement the minimum wage, then the folks I want to reward with that money are not receiving full benefit. 
Therefore, I have chosen to not participate, to force the hand of the cruise-line. This way, I can assure my tips get into the hands of those I intend. 
 

As far as feeling the minimum wage is low, one needs to look at this through the eyes of the crew members and their perspective where they are from; not through an American union member’s eyes. This sum is quite a windfall, as is apparent my the folks that spend multiple years on the ships. 

[RCIfan1912]

2 minutes ago, TXcruzer said:

The cruise-line keeps the entire process cloaked in mystery. 
What we know as fact is the minimum wage is currently $658 per month. This is mandated internationally. In my opinion that amount is the responsibility of the employer to pay from their revenue. 
The daily gratuity, again in my opinion, should be awarded ON TOP of the minimum; but there is no transparency this is being done. If the cruise-lines are using the daily charge to supplement the minimum wage, then the folks I want to reward with that money are not receiving full benefit. 
Therefore, I have chosen to not participate, to force the hand of the cruise-line. This way, I can assure my tips get into the hands of those I intend. 
 

As far as feeling the minimum wage is low, one needs to look at this through the eyes of the crew members and their perspective where they are from; not through an American union member’s eyes. This sum is quite a windfall, as is apparent my the folks that spend multiple years on the ships. 

Maybe that's true that it's a windfall and I definitely should not be looking at from a union employee in NJ but nothing should cut into the the responsibility of the cruise line to pay that minimum. That we agree on i guess. 

[DoomSlayer]

On 10/31/2023 at 9:11 PM, BigKarl said:

Just my $2 (That is my 2 cents plus inflation).  I have been told by an officer onboard (Whom I will not call out by name or ship) that the reasoning behind RCL not rolling in the Gratuities to a cruise fair is that RCL would be responsible for the taxes both as income and payroll taxes.  Otherwise, calling it a gratuity means no income taxes or Payroll taxes for RCL and lays it solely on the employee to disclose the income and pay taxes on this income.  This alone makes quite a difference for RCL to not claim the income and pay the taxes.

Disclaimer: I have no idea if this was just the officer's opinion or whether he has any knowledge of RCL's tax accounting.  But it makes a bit of sense to me why they would not want to "Roll in" Tips into the cost/profits.

I have long suspected and theorized this was a big reason behind the separation of gratuities from the base fare.

[smokeybandit]

That makes sense I guess. But we know your cruise fare already gets broken up into a bunch of different buckets. Surely some accounting-smithing could still preserve the tax issue.

Plus, they already have "taxes and fees" separate. Why not just make gratuities a "fee" since those are never itemized to the public anyway.

[steverk]

On 11/1/2023 at 10:33 PM, KWofPerth said:

As most of you would be aware, in the Australian and Asian markets the gratuities are rolled into the upfront costs. It makes life a lot easier and these sorts of discussions redundant. Do you guys see a time where the same approach is applied in the North American cruise market?

We would prefer to have it all rolled in, but nobody expects to happen any time soon.

[craftycruiselady]

On 11/2/2023 at 7:54 AM, tonyfsu21 said:

I don’t think long term success should be a concern considering the record number of people willing to pay these prices. I hate to say it but RC doesn’t care about loyalty or the legacy cruisers. The market caters to the new money cruisers and the families willing to spend exponentially more then the legacy cruisers complaining about the MDR or the $2 increase in gratuities. The new cruisers will buy the drink packages, pay for the overwater cabanas and spend tons of money in the casino. The gameplan is laid out and it’s pretty black & white. 

I agree. They are banking on once in a life time yolo cruisers paying for cabanas, internet, drink package, balcony toss years of savings at it, not cheaper regulars. They don't want nor care about loyalty anymore. The sad part is they forgot who helped them make it through covid and the recessions of years past, it was loyal cruisers. They need to watch it though. That is how disney shot themselves in the foot, years ago they gave up on loyalty, repeat visitors and annual passholders with cuts to this or that banking on many once in a life timers who pay more. Now their numbers are way down as they finally hit the once in a life timers budget limits.

My husband wants to really stick it out with Royal and get Diamond, I told him by the time it happens it won't matter, the benefits will be gutted or watered down. Now I like Royal but I'm ready to play the whoever is cheaper game because they have changed the game.

[tonyfsu21]

4 hours ago, craftycruiselady said:

I agree. They are banking on once in a life time yolo cruisers paying for cabanas, internet, drink package, balcony toss years of savings at it, not cheaper regulars. They don't want nor care about loyalty anymore. The sad part is they forgot who helped them make it through covid and the recessions of years past, it was loyal cruisers. They need to watch it though. That is how disney shot themselves in the foot, years ago they gave up on loyalty, repeat visitors and annual passholders with cuts to this or that banking on many once in a life timers who pay more. Now their numbers are way down as they finally hit the once in a life timers budget limits.

My husband wants to really stick it out with Royal and get Diamond, I told him by the time it happens it won't matter, the benefits will be gutted or watered down. Now I like Royal but I'm ready to play the whoever is cheaper game because they have changed the game.

The “whatever is cheaper game” might be tough because they all are going down the same road in regards to scale backs on loyalty and price increases. I actually think Royal has the best loyalty program out there regardless of the new direction and corporate strategies. 

[Maggie M]

Quick question - so we prepaid our JS gratuities earlier this year at the $16 rate...if we get lucky and win the Royal Up for a Grand Suite will the gratuities be added onto our Royal Up bid amount?  So whatever we bid + an extra $4.5/night?