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All out brawls on Carnival ships..this is why I'm loyal to Royal


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13 minutes ago, Matt said:

Like so many things in cruising, the media is harping on this more than it should.  Certainly the news doesn't cover every brawl that occurs on a daily basis.  It's the type of news that gives cruising in general a black eye (no pun intended).

Regardless of this occurred on Carnival, this will dissuade some folks from considering any cruise.

Exactly, @Matt , we are considering a South Pacific cruise out of Sydney in 2020, the first thing my wife said was that maybe she didn't want to cruise over there, I told her to get over it, this type of thing could happen anyplace.

I've seen fighting at night clubs and bars all over the US, you get a bunch of intoxicated people crammed into a small place and something is usually going to happen, hate to say it guys but it's all of the darned testosterone flowing or being chivalrous and taking up for our significant others hurt feelings because of something that was said, IMO...

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What surprises me most is the inadequate security resources onboard to quell such a large scale fight. How was this permitted to go on for 3 days, terrorizing the other guests? Perhaps the ship’s brig is not large enough to cram 23-25 assailants into? There should have been an effective Plan B. The assailants should have been physically restrained (handcuffed). 

The ship has a duty to provide safety to their guests, from other passengers or from crew. 

One comment I read somewhere said the Captain was overheard saying something to the effect of... What am I supposed to do? Throw them overboard? If true, that tells me they never planned for such a large scale disturbance. 

If true that guests had to hide in their cabins for their own protection during a 3-day brawl, thus ruining their cruise experience, how could Carnival only offer 25% There needs to be better accountability from the cruise lines.

 

 

 

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When multiple crew start kicking a guest who is pinned to the floor that isn't going to escape the media no more than it does when police are caught doing the same. 

Yes, it will impact both the carnival brand and cruising in general.  Had security dealt with this swiftly, early in the cruise it would never have come to this and 25% off future cruises would have been avoided.   

Hopefully all cruise lines are learning from this, reviewing security response and protocols.  That is the positive side of the media coverage - it's likely scaring all cruise lines into improving and avoiding.  Much like sailing a ship into a monster storm.  There are still people hesitant to book from that but the alternative of letting it be swept under the rug doesn't bring about change.

Besides, not filling the ships is a good thing for us.  Lower demand equates to deal opportunities.

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2 hours ago, bobroo said:

If we were to get a 25% off coupon for a future cruise--I wish this would happen on every cruise my wife and I are on.

That would save me $750 or better a cruise.

Just Say'n.....

If I understand correctly, non-combatant passengers were being physically attacked during this unchecked thug-spree. If you are willing to take a thumping for a 25% discount on a future cruise, by all means, please advance to the head of the line. Meatshields are always appreciated during events like this. 

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3 hours ago, twangster said:

When multiple crew start kicking a guest who is pinned to the floor that isn't going to escape the media no more than it does when police are caught doing the same. 

Yes, it will impact both the carnival brand and cruising in general.  Had security dealt with this swiftly, early in the cruise it would never have come to this and 25% off future cruises would have been avoided.   

Hopefully all cruise lines are learning from this, reviewing security response and protocols.  That is the positive side of the media coverage - it's likely scaring all cruise lines into improving and avoiding.  Much like sailing a ship into a monster storm.  There are still people hesitant to book from that but the alternative of letting it be swept under the rug doesn't bring about change.

Besides, not filling the ships is a good thing for us.  Lower demand equates to deal opportunities.

There are several issues at play here. The first is probably the biggest issue I have noted on cruise ships. The overbearing entitled traveler, while we all feel entitled to get what we pay for, they feel the rules don't apply to them and demand, stamp their feet and threaten to complain should their every desire not be allowed. They basically intimidate the crew into giving in. The fact this works means there are not hard and fast policies in place and the crew clearly don't feel confident they will receive the backing of the cruise line should a complain be lodged. So many time I have seen people like this and it really makes my blood boil. As much as I wish to intervene the issue with people like this is they truly believe they are in the right and won't be shamed or told otherwise. 

The other issue is security training, while I have no idea what kind of training is provided by the various lines, the big issue is events like this is the don't happen everyday. You can train in defensive tactics till you are blue in the face but the training environment and real life situations bear no resemblance. When the moderate resistance you encounter in a training environment is replaced by a person hellbent on causing as much damage to others, kick, biting, scratching, grabbing hold of certain sensitive parts of the body, training can quickly go out the window as survival mode kicks in. Some will run and hide and some will revert to using what ever they can to get the job done. While the kicking is not a good look, I can understand how it came about. You also have to look at the fact the video clip is a brief segment of the entire incident, there is a lot we didn't get to see which is why its never a good idea to pass judgement as you don't have all the facts. 

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2 hours ago, tiny260 said:

I watched the 2 different videos again, and unless I'm totally mistaken which I could be, the guy in the red and yellow swim trunks that pushes the officer on the pool deck is the same guy that is at the bottom of the heap on  the video inside the ship, same swim trunks anyway.

Pushing any crew in that manner should have been enough to warrant cabin arrest or a trip to the brig to sober up.  I'm sure they have CCTV cameras all over that ship which should have provided them ample evidence to deal with that guy right then and there.   

2 minutes ago, AndyatSea said:

The other issue is security training, while I have no idea what kind of training is provided by the various lines, the big issue is events like this is the don't happen everyday. You can train in defensive tactics till you are blue in the face but the training environment and real life situations bear no resemblance. When the moderate resistance you encounter in a training environment is replaced by a person hellbent on causing as much damage to others, kick, biting, scratching, grabbing hold of certain sensitive parts of the body, training can quickly go out the window as survival mode kicks in. Some will run and hide and some will revert to using what ever they can to get the job done. While the kicking is not a good look, I can understand how it came about. You also have to look at the fact the video clip is a brief segment of the entire incident, there is a lot we didn't get to see which is why its never a good idea to pass judgement as you don't have all the facts. 

Herein lies part of the problem I suspect.  Security staff are often there to swipe cards as you enter or leave the ship.  I've seen some pretty lightweight "security guards".  They aren't ready to be a bouncer at a biker bar.  250 lb. drunk guy could throw two small security guards across the pool deck.   

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2 hours ago, tiny260 said:

I watched the 2 different videos again, and unless I'm totally mistaken which I could be, the guy in the red and yellow swim trunks that pushes the officer on the pool deck is the same guy that is at the bottom of the heap on  the video inside the ship, same swim trunks anyway.

I agree with you tiny. Good observation, same sneakers on the fellow also. I'll be looking out for this fellow on my next cruise!:27_sunglasses:

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On 2/17/2018 at 8:11 PM, Suzanne said:

Saw this on our local news site. It was from a Carnival cruise in Australia. Sounds like the brawlers were American. How embarrassing....

http://www.khou.com/article/news/nation-world/violent-brawls-transform-carnival-trip-into-cruise-from-hell-passengers-say/520080386

Nothing wrong with a little male-bonding brawl... Unless you have to figure out how to get home from a secluded port!

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14 hours ago, twangster said:

Pushing any crew in that manner should have been enough to warrant cabin arrest or a trip to the brig to sober up.  I'm sure they have CCTV cameras all over that ship which should have provided them ample evidence to deal with that guy right then and there.   

Herein lies part of the problem I suspect.  Security staff are often there to swipe cards as you enter or leave the ship.  I've seen some pretty lightweight "security guards".  They aren't ready to be a bouncer at a biker bar.  250 lb. drunk guy could throw two small security guards across the pool deck.   

On most of the major cruise lines you have two types of security people , 

One are the majority which has basic training and they are there to do the crowd control, general security and other ship safety.

The second group is the core security of the ship which is lead by the security officer , they are mostly ex army people who served in combat units (and some time in special units). the security officer will be an ex officer at the army. Yes they are not ex police but I would not try to pick a fight with them . usually they will also supervise the other group.

The number one task of thous teams is to keep the passenger safe from any terrorist/piracy  attempt.

Now the captain is the one that determine the policy what to do in such case of 23 people that started the fights , I guess he needs to consider many aspects  like should he change course now to get them off the ship which will effect all the cruise or to confine them to their cabins.

Per what we see from videos and some of the people there were on the ship , it seems they could have handled it better. 

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18 hours ago, tiny260 said:

I watched the 2 different videos again, and unless I'm totally mistaken which I could be, the guy in the red and yellow swim trunks that pushes the officer on the pool deck is the same guy that is at the bottom of the heap on  the video inside the ship, same swim trunks anyway.

I noticed the same thing !

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20 hours ago, fillmoreranger said:

If I understand correctly, non-combatant passengers were being physically attacked during this unchecked thug-spree. If you are willing to take a thumping for a 25% discount on a future cruise, by all means, please advance to the head of the line. Meatshields are always appreciated during events like this. 

No, when I see something like this about to go on, I pick up my drink and head to another bar. If you don't like what you are watching--change the channel.

 

The 25% off coupon is really a way of punishing the captain. I'm certain whenever one of those coupons is redeemed, that $ of discount is applied against that captains profitability on his/her next sailing. And therefore that captains bonus for that voyage is decreased. Cruel, but that's how maritime employment works.

 

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