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All out brawls on Carnival ships..this is why I'm loyal to Royal


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Royal isnt all that innocent. I've witnessed two all out brawls: one on NotS and the othe just recently on RhotS. Royal tends to deny they ever happend unless it is filmed and actaully one of them made it on the news as security was caught cheering and instigating the brawl. Every cruise line has their fair share. It is nothing new and they werent Americans. They were from the UK.

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I think trouble /and or scuffles are more likely to happen on short cruises. We just completed a 3 day cruise on Explorer and there were some fairly intoxicated people on board even by the muster drill on the first day.

We were told they sell as much alcohol on a 3 day cruise as they would normally sell on 7 day cruise.

On longer cruises the passengers are usually older and seem more controlled in their drinking.

 

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7 minutes ago, F1guynz said:

I think trouble /and or scuffles are more likely to happen on short cruises. We just completed a 3 day cruise on Explorer and there were some fairly intoxicated people on board even by the muster drill on the first day.

Having done quite a few 3 day cruises as well as longer cruises, I completely agree with this. Definitely more of a booze cruise.

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The cruise in question was a 10 day.   Italians I heard, but residents of Melbourne.  

Bad stuff happens all over the place.  At a NYE dinner on land in the 90's one table got into it with another over something stupid I'm sure but it ruined an expensive NYE dinner for the whole restaurant.  Fists flying, tables knocked over,  police, etc.  Grown men in tuxedos.  We left and made it home in time for the ball drop.  Complete waste of $300 ( and that was the 90s).  

On Anthem in December a kid was running amuck and literally ran into the Staff Captain.  Staff Captain told the parents who were present it isn't acceptable.  Parents fly off the handle, threaten the Staff Captain -  "you don't talk to my kid that way" and escalate it into a threat against the Staff Captain's family.   "I know where you live and I'm coming for them".  Instant cabin arrest with guards stationed outside their door.  Upon arriving in San Juan a family of 12 were put off the ship.   All because they thought their little angel should be able to punch people, run in crowds, knock people over,  etc.  

It's amazing how some people believe their cruise fare entitles them to be above the rules or be better than every one else as if they are the only people who paid for the cruise. 

Fortunately these people are in the minority, so far. 

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there was a similar incident on one of the P&O Australia (owned by Carnival corp) earlier in ththe week. It was a 3 day cruise and the people on board were part of a stag do. A woman ended up bottling another passenger.

it isn’t common for these large scale incidents where people get removed from the ship but 2 in a week get the media salivating.

i see the passengers on the Carnival ship was saying that 25% future cruise credit is completely unacceptable as they will not cruise with carnival again. I do think Carnival have been fair in offering compensation, they don’t have to offer anything. I think they are angling to get the cost of their cruise refunded. Unlike the US they cannot be sue the cruise line for compensation.

In New Zealand it is illegal to sell alcohol to an intoxicated person. It doesn’t look like cruise ships have a rule like this as some people I have seen struggle to stand when the sea is perfectly calm.

Definitely in Australia (and NZ) there is a culture of binge drinking which is why the short cruises are popular with young people. P&O are the leader in this market offering 3 comedy cruises and wine and food cruises.

In a few days this will blow over and the media will be able to get back to reporting Norovirus outbreaks.

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4 hours ago, princevaliantus said:

Royal isnt all that innocent. I've witnessed two all out brawls: one on NotS and the othe just recently on RhotS. Royal tends to deny they ever happend unless it is filmed and actaully one of them made it on the news as security was caught cheering and instigating the brawl. Every cruise line has their fair share. It is nothing new and they werent Americans. They were from the UK.

it was one family of 23 that came from Italy 

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/feb/17/cruise-ship-on-which-big-brawl-broke-out-to-dock-in-melbourne

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Unfortunately alcohol is the easy target when these things happen. No doubt alcohol contributes to a degree as it lessen's inhibitions. However the people responsible for events like this overwhelmingly have no respect for others and personal responsibility is a completely foreign concept to them. Problem is there is no easy solution to this as it's learnt from childhood through bad parenting. It's then re-enforced through generally poor penalties for there behavior. 

The family in question were apparently causing problems from day 1 of the cruise. The fact it took until day 8 for them to be confined to their cabins is disgraceful. If it is indeed the case the 25% credit is far from acceptable when the when clearly other passengers were basically living in fear for the majority of the sailing. 

The simple fact is the vast majority of people can consume alcohol and have a good time without ever cause much bother to anyone.

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13 minutes ago, pamw said:

 

Surely they have trained staff to call on when this happens.

 

 

 

23 members of one Italian Family causing havoc i guess the crew were worried they woke up next to a horses head :8_laughing:

Alcohol may have had a lot to do with it but the fact there were so many of them was probably the main issue,  they probably  thought they could do as they like and get away with it because no one would mess with such a large group. 

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Guest toodle68

Some things I noted.. they were fighting for days prior to the all out brawl. In one video by the pool, one guy pushed a crew member hard and threatened him. He and the others should have been taken down immediately, locked up and removed at the next port.  In the all out brawl, security acted like thugs and not like trained police officers. 

This getting out of hand was the crews/ship/Carnival's fault. There is supposed to be a zero tolerance to this sort of thing. Security officers need to be trained to the same level as police officers.

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Wow, cruising with prissy Germans does have its advantages! I did 3 cruises with TUI Cruises - they have all inclusive drinks without any limit. Granted, TUI isn't as cheap as Carnival, it's comparable to Celebrity. I've never once seen anything like it - I can only recall one couple that was a bit intoxicated, and the worst they were doing was pushing all the buttons on the elevator. That was actually quite funny as they were in their 60ies and some children were berating them for it :8_laughing:. I even did a Full Metal Cruise (comparable to 70000 Tons of Metal) with free beer, wine and sparkling wine 24/7 and free spirits, cocktails etc. after 6 pm. Yes. some people were drunk, but all in a good sports way. On that note, has anyone ever been on 70k? Thinking about combining it with Shiprocked in 2019...

In the video I found the behaviour of the crew most shocking - repeatedly kicking people that are already on the ground and fixed should merit a dismissal. Also assaulting and possibly destroying a mobile phone just because someone was filming the incident is a no go.

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4 minutes ago, Neaxan said:

In the video I found the behaviour of the crew most shocking - repeatedly kicking people that are already on the ground and fixed should merit a dismissal. Also assaulting and possibly destroying a mobile phone just because someone was filming the incident is a no go.

I agree about the crew kicking.  Unacceptable.

Recording video of police has got a lot of attention here in the US.  In almost all cases the law sides with the civilian recording the police as long as they don't interfere with police executing their duties.  However, Carnival security are not law enforcement, they are not a police department.  They are a private security force on private property (the ship).  Legal rights to record while on a ship does not come with the same protections or rights for civilians with respect to their government (and police).  Try recording a cabin crew on an airplane.  In the US that is grounds for major legal trouble and a flight ban.  I'm not sure where an individual stands with respect to recording security personnel on a ship.  It's likely something the Master of the vessel could enforce at their discretion.  

I also agree with the comments above that Carnival should have dealt with this earlier than day 8.  If this group was causing trouble since day 1 Carnival should have dealt with it on day 1.

I also find it interesting the Federal police simply gave them a boat ride to shore and let them go to catch a flight home.  No charges filed yet.  Free to board another cruise line and repeat.  Hoping they don't pick Ovation next January when I sail her.

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17 hours ago, twangster said:

I agree about the crew kicking.  Unacceptable.

Recording video of police has got a lot of attention here in the US.  In almost all cases the law sides with the civilian recording the police as long as they don't interfere with police executing their duties.  However, Carnival security are not law enforcement, they are not a police department.  They are a private security force on private property (the ship).  Legal rights to record while on a ship does not come with the same protections or rights for civilians with respect to their government (and police).  Try recording a cabin crew on an airplane.  In the US that is grounds for major legal trouble and a flight ban.  I'm not sure where an individual stands with respect to recording security personnel on a ship.  It's likely something the Master of the vessel could enforce at their discretion.  

I also agree with the comments above that Carnival should have dealt with this earlier than day 8.  If this group was causing trouble since day 1 Carnival should have dealt with it on day 1.

I also find it interesting the Federal police simply gave them a boat ride to shore and let them go to catch a flight home.  No charges filed yet.  Free to board another cruise line and repeat.  Hoping they don't pick Ovation next January when I sail her.

The reason no charges would have been filed yet is due to the complexities of maritime law. The geographical location of the ship at the time of the crime does matter as far as jurisdiction. Australia has the Crimes at Sea Act and some complimentary legislation. The Australian Attorney General has to give permission for charges to be laid and must consult with the ships flag state. 

 

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20 hours ago, twangster said:

I agree about the crew kicking.  Unacceptable.

Recording video of police has got a lot of attention here in the US.  In almost all cases the law sides with the civilian recording the police as long as they don't interfere with police executing their duties.  However, Carnival security are not law enforcement, they are not a police department.  They are a private security force on private property (the ship).  Legal rights to record while on a ship does not come with the same protections or rights for civilians with respect to their government (and police).  Try recording a cabin crew on an airplane.  In the US that is grounds for major legal trouble and a flight ban.  I'm not sure where an individual stands with respect to recording security personnel on a ship.  It's likely something the Master of the vessel could enforce at their discretion.  

I also agree with the comments above that Carnival should have dealt with this earlier than day 8.  If this group was causing trouble since day 1 Carnival should have dealt with it on day 1.

I also find it interesting the Federal police simply gave them a boat ride to shore and let them go to catch a flight home.  No charges filed yet.  Free to board another cruise line and repeat.  Hoping they don't pick Ovation next January when I sail her.

Although it looks very bad (the security behavior) and should not happen, I guess we are missing some information and some videos .

For why they were kicked off only on the 8 days , well this is should be the captain to decide , it might be that he was waiting to get to Australia and did not want to leave them in one of the Islands which will be more complicate to charge them (and also to get them fly back home), I think it is wrong and at least they could have been confine to their room.

 

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7 hours ago, AndyatSea said:

The reason no charges would have been filed yet is due to the complexities of maritime law. The geographical location of the ship at the time of the crime does matter as far as jurisdiction. Australia has the Crimes at Sea Act and some complimentary legislation. The Australian Attorney General has to give permission for charges to be laid and must consult with the ships flag state. 

 

The Master of Anthem told us that when in international water the laws of the flag under which the ship is registered apply.  Legend is flagged in Panama.  It is exactly these intricacies of maritime law that makes it hard to bring charges against law breaking individuals.  I doubt Panama is going to request extradition for crimes of this nature.  Drunken bar fights hardly rise to the level of making it an international event, getting diplomats involved, heads of state, etc.   Taxpayers get to pay for the police response and escort off the ship.  All Carnival can do is ban them.  That just means they only need to pick another cruise line for their next melee. 

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This just in... Carnival has announced its new interactive entertainment offering 'Fight Club' with a premiere showing on the Legend.

VP of Entertainment Guy Rowdy issued this press release: "Guests were complaining of lack luster entertainment on our ships so we decided to spice it up a bit. Guests are invited to interact with our new 'Fight Club' cast who were hand picked from the streets. We believe this new experience is truly immersive as our 'Fight Club' cast will randomly interact with guests on the pool deck and in the night clubs. Initial guest feedback is fantastic with several guests lining the rails cheering the cast as they disembarked on their way to our next ship."

Reviews from guest are starting to trickle in with comments like "I've never seen anything like it" and "I was in shock".

Based on the success of the initial performance Carnival plans to extend 'Fight Club' to more ships and is currently scouring the streets for more 'performers'.

Guests are reminded though that video recording of 'Fight Club' is not permitted and 'Fight Club' rules will be enforced by the crew. The first rule of 'Fight Club' is: you do not talk about 'Fight Club'. The second rule of 'Fight Club' is: you DO NOT talk about 'Fight Club'!

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Like so many things in cruising, the media is harping on this more than it should.  Certainly the news doesn't cover every brawl that occurs on a daily basis.  It's the type of news that gives cruising in general a black eye (no pun intended).

Regardless of this occurred on Carnival, this will dissuade some folks from considering any cruise.

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