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frank23

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Yes, we should pay people properly.  However, in my home state and some others, the minimum wage for wait staff is ridiculously low because tipping is factored in.  That is just the way it is.  So tipping is especially important during "low volume hours" in the US.   

Now for cruising, regardless of how we feel about compensation systems in general, it is important to acknowledge that the travel industry depends upon tips to some degree (even in places like Europe/Australia/NZ where amount of tipping is reduced).  I agree that base compensation everywhere in the world should be fair.

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11 hours ago, frank23 said:

So, are these people paid below minimum wage and need tips to get by? TBH I feel tipping is a scam. Pay your people properly and charge accordingly

I consider the daily gratuities as part of the charge for the cruise. I prepay these gratuities as I would the taxes and fees.  I hope all the gratuities go into a big pot and distributed fairly to the crew that aren't noticed but do a great job behind the scenes.    It is impossible to interact with the crew members who work behind the scenes but I wish to show my appreciation to them too.

I give additional gratuities to the crew I have direct contact with.  There are hundreds of other crew members who I don't interact with.  I appreciate "these people" just as much. 

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6 minutes ago, Dad2Cue said:

I consider the daily gratuities as part of the charge for the cruise. I prepay these gratuities as I would the taxes and fees.  I hope all the gratuities go into a big pot and distributed fairly to the staff that aren't noticed but do a great job behind the scenes.    It is impossible to interact with the crew members who work behind the scenes but I wish to show my appreciation to them too.

I give additional gratuities to the crew I have direct contact with.  There are hundreds of other crew members who I don't interact with.  I appreciate "these people" just as much. 

This is exactly how I look at it. I don't even look at the pre-paid tips. I include them as if they are part of the fare then tip cash through the week. 

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14 minutes ago, ScottD said:

This is exactly how I look at it. I don't even look at the pre-paid tips. I include them as if they are part of the fare then tip cash through the week. 

For the most part, I agree.  However, I do like not pre-paying them as it gives me a little leverage if for some reason I feel the need to complain to customer service.  I came close to it on my last cruise to be honest.  Everyone was spectacular except our cabin steward.  I never once met the steward and he never made a point to introduce himself to me or my wife.  We had an offer to have our clothes pressed on Day 1 for a good discount, had them ready to go and the steward never even made an attempt to pick them up.  Admittedly, he did clean the room daily despite the fact that I never ever met him.  I did lodge a complaint towards the end of the trip; however, I opted to still pay the gratuities for the benefit of everyone else that treated us well.  I made it clear to customer service that I did not feel the cabin steward deserved any of it.  I also tipped the dining room wait staff extra as I usually do ($50 each).  For the cabin steward, I left $5 in the envelope hoping he would get the message that he did not do anything to make my trip special.  I also called him out in the survey.  This was the first time I had not left a real tip beyond standard gratuities for the steward and I usually leave $100 or so because they usually take time to make sure our needs and wants are met to the best he can.

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Personally, I don't mind tipping and am happy to accommodate depending on the culture (for example in the US). But I do think Royal Caribbean takes exceptional liberties. I think charging daily gratuities, 18% on top of everything and expecting you to add tips to receipts and tip in cash is completely excessive. We are basically subsiding the staff's wages as RC doesn't want to pay them fairly while they rake in huge profits, it's as simple as that.

Personally, I do not pay the daily gratuities and never have. 18% is added to everything already and I would rather tip in cash for what I deem to be exceptional service, and I always tip generously in cash. But I just don't believe in the daily gratuities and think it's totally uncalled for.

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57 minutes ago, GJ_123 said:

Personally, I don't mind tipping and am happy to accommodate depending on the culture (for example in the US). But I do think Royal Caribbean takes exceptional liberties. I think charging daily gratuities, 18% on top of everything and expecting you to add tips to receipts and tip in cash is completely excessive. We are basically subsiding the staff's wages as RC doesn't want to pay them fairly while they rake in huge profits, it's as simple as that.

Personally, I do not pay the daily gratuities and never have. 18% is added to everything already and I would rather tip in cash for what I deem to be exceptional service, and I always tip generously in cash. But I just don't believe in the daily gratuities and think it's totally uncalled for.

Every cruise line does it, so it's not RC taking Liberties

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Part of it, I Believe, is how things get taxed .... If it is a tip to the crew then it is income to them and they pay personal income tax on it whereas if it was part of base fair the company would have to pay taxes on it 

 

Plus it lets them market a cheaper price for the cruise by not including it - like hotels that charge a "mandatory resort fee" that doesn't show up as part of rate when comparing to other hotels.

 

Basically would need an industry wide change (probably mandated by a regulatory body) for this to get changed 

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3 hours ago, GJ_123 said:

Personally, I don't mind tipping and am happy to accommodate depending on the culture (for example in the US). But I do think Royal Caribbean takes exceptional liberties. I think charging daily gratuities, 18% on top of everything and expecting you to add tips to receipts and tip in cash is completely excessive. We are basically subsiding the staff's wages as RC doesn't want to pay them fairly while they rake in huge profits, it's as simple as that.

Personally, I do not pay the daily gratuities and never have. 18% is added to everything already and I would rather tip in cash for what I deem to be exceptional service, and I always tip generously in cash. But I just don't believe in the daily gratuities and think it's totally uncalled for.

The dining and beverage packages have gratuities added, but the stateroom fare does not.  Lots of behind the scenes folks work with your stateroom attendant to make your cruise possible.  If you look at the amounts that are imputed in the daily service charge, it isn't much.  So most folks pay it as a service charge and then add cash as they see fit.  

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Let’s do the math. There was a recent post showing that the room steward gets about $4 per guest per room per day. Supposing that this is true and that Royal Caribbean is giving them that money and assuming double occupancy, that’s $8 per day per room. Now let’s assume each Stewart is responsible for ten cabins. That would be $80 per day, $560 a week or $2400 a month just in tips. Most guests leave a little extra. Let’s say on average $50 per room. That’s another $500 per week for ten rooms or another $2142. That totals $4512 a month just in tips on average. Now, I understand that they also have a base salary and don’t have to pay any costs on board. They get a shared cabin, good food, gym, internet, and other amenities. Let’s say the salary is $500 a month. Then give or take they could make about $5000 a month. If these assumptions are correct, 90% of their income is based on tips which is extremely exaggerated. Now, some rooms are for four people and suites pay more tips, then the amounts are even bigger.
I have a hard time believing they make  this much. 
What are your thoughts? 

 

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On 11/6/2023 at 9:38 AM, frank23 said:

So, are these people paid below minimum wage and need tips to get by? TBH I feel tipping is a scam. Pay your people properly and charge accordingly

Ships are not registered in the USA our laws don’t apply. They get minimal if anything per hour and rely heavily on not just mandatory gratuity but any extra tips left by guests. We started cruising on Disney when our kids were young (15 years ago) and at that time the stateroom attendant was only earning their portion of the gratuity. They also have to pay for their internet if wanted while on board. I am fine with the increased cost, these people work their tails off so I can have a great vacation. (It may affect how much extra I leave at the end of the cruise (but so does my luck in the casino 😁)

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42 minutes ago, loki007 said:

Ships are not registered in the USA our laws don’t apply. They get minimal if anything per hour and rely heavily on not just mandatory gratuity but any extra tips left by guests. We started cruising on Disney when our kids were young (15 years ago) and at that time the stateroom attendant was only earning their portion of the gratuity. They also have to pay for their internet if wanted while on board. I am fine with the increased cost, these people work their tails off so I can have a great vacation. (It may affect how much extra I leave at the end of the cruise (but so does my luck in the casino 😁)

Haha! I agree, my casino luck has a direct effect on my extra tips. 

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  • 2 months later...
On 11/8/2023 at 5:57 PM, ChessE4 said:

The dining and beverage packages have gratuities added, but the stateroom fare does not.  Lots of behind the scenes folks work with your stateroom attendant to make your cruise possible.  If you look at the amounts that are imputed in the daily service charge, it isn't much.  So most folks pay it as a service charge and then add cash as they see fit.  

To an extent I understand what you are saying. But do you not think a fairer solution would be RC paying their employees a fairer wage (which they clearly don't), rather than it falling back on the customer? I appreciate a certain level of gratuities is fine and expected, and I'm happy to pay the 18% that's added on to everything. And I will tip $1 in cash for every drink at the bar and $20 in a speciality restaurant, and I will tip the stateroom attendant as well. But I'm not paying a mandatory $18-$20 per day per person, I think the cruise fare is already expensive enough without adding daily gratuities on top of everything else. A week cruise on Icon for 2 in a balcony is roughly $7500, a pretty insane cost, and you are expected to pay more on top of that? No chance for me, I'm cancelling the daily gratuities as soon as I get on board.

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1 hour ago, GJ_123 said:

To an extent I understand what you are saying. But do you not think a fairer solution would be RC paying their employees a fairer wage (which they clearly don't), rather than it falling back on the customer? I appreciate a certain level of gratuities is fine and expected, and I'm happy to pay the 18% that's added on to everything. And I will tip $1 in cash for every drink at the bar and $20 in a speciality restaurant, and I will tip the stateroom attendant as well. But I'm not paying a mandatory $18-$20 per day per person, I think the cruise fare is already expensive enough without adding daily gratuities on top of everything else. A week cruise on Icon for 2 in a balcony is roughly $7500, a pretty insane cost, and you are expected to pay more on top of that? No chance for me, I'm cancelling the daily gratuities as soon as I get on board.

But if Royal had to pay the employees more (basically they cover what is currently paid by gratuities) it would still fall back to the customer as they would increase the cost of the cruise to cover that - potentially more as it would get taxed differently (Royal would have to pay more in taxes on more income vs the employees paying tax on the gratuities)

 

The difference is it would make their cruise rates look higher compared to competitors who would still have it separate so unless the whole industry changes it's unlikely to change for Royal to role that in 

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5 hours ago, GJ_123 said:

A week cruise on Icon for 2 in a balcony is roughly $7500

Of course, it's the newest ship that technically still hasn't even sailed and has all sorts of new stuff. It's the first one in a new class and has been expected for over 2 years. Also apparently you chose a date during summer/holidays.

Of course the prices are going to be insane.

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I may be alone with this observation but in my opinion the service was better overall when there wasn’t mandatory gratuities. The personnel that fall under the mandatory fees more seem more distant and not as personable as they used to be. I’m not saying they don’t do a good job but it’s like the passion? is gone? I’ve never minded the envelopes and I do still do it but I’m not giving what I used to as I don’t think the service is warranting. 

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1 hour ago, Smokey79 said:

I may be alone with this observation but in my opinion the service was better overall when there wasn’t mandatory gratuities. The personnel that fall under the mandatory fees more seem more distant and not as personable as they used to be. I’m not saying they don’t do a good job but it’s like the passion? is gone? I’ve never minded the envelopes and I do still do it but I’m not giving what I used to as I don’t think the service is warranting. 

I think it’s hit or miss.  I’m on a back to back.  Last week the  servers were AMAZING!
This week…not impressed at all.  We are not demanding people either but a refilled water glass or the ask about a drink with dinner would be nice. My experience is that tends to fall to the assistant waiter, I’ve no idea what mine is up to this week but thankfully the waiter happened by and could refill the water. 

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22 hours ago, TheMaxRebo said:

But if Royal had to pay the employees more (basically they cover what is currently paid by gratuities) it would still fall back to the customer as they would increase the cost of the cruise to cover that - potentially more as it would get taxed differently (Royal would have to pay more in taxes on more income vs the employees paying tax on the gratuities)

 

The difference is it would make their cruise rates look higher compared to competitors who would still have it separate so unless the whole industry changes it's unlikely to change for Royal to role that in 

Yeah, that's a fair point. Maybe I am looking at it wrong. 

It's just a personal thing for me that I think the daily gratuities on top of everything else is excessive, so I don't pay them. However I do tip generously in cash. I tip for every drink I get at the bar, I even tip at the Starbucks as I feel they are forgotten a bit and I doubt many people tip there.

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18 hours ago, JFCruise said:

Of course, it's the newest ship that technically still hasn't even sailed and has all sorts of new stuff. It's the first one in a new class and has been expected for over 2 years. Also apparently you chose a date during summer/holidays.

Of course the prices are going to be insane.

We aren't going in the summer, we are going in a few weeks. But yeah of course it was always going to be expensive being a new ship.

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17 hours ago, Smokey79 said:

I may be alone with this observation but in my opinion the service was better overall when there wasn’t mandatory gratuities. The personnel that fall under the mandatory fees more seem more distant and not as personable as they used to be. I’m not saying they don’t do a good job but it’s like the passion? is gone? I’ve never minded the envelopes and I do still do it but I’m not giving what I used to as I don’t think the service is warranting. 

Do you mean the daily gratuities? Technically they aren't mandatory as you can cancel them when you get onboard.

I agree with the general point you make though, tips should be earned and never a given right. That's another reason I find the daily gratuities so bizarre. Why should we be tipping automatically when we don't even know how good the service will be? A glaring example to me is we were on Anthem last year and the casino bar staff were dreadful. They were slow, practically ignored you at times for no reason and made no effort to be personable or friendly. For that reason I only tipped in cash every so often, whereas on every other cruise I've done I tip $1 a drink every time. It wasn't only the casino bar, in general we felt a lack of effort from the staff on Anthem.

On the flipside of that I was recently on Navigator and a staff member at the Starbucks was exceptional, very friendly and made a huge effort every time I went. So at the end of the cruise I gave him $20. That's the difference, it should be earned.

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Most cruise lines have the daily gratuities as a separate line item but they should really just be considered part of the cruise fare.  Almost any line like RCL, NCL, Celebrity, Oceania, etc. has daily gratuities implemented in exactly the same way. (Of course you could cruise an ultra luxury line like Regent where no additional gratuities are expected.)  The services staff relies on these “gratuities” for their basic wage.  I wish all cruise lines would just include this as a part of the cruise fare just like I wish hotels didn’t add on a “resort fee”.  Believe it or not there are restaurant areas in Colorado that charges a separate percentage of your bill as a “living wage fee” and then wants you to tip 20% on top of that.

The part I’ve never understood is that my daily gratuity is supposed to cover my stateroom attendant and dining wait staff for 7 nights but if you eat in a specialty restaurant you pay another 18% for gratuities on top of the daily gratuity you’ve already paid for dining gratuities for that day.  In the case of Empire Supper Club that additional gratuity you pay for 2 people is $72.  Then people say in addition to all that that they leave an extra $20 on the table.

is there ever a time the expectations of customers are deemed inappropriate?  

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4 hours ago, GJ_123 said:

Do you mean the daily gratuities? Technically they aren't mandatory as you can cancel them when you get onboard.

Exactly. And you can cancel at any time during the trip at guest services takes 2 seconds. Also you can call from your cabin and cancel at anytime as well. Then you can tip cash directly to those that served you. The automatic gratuities are only "Mandatory" in people's minds. They happily remove them from your account immediately when you request it. No questions asked. But bring cash and spread the love to those who serve you well. 

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32 minutes ago, CanHardlyWait said:

Exactly. And you can cancel at any time during the trip at guest services takes 2 seconds. Also you can call from your cabin and cancel at anytime as well. Then you can tip cash directly to those that served you. The automatic gratuities are only "Mandatory" in people's minds. They happily remove them from your account immediately when you request it. No questions asked. But bring cash and spread the love to those who serve you well. 

Totally agree.

The bottom line for me is that RC could easily pay their employees a fair wage (make no mistake it will not even be close to any kind of 'minimum wage'), not dump so many tip/gratuity demands on their customers, keep fare prices the same and STILL make huge profits. It's pure greed that only makes the people at the top richer, plain and simple. I think too many people are tricked into thinking all these gratuities are a requirement as fares may go up etc. and other excuses. It's crazy to me how think people think it's the customer who should make up the shortfall rather than the multi-national company...

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52 minutes ago, CanHardlyWait said:

Exactly. And you can cancel at any time during the trip at guest services takes 2 seconds. Also you can call from your cabin and cancel at anytime as well. Then you can tip cash directly to those that served you. The automatic gratuities are only "Mandatory" in people's minds. They happily remove them from your account immediately when you request it. No questions asked. But bring cash and spread the love to those who serve you well. 

Officially they aren't supposed to be removed unless you have a reason, like unsatisfactory service. They weren't meant to be removed "just because". But I think so many people post on these pages that you can do it, that at this point Guest services probably doesn't feel like arguing about it and just does it. 

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2 hours ago, Doug_Texas said:

Most cruise lines have the daily gratuities as a separate line item but they should really just be considered part of the cruise fare.  Almost any line like RCL, NCL, Celebrity, Oceania, etc. has daily gratuities implemented in exactly the same way. (Of course you could cruise an ultra luxury line like Regent where no additional gratuities are expected.)  The services staff relies on these “gratuities” for their basic wage.  I wish all cruise lines would just include this as a part of the cruise fare just like I wish hotels didn’t add on a “resort fee”.  Believe it or not there are restaurant areas in Colorado that charges a separate percentage of your bill as a “living wage fee” and then wants you to tip 20% on top of that.

The part I’ve never understood is that my daily gratuity is supposed to cover my stateroom attendant and dining wait staff for 7 nights but if you eat in a specialty restaurant you pay another 18% for gratuities on top of the daily gratuity you’ve already paid for dining gratuities for that day.  In the case of Empire Supper Club that additional gratuity you pay for 2 people is $72.  Then people say in addition to all that that they leave an extra $20 on the table.

is there ever a time the expectations of customers are deemed inappropriate?  

I agree it's insane, $72 in gratuities for a dinner for 2 people, plus you are expected to pay daily gratuities and leave something in cash? This is why I always cancel the daily gratuities onboard, it's too much. In saying that we have Empire Supper Club booked for February and admittedly I will leave $20 for the waiter, as I would want who personally served us to receive something directly.

I definitely think the tipping pressure they put on the customer is unfair, all tipping should be optional and nothing should be mandatory. If RC is that concerned they could add 18% in themselves, which would be absolutely nothing to them, but of course this harms profits 🤑

That's interesting about areas in Colorado doing that, I've never heard of that. I live in the UK where the tipping culture is totally different. Of course it's encouraged but rarely mandatory, as tipping never should be.

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3 minutes ago, ScottD said:

Officially they aren't supposed to be removed unless you have a reason, like unsatisfactory service. They weren't meant to be removed "just because". But I think so many people post on these pages that you can do it, that at this point Guest services probably doesn't feel like arguing about it and just does it. 

Are you sure, is that written down anywhere? I think if someone would rather have the daily gratuities removed because they want to tip in cash that's a perfectly valid reason. I do agree that you shouldn't remove it if your motivation is 'saving money'. But for me it's because I believe I tip pretty generously in cash and much prefer that.

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19 minutes ago, GJ_123 said:

Are you sure, is that written down anywhere? I think if someone would rather have the daily gratuities removed because they want to tip in cash that's a perfectly valid reason. I do agree that you shouldn't remove it if your motivation is 'saving money'. But for me it's because I believe I tip pretty generously in cash and much prefer that.

From the website: In the unlikely event that a guest onboard being charged the daily automatic gratuity does not receive satisfactory service, the guest may request to modify the daily amount at their discretion by visiting Guest Services onboard and will be able to do so until the morning of their departure. Guests who have pre-paid their gratuity will not see a daily charge during their cruise.

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58 minutes ago, ScottD said:

Officially they aren't supposed to be removed unless you have a reason, like unsatisfactory service. They weren't meant to be removed "just because". But I think so many people post on these pages that you can do it, that at this point Guest services probably doesn't feel like arguing about it and just does it. 

Officially that's garbage and totally not true. Your "reason" can be whatever the heck you feel like it should be. Would you rather people made up fake complaints against the crew? Rather than just saying I prefer to tip in cash? 

And for the record. How many times in the past 12 months have you gone to guest services to ask they be removed? Because if you haven't, you will not know they do not ask. Why? Because it is "Officially" your choice. 

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36 minutes ago, ScottD said:

From the website: In the unlikely event that a guest onboard being charged the daily automatic gratuity does not receive satisfactory service, the guest may request to modify the daily amount at their discretion by visiting Guest Services onboard and will be able to do so until the morning of their departure. Guests who have pre-paid their gratuity will not see a daily charge during their cruise.

And that means nothing. Is someone who doesn't like that system and wants to tip in cash ever going to be happy? Your playing word games. This is like suggested attire in the MDR. Bottom line is you can remove, without being questioned. Why complain about service? So now people who read what your saying will feel they need to complain about potentially great service because they feel an excuse like that is required. Dangerous game to play with a crew members job. This is why Royal seems to have a don't ask, don't tell policy. Occasionally they may say is everything OK? And trust me hearing yes followed by whatever like I tipping cash makes them happy they don't have a complaint on there hands. 

I can't speak for others but my last trip automatic gratuities would have been $240. I spent $765 in cash tips. Made specific people very happy.

Frankly the services of those I did not have individual contact with stunk anyway. Public restrooms were discussing etc. But I'm not falling for subsidizing the crews salary. Pay your executives less. Pay your share holders less. Pay your employees more. 

Next time I will trash a random specific employee to justify the quote think is gospel. See that doesn't sound right. Just be honest. Repeat....Royal Caribbean guest services does not require a reason of poor unsatisfactory service to remove automatic gratuities.

I can understand not agreeing with folks who do this. That's your right. Free country and all. But don't twist the reasons acceptable by interpreting the quote the way you see fit vs how it's actually done. And how it actually plays out. It's an option that exists. And that's how it works and plays out.

Cash tippers aren't cheap. They just don't fall for the mind games. There is nothing gratuity about automatic gratuities. 

I know...I know. I'm the devil now. 

A. It's how I feel.

B. It's how it really works / plays out when people do it.

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I'm not here to say how to tip or not to tip... I was just posting the wording from the website regarding tip removal. How  you want to take that is up to you. 

I am in the "pre-pay AND leave cash tip" camp. I don't even consider the pre-paid tips actual tips, to me its a service fee,  and I will still tip people I interact with in the same fashion I would do so at a bar or restaurant back on land.  How you or anyone else tips is completely up to them, as long as they do it in some form. 

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3 minutes ago, ScottD said:

I'm not here to say how to tip or not to tip... I was just posting the wording from the website regarding tip removal. How  you want to take that is up to you. 

I am in the "pre-pay AND leave cash tip" camp. I don't even consider the pre-paid tips actual tips, to me its a service fee,  and I will still tip people I interact with in the same fashion I would do so at a bar or restaurant back on land.  How you or anyone else tips is completely up to them, as long as they do it in some form. 

I'm all for leaving tips. I just advocate being honest (if even asked) about removal. Please folks no fake complaints against crew members is required. 

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17 hours ago, ScottD said:

From the website: In the unlikely event that a guest onboard being charged the daily automatic gratuity does not receive satisfactory service, the guest may request to modify the daily amount at their discretion by visiting Guest Services onboard and will be able to do so until the morning of their departure. Guests who have pre-paid their gratuity will not see a daily charge during their cruise.

To be honest I think you've misinterpreted it a bit. Yes, they are mentioning 'not receive satisfactory service' but I think they are purely linking that to the fact it's a gratuity. They aren't saying 'only cancel the gratuities if you aren't satisfied' I think the way it's written is different to what you suggested. It says quite clearly that it's purely down to the discretion of the guest. 

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16 hours ago, CanHardlyWait said:

 you will not know they do not ask. Why? Because it is "Officially" your choice. 

This is accurate. I have removed gratuities on the many RC cruises I've done and not once have they asked for a reason or acted negatively towards me. Anyone that does it you'll notice the 'here to help' person at guest services has a clip board with a list of rooms who have already asked for them to be removed. It's a common practice and I'm sure plenty of people do it.

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8 minutes ago, GJ_123 said:

This is accurate. I have removed gratuities on the many RC cruises I've done and not once have they asked for a reason or acted negatively towards me. Anyone that does it you'll notice the 'here to help' person at guest services has a clip board with a list of rooms who have already asked for them to be removed. It's a common practice and I'm sure plenty of people do it.

Well, that's kinda sad but if that's what people prefer, then glad they can do it without being questioned.  I'm also curious as to how service changes when this is done, as I believe room attendants and servers see who is and isn't pre-paid, but never did get confirmation on that 

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