monctonguy Posted December 23, 2020 Report Share Posted December 23, 2020 13 hours ago, KWofPerth said: I took issue with that post too, but chose not to respond at the time. At this point it is unknown whether the vaccine prevents transmission. LOL...what??!...IF the vaccines prevents you from getting Covid, then you cant spread what you don't have!!!!!.... On the other hand, if you get Covid..then the vaccine didn't work AND of course you can transmit it.... Please tell me all about the other vaccines we have that have eradicated certain diseases......but you could still get the disease and spread it if you had the vaccine...... Gears 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gears Posted December 23, 2020 Report Share Posted December 23, 2020 1 hour ago, monctonguy said: LOL...what??!...IF the vaccines prevents you from getting Covid, then you cant spread what you don't have!!!!!.... On the other hand, if you get Covid..then the vaccine didn't work AND of course you can transmit it.... Please tell me all about the other vaccines we have that have eradicated certain diseases......but you could still get the disease and spread it if you had the vaccine...... I think the media headlines have led the public in general to believe the vaccine is some sort of 'cure-all bubble shield'. The number of hospitalizations and deaths will certainly plummet considerably overall...the population will be far 'less sick'. Discontinuation...nope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWDW1204 Posted December 23, 2020 Report Share Posted December 23, 2020 7 hours ago, monctonguy said: Please tell me all about the other vaccines we have that have eradicated certain diseases......but you could still get the disease and spread it if you had the vaccine...... The last naturally occurring case of smallpox was reported in 1977. In 1980, the World Health Organization declared that smallpox had been eradicated. Currently, there is no evidence of naturally occurring smallpox transmission anywhere in the world. Parent disease: Infectious disease Causes: Variola virus https://www.niaid.nih.gov › smallpox Smallpox | NIH: National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases RCIfan1912 and WAAAYTOOO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monctonguy Posted December 23, 2020 Report Share Posted December 23, 2020 Right......exact opposite of Covid and what they are telling us.....thanks for supporting my facts and argument! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KWofPerth Posted December 23, 2020 Report Share Posted December 23, 2020 11 hours ago, monctonguy said: LOL...what??!...IF the vaccines prevents you from getting Covid, then you cant spread what you don't have!!!!!.... On the other hand, if you get Covid..then the vaccine didn't work AND of course you can transmit it.... Please tell me all about the other vaccines we have that have eradicated certain diseases......but you could still get the disease and spread it if you had the vaccine...... Covid19 is the disease that results from getting the coronavirus infection (SARS-Cov-2). At this stage it is unknown if being vaccinated prevents someone from spreading the infection. What is known is that it greatly reduces the likelihood of the virus progressing to the disease (Covid) stage. Curt From Canada and RWDW1204 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep1 Posted December 23, 2020 Report Share Posted December 23, 2020 10 hours ago, monctonguy said: LOL...what??!...IF the vaccines prevents you from getting Covid, then you cant spread what you don't have!!!!!.... On the other hand, if you get Covid..then the vaccine didn't work AND of course you can transmit it.... Please tell me all about the other vaccines we have that have eradicated certain diseases......but you could still get the disease and spread it if you had the vaccine...... Just because you don't have it don't think for a second you can't give it. It rides on your hair, clothes, hair, skin etc... To your question about other vaccines, Measles comes to mind. I was one of the early recipients of that vaccine from a Dr. Peebles (The Originator of the Vaccine) in Boston as a toddler. I still contracted the disease and carried it to the neighbors family. I would venture a guess there are many such stories for a myriad of vaccines and diseases... KWofPerth 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KWofPerth Posted December 24, 2020 Report Share Posted December 24, 2020 I will defer to JeffB at this point, for his detailed explanation on the 5th page of this thread... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rfk Posted December 24, 2020 Report Share Posted December 24, 2020 Will RC force passengers to take the vaccine in order to cruise? OMG I certainly hope so. RCIfan1912, KWofPerth, Nicci and 2 others 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCIfan1912 Posted December 24, 2020 Report Share Posted December 24, 2020 On 12/22/2020 at 6:36 PM, KWofPerth said: I took issue with that post too, but chose not to respond at the time. At this point it is unknown whether the vaccine prevents transmission. I assume this is because there has not been enough time pass since its trials to make an accurate determination. The ongoing phase IV trial will presumably give us an answer to this. What we know that it does achieve, is provide a 95% likelihood of an infection not progressing to the covid19 disease. Apologies for my layman's description, JeffB and others feel free to tighten up some of my terminology and descriptions where appropriate. You are correct, they do not have enough information or evidence that you can't spread Covid even after vaccination. They are pretty sure to almost very sure but scientists need hard evidence of something before they declare it so. My guess is once a good portion, 20-30 million people have been vaccinated to know 100% whether you can spread. Its the reason masks will still be required for some time, distancing as well. All I know is I cannot wait for the day its my turn. I will gladly go to my local Walgreens [same one I get my flu shot each year] and get my Covid vaccine. Cruise on August 22 on Oasis believe it or not, to me is still in danger, that far out. JLMoran and KWofPerth 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted December 24, 2020 Report Share Posted December 24, 2020 RC won't require vaccinations but the CDC might. The entire purpose of the Health Sail Panel and the CDC's CSO was on the premise that there was no vaccine at the time the work was done. The protocols were created based on no vaccine and they are believed to be enough to allow ships to sail absent of a vaccine. Personally I don't think the CDC plans to let ships sail until it doesn't matter if you have a vaccine or not. Lobbyists and politicians may attempt to accelerate the date when ships sail and if that is successful then the CDC might require vaccinations as a condition to sail. Time will tell. JLMoran and RCIfan1912 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedNoodles Posted December 24, 2020 Report Share Posted December 24, 2020 I object to the use of the term "force". "Require" is a much better term. Since cruising is a voluntary activity, nobody's ever "forced" to do anything. teddy, TempoGL, joshgates and 12 others 12 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCIfan1912 Posted December 24, 2020 Report Share Posted December 24, 2020 36 minutes ago, twangster said: RC won't require vaccinations but the CDC might. The entire purpose of the Health Sail Panel and the CDC's CSO was on the premise that there was no vaccine at the time the work was done. The protocols were created based on no vaccine and they are believed to be enough to allow ships to sail absent of a vaccine. Personally I don't think the CDC plans to let ships sail until it doesn't matter if you have a vaccine or not. Lobbyists and politicians may attempt to accelerate the date when ships sail and if that is successful then the CDC might require vaccinations as a condition to sail. Time will tell. I did not think of that angle and you may be right. It allows the CDC by the bad guy here if you can call it that, and the cruise lines can say we have to follow CDC rules. Everyone wins in that scenario in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rfk Posted December 24, 2020 Report Share Posted December 24, 2020 Agree with “require” as a prerequisite to board. Vaccine won’t be the one silver bullet for some time, but that combined with preventive behaviors is a big step forward. RCIfan1912, Neesa and WAAAYTOOO 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki007 Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 On 12/23/2020 at 8:05 AM, monctonguy said: Not in Canada..they had told us numerous times from our Chief Medical officer that the vaccines does NOT mean that you can't get it or spread it....that's why masks and social distancing will remain the norm for at least a year and they will not relax restrictions any time soon. This is all over every news channel, government website, Health sites, news sites etc..... Do YOU know more than all the doctors and scientists and the government in Canada? Even if vaccinated...you are still locked down and made to wear a mask and stay home here in Canada...perhaps different countries are telling their people different things. I am not a scientist..I am just like the rest of the sheep, taking commands and obeying our fearless leaders who know all. Even vaccinated people can carry and spread it..that's been pretty common news/doctor speak here in Canada now ever since the vaccines have been made available. As a Canadian and Healthcare professional I would say I do know more than the Government of Canada (most 7 year olds do). The reason they are telling you being vaccinated does not guarantee you cannot spread the virus and therefore should still wear a mask is the fact that was not part of the clinical trials and not studied. Gears, Curt From Canada, WAAAYTOOO and 3 others 3 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teddy Posted December 29, 2020 Report Share Posted December 29, 2020 I'm guessing a lot of you have probably seen this article. https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/27/tech/coronavirus-vaccine-passport-apps/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monctonguy Posted December 29, 2020 Report Share Posted December 29, 2020 16 hours ago, loki007 said: As a Canadian and Healthcare professional I would say I do know more than the Government of Canada (most 7 year olds do). The reason they are telling you being vaccinated does not guarantee you cannot spread the virus and therefore should still wear a mask is the fact that was not part of the clinical trials and not studied. So I could just choose to wear mask the rest of my life and never get it or give it, so why get vaccinated?...Everything pretty much they have told us has been wrong now and changed their mind so many times...lock downs, circuit breakers, masks, social distancing and its the worse its ever been now with ALL those restrictions added together...make sense?! SO everyone who is getting this Vaccine has NO idea if it will stop you from getting it or giving it......awesome...lol If that's the case,,then cruising is never coming back..end of story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gears Posted December 29, 2020 Report Share Posted December 29, 2020 @monctonguy Same here. I remember back in the day (March 2020) when the plan was to extend March break by two weeks and everything would open up again by the first week of April. The no need wear a mask, it's 'low risk', no need to close borders, it's 'low risk'. Now it's a province wide shutdown (again!...rinse & repeat expecting a different outcome) and you can get an $800 ticket for having too many people in your house. Meanwhile, increasing lockdown measures over the past 6-8 weeks and the cases/day numbers either still go up or stay the same. I don't think they (or anybody) really knows what to do (without causing issues/deaths from other reasons). Agree...it does not look good for cruising based on what we see today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt From Canada Posted December 29, 2020 Report Share Posted December 29, 2020 I am going to try a positive spin on this (with some less than positive "bits of data"): 1). The Vaccines (and there will be many of them) are proving to be safe and extremely effective. No amount of distancing and masking will shut down COVID 19. These temporary measures (probably for longer than we would like) are to protect: Us from a runaway pandemic ... giving the scientists time to develop the vaccines. Our health care systems ... Italy's almost collapsed early on. And, with great importance, our health care workers ... each and everyone of us should be thanking them daily. I can't imagine how I would react in their situation. 2). Some jurisdictions have done an amazing job of minimizing transmission. So much so that they are already starting up cruises. Not the exact way we would want to cruise, but the "canary in the cave" is doing very well. Below is some encouraging and disappointing "bits of data": Singapore .............Total Deaths/100,000: 5 [They are sailing now] New Brunswick ... Total Deaths/100,000: 10 [if St. John were a home port we could be sailing around the Maritimes now] Ontario ..................Total Deaths/100,000: 303 [Not good enough ... should be closer to NB results] Canada ................. Total Deaths/100,000: 402 [Skewed higher by some terrible results in Quebec] USA ...................... Total Deaths/100,000: 1,021 [The main reason the cruising industry is shutdown ... 75% of worldwide cruises originate in the USA. Once Vaccines are available, and allowed to do their job, we will be cruising again] My soulmate and I have cruises booked in NOV 2021, APR 2022 and MAY 2022. Looking at Winter 2022 as well (we are open to influence) There is light at the end of the tunnel (and it is not an oncoming train). Safe Safe, Stay Apart, Stay Connected, Curt from Canada Mike.s, teddy, Matt and 5 others 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monctonguy Posted December 29, 2020 Report Share Posted December 29, 2020 Actually...NB has had 8 total deaths from Covid..out of a population of 750,000 in 10 months...and we cant travel and are locked down with masks and social distancing..so out of a Million ppl, you have less than 1 person dying a month from it here...if you shut down for those numbers, it will NEVER open back up. So if you do the math...Covid 19 will basically have to eradicated worldwide for cruising to start.,.that aint happening for years and years based on current #'s and projections....and even with Covid 19 vaccine, it appears we can still get it and spread it... So remind me how this will make cruising happen again?!... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 11 hours ago, monctonguy said: Actually...NB has had 8 total deaths from Covid..out of a population of 750,000 in 10 months I understand your point, but... What would the death toll have been without any mitigation? I don't know. I'm not sure anyone does. NZ could say the same thing. Any entire country locked down, implemented restrictions, banned INTL travel, etc. Was that all a waste? A big scam? Not trying to argue, just curious if you think all the countries that have managed better are just faking their low numbers or if countries that have or claim to have elevated number are faking it? TempoGL, RCVoyager, RWDW1204 and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monctonguy Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 Was just stating facts..... Would have it been higher?...sure....but more people died of any # of other things during this time that wouldn't justify a lock down..strange this would.....but that's a whole other conversation I would gladly have anytime with anyone but not here. For example in BC...drug deaths have risen to more per month than Coronaivrus.....so we saved lives from the Covid by locking down..but the result is more people died as a result of that at the end of the day.....there is no winning. My point is...that cruising is NOT coming back anytime soon...the vaccine requires we still be locked down according to health officials and doctors and goverments...at least here in Canada......thats fact. Even if you don't agree or believe me or them, it doesn't change the fact....we cant travel now and wont be able to for a long time yet... Sucks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 49 minutes ago, monctonguy said: Was just stating facts..... Would have it been higher?...sure....but more people died of any # of other things during this time that wouldn't justify a lock down..strange this would.....but that's a whole other conversation I would gladly have anytime with anyone but not here. For example in BC...drug deaths have risen to more per month than Coronaivrus.....so we saved lives from the Covid by locking down..but the result is more people died as a result of that at the end of the day.....there is no winning. My point is...that cruising is NOT coming back anytime soon...the vaccine requires we still be locked down according to health officials and doctors and goverments...at least here in Canada......thats fact. Even if you don't agree or believe me or them, it doesn't change the fact....we cant travel now and wont be able to for a long time yet... Sucks! Yes but with no one driving anywhere lives have been saved from car accidents :) SpeedNoodles, Curt From Canada, RWDW1204 and 1 other 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelersNationVA Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 The solution might be that the US and foreign immigration agencies require a COVID vaccine. Then if you want to cruise, you will be required to get a vaccine. If you do not want to get the vaccine, fine. You just cant get on cruise ship or an international flight or drive across the boarder to Canada. Simple your choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCIfan1912 Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, SteelersNationVA said: The solution might be that the US and foreign immigration agencies require a COVID vaccine. Then if you want to cruise, you will be required to get a vaccine. If you do not want to get the vaccine, fine. You just cant get on cruise ship or an international flight or drive across the boarder to Canada. Simple your choice. I will bet anything the CDC requires it for cruises. The CDC will play the bad guy, and the cruise lines will be off the hook and just has to enforce the rules. Very smart and I think it's almost a definite. steverk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teddy Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 2 hours ago, twangster said: Yes but with no one driving anywhere lives have been saved from car accidents ...unless you're in Maine. For some strange reason traffic has declined but fatal crashes have increased. We don't make sense to ourselves, either. SpeedNoodles 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurdueFlyer Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 I thought the CDC can only make recommendations, they can't "require" anything. The only reason masks are required in your grocery store, office building, or on an airplane, is because of local / state government ordinances (or because the individual business decided to require it). Heck, airlines & the travel industry basically begged for a national mask mandate, to back up the safety measures that they introduced ON THEIR OWN, and were told "NO." All of this Healthy Sail Panel and SCO is just hoops to jump through, the veracity of which I fully expect will eventually be challenged in court. But I think its likely that individual countries WILL require the vaccine thus rendering most of the discussion moot. I'm ready to get the jab when its available to me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCIfan1912 Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 20 minutes ago, PurdueFlyer said: I thought the CDC can only make recommendations, they can't "require" anything. The only reason masks are required in your grocery store, office building, or on an airplane, is because of local / state government ordinances (or because the individual business decided to require it). Heck, airlines & the travel industry basically begged for a national mask mandate, to back up the safety measures that they introduced ON THEIR OWN, and were told "NO." All of this Healthy Sail Panel and SCO is just hoops to jump through, the veracity of which I fully expect will eventually be challenged in court. But I think its likely that individual countries WILL require the vaccine thus rendering most of the discussion moot. I'm ready to get the jab when its available to me! I believe when it comes to cruises they can, it would certainly have to be a national thing. I believe the CDC could require the vaccine for cruises. I could be wrong so who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jticarruthers Posted January 2, 2021 Report Share Posted January 2, 2021 On 12/30/2020 at 1:04 PM, RCIfan1912 said: I believe when it comes to cruises they can, it would certainly have to be a national thing. I believe the CDC could require the vaccine for cruises. I could be wrong so who knows. My understanding is the only industry the CDC can require anything of is the Cruise industry, everything else is governed by other bodies so the CDC can only recommend, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaritimeR&R Posted January 3, 2021 Report Share Posted January 3, 2021 If a vaccine is required, I will have to cancel my cruise on Oasis in August. I moved it to 2021 from 2020 and it is just my granddaughter and myself that would be boarding. She will be 11 at that time, Vaccines are now just beginning to be tested on 1 2-17 year olds and the results are supposedly at least a year out. Having that as a pre-boarding requirement will affect many families. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KWofPerth Posted January 6, 2021 Report Share Posted January 6, 2021 On 12/29/2020 at 9:08 PM, monctonguy said: SO everyone who is getting this Vaccine has NO idea if it will stop you from getting it or giving it......awesome...lol If that's the case,,then cruising is never coming back..end of story. This might help explain the difference between preventing infection and preventing disease, and why the prevention of infection is not essential to an effective vaccine... https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-07/why-few-vaccines-prevent-infection/13037274 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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