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I was thinking concerning a denial of boarding due to a positive test. If RCL institutes the dual test model with one five days prior to sailing and another on embarkation day. You test negative on the first test, and positive on the second test, and boarding is denied, who assumes that cost? If it is still classified as a pandemic, I understand that insurance may not be available. Does the passenger eat the total cost, or will a FCC be offered? Does anyone know if RCL will adopt an MSC approach? Also, what if it turns out to be a false positive test? If you test positive at the terminal, does the entire terminal shut down? Has any policy emerged, or are there any predictions?

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21 minutes ago, twangster said:

This is one of many details that we'll have to wait and see how it plays out.

I agree. I think @DunkelBierJayraises a great question, but it’s simply too early to know how that scenario will be handled yet. 
 

I wrote about this topic earlier this week as one of the many big questions left. https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/2020/09/24/6-questions-we-still-have-after-royal-caribbean-released-new-health-guidelines

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15 hours ago, DunkelBierJay said:

I was thinking concerning a denial of boarding due to a positive test. If RCL institutes the dual test model with one five days prior to sailing and another on embarkation day. You test negative on the first test, and positive on the second test, and boarding is denied, who assumes that cost? If it is still classified as a pandemic, I understand that insurance may not be available. Does the passenger eat the total cost, or will a FCC be offered? Does anyone know if RCL will adopt an MSC approach? Also, what if it turns out to be a false positive test? If you test positive at the terminal, does the entire terminal shut down? Has any policy emerged, or are there any predictions?

I saw on YouTube that another carrier was offering COVID insurance for pier denial at a nominal price, I believe 20 Euros.  I think we need a product like that in the US.

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4 hours ago, DunkelBierJay said:

The thing that has me most puzzled is what happens with a positive test in the terminal after someone has been in a taxi/uber/lyft, hotel, touched doors, tipped porter, luggage handled...it seems like a formula for a mess

5-14 day gestation period so anyone "catching" it in one of those places should be off the ship and on the way home again before becoming "sick"

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18 hours ago, crisgold52 said:

I know that in Canada the airlines have introduced travel insurance policies that cover Covid-19 to certain countries, but of course the US is not included on that list for obvious reasons.

Nope, WestJet covers Canadians for travel to US but it excludes coverage for cruises. 

Excerpt from WestJet site:
Effective September 18, 2020 we'll offer no-charge COVID-19 travel insurance coverage for our guests when travelling to the U.S., Europe, the UK, Mexico and the Caribbean until August 31, 2021.
*Exclusions apply. Not available for travel including cruises.

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Regarding cruising from Port Everglades in Fort Lauderdale........FL's Governor Desantis has long been an advocate of re-opening with sensible mitigation measures in place based on local data. Just speaking for Broward Co. where Port Everglades is, positivity rates have been under 5% for the last 14d straight. All other metrics designed to contextualize data points such as deaths and new case numbers using ED visits for Influenza and COVID like symptoms, hospital admissions, hospital ICU bed spaces occupied, ventilators used are all downward trending. 

To be clear, Desantis' announcement last Friday changed nothing with respect to masks and distancing. He had previously closed all bars (establishments relying on > 50% of revenue from alcohol sales) in the state. He cancelled that order allowing such drinking establishments across the state to open on Saturday. Other things like parks with playgrounds can re-open. Proprietors of both bars and restaurants must still limit capacity to 50% indoors, newly to 100% outdoors given the remaining requirement to space tables 6' apart or baring that have plastic barriers between booths. Patrons must still mask entering, exiting or moving around in a restaurant or bar. The biggest difference for both patrons and proprietors is that local officials cannot impose/collect fines for failing to comply with an existing order defining a mitigation measure. Officials and proprietors can point out violations and educate. Patrons are asked to act responsibly given the new freedoms...... mask and social distance where it is appropriate to do so.

For now, Fort Lauderdale has achieved control of the virus if the data points I mentioned above are indicators of that. Besides advocating for re-opening, resuming social and economic activity to save jobs and boost FL's economy, he has also been an advocate of avoiding government over-reach with respect to both mitigation orders and enforcement. He has opposed from the start fining individuals and businesses, but leaving that up to local officials, for failure to comply with emergency orders instead promoting freedom from the threat of government over-reach and at the same time pointing out that with freedom comes responsibility to act in the best interests of community public health. My observation is that vulnerable cohorts have been nearly 100% compliant. Younger folks have been probably 60-70% complaint and that is the basic level of compliance required to limit viral spread (along with other measures being applied in a layered way).

My bet is the stage is set for the CDC not to extend the No-Sail Order and it will expire possibly without comment on Wednesday. That will allow a restart of cruising out of Fort Lauderdale. If you've been paying attention, you will know exactly what that will mean and what the first cruises departing from Port Everglades will look like. I think it is going to take 4-5 weeks before non-employee passengers will sail. If all goes well, November 1st is the target date. First operations will involve test runs of 2-3 days with full crew and employees acting as PAX...... the entire dance is going to be very precise, choreographed and closely controlled. It's a proof of concept and the press will be unrelenting if anything goes wrong. RCCL and Celebrity will make sure nothing does go wrong and information will be strictly controlled while marketing transparency.

 

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As far as I can tell Carnival hasn't submitted a response to the CDC yet.  It will be interesting to see what is going to happen.  

Some members of the Healthy Sail Panel have close ties with the CDC and most likely already know what the CDC is thinking right now.  That could be former coworkers or close associates in a small world talking but I bet RCG/NCLH leadership have some insight that isn't public yet.

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It doesn't matter what Carnival Corp. does with the CDC. They've already got a test bed in TUI, successfully operating in Europe and their Costa brand will start limited operations shortly out of Italy in the med. boasting a safe sail plan submitted to the Italian government similar to that RCCL and NCL developed and published very publicly.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2020/09/28/florida-schools-reopened-en-mass-feared-covid-surge-hasnt-followed/3557417001/

 I can't imagine the CDC saying OK boys you all can start sailing from US ports except Carnival. 

There are just too many signals being sent that the CDC is going to relent. FL Governor Desantis' easing of restrictions and not allowing counties and cities to fine people in a police state fashion for not wearing a mask is targeted right at visitors and the tourist trade who will board cruise ships from 4 FL ports. I don't think for a minute he's not in touch with Fain and all the cruise industry big boys and knows exactly what's going down.

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3 minutes ago, JeffB said:

I can't imagine the CDC saying OK boys you all can start sailing from US ports except Carnival. 

I'm not sure.  In July they were very singular when they gave Bahamas Cruise Lines the green light for one ship.  It was the only cruise ship that was allowed.  Unfortunately Bahamas closed its ports so the CDC approval became a moot point.

CDC:

"As of July 10, 2020, one cruise ship operator representing only one cruise ship operating in U.S. waters had an NSO response plan meeting all the elements described in the April 15, 2020 Extension: Bahamas Paradise Cruise Line."

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Good point ...... I think the point of Safe-To Sail-Plan produced by RCCL and NCL, endorsed by CLIA, was that it provided guidance, not directives. "Hopefully, other cruise lines will adapt our recommendations....." was included in the submission. But, you're right, none of the recommendations are binding and the CDC could say there has to be an indication that the recommended procedures have to be adopted by a cruise line and could be excluded from cruising from US ports if they don't.

Another interesting development is that Florida Senators Rick Scott and Marco Rubio introduced legislation about a month ago that directs formation of a rule making body that would set standards for cruise line operations that, by law, ships operating from US ports have to abide by. Rules would include dealing both with the curretn COVID circumstance and future pandemics. I don't think passage is required for the CDC to make a determination that cruise lines are ready to operate safely in the COVID environment based on stated protocols and procedures that are already out there. But, as you mention, it's possible they want those to become binding and by law.   

 

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2 hours ago, crisgold52 said:

And with The state of Florida lifting all restrictions and opening everything at full capacity one wonders how this will affect cruisers coming into the state and spending a day or two there to embarkation. One can already read those Tea leaves...

Uggghhhh.........I’m not picking on you I promise but this isn’t 100% true. Businesses can still require masks. We just can no longer be fined for not wearing one. 
 

I was out most of the day today and visited 5 businesses here in North Florida. Every one still requiring masks. Chick fil A dining room still not open. 
 

When chick fil a opens their dining room you know the crisis is over! 😁

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36 minutes ago, Jill said:

Uggghhhh.........I’m not picking on you I promise but this isn’t 100% true. Businesses can still require masks. We just can no longer be fined for not wearing one. 
 

I was out most of the day today and visited 5 businesses here in North Florida. Every one still requiring masks. Chick fil A dining room still not open. 
 

When chick fil a opens their dining room you know the crisis is over! 😁

Always good to hear first hand accounts from locals.  Thanks for sharing.

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What I'm wondering is, supposing you test positive and get denied boarding, what do you do then? Fine if you drove to port, you just get back in your car and drive home. But if you flew in, you're stuck because you can't fly if you're covid positive, so you then need to find somewhere for you and your whole party to stay for the next two weeks while you self isolate? 

Methinks drive-to ports are going to have to be the way to go for the time being.

 

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9 hours ago, crisgold52 said:

So one has to wonder if the CDC will take all this into consideration as FL has over 700,000 cases now.

Yes but this is total over the entire pandemic not active cases.

In Lee health Ft Myers Fla there is only 10 active cases in the hospital as of 9/28/20.

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