Traveler Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 We all know Norovirus incidents can happen from time to time on a cruise ship. Although such outbreak can happen (and happen) many time on land in offices, schools , summer camps, army bases and many other crowded places , when it happens on a cruise ship it seems to get much more attention. As I was disembark lately from Independence Of The Seas which suffered from such Norovirus outbreak (330 people were reported suffered from it) I can tell you the reality is much different from what is reported in the media, in fact if we would not been told the outbreak happened we might even not notice it (beside mostly the buffet that went to hand serving). I think RC were doing very good job handing it without impacting dramatically the cruise experience. Nevertheless I thought it will be a good idea to give some easy to use rules/tips to avoid such cases I am sure people have more advises so feel free to add them here. Before an outbreak: 1. Use the sanitize gel whenever you can, not just the one near the food outlets , if you can wash your hands its better. 2. Use the gel not just for your hands but also from time to time to on your sea pass card (think how many people are touching it …) and even on your shoe laces. 3. If it is available, use the Wow band, it will reduce the risk which is describe in number 2. 4. When order drink from the bar , avoid eating the fruit decorations which, too many times they are prepared very early in the morning and are not being refrigerated , some time they are handled by the bartender with the same hands he is handling the sea pass cards … 5. At the WJ , even if you use the gel and washed your hand before avoid touching the food from your plate using your hands. Although your hands might be cleaned it might be that a other person standing before you did not clean his hands and you are using the same tong he touched a minute before. 6. In the buffet try avoid children food station, such has the French fries, I saw many times child taking food with his hands and even worse, put it back to the tray. If you want to take such food , try to take it from the far side of the tray … 7. Elevator buttons are problematic … use your knuckle to push the buttons (you will not touch your face with you knuckle so its better). 8. Bring your own gel and use it on the remote control/light switch/door handle and the phone at the first day. Yes most of the chance it was disinfected before but it takes 5 minutes and can help in the rare cases someone forgot to do it. 9. Be very careful around the ice cream machine , if it is not handled by a crew member make sure you are using napkin to take the waffle and do not touch it with the same hand you use for the ice cream handle. 10. When you are at shore (in a non US/W Europe) avoid drinks with ice from vendors you do not know, many times the ice can be made out of regular not treated water. 11. If you fill your water bottle use a cup to fill it , never fill it directly from the water dispenser/tank/fountain. After the outbreak: 1. Avoid the WJ/any buffet style restaurant – go to the MDR or special restaurant were only who should touch the food touch it. 2. Avoid water fountain, although it might cost more use bottle waters. 3. In the elevator do not press the infirmary button floor (usually 1) , if you need , use a napkin or something else. 4. Try to avoid elevator for short rides, use the stairs. 5. Avoid touching your face with your hands. 6. Try to avoid public bathrooms. RCIDreamer96, Bob_KY, coneyraven and 6 others 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, Traveler said: 4. Try to avoid elevator for short rides, use the stairs. If using elevator, use knuckle or elbow to hit buttons instead of fingers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted December 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 13 minutes ago, Matt said: If using elevator, use knuckle or elbow to hit buttons instead of fingers. Yap , # 7 , Even if the crew is trying to clean everything all the time its very hard to do it in the elevators Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLA Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 Madelyn D, coneyraven, DocLC and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted December 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 18 minutes ago, KLAconQueso said: If just everyone would have done it .. The number of times I saw people avoiding even the gel or worse think they do not need to wash their hands after using the bathroom ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLA Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 24 minutes ago, Traveler said: If just everyone would have done it ... Basically, "this is why we can't have nice things." whenismynextcruise and DocLC 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovetocruise2002 Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Traveler said: Before an outbreak: 1. Use the sanitize gel whenever you can, not just the one near the food outlets , if you can wash your hands its better. 2. Use the gel not just for your hands but also from time to time to on your sea pass card (think how many people are touching it …) and even on your shoe laces. 8. Bring your own gel and use it on the remote control/light switch/door handle and the phone at the first day. Yes most of the chance it was disinfected before but it takes 5 minutes and can help in the rare cases someone forgot to do it. Keep in mind most alcohol based gels and disinfectant wipes don't kill viruses. There are "stronger" things that hospitals and clinics use. Many are not available to the general public but there are two that are that I know of: Clorox Healthcare Hydrogen Peroxide wipes and Oxivir TB wipes. We wiped down everything with Oxivir and always wash before using the gels. 1 hour ago, Traveler said: 7. Elevator buttons are problematic … use your knuckle to push the buttons (you will not touch your face with you knuckle so its better). Totally agree! And rails too in the hallways and stairs. We don't ever touch those and if we need to we make a fist first so you are touching it with the tips of your fingers. Traveler 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocLC Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 Great advice. When it comes to the buffet, I always wash my hands before entering and then again after serving but before eating for the reasons you've started. I also carry disposable gloves with me, but I will only wear them while serving at the buffet if there isn't an easy way to wash my hands after serving myself. Lovetocruise2002 and Traveler 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Crush Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 6 hours ago, Traveler said: 5. Avoid touching your face with your hands. Fun fact: you can easily infect yourself with all sorts of nasty things just by rubbing your eyes. Also fun fact: Most of us touch our faces and eyes far more often than we realize, but if you consciously make an effort not to, you'll greatly reduce your odds of cold, flu, norovirus and many other infections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L454S Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 I seem to be in agreement with a post I saw on another forum. It said....If you're gonna do all that and more, just douse yourself with bleach, and roll yourself with bubble wrap. Another poster said she noticed that the wait staff in the MDR that picked up all the dirty and handled plates and silverware, were the same folks who put YOUR plates and silverware down on your table a minute later. There is NO way to insulate yourself from germs and viruses on a ship with 4000 of your closest friends from all over the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDemuth Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 6 minutes ago, L454S said: There is NO way to insulate yourself from germs and viruses on a ship with 4000 of your closest friends from all over the world. Well, you are correct in that there is nothing that can 100% guarantee that one avoids illness in a setting such as what occurred on Indy. But, >95% of passengers and crew were not afflicted and you can significantly increase your chances of being in that select group by heeding some of the suggestions offered in this thread. Lovetocruise2002 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted December 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 32 minutes ago, DDemuth said: Well, you are correct in that there is nothing that can 100% guarantee that one avoids illness in a setting such as what occurred on Indy. But, >95% of passengers and crew were not afflicted and you can significantly increase your chances of being in that select group by heeding some of the suggestions offered in this thread. Totally agree , 100% can not be prevented but few things can help dramatically without compromising the fun of a cruise. DDemuth and Lovetocruise2002 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted December 19, 2017 Report Share Posted December 19, 2017 As a frequent business traveler over the years I used to often come down with something after a business trip. A 'common' cold or whatever. Taking time to wipe down my hotel room or airplane seat area has reduced my post-trip maladies. Nothing that I can quantify in data, but I do feel it has cut down on them. A big motivator for me was seeing how many men walk out of the bathroom stalls in the airport and head straight into the terminal. I saw this on Anthem last week too. Just wow. Kathleen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firegal2539 Posted December 19, 2017 Report Share Posted December 19, 2017 Believe me it is no fun to be quarantined with the NoroVirus on a ship. Enclosed in a 180 square foot room. While on Enchantment I had Noro and for 58 hours I was stuck in my room. Also, I am allergic to all of the alcohol in the sanitizers, so I have to buy some from Amazon that are non alcoholic. I know passengers stare at me when I refuse the sanitizer. There could be reasons why I don't use it. Candie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whenismynextcruise Posted December 19, 2017 Report Share Posted December 19, 2017 Another place to be careful is the Casino. The slot machines, the chips at the tables, the tables themselves. Make sure you wash your hands well when you leave. MikeK 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L454S Posted December 19, 2017 Report Share Posted December 19, 2017 10 hours ago, DDemuth said: Well, you are correct in that there is nothing that can 100% guarantee that one avoids illness in a setting such as what occurred on Indy. But, >95% of passengers and crew were not afflicted and you can significantly increase your chances of being in that select group by heeding some of the suggestions offered in this thread. You also get to a point where all the trouble(self sterilization) is not worth it and takes a great deal away from your trip. I guess we all have our lines in the sand where the cleaning/worrying meets enjoying the sailing. Till then, enjoy the cruise you paid for. I know I will, and not think twice about Noro, or any other illness. I don't mind washing my hands a couple extra times a day than I would at home, but that's about it. Oh, by the way.....95% is not a select group. It is the overwhelming majority. Cez and jce2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted December 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2017 8 hours ago, L454S said: You also get to a point where all the trouble(self sterilization) is not worth it and takes a great deal away from your trip. I guess we all have our lines in the sand where the cleaning/worrying meets enjoying the sailing. Till then, enjoy the cruise you paid for. I know I will, and not think twice about Noro, or any other illness. I don't mind washing my hands a couple extra times a day than I would at home, but that's about it. Oh, by the way.....95% is not a select group. It is the overwhelming majority. For sure , but most of the tips here are not really takes extra times or extra effort (beside maybe the firs day cabin) , anyway this is just tips anyone can take or leave what he wants. whenismynextcruise and Lovetocruise2002 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toodle68 Posted December 19, 2017 Report Share Posted December 19, 2017 Freedom had an outbreak and we had delayed boarding whilst they sprayed everything down. Two days in and we have another outbreak. I’m not convinced this is a hand washing issue. If it was that easy, every ship, every cruise, would have an outbreak. As others have said, the crew are using old cloths and water to wipe things down. They are handling plates without sanitizing. This is a ship/crew issue as much as passengers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 20, 2017 Report Share Posted December 20, 2017 16 hours ago, toodle68 said: As others have said, the crew are using old cloths and water to wipe things down. They are handling plates without sanitizing. This is a ship/crew issue as much as passengers. I'd argue crew members (are supposed to) adhere to regulations about how to serve food, clean areas of the ship, etc. Sure, they are humans so by definition they are capable of spreading Norovirus as much as anyone, but guest conduct routinely demonstrates ignorance and lack of care towards engaging in healthy activities. It's why they came up with that "wash your hands" jingle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toodle68 Posted December 20, 2017 Report Share Posted December 20, 2017 I agree Matt. But I doubt RC passengers are any worse than Norwegian or Carnival at washing hands. If this was 100% a hand washing and hygiene issue, then we would have an outbreak on every cruise on every cruise line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiny260 Posted December 20, 2017 Report Share Posted December 20, 2017 We have had a similar discussion on this form before and I agree with what everyone is saying about both passengers and crew, but think about this, You have thousands of passengers and crew coming to and living on these cruise ships weekly, part of the check in procedure for all passengers is to fill out a basic health screening survey asking if you have any symptoms of various illnesses, seriously ask yourself, you have just spent thousands of dollars for this trip, spent hours traveling to the port, are you going to admit that you are having intestinal cramps and miss out on going on your cruise? I doubt it, your going to say it was the shell fish you ate yesterday, I'll be fine tomorrow, when in fact you could be carrying Noro or something else that you picked up at work, a taxi, the airport, the airplane, the per-cruise hotel, etc., etc. I have no idea how they screen the crew when they are coming on. So IMHO the blame goes all around, could the ship be cleaner? Yes. Could we the passengers be better at hygiene? Probably yes. A large portion of us take a flu shot every year, if there was a Noro shot should we take it before getting on a cruise ship? DocLC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjac Posted December 20, 2017 Report Share Posted December 20, 2017 31 minutes ago, tiny260 said: if there was a Noro shot should we take it before getting on a cruise ship? Actually, Tiny, there is one that is in the human clinical trial phase right now. However "Rob Goodwin, vice president and global norovirus program head for Takeda Vaccines, told Food Safety News a “period of years” could still remain before the norovirus vaccine is available." Something to look forward to. In the mean time, wash your hands, wash your hands, etc. Or do not cruise....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 20, 2017 Report Share Posted December 20, 2017 1 hour ago, toodle68 said: If this was 100% a hand washing and hygiene issue, then we would have an outbreak on every cruise on every cruise line. I see what you're saying. It isn't to say if you don't wash your hands, you will get or transmit Norovirus. If that were the case, it would be far more widespread than it is. The cause of Norovirus, according to the Mayo Clinic is.. Quote Noroviruses are highly contagious and are shed in the feces of infected humans and animals. So in order to be patient #1, you have to go to the bathroom, get in contact with feces, then not wipe, and then consume it and/or spread it. So there's a few things that have to happen first. My point is, that while it is a hygiene issue, it requires certain things to happen and not washing your hands alone isn't the only factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbk999 Posted December 20, 2017 Report Share Posted December 20, 2017 On 12/18/2017 at 7:17 PM, twangster said: As a frequent business traveler over the years I used to often come down with something after a business trip. A 'common' cold or whatever. Taking time to wipe down my hotel room or airplane seat area has reduced my post-trip maladies. Nothing that I can quantify in data, but I do feel it has cut down on them. A big motivator for me was seeing how many men walk out of the bathroom stalls in the airport and head straight into the terminal. I saw this on Anthem last week too. Just wow. The hotel room / cabin remote control can be a germ factory.... It was either on the Mariner or Freedom, using the pool deck/Windjammer men's room, and watching an older gentleman cup his hands under the faucet to drink from the sink, right in front of the non-potable water sign. All I could do was shake my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted December 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2017 On 12/20/2017 at 5:28 PM, tiny260 said: We have had a similar discussion on this form before and I agree with what everyone is saying about both passengers and crew, but think about this, You have thousands of passengers and crew coming to and living on these cruise ships weekly, part of the check in procedure for all passengers is to fill out a basic health screening survey asking if you have any symptoms of various illnesses, seriously ask yourself, you have just spent thousands of dollars for this trip, spent hours traveling to the port, are you going to admit that you are having intestinal cramps and miss out on going on your cruise? I doubt it, your going to say it was the shell fish you ate yesterday, I'll be fine tomorrow, when in fact you could be carrying Noro or something else that you picked up at work, a taxi, the airport, the airplane, the per-cruise hotel, etc., etc. I have no idea how they screen the crew when they are coming on. So IMHO the blame goes all around, could the ship be cleaner? Yes. Could we the passengers be better at hygiene? Probably yes. A large portion of us take a flu shot every year, if there was a Noro shot should we take it before getting on a cruise ship? That is a very god question which I kept asking myself every time I read and sign the form, lucky for me I did not had to face this moral question until now. But for example , I am allergic to dust so if the hotel rug is not clean enough I might have a case of runny nose , would I report it ? (the form question is for runny nose , not for the reason) as i see it at best case scenario I would have long delays until seeing a medical person who will decide if I am a risk to the ship or not. That is a problematic system , not sure how it prevents any outbreak , more like legal cover I guess. by the way in Hong Kong after the SARS outbreak they installed remote hit sensor which alert if a person has fever , not sure how accurate it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toodle68 Posted December 24, 2017 Report Share Posted December 24, 2017 Having just got off Freedom, which has had outbreaks on 2 consecutive cruises, at the very least, I would like to see more diligence from the crew and allow NO ONE into windjammer who has not sanitized their hands. I would go as far as to have a security officer back up the crew member and watch everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boston Babe Posted December 24, 2017 Report Share Posted December 24, 2017 On 12/18/2017 at 10:20 AM, Sabrinaklai said: Elevator buttons are problematic … And don't forget the menus!! One of the dirtiest thing even on land whether on a cruise or restaurant. I always wash my hands AFTER ordering from a menu. Maybe I really am OCD! LOL JennyJenny 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocLC Posted December 24, 2017 Report Share Posted December 24, 2017 3 hours ago, Boston Babe said: And don't forget the menus!! One of the dirtiest thing even on land whether on a cruise or restaurant. I always wash my hands AFTER ordering from a menu. Maybe I really am OCD! LOL I'm not sure this is true on ships. I once dropped my menu on the floor on Brilliance of the Seas in Europe and the server picked it up and insisted on getting me a new one that was clean, giving me the impression that they sanitize the menu between guests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L454S Posted December 25, 2017 Report Share Posted December 25, 2017 21 hours ago, toodle68 said: Having just got off Freedom, which has had outbreaks on 2 consecutive cruises, at the very least, I would like to see more diligence from the crew and allow NO ONE into windjammer who has not sanitized their hands. I would go as far as to have a security officer back up the crew member and watch everyone. I would go so far as to say that cruising with several thousand folks in close quarters may not be for everyone. When the germaphobe nazis take over, I will choose other travel. You are aware that those hand sanitizers do NOT kill or stop the spread of Norovirus? Right?????? You are aware that EVERYBODY onboard touches and handles that dispenser??????? Best advise I have gotten....wash your hands before entering and skip the hand sanitizer. You are perfectly welcome to look down your nose and raise a brow at me when I walk by and tell the girl NO, thank you. You are going to resanitize your hands after pulling your chair back? Right???? You do realize that your utensils will need to be sanitized(who knows who has handled them in the kitchen) You are not going to touch the tongs at the buffet, are you? You didn't touch that railing around the Windjammer, did you????? You didn't pick up that drink glass, did you?????? I chose not to get involved in this craziness and rather enjoy the sailing. Each can make up their own mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted February 12, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2020 This subject is always relevant but now with the Corona virus news its even more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyJenny Posted February 12, 2020 Report Share Posted February 12, 2020 On 12/18/2017 at 9:39 AM, Traveler said: If just everyone would have done it .. The number of times I saw people avoiding even the gel or worse think they do not need to wash their hands after using the bathroom ... I carry wipes with me everywhere as I am allergic to some of the cheap soaps used in public washrooms. Using it once or twice will maybe just give me itchy hands but repeated use for days on end, multiple times a day will leave my hands bleeding. I keep those packs of Purell wipes or "Sani Hands" (they look like long tissue packs) in my bag and for xmas, Santa gave me an entire box of those individually wrapped Clorox Wipes with Peroxide (they kill Norovirus). I'll be bringing those along and wiping down everything in our room. But just to defend anyone who has that same allergy as me, if you watch me, I WILL pull out my wipes near the sink and make sure to do my hands (even under the nails). I can't say that is the issue for everyone but it's definitely for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyJenny Posted February 12, 2020 Report Share Posted February 12, 2020 On 12/25/2017 at 5:24 AM, L454S said: You are aware that those hand sanitizers do NOT kill or stop the spread of Norovirus? Right?????? Just to share, I just learned about the Cholorox with Peroxide in November. They sell individually wrapped wipes. I have a few boxes I am bringing on the cruise with me (72 days to go, wheee!) Their site lists 30 seconds for Coronavirus and 1 minute for MRSA and 3 minutes for Norovirus. I am going to get my own personal soap to bring with me for hand washing, however, as I am often allergic to the cheap stuff they use in public washrooms. https://www.cloroxpro.com/resource-center/norovirus/ https://www.cloroxpro.com/products/clorox-healthcare/hydrogen-peroxide-cleaner-disinfectants/ At the end of the day, unless you lock yourself in your house and narrow your only vector of infection to those delivery people who bring you things, you can still get sick OFF a cruise ship going about your daily life to and from work, grocery store, etc etc. Risk Management. (I agree with your post, by the way. At a certain point you can only do so much). Traveler and KenCP 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WannaCruise Posted February 12, 2020 Report Share Posted February 12, 2020 If you can, it's best to avoid touching the handrails on the stairs. I also use automatic door openers when they exist....especially in the washrooms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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