Canada-U.S. border closure extended again amid tension over restrictions ...

[twangster]

2 hours ago, cruisellama said:

Here's a link describing the legacy US legislation guiding or limiting cruise operations.  Interesting commentary.

 

https://cruiseradio.net/the-jones-act-passsenger-vessel-services-act-1886-maritime-law/ 

 

This isn't aimed at you @cruisellama as the person who posted the link to the article but for general consumption.  

The blog post above is a reader's digest version that doesn't address the details or intricacies that make modifying the Jones Act or the PVSA unthinkable.  When you start down this path you quickly get into aspects of maritime law that involve not only domestic law but international treaties and conventions the likes of which would have massive implications to modify.

He should really incorporate immigration law into that article.   That is what makes cruise to nowhere impossible for foreign flagged vessels and that is what would prevent cruises to Alaska from happening even if by some stroke of a miracle the PVSA was modified which it won't be.  

The reason why the PVSA will never be modified for Alaska is due in part to the American companies operating US flagged passenger ships on these routes.  The legal challenges would be swift and decisive.   In addition the impacts of modifying the PVSA or granting a foreign flagged waiver are immense and impact so much more than just cruise ships.  This is why lawmakers from both sides of the aisle are never willing to open Pandora's Jones/PVSA box.  It is afterall the Passenger Vessel Services Act of which cruise ships are a small part of the fleet involved, a fleet that includes nearly all passenger vessels beyond personal use.

The "archaic" laws he refers to support over 650,000 US jobs and over $100 billion annually.  That's just the Jones Act fleet.  The PVSA fleet has similar impact to the US economy making the paltry $53 billion claimed by CLIA as the cruise industry impact look less significant.  The portion of that impact associated with Alaska is a fraction of that.  The U.S. industries and organizations impacted have not been shy joining the fight to challenge changes to these laws.   

CLIA's official position is that no member has any interest to challenge or seek to modify the PVSA.  They know better than to poke the bear.  

As a cruiser who has sometimes been impacted by the PVSA as I try to plan my cruise ship travel even I recognize the value and importance of these laws.  Here in the U.S. we are better and safer in so many ways related to passenger vessels because of these 'archaic' laws so I'll gladly accept the few times the PVSA doesn't allow me to book a very specific cruise vacation itinerary.

 

[twangster]

Looks like the border could remain closed for a while.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/trudeau-indicates-canada-u-s-border-restrictions-to-last-a-long-time

[monctonguy]

Doesn't surprise me at all..I suspect it will be at least May or June..by then  the US will have  reached high levels of vaccination(according to their plans currently) and the #'s start to drastically go down as a result.

 

By then, hopefully we will be on our way with vaccinations(although I predict it will take us about twice as long to get it done) and things will start to loosen up. Going to be a long winter and spring for us Canadians!

[twangster]

I'm curious how this will factor into the 2021 Alaska cruise season.  

Royal won't want to sail ships empty across oceans or through the Panama Canal just to have Canada keep its ports closed and ships can't sail.  

Will have to watch it progress over the coming months.

[cruisellama]

40 minutes ago, twangster said:

I'm curious how this will factor into the 2021 Alaska cruise season.  

Royal won't want to sail ships empty across oceans or through the Panama Canal just to have Canada keep its ports closed and ships can't sail.  

Will have to watch it progress over the coming months.

Could only see it work if there is legislative relief.  Any other option to make it work?  

[HeWhoWaits]

48 minutes ago, cruisellama said:

Could only see it work if there is legislative relief.  Any other option to make it work?  

Longer cruises with a stop at a remote Russian outpost?

[twangster]

1 hour ago, cruisellama said:

Could only see it work if there is legislative relief.  Any other option to make it work?  

Congress won't take up a PVSA amendment.  The passenger vessel industry beyond cruise ships in the US contributes a lot more to the US economy compared to these foreign cruise companies.  There are US operators using US flagged vessels offering cruises from Seattle and Juneau.  Any PVSA relief offered to foreign companies that employee very few Americans while paying no US taxes would quickly be shot down by the courts for the right reasons.  

Even if that impossibility came to fruition it doesn't address the crew C-1/D visa immigration issue which also stops foreign carriers in their tracks.  #notgoingtohappen

I'm actually looking at a cruise on one of the US based small ship cruise lines in Alaska.  They use small ships but they are crewed by Americans and it's a US flagged ship.  That would mean 100% of my vacation spend would help Americans.  It also means they can skip Canada if so required.  They are all inclusive so that offsets the higher base fare.

[Baked Alaska]

18 hours ago, twangster said:

I'm curious how this will factor into the 2021 Alaska cruise season.  

Royal won't want to sail ships empty across oceans or through the Panama Canal just to have Canada keep its ports closed and ships can't sail.  

Will have to watch it progress over the coming months.

If Royal does cancel the Alaska 2021 season, I hope that they cancel the entire season all at once instead of feeding us 4 weeks of cancellations at a time. Also, I don't see it in the interests of the shore excursioners to be put on hold as well. A lot of them bring "kids" up from the lower 48 to work at their business during the summer (I have a nephew who worked on a fishing boat).

[twangster]

Word is the NHL is considering an All-Canadian division for the next season to avoid border crossings.  

[Gears]

20 minutes ago, twangster said:

Word is the NHL is considering an All-Canadian division for the next season to avoid border crossings.  

Correctamundo. The sports channels up here are all over that...higher domestic ratings when Canadian teams play each other.

Oh...and the Leafs still won't make it past the first round anyway.

[Vancity Cruiser]

28 minutes ago, Gears said:

Correctamundo. The sports channels up here are all over that...higher domestic ratings when Canadian teams play each other.

Oh...and the Leafs still won't make it past the first round anyway.

Well the Leafs won’t lose to Boston first round, but you’re right....the won’t make it past first round.

GO CANUCKS!!!

 

PS never thought I’d be having a hockey discussion on this board lol

[Lovetocruise2002]

1 hour ago, twangster said:

Word is the NHL is considering an All-Canadian division for the next season to avoid border crossings.  

It's true.  Hubby has been talking about for a few days now lol.  I agree with @Gears, I told him the Leafs will still find a way to mess it up.

[Gears]

38 minutes ago, Vancity Cruiser said:

Well the Leafs won’t lose to Boston first round, but you’re right....the won’t make it past first round.

GO CANUCKS!!!

 

PS never thought I’d be having a hockey discussion on this board lol

If you fly to Toronto...after landing...the PA announcement: "Welcome to Toronto everyone! Proud home of the 1967 Stanley Cup Champions.".

[twangster]

My sister worked for one of Ballard's retail enterprises, met him several times.  Before and after that 1967 win Maple Leafs Gardens was always packed no matter how bad they played.  Can't blame him for not investing more money into the team.  Unfortunately they never pulled away from that post Cup legacy.  Once established, now it's a foregone conclusion.  Sigh.   

[KWong]

37 minutes ago, Gears said:

If you fly to Toronto...after landing...the PA announcement: "Welcome to Toronto everyone! Proud home of the 1967 Stanley Cup Champions.".

I would laugh my head off if this did happen. But then the Leafs have been dead to me since about the turn of the century, so...

[Gears]

3 hours ago, KWong said:

I would laugh my head off if this did happen. But then the Leafs have been dead to me since about the turn of the century, so...

Management heads hitting the ceiling of salary cap while at the same time reaching for the basement door. A feat that can only be accomplished my TML management, year, after year, after year.

When cruising (what's that??) and people ask where we are from, it's not uncommon to be asked if we follow the Leafs. The answer..."Well, we know about them. It's kind of like a reality show, but with a real live arena where you pay in the area of $400/ea for nose bleed seats hoping to be on TV. None of it is real."

[KWong]

This is why I sport a "We The North" lanyard and Jays/Expos/Texans caps. People can see that I have my teams - no need to ask about the Leafs. 
 

They do ask how someone from Toronto is a fan of the Texans though. 

[twangster]

1 hour ago, Gears said:

but with a real live arena where you pay in the area of $400/ea for nose bleed seats hoping to be on TV. None of it is real."

Now that I'm in the states when they come to town (back before the virus) I could go to see them play for $12.  For $16 I get a ticket, a t-shirt and a free beer.  Unreal. 

[Gears]

9 hours ago, twangster said:

Now that I'm in the states when they come to town (back before the virus) I could go to see them play for $12.  For $16 I get a ticket, a t-shirt and a free beer.  Unreal. 

We have joke in Southern Ontario...it's cheaper (all in) to fly to a US city to see the Leafs play than it is to buy Leafs home tickets.

[Baked Alaska]

On 12/9/2020 at 5:23 PM, twangster said:

My sister worked for one of Ballard's retail enterprises, met him several times.  Before and after that 1967 win Maple Leafs Gardens was always packed no matter how bad they played.  Can't blame him for not investing more money into the team.  Unfortunately they never pulled away from that post Cup legacy.  Once established, now it's a foregone conclusion.  Sigh.   

Cubs did it 108 or so years later! Look out 2075, here come the Maple Leafs (or is it Leaves)!

[twangster]

4 minutes ago, Baked Alaska said:

Cubs did it 108 or so years later! Look out 2075, here come the Maple Leafs (or is it Leaves)!

That was with a curse.  No known curse in Toronto.  They just suck.

Brand new team in Las Vegas skates circles around them.  Maybe Toronto is cursed.  

[Lovetocruise2002]

In other non-TML news, as expected, border closure extended yet again. 

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/canada-u-s-border-closure-extended-again-to-jan-21-2021-1.5227426

[JLMoran]

50 minutes ago, Lovetocruise2002 said:

In other non-TML news, as expected, border closure extended yet again. 

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/canada-u-s-border-closure-extended-again-to-jan-21-2021-1.5227426

So much for my plan to make a batch of Swedish-style mulled wine and bring it up to your igloo to warm you all up!

[Baked Alaska]

21 hours ago, twangster said:

That was with a curse.  No known curse in Toronto.  They just suck.

Brand new team in Las Vegas skates circles around them.  Maybe Toronto is cursed.  

Love Vegas! Team Ryan Reeves!! Former Blues player. Once a Blues, always a Blues! @RickinSTL can I get an AMEN?!

[SpeedNoodles]

6 hours ago, Baked Alaska said:

Love Vegas! Team Ryan Reeves!! Former Blues player. Once a Blues, always a Blues! @RickinSTL can I get an AMEN?!

Sorry, but the team to watch in the future will be the Seattle Kraken.  KRAKEN.   They will be my new home-town team! I scored.

[twangster]

13 hours ago, SpeedNoodles said:

Sorry, but the team to watch in the future will be the Seattle Kraken.  KRAKEN.   They will be my new home-town team! I scored.

Leafs fan are already mentally preparing for the team's losses against the Kraken.  

[RickinSTL]

22 hours ago, Baked Alaska said:

Love Vegas! Team Ryan Reeves!! Former Blues player. Once a Blues, always a Blues! @RickinSTL can I get an AMEN?!

AMEN!!! lol 

 

[Baked Alaska]

18 hours ago, SpeedNoodles said:

Sorry, but the team to watch in the future will be the Seattle Kraken.  KRAKEN.   They will be my new home-town team! I scored.

Okay, I have to agree with this! I will now have three: Blue, Knights, and the Kraken! KRAKEN!! Release the KRAKEN!! The Knights will then slay the Kraken and the Blues will. . . will. . . ummmm. . . Gloria them (Blues Fan will get that one)!