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What’s your deal breaker?


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On 5/24/2020 at 6:07 AM, PurdueFlyer said:

face mask is probably my deal breaker unless it's required in very limited quantities.  Getting a q-tip jammed up my nostril at the pier in order to get onboard is a close second.  

Also, the whole "guilty until proven innocent" phase alot of governments are going through (ie, 14 day quarantine when you return from XYZ whether you have symptoms or not).  We don't do this for any other illness.  It needs to stop.  

Really guilty until innocent. Here in Australia we have had a 14 day quarantine on all returning travellers put in hotels by the Govt and enforced. So far there have been over 500 cases out of these travellers who had no symptoms on return but were found to be positive some time during this quarantine period. So what happens when you first return home, you nee to get shopping done so you are out in the public and exponentially could be infecting hundreds of people.

I guess this is why our country has been so successful in combating this virus.

 

 

 

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I get that a lot of people find their "deal breaker" to be having to wear masks, but I just hope if people decide to sail, they'll do as they're told and won't try to push back against RCCL's requirem

There are a lot of first responders out there on the front lines that wear masks.  Let me know when you want to go up to the firehouse with me to tell the firefighters that real men don’t wear masks. 

In that other thread you posted a graphic showing that 35% of all cases are asymptomatic.  These people don't know they are infected and never show any signs of the infection but carry the virus and s

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11 hours ago, tonyfsu21 said:

A672521E-56D6-4008-B180-FF045E6415B9.jpeg

Hi! These are vary valid questions. Unfortunately, the answer cannot be summed up in a meme. If you are really interested in the answer, feel free to review the literature below. These are all peer-reviewed research articles (and some of them are systematic reviews and meta-analysis). 

The TLDR: Masks work, but we use 6 ft because not everyone can/will a mask. 6ft work because science has shown social distancing to be the easiest intervention to implement on a grand scale. Social distancing COMBINED with masks substantially decreases the likelihood of spreading the virus. The lockdown is in place because science has shown that to be the BEST method to prevent the pandemic from spreading. 

 

Ahmed, F., Zviedrite, N., & Uzicanin, A. (2018). Effectiveness of workplace social distancing measures in reducing influenza transmission: a systematic review. BMC Public Health18(1), N.PAG. doi:10.1186/s12889-018-5446-1

Greer, A. L. (2013). Can informal social distancing interventions minimize demand for antiviral treatment during a severe pandemic? BMC Public Health13(1). doi: 10.1186/1471-2458-13-669

Hatchett, R., Mecher, C., & Lipsitch, M. (2007). Public health interventions and epidemic intensity during the 1918 influenza pandemic. The National Academy of Sciences, 104(18), 75825-7587. doi:10.1073/pnas.0610941104

Jefferson, T., Foxlee, R., Del Mar, C., Dooley, L., Ferroni, E., Hewak, B., & Rivetti, A. (2007). Interventions for the interruption or reduction of the spread of respiratory viruses. Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews, 2007(4), 1-162. doi:10.1002/14651858.CD006207 pub4/full

Kelso, J. K., Milne, G. J., & Kelly, H. (2009). Simulation suggests that rapid activation of social distancing can arrest epidemic development due to a novel strain of influenza. BMC Public Health, 9(1). doi: 10.1186/1471-2458-9-117

Nicol, G. E., Piccirillo, J. F., Mulsant, B. H., & Lenze, E. J. (2020). Action at a Distance: Geriatric Research during a Pandemic. Journal of the American Geriatrics Society. doi: doi: 10.1111/jgs.16443

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Not sure that i have "a deal breaker" yet ... the further it goes towards being a restricted, not fun, pain in the ass as opposed to a relaxing "do what you want, when you want, where you want" get away from the real world the more likely it is to be a dealbreaker.

Masks sound like they would probably be a deal breaker for me .. but i wont know for sure until i hear about it ... i'm not wearing one in my regular life at the moment so to go on vacation and have to wear one sounds like a problem.

Having to make reservations to use facilities, etc. would probably be a deal breaker .. again the point of going on vacation is to relax and enjoy not to have to sit in my cabin waiting for my time slot at the pool to open up.

We shall see, i'm ready to go but it will depend a lot on what the new experience looks like.

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We have a spring break 2021 cruise booked and my deal breaker will be how the kids club/adventure ocean is to be managed.  My goal for vacation is to have some breaks in the day/evening along with lots of family time.  If the kids club isn't operating or is overly restrictive, along with other things on the boat, I won't be going.

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14 days quarantine will be the deal breaker for me  and currently we still have it.

Regarding the mask , I do wear it today in public as it required here by low, but when I am at my office I can take it down (and I am very happy to do so) . by the way  the mask main task is to avoid spreading the C19 if you have one , not to protect you from getting it (for this the masks are not good enough) . In other words if you cough , its better you cough to the mask and no to the air.  

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22 hours ago, tonyfsu21 said:

A672521E-56D6-4008-B180-FF045E6415B9.jpeg

Here's the best analogy I've heard.

You're at a nudist camp and need to pee. If you're 6 feet apart, you won't pee on anyone and no one will pee on you.

If someone has on pants, even if you're less than 6 feet apart, less pee will get on them, and if they pee, less pee will get on you.

If you both have on pants, no on gets much pee on them.

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Deal breakers:

1. Active virus hotspots still in places where other cruisers are likely to be coming from.

2. Reports/reviews of reopened cruises that commonly mention fellow passengers that cannot respect social distancing or heightened hygiene rules onboard, or where boarding screening is reported to be lax.

3. Limitations regarding transit/entry for ports/countries.

4. Quarantine required on returning home.

5. *Any* future incident at all that involves a cruise line failing to properly disclose/inform a known risk of exposure to embarking passengers. On this, all cruise lines will have to be totally transparent, or there will be no return to cruising for me at all!

Because of the likelihood of #1 and #4, we did a Lift & Shift of our Fall 2020 family cruise to 2021. The 2021 cruise will then also depend on #2 and #5 as well.

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22 hours ago, alamode123 said:

Here's the best analogy I've heard.

You're at a nudist camp and need to pee. If you're 6 feet apart, you won't pee on anyone and no one will pee on you.

If someone has on pants, even if you're less than 6 feet apart, less pee will get on them, and if they pee, less pee will get on you.

If you both have on pants, no on gets much pee on them.

If you're at a nudist camp, why would either party have on pants? :35_thinking:

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I personally don't see how any changes on board is going to make much of a different for a virus that is past via respiratory droplets. You can clean all the surfaces you want, but people in an elevator, walking down the corridor/boardwalk, in the theater, or around a bar/pool etc and game over if 1 person is asymptomatic. Masks are proving to be the significant factor in reducing the spread of the virus and yet a huge number of people refuse to wear one when inside public buildings.

Our deal breakers are:

1. The 14 day home quarantine my wife will have to take using PTO and then unpaid leave. She already had to use 2 weeks when we got back from England in March.
2. That there appears to be no answers (yet) on what happens if there is an active or suspected covid case on board a ship.  Will ports be open for that ship?  will it be refused entry? Will the US home port refuse the ship returning as planned?  Will the passengers will allowed to get out as normal or will the whole ship be quarantined?  Will airlines allow you to fly if they know you just got on a cruise ship where there were covid cases?

I continue to read a lot about changes on board ship. So far I have seen nothing on the logistics of the an active case on board a ship.

 

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14 hours ago, GrandmaAirplane said:

Deal breakers:

1. Active virus hotspots still in places where other cruisers are likely to be coming from.

2. Reports/reviews of reopened cruises that commonly mention fellow passengers that cannot respect social distancing or heightened hygiene rules onboard, or where boarding screening is reported to be lax.

3. Limitations regarding transit/entry for ports/countries.

4. Quarantine required on returning home.

5. *Any* future incident at all that involves a cruise line failing to properly disclose/inform a known risk of exposure to embarking passengers. On this, all cruise lines will have to be totally transparent, or there will be no return to cruising for me at all!

Because of the likelihood of #1 and #4, we did a Lift & Shift of our Fall 2020 family cruise to 2021. The 2021 cruise will then also depend on #2 and #5 as well.

My goodness, I don't think you will be sailing again for a long time....if ever.

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1 hour ago, L454S said:

My goodness, I don't think you will be sailing again for a long time....if ever.

I am hoping to - but you’re right, I may not. I am not the only one thinking these things out loud.

It’s really the corporate response to future outbreak incidents that will be the true lasting deal breaker for me...

Not the absence of incidents, but the trust in the response.

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14 minutes ago, bytheslice said:

If I have to wear a mask, I am not cruising. Real men don't wear masks!

Also, if Royal increases the gratuities charge, no cruising for this real man.

There are a lot of first responders out there on the front lines that wear masks.  Let me know when you want to go up to the firehouse with me to tell the firefighters that real men don’t wear masks. 

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6 hours ago, bretts173 said:

Your number 1 is the deal breaker for me to go. All people should have a certificate of vaccination.

 

There's a great possibility that there may never be a vaccine, i say this based on several articles i've see.  They say only time will tell.

Things to ponder on, what if this becomes the new norm just like influenzas, because it is a virus after all. 

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/no-vaccine-for-coronavirus-a-possibility/news-story/34e678ae205b50ea983cc64ab2943608

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/heres-exactly-where-were-at-with-vaccines-and-treatments-for-covid-19#Searching-for-effective-treatments

 

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8 hours ago, bretts173 said:

Your number 1 is the deal breaker for me to go. All people should have a certificate of vaccination.

Do you also think I should be required to show a certificate of vaccination for MMR? Oh, wait - they didn't give "certificates" in the 60's when I had SEPARATE shots for measles (both kinds) or for when I suffered a case of the mumps.

How about proof that I got a flu shot this year if sailing during flu "season" as well?

Even if a vaccine is developed, there is no way the cruise lines will require "proof" that each passenger received it (or already recovered from the disease).

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Things that make you go hmmmm.... What is the original intent/purpose of surgical masks? 

Surgical mask

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
 
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Surgical mask
Surgical face mask.jpg
A surgical mask
Other names Procedure mask, medical mask, isolation mask, laser mask, fluid-resistant masks, face mask

A surgical mask, also known as a face mask, is intended to be worn by health professionals during healthcare procedures.[1][2] It is designed to prevent infections in patients and treating personnel by catching bacteria shed in liquid droplets and aerosols from the wearer's mouth and nose.[3][4][5] They are not designed to protect the wearer from breathing in airborne bacteria or viruses whose particles are smaller. With respect to some infections like influenza they appear as effective as respirators, such as N95 or FFP masks;[6] though the latter provide better protection in laboratory experiments due to their material, shape and tight seal.[7][8]

Surgical masks vary by quality and levels of protection. Despite their name, not all surgical masks are appropriate to be used during surgery. Surgical masks may be labeled as surgical, isolation, dental, or medical procedure masks.[9] Chinese health officials distinguish between medical (non-surgical) and surgical masks.[10]

Surgical masks are made of a nonwoven fabric created using a melt blowing process. They came into use in the 1960s and largely replaced cloth facemasks in developed countries. The use of surgical masks during the COVID-19 pandemic has been a subject of debate,[11] as shortages of surgical masks is a central issue.[12][13]

Surgical masks are popularly worn by the general public all year round in East Asian countries like China, Japan and South Korea to reduce the chance of spreading airborne diseases to others, and to prevent the breathing in of airborne dust particles created by air pollution.[14] Additionally, surgical masks have become a fashion statement, particularly in contemporary East Asian culture bolstered by its popularity in Japanese and Korean pop culture which have a big impact on East Asian youth culture.[15][16]

Mask's are not designed for those that aren't sick to wear, but for those that are sick to keep from spreading it.  It's like we've got this thing turned around! 

Why can't we go back to the way it was intended/designed for?

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