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1 hour ago, jeffmw said:

I think you're misunderstanding me. I don't know where the line is, nor do I have any idea how rampant drug use is on Atlantis cruises. It was you who said "yes, a lot of guests do bring on drugs, but this is illegal activity."

I was merely saying that the fact that bringing drugs onto the boat is illegal doesn't necessarily absolve RCI or Atlantis from fault. And legal precedent definitely would back me up on that. Of course, ultimately people are responsible for their own actions, but (and I'm by no means saying this is the case; this is merely hypothetical) if Atlantis were fostering a wild, rave-like atmosphere without sufficient oversight and were turning a blind eye to drug use, they absolutely could be held liable for that, as they should be. 

Event producers, venue operators, etc., can be (and are often) held responsible for failing to uphold a safe atmosphere for its patrons. If a person is sexually assaulted at a concert, the person who assaulted them can obviously be charged, but it's also very common for the promoter or venue to be sued for not maintaining a safe environment. When there is violence or sexual harassment at workplaces, employers are sued all the time for permitting a hostile work environment. Not to get political, but after what happened last January in Washington, investigations aren't just focused on the people who entered the Capitol Building. They're also into whether or not certain individuals/government officials may have incited the behavior. Those people weren't directly involved, but they may have been very directly responsible for creating the atmosphere that allowed it to happen.

I'm not making any judgements on the atmosphere or safety of Atlantis events. I have no idea. You had said a lot of guests bring drugs, so I said that Royal and Atlantis could be held responsible for that. 

 

 

I appreciate your comment and well thought analysis, but I respectfully disagree.  My opinion is such that: Atlantis and RCI have clearly set a policy/rule and expectations. The onus is on the guest, fully. What guests willingly do to their own bodies isn’t the business of Atlantis or RCI, less such actions should cause obvious or catastrophic issues for others in the affinity group.

You are comparing this to cases of violence and sexual harassment. Underground illegal drug use is not an environmental factor of what is provided, promised, or created by Atlantis and its not something that Atlantis nor RCI can oversee nor should they be expected to. They are totally absolved by legal precedents.  Intentions can have a lot to do with court judgement and Atlantis, as previously mentioned, does not plan drug parties.  They simply provide the parties that they advertise and do not intend for the drug use to happen on any of their charters.

Let’s hypothetical for worst case scenario and say the companies turn a blind eye to this use of drugs.  How could it be proven, that the companies know of the problem at all?  Without a paper trail, the precedents would back me up that if there’s no documented records of these harms, hearsay probably isn’t enough to do much with.  Even looking back year after year, drug overdose on Atlantis is not common enough to trend.  Did guests report other guests for using and are these incidents logged somewhere?  I guarantee that probably never happens enough for a paper trail if at all.  In the case of the guy getting dead, ok, that brings ONE instance of illegal drug use to light.  Out of 5,000 guests, as far as the companies know, that is .02% of the cruise charter guests makeup that used illegal drugs and on paper, he’s the only one out of all of them.

If Atlantis or RCI were allowing for there to be a bowl of drugs out on the open party floor, ok, then that is an environmental impact and harm and I would then expect them to own consequences of such.

The analogy of January events falls flat. Its been over a year and nothing has happened to those big figure heads “responsible” (holding my breath pending the “investigation”). A reasonable person can tell us that when going to the campus of the capital, a violent mob is not expected to be the environment in any case in this area, ever.  On a party cruise, the party environment is expected and delivered. If Atlantis told guests “GO go, like you’ve never gone before…now is the time, brave ones, now is the time…to be strong and use illegal drugs!” …then we have a case for culpability on the 3rd party and the line.  But they aren’t inciting like that.

This is only my opinion, mind you, so nothing personal at all.  Just getting my points in for a lively discussion.

The Groove Cruise (A mostly straight party EDM cruise) and other party charters have similar underground things that happen on their charter cruises.  (NSFW so don’t YouTube or google at work about this one).

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10 hours ago, SeanOfTheSeas said:

I appreciate your comment and well thought analysis, but I respectfully disagree.  My opinion is such that: Atlantis and RCI have clearly set a policy/rule and expectations. The onus is on the guest, fully. What guests willingly do to their own bodies isn’t the business of Atlantis or RCI, less such actions should cause obvious or catastrophic issues for others in the affinity group.

You are comparing this to cases of violence and sexual harassment. Underground illegal drug use is not an environmental factor of what is provided, promised, or created by Atlantis and its not something that Atlantis nor RCI can oversee nor should they be expected to. They are totally absolved by legal precedents.  Intentions can have a lot to do with court judgement and Atlantis, as previously mentioned, does not plan drug parties.  They simply provide the parties that they advertise and do not intend for the drug use to happen on any of their charters.

Let’s hypothetical for worst case scenario and say the companies turn a blind eye to this use of drugs.  How could it be proven, that the companies know of the problem at all?  Without a paper trail, the precedents would back me up that if there’s no documented records of these harms, hearsay probably isn’t enough to do much with.  Even looking back year after year, drug overdose on Atlantis is not common enough to trend.  Did guests report other guests for using and are these incidents logged somewhere?  I guarantee that probably never happens enough for a paper trail if at all.  In the case of the guy getting dead, ok, that brings ONE instance of illegal drug use to light.  Out of 5,000 guests, as far as the companies know, that is .02% of the cruise charter guests makeup that used illegal drugs and on paper, he’s the only one out of all of them.

If Atlantis or RCI were allowing for there to be a bowl of drugs out on the open party floor, ok, then that is an environmental impact and harm and I would then expect them to own consequences of such.

The analogy of January events falls flat. Its been over a year and nothing has happened to those big figure heads “responsible” (holding my breath pending the “investigation”). A reasonable person can tell us that when going to the campus of the capital, a violent mob is not expected to be the environment in any case in this area, ever.  On a party cruise, the party environment is expected and delivered. If Atlantis told guests “GO go, like you’ve never gone before…now is the time, brave ones, now is the time…to be strong and use illegal drugs!” …then we have a case for culpability on the 3rd party and the line.  But they aren’t inciting like that.

This is only my opinion, mind you, so nothing personal at all.  Just getting my points in for a lively discussion.

The Groove Cruise (A mostly straight party EDM cruise) and other party charters have similar underground things that happen on their charter cruises.  (NSFW so don’t YouTube or google at work about this one).


I’d bet money you’re an Atlantis employee or the owner.  You’ve never been a member before and as of now have only posted on this thread.  I don't see a regular person joining just to come here and repeatedly defend Atlantis in very lengthy posts over and over.  Don’t want to argue, …… that’s just my opinion.

 

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10 hours ago, SeanOfTheSeas said:

You are comparing this to cases of violence and sexual harassment. Underground illegal drug use is not an environmental factor of what is provided, promised, or created by Atlantis and its not something that Atlantis nor RCI can oversee nor should they be expected to. They are totally absolved by legal precedents.  Intentions can have a lot to do with court judgement and Atlantis, as previously mentioned, does not plan drug parties.  They simply provide the parties that they advertise and do not intend for the drug use to happen on any of their charters.

Again, I'm not making any judgements on Atlantis nor their cruises. I was only saying that they could be held liable for fostering an atmosphere that is potentially dangerous. 

What you're saying, though, is not in line with legal precedent. A promoter or venue does not have to explicitly promote drug use in order to be held liable for an incident at their event.

Here's an example of a case in 2015 when a woman's family sued Live Nation over her drug-related death at a rave-like festival. The case alleged "negligence and a breach of their duties to protect people from distributing or consuming illegal drugs." Basically it's exactly what I said earlier. From a legal standpoint, an event promoter cannot simply say, "I didn't provide the drugs or tell them they should take them, so I'm off the hook."  As the organizer of the event, if it's found they aren't doing enough to stop it, they can be held liable. 

There's no allegation that Live Nation promoted this festival as a drug party. It merely accuses them of not doing enough to protect the people at their event. Live Nation was unable to get the case thrown out and it was settled out of court, which leads one to believe they felt there was substance to the allegations.

Again -- and I cannot stress this enough -- I am not making any judgements on how much Atlantis does to protect its guests. I am merely saying an event promoter or venue absolutely could (and should) be held responsible if they don't do enough to protect their guests, or if they foster an environment that is conducive to dangerous activity. 

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2 hours ago, ChrisK2793 said:

You’ve never been a member before and as of now have only posted on this thread

I stalked this board for months before deciding to join and post. 

2 hours ago, ChrisK2793 said:

I don't see a regular person joining just to come here and repeatedly defend Atlantis in very lengthy posts over and over.

If I was an member of these communities and had participated in these events, I would provide my perspective as well. I'm a huge Star Trek fan, and there's a Star Trek cruise coming up that I would LOVE to be on! If the Star Trek community was getting blasted for having bat'leth tournaments in Studio B, I'd be on here defending it too 😄 

I appreciate the perspective of someone who has participated in these events. The image in the original post is shocking relative to our careful return to cruising over the past year, but when I learned everyone is 100% vaccinated and double-tested, I was a lot more comfortable with the photo.

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20 minutes ago, MattG said:

. The image in the original post is shocking relative to our careful return to cruising over the past year, but when I learned everyone is 100% vaccinated and double-tested, I was a lot more comfortable with the photo.


Considering the CDC has said for months that the vaccine does NOT stop transmission or spread of Covid-19 and only lessens its severity ….. 100% vaccinated isn’t an excuse for allowing things to happen on one cruise that aren’t allowed on another cruise.  FOR EXAMPLE ….. Norwegian has had a 100% vaccinated only allowed to cruise policy all along (no unvaccinated kids allowed) and they’ve had just as many outbreaks of Covid on their ships as Royal has had.

Also when I had covid ….. I tested negative on an antigen test on Monday, negative again on an antigen test on Wednesday.  It wasn’t until I had a PCR test on Saturday, 5 days later, that I actually got a positive result 2 days after that on Monday.   So double testing doesn’t mean much either. 

 

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4 hours ago, ChrisK2793 said:


I’d bet money you’re an Atlantis employee or the owner.  You’ve never been a member before and as of now have only posted on this thread.  I don't see a regular person joining just to come here and repeatedly defend Atlantis in very lengthy posts over and over.  Don’t want to argue, …… that’s just my opinion.

 

We don’t have to argue, but you’re wrong about that. I’m a 7x Atlantis guest, and I’m very critical of Atlantis.  They are very disorganized, their customer service is crap, and they’ve burned me before.  However, there is no other gay full ship charter company that provides the experience Atlantis does so many of us keep going back.  

I am critical of Atlantis for the aforementioned, however, in this topic of drug use, its very clear the onus is on the guest.  I’ll be fair to Atlantis.  It’s not on them in this situation.

Not being a member for long on a public discussion board, means pretty much nothing.

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1 hour ago, ChrisK2793 said:


Considering the CDC has said for months that the vaccine does NOT stop transmission or spread of Covid-19 and only lessens its severity ….. 100% vaccinated isn’t an excuse for allowing things to happen on one cruise that aren’t allowed on another cruise.  FOR EXAMPLE ….. Norwegian has had a 100% vaccinated only allowed to cruise policy all along (no unvaccinated kids allowed) and they’ve had just as many outbreaks of Covid on their ships as Royal has had.

Also when I had covid ….. I tested negative on an antigen test on Monday, negative again on an antigen test on Wednesday.  It wasn’t until I had a PCR test on Saturday, 5 days later, that I actually got a positive result 2 days after that on Monday.   So double testing doesn’t mean much either. 

 

You’ll get no arguments there.  I think these vax and test efforts do lessen the blow vs no policy at all, however.   It might not be foul proof but might reduce the cases.

I think the latest round of business is for the cruise lines just to see if they can return. The cruise industry has been eviscerated by Covid so they’re all eager to return to service and get that $$$!

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2 hours ago, jeffmw said:

Again, I'm not making any judgements on Atlantis nor their cruises. I was only saying that they could be held liable for fostering an atmosphere that is potentially dangerous. 

What you're saying, though, is not in line with legal precedent. A promoter or venue does not have to explicitly promote drug use in order to be held liable for an incident at their event.

Here's an example of a case in 2015 when a woman's family sued Live Nation over her drug-related death at a rave-like festival. The case alleged "negligence and a breach of their duties to protect people from distributing or consuming illegal drugs." Basically it's exactly what I said earlier. From a legal standpoint, an event promoter cannot simply say, "I didn't provide the drugs or tell them they should take them, so I'm off the hook."  As the organizer of the event, if it's found they aren't doing enough to stop it, they can be held liable. 

There's no allegation that Live Nation promoted this festival as a drug party. It merely accuses them of not doing enough to protect the people at their event. Live Nation was unable to get the case thrown out and it was settled out of court, which leads one to believe they felt there was substance to the allegations.

Again -- and I cannot stress this enough -- I am not making any judgements on how much Atlantis does to protect its guests. I am merely saying an event promoter or venue absolutely could (and should) be held responsible if they don't do enough to protect their guests, or if they foster an environment that is conducive to dangerous activity. 

I don’t think you’re being accused of judgement.  The ultimate precedent is the last 30 years that Atlantis has been in business.  The charter company and the 3rd party know what happens at these events.  They’ve been turning their heads away for the last 30 years and since then have taken zero ownership and have successfully gotten away with it.  Each and every year.  They will continue to do so, I would imagine.  Atlantis nor any other charter will own this, as they shouldn’t.

And, as the cruise lines try to come back from the Covid situation, it isn’t in their best interest to turn down full ship charter clients.  The Atlantis group also buys a lot of alcohol.   At a base rate of 8-12 million dollars to charter a ship, plus percentage of ancillary sales…. (you can see the costs of full ship charter published on a public accessible RCI page). 

By this logic you present, guests should be able to sue the cruise line from being over-served alcohol.  Or even food…  “The cruise line made me drink, leading to me falling overboard from a 4 foot high guard rail!!”  “The cruise line made me fat!”  …these claims are ridiculous, but we know people have tried to take these type of cases to court. The cruise line didn’t do enough to protect the guests …from themselves. 

There is a legal case pending RCI now. Sam Annello, A grandfather lifted his infant granddaughter up and over a 4 foot railing and out of an open window.  He held the child out of the window frame for over half a minute before the unimaginable happened.  The cruise line has a video evidence of this occurrence.  The greedy family, mother even a prosector, is suing the cruise line. The court of public opinion overwhelmingly blames the grandfather, a 50 year old adult man, not the cruise line.  A court ruling in the favor of the plaintiff would be crazy. The line shouldn’t be held responsible.   

In the legal case you cite, it was settled out of court.  There doesn’t have to be any substance for that kind of outcome.  That could have been for the reason only to have good optics or meet a legal fee budget cost analysis.  There could have been any reason for settlement.  We don’t get a finite outcome from a case of settlement for undisclosed details.

In the scenario of this discussion, Atlantis should not, and will not, be held responsible.  You will have a hard time proving any negligence exists.

 

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6 hours ago, SeanOfTheSeas said:

There is a legal case pending RCI now. Sam Annello, A grandfather lifted his infant granddaughter up and over a 4 foot railing and out of an open window.  He held the child out of the window frame for over half a minute before the unimaginable happened.  The cruise line has a video evidence of this occurrence.  The greedy family, mother even a prosector, is suing the cruise line. The court of public opinion overwhelmingly blames the grandfather, a 50 year old adult man, not the cruise line.  A court ruling in the favor of the plaintiff would be crazy. The line shouldn’t be held responsible.

 

Royal Caribbean wasn't held responsible. Thrown out last July.

Royal Caribbean was cleared of wrongdoing in the 2019 death of Chloe Wiegand, an 18-month old toddler who was with her grandfather when she fell out of a cruise ship window, a federal judge ruled Tuesday.

U.S. District Judge Donald Graham in Florida threw out a lawsuit filed by the parents of Wiegand, arguing that her grandfather Salvatore “Sam” Anello was responsible for the toddler's death, not the cruise line.

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Howdy folks, I was reading through this discussion and I felt compelled to join just to share what I know about Atlantis and this event.  I have been on 10 Atlantis cruises through the years, my first being in 2001.    I haven't sailed with Atlantis in almost a decade, as the parties became increasingly more wild, and frankly I got tired of all the medical emergencies.   I was on Allure of The Seas when she was just months old, and the crowd on board basically trashed the ship.    I will never forget the amount of times we heard "Alpha Alpha Alpha" on board, and before our first stop, hearing the Captain come on the PA system to tell us of the numerous drug overdoses on board.    He was furious, and said anyone caught with drugs would be disembarked at the next port.    Atlantis staff asked passengers not to dance on planters because they had destroyed everything in the Solarium.    What a horrible trip.    Then one day after getting back from St. Thomas, we were boarded by ATF with German Sheppard's and there was a huge drug bust.    22 people were arrested.    I did one more Atlantis cruise after that and called it quits... I couldn't believe what I was seeing.   

In regards to having parties outdoors, etc., what many people seem to forget is that this is a gay cruise, and that means personal boundaries barely exist or are ignored completely by others.  I have done podcasts and blog posts about this kind of interpersonal activity with gay men... as a member of the community, it's something that happens such regularity, it's very normal.   With that being said, a gay cruise is much much more than people dancing on a dance floor... many are under the influence of drugs and alcohol, and so forget about social distancing... it's a very "intimate" experience for almost everyone on board.   I'll leave it at that.    So there's basically no such thing as social distancing... none.    

The photos you're seeing of the dance floor are in fact real, and current, and they are tame compared to what's being shared on Twitter.   Yes, Atlantis basically takes over guest relations, and kind of runs the ship.    Say goodbye to the customer service standards you would associate with RCCL, this people have attitudes.   I was literally woken up and asked to move from my lounge chair during a photo shoot for Atlantis, where a very pretentious photographer pleaded with his friend to find him some hot guys for a brochure photo.    When I became visibly upset because "I was on vacation and they were being paid.."  I was told "If it makes you feel better, this is for the Atlantis brochure..."   No, that actually made it worse.   

Atlantis cruises sell the same amount of alcohol as a "standard cruise" usually by Tuesday, and once we even ran out of bottled water.    The event is a HUGE money maker for RCCL, and I've been told that employees have to bid to be on the ship because the tip money is outrageous.    I have seen RCCL crew members cry the last night of the cruise, because apparently we treat them with respect, say "please" and "thank you" and know how to enjoy life.    There are some aspects of these cruises that are truly amazing, however they have slowly been overshadowed by everything bad, and that just became too much for me to handle.

As far as COVID goes, we all know how transmissible it is, even if you are vaccinated and boosted.  We know that these folks are going to take whatever they caught back home with them, and we also know that passengers weren't tested before re-entering the US.     There was a similar cruise the week before with a charter company called "Vacaya" on Celebrity Millennium, and 19 passengers were tested positive with COVID after some developed symptoms and contact tracing was conducted.   My friend was on that ship, and he said you can't compare the party atmosphere on Atlantis... as he is also a former customer of theirs... in fact it's where I met him.   So it's a complete mystery as to how many contracted this disease that I almost died from before vaccines were available.   I do want to point out that Atlantis also discourages people from seeking any kind of drug related medical help from RCCL, and brings their own team on board, complete with a cabin number to call in the event you see an overdose.    This is because RCCL has a zero tolerance policy for drug use on board and people don't want to be sent home.    This of course creates a kind of "don't tell RCCL anything" mentality when it comes to feeling sick, etc. 

So yeah, everything you're seeing on social media is true, and is actually worse.    Atlantis is known in the community for being over the top, and markets to the "circuit crowd" (rave party scene).    There is also great tension within our community about this cruise, and what it means for a community that was almost wiped out by HIV only a few decades ago.    There are many arguments on Twitter, many people like me that feel it's incredibly irresponsible for our community to be ignoring such an obvious health issue.    I hope this sheds some light when thinking of this cruise in terms of a standard cruise, which it is far from.   

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11 hours ago, MikeMiaFL said:

 

So yeah, everything you're seeing on social media is true, and is actually worse.    Atlantis is known in the community for being over the top, and markets to the "circuit crowd" (rave party scene).    There is also great tension within our community about this cruise, and what it means for a community that was almost wiped out by HIV only a few decades ago.    There are many arguments on Twitter, many people like me that feel it's incredibly irresponsible for our community to be ignoring such an obvious health issue.    I hope this sheds some light when thinking of this cruise in terms of a standard cruise, which it is far from.   

Really interesting perspective, Mike. Thanks for that. 

It's interesting that RCI is willing to let its ship potentially suffer a fair level of destruction simply because the charter makes money. It's also comforting, though, to know that the patrons are known for being polite and generous to staff, and that their disrespect for the ship itself doesn't spread to the people working on the ship.

It also seems, from what you're saying, that Atlantis could absolutely be held liable for a death or serious harm caused by drugs on one of these cruises, and that part of the allure (no pun intended) of this cruise is the drug culture, given the rave-like environment. 

I'm not a part of the community, but I have several family members who are. Particularly, I have a male, gay cousin who doesn't fit into the party-hard, ultra-sexualized stereotype of a gay man. And for the sake of many gay men I know who are like him, I think it's unfortunate this is what the public sees as representation of a "gay cruise", when in fact it's really a "gay party cruise" with emphasis on the party. We shouldn't have the expectation that if you get 5,000 gay men on a boat that this is the inevitable result. These patrons were not simply looking to go on a cruise with other gay men. They are looking for a huge, over-the-top party. 

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3 hours ago, Neesa said:

@Matt

@SpeedNoodles

I can't help thinking maybe this thread has run it's course. We are a RCCL fan site ultimately and in my humble opinion I'm not sure anything constructive can be accomplished by keeping this going. Just my 2 cents! 

No offense, but you aren't a moderator. If you don't like this thread then don't read it. 

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3 hours ago, Neesa said:

I can't help thinking maybe this thread has run it's course. We are a RCCL fan site ultimately and in my humble opinion I'm not sure anything constructive can be accomplished by keeping this going. Just my 2 cents! 

I've been keeping an eye on this thread. It has stayed civil and relevant to Royal Caribbean and cruising up to this point. 

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4 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Were there any CDC spies on board? The CDC advantageously used a niche event like Bear Week in Massachusetts to champion masking for the vaccinated. I'd hate to see them use another niche event to further take down cruise lines.

Hasn't their grip on the cruising industry ended on January 15th?

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15 minutes ago, AshleyDillo said:

I've been keeping an eye on this thread. It has stayed civil and relevant to Royal Caribbean and cruising up to this point. 

I agree with not closing popular threads even if the topic does not appeal to some people as long as they remain civil.  If the topic is no longer interesting, it will just get pushed back and buried under the more popular threads.  If they become irrelevant to Royal Caribbean, they can be moved to "People Connect"

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16 hours ago, MikeMiaFL said:

Say goodbye to the customer service standards you would associate with RCCL, this people have attitudes.   I was literally woken up and asked to move from my lounge chair during a photo shoot for Atlantis, where a very pretentious photographer pleaded with his friend to find him some hot guys for a brochure photo.    When I became visibly upset because "I was on vacation and they were being paid.."  I was told "If it makes you feel better, this is for the Atlantis brochure..."   No, that actually made it worse.   

@MikeMiaFL Nice write up! Thank you for your perspective, from a fellow Atlantis Alumni.  I see you.   And I notice your story about the photo ops from a similar one on a Yelp review of Atlantis Events, which has a. whole 2 stars.

Vacaya is only a couple years old and is no competitor to Atlantis on a major scale right now.  I think they cater to two different market segments of the LGBT community.  Atlantis is for gay men mostly and Vacaya is marketed to anyone from the gay LGBT community and promises a lesser circuit atmosphere.  I’m sticking with Atlantis for now.  I usually only do West Coast Atlantis, the Oasis and Symphony and Allure are ships that are way too wild and way too big.  I like the guest population around 2,000 not 5,500, myself.

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4 hours ago, jeffmw said:

It also seems, from what you're saying, that Atlantis could absolutely be held liable for a death or serious harm caused by drugs on one of these cruises, and that part of the allure (no pun intended) of this cruise is the drug culture, given the rave-like environment. 

@jeffmw I don’t mean to keep going on and on, so I’m sorry in advance for that, so I’ll be shorter than usual.  But its been 30 years, my friend.  If Atlantis could be held responsible, lawyers would have been able to make it happen by now but they haven’t been able to in 30 years.  

With so many rampant issues, you would figure someone, if not a class, would attempt to sue them a few times per year?   There was even a story a few years back where a couple were having sex on stateroom balcony when docking in a foreign place and they got arrested.  Was Atlantis held responsible? Nope.  As a courtesy, Atlantis did pay the couple’s tickets home, I believe. If you watch interviews of the couple, they hold a grudge to Atlantis, still.

Here’s a recent scathing article that was written by a maritime lawyer, Jim Walker.  He lists all the horrors people are reading about re this Oasis charter.  https://www.cruiselawnews.com/2022/01/articles/disease/super-spreader-of-the-seas-atlantis-events-makes-a-mockery-of-covid-19-protocols/

If Jim Walker, someone with a law firm who exclusively is maritime law practice hasn’t figured out how stick it to Atlantis, who else can?  In this article he very explicitly explains some of what happens.  Knowing all of that, and in the beginning of the article he states, guests have e-mailed him…he has made no case.

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13 minutes ago, SeanOfTheSeas said:

Here’s a recent scathing article that was written by a maritime lawyer, Jim Walker.  He lists all the horrors people are reading about re this Oasis charter.  https://www.cruiselawnews.com/2022/01/articles/disease/super-spreader-of-the-seas-atlantis-events-makes-a-mockery-of-covid-19-protocols/

I'm not going to go back and forth. You've made your point.

I just want to comment that I can't believe this law firm specializes in "Cruise Law". There really is a business for everything. Blog titled, "Everything Cruise Lines Don't Want You to Know". Does he want people to stop going on cruises? Wouldn't that be bad for business!? Hilarious. I can't wait to read through this. 

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21 hours ago, RWDW1204 said:

Royal Caribbean wasn't held responsible. Thrown out last July.

The Weigands filed an appeal on July 27th 2021, according to WebSleuths. Was this also denied?

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/in-grandfather-charged-in-cruise-ship-death-of-toddler-chloe-wiegand-9-no-jail.512008/page-25

From the terminated case docket, the Notice of Appeal was filed July 27, and new case number assigned:

Date Filed # Docket Text 

07/27/2021
 Transmission of Notice of Appeal, Order under appeal and Docket Sheet to US Court of Appeals re 237Notice of Appeal, Notice has been electronically mailed. (apz) (Entered: 07/27/2021)

07/28/2021 
#238 Acknowledgment of Receipt of NOA from USCA re 237Notice of Appeal, filed by Alan Wiegand, Kimberly Schultz-Wiegand. Date received by USCA: 7/27/21. USCA Case Number: 21-12506-G. (hh) (Entered: 07/28/2021)

 

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