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Royal Caribbean decides not to ask whether you have been vaccinated!


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1 hour ago, RBRSKI said:

 I think many of those un vaccinated passengers would be compliant with the rules imposed upon them.  

That is why they had mask riots and threats on the governors life in the great state of Michigan?

guess we just have to disagree on this point.  I will say though

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
  Voltaire (1694-1778) French writer and historian.

have a pleasant rest of your evening and good health to you

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Well, vaccinated people are pretty much 'virus proof' and get to live a normal life. Those willing to voluntarily show they have been vaccinated may get access to areas closed to those who are not. Those that are not vaccinated take their chances and potentially will have to face the consequences of their decision, what ever that might be. There is your freedom. You get to choose.

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So Royal have dropped the vaccine mandate for US sailings, do we know if that includes Harmony of the Seas out of Barcelona this summer? They haven't announced anything specific for Harmony so I presume it will be the same as the US and have no vaccine mandate?

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55 minutes ago, Ditchdoc said:

Well, vaccinated people are pretty much 'virus proof' and get to live a normal life. Those willing to voluntarily show they have been vaccinated may get access to areas closed to those who are not. Those that are not vaccinated take their chances and potentially will have to face the consequences of their decision, what ever that might be. There is your freedom. You get to choose.

Think about that statement for a minute..Those that aren't vaccinated still get to live a normal life irregardless, it's just that they may possible get the virus or not. Who knows what their body immune situation is..they may have had the virus previously and it didn't affect them based on various factors and built up an immunity to it.

For those that have received the vaccine, what does it matter if you're in a vicinity of unvaccinated people, Your vaccinated right? Then don't worry what others do, it's their choice how they live, NOT Yours or Mine! 

Why would there be a restricted area, the vaccine is supposedly the antidote that removes that factor from the equation, unless you don't trust the vaccine.

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47 minutes ago, mworkman said:

Why would there be a restricted area, the vaccine is supposedly the antidote that removes that factor from the equation, unless you don't trust the vaccine.

Having passenger vaccinated reduces risk for the cruise line.  Having "Restrictions" in place for un-vaccinated acts as an incentive for them to be vaccinated.

Much like masks were never to protect myself as much as it was to protect others

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I highly doubt Royal made a Willy Nilly decision. They’ve done their research. (Surveys) They know their protocols work (Singapore). 
 

They have the ability and have said they will disembark a positive case along with their travel party and pay for them to get home etc. 

 

If enough cases (threshold) are onboard, the cruise will end. This is what people are most worried about. However, it appears Royal has done their research, has followed the science their panel of experts has presented and feels this is low risk. 
 

Remember, ships will be reduced capacity at least until November 1. 
 

Royal has said their survey results have 90% vaccinated or planning to be vaccinated. 
 

After the last 15 months, they know the risks of this decision and obviously feel it is low. 
 

I do see however fairly strict protocols for those who are not vaccinated and it will be these protocols that will weed out many of those people. Many do not want to cruise with masks, period. They will wait a bit longer until masks are waived for everyone. 
 

I do not think this is as big a deal as some are making it out to be. 

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13 hours ago, RBRSKI said:

So many unhinged people!  Why is "Choice" and "Opinion" such a bad or incomprehensible words ?

I suspect Disney will also follow RCCL!

Because choosing not to vaccinate and to keep the ability to infect others will mean pre-vaccination rules for everyone at best, infecting other passengers at worst.

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I am not a mathematician but I would speculate that:

An un-vaccinated person is at much higher risk.

Two un-vaccinated people together increases the risk, perhaps exponentially, e.g. the risk goes from 50% to maybe 80 or 90%   .... etc.

Vaccinated people are at a much lower risk but lower is not 100%.

Two vaccinated people together decreases the risk even further to the point its almost 100%. 

A cruise ship, as has been said by many, is a floating petri dish. You HAVE to consider not just yourself, but other passengers and perhaps more importantly, the crew.

Do you want groups of un-vaccinated people, at a much higher risk of being infected, touring the bridge and talking to the Captain, the First Mate, the Navigator, the Chief Engineer etc?  These are the people responsible for your safety, for the safety of the ship. True they should all be vaccinated at this point and are reasonably safe. If the opinion is, we are safe because the crew is vaccinated, then the argument becomes 'I don't have to be vaccinated and am safe because of those that are vaccinated therefor  I can afford to be be negligent and piggy back off those that are being responsible.'

 

 

 

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With everyone being treated as unvaccinated, this means that everyone will have to give a negative test done at least 3 days before cruising. 

I have side to side cruises booked. Valiant Lady, which will be fully vaccinated, then Odyssey of the Seas. Since I can't get a PCR test for Odyssey, does that mean I have to cancel?

Royal caved to Florida, plain and simple.

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12 minutes ago, Ditchdoc said:

You HAVE to consider not just yourself, but other passengers and perhaps more importantly, the crew.

The best way to consider others, on or off the ship, is to vaccinate. Remember, if an outbreak occurs on the ship, everyone's cruise will be ruined, not just the unvaccinated.

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13 hours ago, RBRSKI said:

Here is an idea! And a real way to possibly have a test cruise!

Have two Royal Ships!

One with Vaccinated People

One with unvaccinated People

After the voyage see if any people pop positive because we all know vaccinated people can still test positive and carry Covid!

Not on a 100% vaccinated ship they won’t, at least not to an extent that matters. Basic concepts of virology, immunology, and statistics bear this out 

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14 hours ago, CruiseGus said:

I can see the voluntarily show proof of vaccination or come be tested daily and Oh btw un-vacinated have to eat in this dining room at this time, no other option. you can only attend this show where masks will be required.  There will be a special bar where the computer know you can get a drink that also requires masks, al other bars you are locked out of.  By Royals own admission based on those surveys i have filled out a couple of times now,  80% percent of their customer want vaccinated cruises and even more 90% say they are already vaccinated.

When will our country QUIT trying to make itself accomidate the minority and proceed with what the majority want.

Unfortunately, the way the CSO is worded, at this time your scenario is impossible. RCL does not have the option to offer this. As far as the CDC is concerned either the ship is 100% vaccinated or 100% unvaccinated. 

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43 minutes ago, Jill said:

I do not think this is as big a deal as some are making it out to be. 

Agree with @Jill. I have no position I wish to articulate here on whether or not people who want to cruise should get vaccinated. I do believe the concept of choice in most matters should prevail. 

The RCL news that the company will not require vaccination to board and sail on one of their sailings (not from Seattle .... yet) is probably a smart choice ..... and I have no doubt it is a calculated risk as I posted elsewhere.  RCL has run the numbers. Anecdotally, we know the risk of transmission aboard a sailing with a hybrid passenger manifest is low, not zero but low enough. We also know that a single infection aboard any sailing could result in outcomes we fear. OTH, RCL seems to be betting on damage control that will prevent  bad, yet predictable outcomes, i.e., rigid protocols for containment and passenger handling should a single infection be discovered.

I can argue that the path RCL and most cruise lines have followed - compliance with the provisions of the CSO - should isolate the lines from those potentially bad outcomes. That's the bet it would seem. I'd also argue that RCL, and others, want to sail out of FL because that's where the money is and have chosen a conciliatory instead of confrontational path with Governor Desantis. Could RCL challenge the Desantis prohibitions in court and prevail? I'm almost certain they could ...... but why muddy the waters and tie up operations for months doing that?  This is decision to not defend the high ground. 

Looking around the US at state's plans to incentivize vaccination, e.g., tickets for a concert featuring a popular music group were $89 for those vaccinated and $999 for those unvaccinated. There is not doubt that RCL has figured that onerous protocols (yet to be published!!!)  for the unvaccinated compared to complete freedom for the vaccinated will produce somewhere around a 90% vaccinated passenger manifest.

Smart move. I wonder what Celebrity will do with it's July and August sailings aboard Edge from PEV? I'm booked on an August sailing.

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8 minutes ago, JeffB said:

Agree with @Jill. I have no position I wish to articulate here on whether or not people who want to cruise should get vaccinated. I do believe the concept of choice in most matters should prevail. 

The RCL news that the company will not require vaccination to board and sail on one of their sailings is probably a smart choice ..... and I have no doubt it is a calculated risk as I posted elsewhere.  RCL has run the numbers. Anecdotally, we know the risk of transmission aboard a sailing with a hybrid passenger manifest is low, not zero but low enough. We also know that a single infection aboard any sailing could result in outcomes we fear. OTH, RCL seems to be betting on damage control that will prevent  bad, yet predictable outcomes, i.e., rigid protocols for containment and passenger handling should a single infection be discovered.

I can argue that the path RCL and most cruise lines have followed - compliance with the provisions of the CSO - should isolate the lines from those potentially bad outcomes. That's the bet it would seem. I'd also argue that RCL, and others, want to sail out of FL because that's where the money is and have chosen a conciliatory instead of confrontational path with Governor Desantis. Could RCL challenge the Desantis prohibitions in court and prevail? I'm almost certain they could ...... but why muddy the waters and tie up operations for months doing that?  This is decision to not defend the high ground. 

Looking around the US at state's plans to incentivize vaccination, e.g., tickets for a concert featuring a popular music group were $89 for those vaccinated and $999 for those unvaccinated. There is not doubt that RCL has figured that onerous protocols (yet to be published!!!)  for the unvaccinated compared to complete freedom for the vaccinated will produce somewhere around a 90% vaccinated passenger manifest.

Smart move. I wonder what Celebrity will do with it's July and August sailings aboard Edge from PEV? I'm booked on an August sailing.

Agree.  We are probably discussing the difference between 95% and 85%.  Which probably doesn’t change the numbers that much given it doesn’t sound like you pick this up by passing someone in a hallway.  I understand the concern about the cruise shutting down, but look what happened on the Odyssey trip over.  They had a few positives in their crew and they dropped them off and kept going.

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2 hours ago, mworkman said:

For those that have received the vaccine, what does it matter if you're in a vicinity of unvaccinated people, Your vaccinated right? Then don't worry what others do, it's their choice how they live, NOT Yours or Mine! 

 

Love It!

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12 hours ago, CruiseGus said:

and not get deathly sick.  just thinking that is the main point here

Yes, you are absolutely correct that you can get "deathly sick" from Covid19 on a ship, but let's not forget the other things that could put passengers with compromises (like the ones the CDC has listed if exposed to Covid19) at risk.?

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Here is something that might blow some people's minds. 

Currently, not everyone the works in the health care industry is vaccinated because they have a choice. Rules are changing everyday in which what PPE is being required working in this field. 

Soon, the mask mandate is going to be lifted for those individuals in this field to wear masks.  

Just our of curiosity, for those on this blog who work in the health care industry, did your employer make you get the vaccine?  I personally, haven't heard of many people forced or mandated to get one.  I believe in most cases it was the CHOICE of the individual. 

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Going to share a theory I had yesterday on the Carnival news from yesterday.  I wonder if Carnival put that out there for leverage.  Up until yesterday they seemed on the track that Royal announced.  I wonder if Royal was getting concessions in the back and forth on the mandate and Carnival decided they needed some leverage in their discussions.

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Lot of strong opinions here for vaccinations,  being unvaccinated, allowing personal choices or allowing the goverment/companies to mandate their policy on you. 

I support choices as long as your choice which is different than mine doesn't infringe on my choices. 

Couple of thoughts.  Do you all read what you post? Just because you disagree, doesn't make the other person a jerk bully or ignoramus. Quite the opposite, you become those things.

When did this country become so risk adverse? This virus depending on age group generally averages out to a fatality rate of less than 1%, you surely take greater risks elsewhere in your life just about every other day

At this point if you are vaccinated you took a calculated risk in terms of unknown long term side effects

At this point if you are unvaccinated you are taking a calculated risk in terms of getting the virus. 

If your vaccine works, why do I need one?

If your vaccine doesn't work, why do I need one?

At the end of the day, our love of cruising brings us here. Enjoy life, live and let live, be kind and agree to disagree sometimes. 

I will get off my soapbox now.

Happy cruising at some point, tip big for the poor souls who have been out of work for so long and help to make our memorable vacations. 

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16 minutes ago, RBRSKI said:

Here is something that might blow some people's minds. 

Currently, not everyone the works in the health care industry is vaccinated because they have a choice. Rules are changing everyday in which what PPE is being required working in this field. 

Soon, the mask mandate is going to be lifted for those individuals in this field to wear masks.  

Just our of curiosity, for those on this blog who work in the health care industry, did your employer make you get the vaccine?  I personally, haven't heard of many people forced or mandated to get one.  I believe in most cases it was the CHOICE of the individual. 

My hospital did not mandate vaccines when we started getting them in December. We have, however, been served notice recently that there will be a 100% vaccine requirement by January 1, 2022.  Those not vaccinated will no longer have a job, or admission privileges (as the case may be) 

The mask mandate in healthcare facilities (at least in TX) is controlled by the Texas Medical Board. I no longer have to require masks to be worn in my office, however the hospital is a 100% mask zone, and will be until at least mid year 2022. 

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