Royal Caribbean to remove onboard credit offer from non-refundable fares ???

[princevaliantus]

Well, all I can say like so many are starting to do, the time has come to move on!!

Don't wanna be a fool for you
Just another player in your game for two
You may hate me, but it ain't no lie,
Baby, bye, bye, bye...

[ellcee]

I don't book a cruise because of OBC. I book because of location and time off. It's a perk that I'd like but my next cruise there is none. If the cruise fares are lower because of this (I do kinda doubt this...buttt) than that's my incentive.

[Keeves]

Suppose there is a cruise that has a $1300 fare that comes with $100 on-board credit (I'm just making up these numbers)

Then the prices go up. Do I care whether it goes to $1450 with $100 OBC, or if it goes to $1350 but zero OBC? No, I do not care; either way, I have to pay $150 more than otherwise. In fact, I actually prefer the zero OBC, because that will make it a little easier to meet the payment deadlines. (And people who plan to spend zero on board will certainly prefer that setup.)

Or maybe I just don't understand what the attraction of on-board credit is to begin with...

 

[Oliver]

My first reaction was negative as well. But the press release did say something to the effect that fares would be lower instead. Hopefully that’s turns out to be true and not just PR talk.

If it ends up being true that fares will be lower, I really don’t care. If it turns out to be not true, then yes it would be very disappointing and a big negative as they are eliminating a perk to save money.

i also was thinking that it’s possible travel agents would give OBC still to make people happy as a perk.

 

[Matt]

The change makes things easier to quickly compare fare differences between refundable and non-refundable.

[princevaliantus]

18 minutes ago, Oliver Max said:

My first reaction was negative as well. But the press release did say something to the effect that fares would be lower instead. Hopefully that’s turns out to be true and not just PR talk.

If it ends up being true that fares will be lower, I really don’t care. If it turns out to be not true, then yes it would be very disappointing and a big negative as they are eliminating a perk to save money.

i also was thinking that it’s possible travel agents would give OBC still to make people happy as a perk.

 

It's PR Talk. Whether anyone sees it or refuses to see it, RCCL has reduced many benefits/perks/etc. lately but their pricing scheme has always gone up. If RCCL doesn't show their appreciation to their respective loyal D+ and others, what's the purpose and/or difference in sailing between RCCL and Celebrity, for example??   The whole idea of this latest stunt is IF RCCL keeps true to what has been stated, we shall all see where the pricing scheme will be. Per a personal insight, I was informed that there were not going to be any drastic pricing changes in the favor of the cruisers with this new stunt, and that RCCL will be implementing new fees which won't make us happy. I'm waiting to see what exactly these new fees are and when they are going to be released.

[monctonguy]

IF IF IF IF IF.....they LOWER prices like they claim as a result of removing OBC...then I am all for it. It makes it easier to compare and track etc.

 

However, me thinks this is not the case with Royal. Based on everything they have done when it comes to costs and perks and incentives and increasing costs for everything in the past couple years..I am very very very very skeptical.

 

My prediction is that perhaps for the first cpl mths or so they MAY have some lower prices, but before you know it they will have crept back up and no OBC incentive.

 

I hope I am wrong......wrong I am not usually... :(

[princevaliantus]

4 minutes ago, monctonguy said:

IF IF IF IF IF.....they LOWER prices like they claim as a result of removing OBC...then I am all for it. It makes it easier to compare and track etc.

 

However, me thinks this is not the case with Royal. Based on everything they have done when it comes to costs and perks and incentives and increasing costs for everything in the past couple years..Ii am very very very very skeptical.

 

My prediction is that perhaps for the firstcCpl mths or so they MAY have some lower prices, but before you know it they will have crept back up and no OBC incentive.

 

I hope I am wrong......wrong I am not usually... :(

Well put and I concur!!

[VACruiser]

Even if they did reduce the prices for a time I would imagine that it would not be long before you would see increases and all this would be just be a lot of talk. 

[princevaliantus]

11 minutes ago, Tim B. said:

Even if they did reduce the prices for a time I would imagine that it would not be long before you would see increases and all this would be just be a lot of talk. 

Exactly!! I concur!!

[Rose City Cruiser]

Does this mean the promos will be basically "instant" savings?  No more Double Down business. 

[Lindsay]

2 hours ago, Keeves said:

(And people who plan to spend zero on board will certainly prefer that setup.)

 

 

Who are these people?  These are probably the same people that can keep wine in their house.  When I go to someone's house and they have a plethora of wine, I am like - how do you do that?  We can't keep wine in our house for a collection!!!!  People come over and it gets poured!

But I digress...so I view the people who spend ZERO on board with the same awe.  I can't imagine going on a cruise and NOT having a huge bill at the end!  Much respect to you zero spenders but how do you do that???

[Matt]

16 minutes ago, jurrjurr said:

Does this mean the promos will be basically "instant" savings?  No more Double Down business. 

Not sure what you're asking. This change means if you book a non-refundable fare, there is no more OBC directly related that cruise fare.

[princevaliantus]

10 minutes ago, Matt said:

Not sure what you're asking. This change means if you book a non-refundable fare, there is no more OBC directly related that cruise fare.

Question: How does this affect the Next Cruise onboard booking?? If they are not offering OBC onboard, why book onboard??? There goes the incentive to even book onboard. This needs some clarification.  Any input @Matt??

[Keeves]

26 minutes ago, Lindsay said:

I can't imagine going on a cruise and NOT having a huge bill at the end!  Much respect to you zero spenders but how do you do that???

Depending on one's point of view, they are either cheap tightwads or thrifty budgeters. Or maybe they are just good vacation planners.

I would point out that this conversation is NOT about how much one spends beyond the basic cabin price. It's about how much one spends on board, after all the stuff that was purchased before the cruise in the Planner. One can buy all sorts of excursions,  restaurant meals, drink packages, etc, beforehand, and then what else? I'd think that people who are careful with their impulse spending the rest of the year, will do the same thing on vacation, or close to it.

[Lindsay]

3 minutes ago, Keeves said:

I'd think that people who are careful with their impulse spending the rest of the year, will do the same thing on vacation, or close to it.

And I do not fall in this category.  LOL!!!!!

[Lovetocruise2002]

2 hours ago, princevaliantus said:

Question: How does this affect the Next Cruise onboard booking?? If they are not offering OBC onboard, why book onboard??? There goes the incentive to even book onboard. This needs some clarification.  Any input @Matt??

The next cruise OBC is still in play.  It's just the extra $100 OBC that you get from booking a NRD more than 6 months out that they are doing away with.

[Matt]

Just now, Lovetocruise2002 said:

The next cruise OBC is still in play.  It's just the extra $100 OBC that you get from booking a NRD more than 6 months out that they are doing away with.

Exactly.  No change to the NextCruise bonus OBC.

[princevaliantus]

5 minutes ago, Lovetocruise2002 said:

The next cruise OBC is still in play.  It's just the extra $100 OBC that you get from booking a NRD more than 6 months out that they are doing away with.

I'll be on MotS and will seek clarification, just to make sure. Thank you. 

[Pooch]

3 hours ago, Lindsay said:

Who are these people?  These are probably the same people that can keep wine in their house.  When I go to someone's house and they have a plethora of wine, I am like - how do you do that?  We can't keep wine in our house for a collection!!!!  People come over and it gets poured!

But I digress...so I view the people who spend ZERO on board with the same awe.  I can't imagine going on a cruise and NOT having a huge bill at the end!  Much respect to you zero spenders but how do you do that???

Had 2 bottles of wine in my fridge for over a year!!!  And I am most definitely in the non-impulse spending group!  We’ve prepaid gratuities and deluxe drink package.  Hubby will bring couple hundred to donate to the casino.  I may do a little shopping on board IF they have anything good ON SALE.  Cant imagine a bill of more than 1 or 2 hundred at the end.  I’ll let you know when we get back how I did!!

[Lovetocruise2002]

Came across this earlier....this was the wording sent to TAs.

“We would like to inform you of an upcoming change to our Non-Refundable Deposit Program, resulting from a review of booking analytics over the past year. Based on this research, the onboard credit earned when booking six months or more prior to sailing will no longer apply. This update will take effect on all new bookings made on or after November 1st, 2018.

We are confident that this change will not impact your business. The Non-Refundable Deposit Program continues to offer the best pricing available — and will always be priced lower than the standard fare during brand promotions.”

[princevaliantus]

For those who want to read the full announcement from Royal, you can download the attachment. It is all there in vague black & white, still leaving some questions unanswered.

Nonrefundable_FAQ_News.pdf

[JLMoran]

38 minutes ago, princevaliantus said:

For those who want to read the full announcement from Royal, you can download the attachment. It is all there in vague black & white, still leaving some questions unanswered.

Nonrefundable_FAQ_News.pdf

I think this line is the key one:

Quote

Those who book non-refundable deposit fares on-or-after November 1st, 2018 will no longer qualify to earn an onboard credit of up to $100 per stateroom. The onboard credit is combinable with the existing promotional offer available at time of booking, offering your clients the ability to stack on additional savings for the best deal out there.

Note the part about it being combinable with existing promotional offers. So as @Lovetocruise2002 said, all they are really getting rid of is the extra OBC you were previously awarded on top of the current promotion. I think the language for this aspect is pretty clear: You will still get whatever OBC is offered with the current promotion, regardless of whether you book refundable or non-refundable.

Where non-refundable has been changed to (we hope) better differentiate it from the refundable bookings is in exchanging some extra OBC for extra reduction in the booking price. When you figure most people were booking either inside / OV cabins ($25 extra OBC) or balconies ($50 extra), the OBC wasn't going to be a big factor (as the claimed analytics almost certainly showed). $25 in OBC gets you two free drinks, or maybe a discounted cupcake decorating class. Even booking a suite probably didn't make the $100 in extra OBC all that worth it, considering how much more the suite costs up front and the on-board extras all true suites get.

So what did people choose to compare on? Base cost.

I remember at least one person here showing how selecting the refundable rate was moved to the end of the online booking process, where it was now a checkbox that showed the extra cost. And the other thing I remember was that in the example screen shot the extra cost was pretty minimal -- I want to say $35 in that particular case (let's say it was an inside cabin). Well if I'm paying only $35 more for refundable, and "losing" $25 in OBC for an inside room that I may not find terribly valuable, why not have the refundable rate and know I can cancel at any time to get back all of my paid-in money?

That's not what Royal wants. Royal wants more non-refundable bookings that let them say to shareholders, "We have ships already booked at 75% capacity 12 months out, and that translates into X% improved [bookings / assured revenue / forecast onboard spend / etc]." So they'll lower the base rate by a more visible amount, maybe where clicking that checkbox raises the price by $100 instead of $35. That's a bigger psychological barrier for someone to cross, even if they're looking at a sailing 18 months out, especially if they're someone who doesn't spread out the payments and just looks at making one lump payout on final payment date. We won't know until this goes into effect in November, but if they implement it that way and make that price gap psychologically big enough... well, either NRDs will bump up the way they want, or total bookings will go down as passengers balk over being "penalized" for wanting a refundable booking.

Royal wants NRDs, and I don't doubt they are on a road map to make all bookings NRD like a lot of other cruise lines. They have to make people willing to swallow that pill, and giving a bigger price gap between NRD and refundable (where the NRD is at least initially better than it was before) is a pretty smart way to do it.

[princevaliantus]

I will wait until I'm on MotS with the Next Cruise Manager and ask for clarification as the flyer is not as clear cut as some think it is. Next Cruise usually have flyers outlining the program which should have the changes. I'll try to get a copy and scan it.

[jticarruthers]

We shall see ... personally I always base my decision on net cost of cruise (Fare, less OBC, less any TA OBC) so if they are just lowering the fare instead of offering OBC, then no impact on my analysis ... if they just axe the OBC then the net fare went up and it just increases the likelihood of picking a different cruise/cruise line.

My gut tells me they do the second version and its just a thinly disguised price increase but hey maybe this will be a pleasant surprise for a change ...

[HeWhoWaits]

15 hours ago, Lindsay said:

Who are these people?  These are probably the same people that can keep wine in their house.  When I go to someone's house and they have a plethora of wine, I am like - how do you do that?  We can't keep wine in our house for a collection!!!!  People come over and it gets poured!

Not necessarily the same people. We always have additional spending onboard, but we are able to keep wine in the house.

We visit wineries frequently and have rarely done a tasting without purchasing multiple bottles. Then, when we have guests and open a bottle or three, we make sure to replenish the stock in order to keep a proper variety on hand.

[princevaliantus]

7 minutes ago, jticarruthers said:

We shall see ... personally I always base my decision on net cost of cruise (Fare, less OBC, less any TA OBC) so if they are just lowering the fare instead of offering OBC, then no impact on my analysis ... if they just axe the OBC then the net fare went up and it just increases the likelihood of picking a different cruise/cruise line.

My gut tells me they do the second version and its just a thinly disguised price increase but hey maybe this will be a pleasant surprise for a change ...

Hope always springs eternal. Fingers crossed!!

[monctonguy]

We will never really know..I mean, the only way to even get an idea would be to price a bunch of cruises now for the future and then after the date they change the OBC offer. I bet you they wont drop at all..or if they do, its because they already raised them by then.

 

Now after reading a lot of this legal jargon stuff....it sounds more to me like they are just removing the $100OBC and not saying they are lowering the price to offset it. Its just now it will be cheaper than there "standardfare" which no cruise company ever realty charges(99% of the time at least)

 

Just another perk Royal is removing.....imho

[princevaliantus]

Just now, monctonguy said:

We will never really know..I mean, the only way to even get an idea would be to price a bunch of cruises now for the future and then after the date they change the OBC offer. I bet you they wont drop at all..or if they do, its because they already raised them by then.

 

Now after reading a lot of this legal jargon stuff....it sounds more to me like they are just removing the $100OBC and not saying they are lowering the price to offset it. Its just now it will be cheaper than there "standardfare" which no cruise company ever realty charges(99% of the time at least)

 

Just another perk Royal is removing.....imho

That's what I think as well.  Ambiguity benefits the party that did not draft it, in this case, the cruisers, but RCCL doesn't see it that way.

What I do is that I compare all my previous cruise pricing of cruises that I've taken over the past nearly 40 years and take it from there. This way, I see what was, what is and what it shall be, given in current times (i.e.- economy, supply & demand, etc.).

[Orange Crush]

Marketing is what it is, but I don't care at all about their sales, included this or that promotions, onboard credits, BOGOs or the bizarre math they use to figure their "percent off" tags on the cruise planner.

I always figure out my total cruise cost, estimate what my add-on packages will cost, and add in the gratuities, taxes, fees, and whatever else they tack on or I expect to spend and subtract perks & OBC before I book and make my decision based on that.  You can't make an apples-to-apples comparison any other way.  Whether they take out the OBC and remove it from the fare price or just take it away and leave the fare the same doesn't really matter to me in the end.  I'm looking at the bottom line price and compare it to other cruises I've taken or other lines to decide if I'm getting a good deal or not.

This might be a sneaky way to raise prices without changing the sticker price, it doesn't really bother me, because I never believed the sticker price in the first place.

[twangster]

For me nothing changes.  I'll do what I've always done.  Look at the price of a particular cruise and compare it to other options.  

Price is a factor for me but so is ship and itinerary.  

Market demand will drive prices, not OBC.  At the end of the day if RC is pricing themselves above the competition, demand will drop and soon after so will prices.  

OBC is great but now I can see everything at face value.  

I'd be more upset if the opposite were true.  If they never offered OBC then announced this new concept of OBC but with higher up front prices I'd be left thinking "what idiot dreamt that up?"

 

[CaptTJ]

Will be monitoring this change, but I don’t expect it to affect much anytime soon. Maybe the up the prices later again. 

Basically from what I read, this promotional practice of offering the incentive to book early didn’t pay out for them.

You would think they would try a different promotion, but axing it is cool too (sarcasm).

At least there will be opportunities to get OBC during sales. Iv always been amused with Royals promotions and sales, I price out the same cruise during multiple sales and the price rarely changes, it’s all a play in words. 

[monctonguy]

Has anyone seen a drop in the prices after Nov 1st to offset the removal of OBC?

 

Must be someone out there who has found  a better deal.....or let me guess..all the prices are the same or higher and NO obc?............

[princevaliantus]

I see pricing to be higher, but we all knew that was going to happen.

[Rose City Cruiser]

We will have to wait for Nov 1st for cruises 6 months out for the final verdict.

[cruiselife]

On ‎8‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 6:07 PM, twangster said:

I'd be more upset if the opposite were true.  If they never offered OBC then announced this new concept of OBC but with higher up front prices I'd be left thinking "what idiot dreamt that up?"

This is so true. I don't understand the obsession with OBC. Of course it's great to have but all that really matters is the overall cost of the cruise. We can speculate all day about if they are going to actually lower the cruise fares or not but there is no point because there are so many factors involved in pricing. I'll just continue to calculate the total cost of a cruise on the different ships and lines I want to go on and make a decision. I suspect I'll still prefer Royal Caribbean over any other line at the moment.

[Matt]

It's also virtually impossible to actually track.  Prices can change hourly, and cruise fare is not like going to the Gap and seeing how much a pair of jeans cost today versus two weeks from now.

To accurately get a sense of the change, you would have to accrue a great deal of historical data across many different points to ascertain any kind of a price trend.

Anecdotal evidence is anything but irrefutable proof.

[princevaliantus]

34 minutes ago, Matt said:

It's also virtually impossible to actually track.  Prices can change hourly, and cruise fare is not like going to the Gap and seeing how much a pair of jeans cost today versus two weeks from now.

To accurately get a sense of the change, you would have to accrue a great deal of historical data across many different points to ascertain any kind of a price trend.

Anecdotal evidence is anything but irrefutable proof.

Bingo!!! You just divulged my secret!! 

[karl_nj]

9 hours ago, monctonguy said:

Has anyone seen a drop in the prices after Nov 1st to offset the removal of OBC?

 

Must be someone out there who has found  a better deal.....or let me guess..all the prices are the same or higher and NO obc?............

 

I don't think they claimed that they were going to reduce prices to offset the lack of OBC.  The way I read their release was that the non-refundable price would continue to be cheaper then the refundable price.  Which is sort of silly, because why else would you chose non-refundable if it wasn't cheaper?

There is no way they were going to reduce prices to take into account the lack of OBC, because non-refundable OBC doesn't "cost" them as much as "real cash" (non-refundable OBC, at least).  You have to spend onboard in order to use it.  That $14 cocktail doesn't cost them $14 to produce, part of it is profit.  In addition, the OBC for the non-refundable fare would block adding OBC from something like the Shareholder Benefit.