Baltimore Bridge collapse

[Gilley]

How long do you anticipate it would take to repair and have ships and other traffic moving on and under the bridge?  Do you think we are talking a few months or a year or more?

[Atricks]

Clearance will likely take a least a month (maybe a few weeks if they really pile on).  The entire bridge and the cargo ship need to be cleared out.  (cargo ship would need to get unloaded first) 

As for the bridge itself, the closest analog in the Tampa Bay Sunshine Skyway collapse in between Bradenton and St. Pete in 1980 and that didn't reopen until 1987.  It'll probably be years before they rebuild a bridge there.  One key difference is Skyway had two spans so they just converted the undamaged one into a 2 lane road until the new one was built.  Key bridge is gone in both directions.  (They potentially may have an opportunity to make it taller to allow the bigger ships.. Bay bridge near Annapolis may still limit that though since it has about the same clearance )

[Reigert2008]

9 minutes ago, Atricks said:

Clearance will likely take a least a month (maybe a few weeks if they really pile on).  The entire bridge and the cargo ship need to be cleared out.  (cargo ship would need to get unloaded first) 

As for the bridge itself, the closest analog in the Tampa Bay Sunshine Skyway collapse in between Bradenton and St. Pete in 1980 and that didn't reopen until 1987.  It'll probably be years before they rebuild a bridge there.  One key difference is Skyway had two spans so they just converted the undamaged one into a 2 lane road until the new one was built.  Key bridge is gone in both directions.  (They potentially may have an opportunity to make it taller to allow the bigger ships)

They are building a new bridge between Ohio and Kentucky and they expect it to take 8 years.  This new bridge was prioritized in the Infrastructure act, so 8 years is after it was given priority. 

 

Hopefully all sides will pull together to resolve it quickly. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brent_Spence_Bridge

[smokeybandit]

The Chesapeake Bay has a litany of special environmental concerns. It's going to be a long time before that bridge is rebuilt.

They'll likely just focus on clearing the channel to re-open shipping, then tear down the rest of the superstructure to get it out of the way while they begin thinking about a rebuild.

[Jmccaffrey]

38 minutes ago, Atricks said:

  (They potentially may have an opportunity to make it taller to allow the bigger ships.. Bay bridge near Annapolis may still limit that though since it has about the same clearance )

	Francis Scott Key Bridge (Baltimore) 185 feet (56 m)  and the Chesapeake Bay Bridge is 186 feet

[RCIfan1912]

3 minutes ago, Jmccaffrey said:

	Francis Scott Key Bridge (Baltimore) 185 feet (56 m)  and the Chesapeake Bay Bridge is 186 feet

I was just gonna say on a very, very superficial, and inconsequential level this will mean a much bigger bridge where bigger ships including cruise ships will be able to port there. 

[USCG Teacher]

3 hours ago, coneyraven said:

The Captain Issued a MayDay before hitting the bridge

 

https://www.times-news.com/news/update-cargo-ship-lost-power-issued-mayday-before-hitting-bridge-governor-says/article_fe986901-2e20-514a-9679-32d90341719c.html?utm_source=times-news.com&utm_campaign=%2Fnews%2Fupdate-cargo-ship-lost-power-issued-mayday-before-hitting-bridge-governor-says%2Farticle-fe986901-2e20-514a-9679-32d90341719c.html%3Fmode%3Demail%26-dc%3D1711464541&utm_medium=auto alert email&utm_content=read more

This undoubtedly saved lives.  Not sure what Law Enforcement agency is responsible for traffic over the bridge, but they reportedly had both sides closed down to traffic within minutes of the call.  The most recent information I've heard is that they've confirmed that there were no vehicles traveling across the span when it collapsed.  The officers were attempting to notify and clear the construction crews and vehicles that were working on filling pot holes when the collision occurred, but were unable to do so in time.  A tragic situation that could have been much, much more worse.

[RCIfan1912]

8 minutes ago, USCG Teacher said:

This undoubtedly saved lives.  Not sure what Law Enforcement agency is responsible for traffic over the bridge, but they reportedly had both sides closed down to traffic within minutes of the call.  The most recent information I've heard is that they've confirmed that there were no vehicles traveling across the span when it collapsed.  The officers were attempting to notify and clear the construction crews and vehicles that were working on filling pot holes when the collision occurred, but were unable to do so in time.  A tragic situation that could have been much, much more worse.

Both amazing and sad. Incredible they closed traffic that fast but sad they couldn't get the guys working on the bridge.  

When we watched the video on a big screen it looked like traffic stopped or no one was on the bridge other than the construction crew and I was like boy that's some luck there was no traffic at that time. But now we see they were able to close it off to traffic. 

[smokeybandit]

Someone on twitter posted the audio call from Baltimore police dispatch out to all units. Quite eerie.

[Al Miller]

1 hour ago, Jmccaffrey said:

	Francis Scott Key Bridge (Baltimore) 185 feet (56 m)  and the Chesapeake Bay Bridge is 186 feet

I'm from Maryland and before I got into Cruising I always assumed the Chesapeake Bay bridge was MUCH taller than the Key bridge. I guess because its a suspension bridge with the accompanying  huge spires it seems so much taller then the cantilever style of the Key Bridge. 

[Al Miller]

1 hour ago, RCIfan1912 said:

Both amazing and sad. Incredible they closed traffic that fast but sad they couldn't get the guys working on the bridge.  

When we watched the video on a big screen it looked like traffic stopped or no one was on the bridge other than the construction crew and I was like boy that's some luck there was no traffic at that time. But now we see they were able to close it off to traffic. 

Its crazy! looks like the last cars crossed like 30 seconds before the impact. Maybe 45 seconds.

[RCIfan1912]

26 minutes ago, Al Miller said:

Its crazy! looks like the last cars crossed like 30 seconds before the impact. Maybe 45 seconds.

When me and a guy from work were watching the video we were like yelling "hurry up, oh my God make it"  because there were a truck or two and we winced waiting for the bridge to fall but the trucks made it thankfully. Then the traffic seemed to stop and the bridge came down.

[Cez]

Of course the most important thing is that our thoughts and prayers are with those who are dead or missing in this terrible tragedy.

Do you know if cruise port and other marine traffic is affected by this accident ?

[fireclan]

Yes. The collapsed bridge and cargo vessel are blocking the channel and the Patapsco River.

[smokeybandit]

 

[steverk]

4 hours ago, Atricks said:

Clearance will likely take a least a month (maybe a few weeks if they really pile on).  The entire bridge and the cargo ship need to be cleared out.  (cargo ship would need to get unloaded first) 

As for the bridge itself, the closest analog in the Tampa Bay Sunshine Skyway collapse in between Bradenton and St. Pete in 1980 and that didn't reopen until 1987.  It'll probably be years before they rebuild a bridge there.  One key difference is Skyway had two spans so they just converted the undamaged one into a 2 lane road until the new one was built.  Key bridge is gone in both directions.  (They potentially may have an opportunity to make it taller to allow the bigger ships.. Bay bridge near Annapolis may still limit that though since it has about the same clearance )

Hopefully, the state of Maryland recognized that the bridge was obsolete and due for replacement and had started engin6the replacement. Not likely,  but one can hope.

[SpeedNoodles]

4 hours ago, USCG Teacher said:

This undoubtedly saved lives.  Not sure what Law Enforcement agency is responsible for traffic over the bridge, but they reportedly had both sides closed down to traffic within minutes of the call.  

The Mayland State Police have jurisdiction, however locals will respond to any emergent situation. The State Police get to write the report.

[smokeybandit]

Carnival is temporarily moving to norfolk.

[RCIfan1912]

46 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Carnival is temporarily moving to norfolk.

I don't know if Royal Caribbean can do the same but there isn't many options. Cancel cruises until it's clear or move to another port. They can't move the cruises to NJ because there is only one birth and the other ships here will be using it. 

[smokeybandit]

Authorities have called off search and rescue ops for the missing people.

[Gilley]

I have. Cruise scheduled out of Baltimore in October.   I will see what options they offer.  

[smokeybandit]

22 minutes ago, Gilley said:

I have. Cruise scheduled out of Baltimore in October.   I will see what options they offer.  

October will be perfectly fine. It's the cruises through April and maybe into May that'll have issues. After that the only difference will be lack of a bridge.

[RCIfan1912]

23 minutes ago, Gilley said:

I have. Cruise scheduled out of Baltimore in October.   I will see what options they offer.  

It'll be clear for October, you will be fine for that cruise. 

[fireclan]

2 hours ago, SpeedNoodles said:

The Mayland State Police have jurisdiction, however locals will respond to any emergent situation. The State Police get to write the report.

I'm wondering if it's the MDTA - 

The MDTA Police are responsible for law enforcement at the MDTA's bridge and tunnel thruways, highways, the Baltimore Washington International/Thurgood Marshall Airport and the Port of Baltimore.

[RCIfan1912]

When is Vision due back to Baltimore? Decision is the need to be made pretty quickly. 

[Southern Dan]

I think April 4th…

[RCIfan1912]

Just now, Southern Dan said:

I think April 4th…

Ok so they have a few days but the passengers need to know very quickly what the deal is for transportation purposes alone. Royal has to make plans and things in place for this move too. 

[SpeedNoodles]

52 minutes ago, fireclan said:

I'm wondering if it's the MDTA - 

The MDTA Police are responsible for law enforcement at the MDTA's bridge and tunnel thruways, highways, the Baltimore Washington International/Thurgood Marshall Airport and the Port of Baltimore.

Possibly, although it's also an Interstate Highway.  In any case, no matter whose jurisdiction it belongs to, anybody close would respond lights and sirens and block it off.

[Pattycruise]

Carnival has reportedly made plans to bring their current sailing into Norfolk.  I’ve not heard about the Baltimore cruise that left this past Saturday-I believe they are a 12 day sailing so they have some time to figure it out. 

[ScottD]

5 hours ago, RCIfan1912 said:

Ok so they have a few days but the passengers need to know very quickly what the deal is for transportation purposes alone. Royal has to make plans and things in place for this move too. 

I know the people and workers in Baltimore are going through it, but it must also kind of suck to be on a cruise for another week and all you're going to be worried about is how you are going to get your car and where you are going when it's over...hard to enjoy yourself when you know what happened in Baltimore, and still don't know what GOING to happen at the end of the trip. 

[BrianB]

Prayers to all of those affected by this horrible tragedy.

I’m sure the investigation will be federally led and include the Coast Guard, NTSB and other federal investigative agencies.

The loss of commerce due to the stoppage of container vessels and also the interstate road system used by trucking will be substantial. Although rerouting vessels and vehicles to other ports and roads will quickly take precedence. 

As for replacement cruise ports…Bayonne is a good possibility. There are many days each week where there are no ships in port. Right now it’s only the Anthem on Sundays. In May it will be the Liberty and Symphony. There’s also the possibility of the Manhattan Cruise Terminals which consist of piers 88, 89 and 90. Pier 88 is the one most used at this time…primarily by NCL. There is also the Brooklyn cruise port used primarily by MSC and Cunard.

[HeWhoWaits]

13 hours ago, steverk said:

Hopefully, the state of Maryland recognized that the bridge was obsolete and due for replacement and had started engin6the replacement. Not likely,  but one can hope.

The Key Bridge was scheduled for deck replacement in 2025. That budget certainly won't cover the cost of removal of the debris, let alone replacement.

[RCIfan1912]

50 minutes ago, BrianB said:

Prayers to all of those affected by this horrible tragedy.

I’m sure the investigation will be federally led and include the Coast Guard, NTSB and other federal investigative agencies.

The loss of commerce due to the stoppage of container vessels and also the interstate road system used by trucking will be substantial. Although rerouting vessels and vehicles to other ports and roads will quickly take precedence. 

As for replacement cruise ports…Bayonne is a good possibility. There are many days each week where there are no ships in port. Right now it’s only the Anthem on Sundays. In May it will be the Liberty and Symphony. There’s also the possibility of the Manhattan Cruise Terminals which consist of piers 88, 89 and 90. Pier 88 is the one most used at this time…primarily by NCL. There is also the Brooklyn cruise port used primarily by MSC and Cunard.

I thought Brooklyn might be an easy move till the bridge is cleared. That could be a possibility. 

[smokeybandit]

RC likely just has to accommodate the next 2 cruises since after drydock the channel almost assuredly will be open again.

I would think they'd try an alternate port since it's just 2 cruises. Might be more of a PITA but at least there's still revenue flowing.

[smokeybandit]

 

[RCIfan1912]

9 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

 

That is some devastation. That ship is in bad shape man. That needs to be fixed before it can move on. 

[smokeybandit]

27 minutes ago, RCIfan1912 said:

That is some devastation. That ship is in bad shape man. That needs to be fixed before it can move on. 

As long as it still floats it'll be fine to get out of there to wherever the closest shipyard is that can handle it.

[smokeybandit]

The Port of Baltimore could reopen in May, according to a logistics executive who has cargo facing long delays aboard the ship that destroyed the Francis Scott Key Bridge early Tuesday.

“I don’t think this closure is going to last that long, maybe six weeks or something like that is what I’m hearing,” said Jim Monkmeyer, president of transportation at DHL Supply Chain, a Deutsche Post unit based near Columbus, Ohio. “I’m hearing May – nobody is saying when in May — that’s why I’m saying six weeks.”

https://www.ajot.com/news/port-of-baltimore-may-reopen-in-six-weeks-dhl-executive-says

[Kim from Dundalk]

Any idea when options will be announced for upcoming cruises?   Due to sail next Thursday from Baltimore.   Hopefully refund is option.  I don’t want to take a bus for 4 hours to Norfolk like Carnival is now doing.  

[RCIfan1912]

They can't have the port closed too long that for sure. The whole thing is a tragedy, but the port has to reopen ASAP. The are ships stuck in there.