Question(s) regarding "big ships"

[RCVoyager]

Due to a number of factors, my wife and I were on our first cruise (Carnival Mardi Gras) since 2016 last week (with mother in law and son in separate cabin).  The ship is beautiful.  The food opportunities are amazing.  But, beyond that we found lots of disappointment most of which can be blamed on the simple fact there are just too darn many passengers on the ship (5200 to 6500 depending on double occupancy vs max occupancy).  There are people everywhere all the time.  The elevators are horrible, during peak times almost impossible.  If you try to wait your "turn" someone will cut you, and you will wait longer.  Then it was almost always to case, just as we were about to board, someone on a cart or wheelchair would show up, and we would mostly make a spot for that person... causing more delays.

The food was ok to good... and there are about 25 eateries of one sort or another on that ship... most of which are included in the cruise price, but again flocked with passengers all the time.  A few dishes we had were really good, but for the most part, the food was just ok.  It was often delayed or not as warm as it should be when it arrived.  Three times during the week, our entrée arrived before our appetizer.  Three times! 

We did meet a woman who had none of those issues.  There is a level at which you face none of that.  She dined at the highest end eateries all week (up to $100 per person per night), and in fact claimed there is a special elevator to her deck with few passengers.  We saw that hall down a discreet door that appears to be a crew only door.  We thought that interesting.

At first, our Cabin Steward seemed slow and not interested.  That was until we had a minute to talk to him.  The guy had 35 cabins to take care of.  35.  I don't know what it should have been, but 35 seemed ridiculous to us.  It seems that about half of that should be the "norm".

We did not see this as a service problem in the least.  All of the crew on board seemed worked to their limits, yet all kept a smile.  To us, it all came down to the problem of too many passengers.

So, here is the question:  Is this sort of thing happening on RCCL's mega ships?

That was my 20th cruise, and I was left glad we did it, but will not do that ship again.

One other thing, and my wife thought it a non issue, but it was a big issue to me is this:  When I walk to a rail to look at the sea or the coast of an island, I am accustomed to a rail that is about chest high to my 5'7" stature.  All of the public rails on the Mardi Gras are at least 5 feet high, and it fact are double wide with a thick piece of glass on the back of them.  Somewhere I have a photo of this and can share once I dig it out.  I've always enjoyed standing at the rail and watching that beautiful world unfold around me, and with this set-up a full 1/3 of my field of vision (at the bottom) was blocked.  I hated that.  A huge disappointment for me, and I don't believe it enhances safety at all.  If someone want to jump, you still can.  If someone wants to throw you over, he/she still can.  I contend no-one ever "fell" overboard without doing something stupid, and you still can.  Is this the case on RCCL's newest ships?

Thanks in advance for feedback.

 

[Colombia20102018]

In my opinion, the RCI service is very good but it is always possible to experience some of the issues you are listing regardless of the size of the ship. I don’t know the rail height but five feet sounds about right for most decks. 

[ScottD]

Royal's Oasis class ships are the big ones, and they have done an amazing job making them not feel over crowded. I just got off Oasis, and the only time I ever felt like there was close to 7000 people was the elevators after 3 shows finished at the same time in the theater area. Other than that, it's so spread and and stuff going on everywhere, it never feels packed. It's pretty impressive, actually 

[tonyfsu21]

The Oasis class ships don’t seem crowded at all for the most part. The exception is always going to be the elevators and the buffet regardless of the size of the ship. If you are able bodied then the stairs are always an option. As for service, that’s hit or miss depending on the ship and the venue. I’ve had entire cruises with exceptional service across the board and others that were pretty bad. In late 2023 it’s all about managing expectations. If you pick apart every aspect of your cruise regarding service, food quality (and the list goes on) you will find plenty of flaws and room for improvement. IMHO time is better spent focusing on the fact that you are fortunate enough to have the ability to afford a vacation  that many families are not able to take. 

[ChessE4]

Ditto other posts. One of the biggest crowds I saw was on the small Grandeur trying to get chocolate on New Years. I gave up...

[RCVoyager]

1 hour ago, ScottD said:

Royal's Oasis class ships are the big ones, and they have done an amazing job making them not feel over crowded. I just got off Oasis, and the only time I ever felt like there was close to 7000 people was the elevators after 3 shows finished at the same time in the theater area. Other than that, it's so spread and and stuff going on everywhere, it never feels packed. It's pretty impressive, actually 

ScottD, the 5 foot rail has not been standard on on any of my previous 19 cruises.  In the photo you will see the inner rail which was approximately the standard of every other ship I've been on.  It is about chest high to me.  When you add in the secondary rail and the glass, it's up to my chin.  It cuts a full 1/3 of the view for a person my height (5'7") It would cut more if you are shorter, and less if you are taller.

I am a person who would spend time each day looking at whatever there is to see off the rail.  It was a major limitation for me.

[RCVoyager]

1 minute ago, RCVoyager said:

ScottD, the 5 foot rail has not been standard on on any of my previous 19 cruises.  In the photo you will see the inner rail which was approximately the standard of every other ship I've been on.  It is about chest high to me.  When you add in the secondary rail and the glass, it's up to my chin.  It cuts a full 1/3 of the view for a person my height (5'7") It would cut more if you are shorter, and less if you are taller.

I am a person who would spend time each day looking at whatever there is to see off the rail.  It was a major limitation for me.

Sorry Scott.  That reply was meant for Columbia who said the 5' rail seems standard.  

[RCVoyager]

1 hour ago, tonyfsu21 said:

The Oasis class ships don’t seem crowded at all for the most part. The exception is always going to be the elevators and the buffet regardless of the size of the ship. If you are able bodied then the stairs are always an option. As for service, that’s hit or miss depending on the ship and the venue. I’ve had entire cruises with exceptional service across the board and others that were pretty bad. In late 2023 it’s all about managing expectations. If you pick apart every aspect of your cruise regarding service, food quality (and the list goes on) you will find plenty of flaws and room for improvement. IMHO time is better spent focusing on the fact that you are fortunate enough to have the ability to afford a vacation  that many families are not able to take. 

Absolutely Tony, I am thankful that we are able to do trips like this.  My post was not meant as a complaint.  It was meant as a question as to whether or not this stuff happens on Royal's big ships.  We did this on the cheap and took inside staterooms because this was our second major vacation of the year (did 2 weeks along the Pacific Coast, Yosemite, Muir Woods, and Lake Tahoe and some of those places were incredibly crowded as well).

During the course of the week, we learned of ways to avoid some of the bottlenecks, but much of it could not be avoided.  My wife, son, and I did a lot of stairs.  My m-i-l can't, so oftentimes we would be sure she was safely on a lift, and then we would take the stairs, but when going from deck 6 to deck 14, it's not always what we wanted to do.

I did not mention in my first post that my m-i-l was pushed, at one point,  by a male adult able bodied passenger who did not think it necessary to wait his turn.  I saw it happen and since she didn't fall, I chose not to escalate the situation.  It almost appeared as though he wanted me to do so.  Had she fallen, I would have not had a choice in the matter.

We are no doubt blessed to have these opportunities, but don't want to be in situations where we have to rely of the goodness, or even proper behavior of others, in order to take a vacation and not be inconvenienced or in my m-i-l's case assaulted in huge crowds of people.  If this is what mainstream cruising is becoming, we will probably pass or take small ships like Windstar, ect.  We would have to go less often due to cost.

[ScottD]

40 minutes ago, RCVoyager said:

Sorry Scott.  That reply was meant for Columbia who said the 5' rail seems standard.  

That's ok... I don't think the rails are 5 feet...at least not on the room balconies, as my son who is 5' even could rest his elbows on them and look over. 

[toddpop]

My wife and I recently cruised on Vision of the Seas, a smaller ship (2500 max), and often ran into similar issues in regards to getting elevator access. 

We also chose to take the stairs most times that we could to avoid the joslting and hassle of dealing with the elevator crowd.

I think it is more an issue of number of people vs. number of elevators x places where people want to go... and how well the ship/cruise line manages events and activities.

just my .02$

[OCSC Mike]

I sail almost nothing but Oasis class and agree with most of the comments above. The crowds are handled well and I avoid elevators at all costs.

[steverk]

I sailed Allure in June. The crowds were well distributed, but always present. It's not a ship to get away from it all.

The railing was normal in every way. About chest high. I don't recall any glass on most of it. The front was higher as a wind break though. 

The elevators are the worst. They're always full and have a frustrating algorithm that sends empty elevators passing your floor many times. The ship is too tall to avoid the elevators entirely. 

[OCSC Mike]

8 minutes ago, steverk said:

The ship is too tall to avoid the elevators entirely.

That of course depends on your fitness, cabin location, where you spend time, etc. I'm lazy and don't exercise, so although I'm thin, I'm not exactly in great shape cardio-wise. We usually stay on a middle deck (10 or so) and I rarely take the elevator. Walking 5-6 decks isn't a big deal to me (as lazy as I am, I agree the elevators suck).

On Wonder in June while being treated to a Deck 17 GS, I had the brilliant idea to walk up to our cabin after an aqua show from 6 to 17. Now that was a bit rough but I made it.

[ScottD]

14 minutes ago, OCSC Mike said:

That of course depends on your fitness, cabin location, where you spend time, etc. I'm lazy and don't exercise, so although I'm thin, I'm not exactly in great shape cardio-wise. We usually stay on a middle deck (10 or so) and I rarely take the elevator. Walking 5-6 decks isn't a big deal to me (as lazy as I am, I agree the elevators suck).

On Wonder in June while being treated to a Deck 17 GS, I had the brilliant idea to walk up to our cabin after an aqua show from 6 to 17. Now that was a bit rough but I made it.

My kid loves to use the stairs- I used them MUCH more than expected and my calf muscles let me know about it. We were on 14 so going up to windjammer and pool decks were great... when he wanted to go to the promenade or walking to dinner on 3, phew. 

[Geezer Of The Seas]

7 hours ago, RCVoyager said:

 But, beyond that we found lots of disappointment most of which can be blamed on the simple fact there are just too darn many passengers on the ship (5200 to 6500 depending on double occupancy vs max occupancy).  There are people everywhere all the time.  The elevators are horrible, during peak times almost impossible.  If you try to wait your "turn" someone will cut you, and you will wait longer.  Then it was almost always to case, just as we were about to board, someone on a cart or wheelchair would show up, and we would mostly make a spot for that person... causing more delays.

So, here is the question:  Is this sort of thing happening on RCCL's mega ships?

 

 

Wife and I have done far fewer cruises than you, but with ships sailing at 100% (double occupancy) or greater, there will be public areas that can be "suffocating" regardless of ship size. We sailed on Jewel last November (Thanksgiving week). 100% occupancy, it was busy, but our place of 'refuge' was specialty dining, our balcony, and the Solarium. In April this year, we sailed on Wonder. The main pool deck was...............well, unenjoyable for us; spent a lot of time in the Solarium (folks aren't in love with the pools/water features, but seating availability was never a problem). We didn't eat in the main dining room (by choice), the Windjammer only a couple times. Winged it the rest of our meals with Room Service, Sorrentos, El Loco Fresh, Johnny Rockets, Giovanni's, and 150 Central Park. A security officer told me the ship was 263 passengers short of a head in every bed. The elevators? They are a zoo with high passenger loads and as you observed, the law of the jungle applies.  Wonder was a phenomenal ship, but we won't go on anything that large again. We don't need a floating amusement park, but that's us. We are fond of Mariner and Jewel, but Jewel isn't home porting at Port Canaveral any longer.

To experience the 'smaller' side of life, we booked a reservation on HAL Nieuw Amsterdam for November '24. Saw her docked in Aruba last year while we were on Jewel. Comparable in size to Jewel, think we'll enjoy her.

[smokeybandit]

All ships were designed to not make their big ("big" in relative terms as to the time they were built) size impact guests.

Staffing-related issues can pop up on any ship and typically are a temporary thing that anyone experiencing them just had bad timing on.

[JasonOasis]

I love sailing on Adventure but in my opinion Adventure feels more crowded than any Oasis Class ship that I've been on especially since Royal did away with the in person emergency drill.  Royal has done their homework with the Oasis Class ships and I'm sure that will carry over to Icon Class ships where despite these ships size they don't feel crowed at all.  Whereas some older smaller ships can feel a bit crowded at times because of their design.

[BrianB]

In my opinion…

Royal’s neighborhood design really serves to spread out the passengers on the Oasis class. It feels like there is always somewhere to go where it’s exciting and loud…or someplace quiet, calm…even serene.

Instead of having a particular vibe throughout an entire ship…they made it so it seems like I’m on multiple ships with different sailing styles and customers. Each neighborhood is separate but easy to get to. I can go from the party atmosphere on the pool deck to the quiet of Central Park…or the streetscape of the Promenade…or the low key style of the adult-only Solarium. The entertainment is varied and excellent…especially the AquaTheater show.

Yes, there are lots of people. But to me, it’s not an overwhelming feeling of crowding and jostling. Just got to avoid the buffet on embarkation day…but that’s pretty much on every ship.

I love the large ships and all they offer. The Oasis class is, to me…the best. Can’t wait to try Icon!

[Anders11]

As shown here in the link below Royal Caribbean ships tend to have significantly higher space to passenger ratios than Carnival:

https://cruisefever.net/most-crowded-cruise-ships-by-passenger-space-ratio/
 

Mardi Gras is a huge ship but has a relatively poor space to passenger ratio.

 

[RCVoyager]

I turned my survey in for this cruise last night.  Something I've never done before is to give several 2's and 3's (on a scale of 0-10), but I did here.   I actually gave out a 0 for one of the restaurants.   In the comments section I made sure to emphasize that my issues were not with anyone on board.  My issues were based upon the fact this ship cannot handle to crowd that was put on it.

When asked the chances of me booking another cruise within 12 months, I scored it a 6.  When asked if it would be with Carnival, a 2.  

I doubt anyone cares, but as a customer with 20 cruises under my belt (9 of which are on Carnival), they should care.

I didn't get nasty, stomp my feet, or say never again.  I did make my points which are valid.

It will be interesting if I hear anything from them.

[jbrinkm]

On 10/16/2023 at 8:45 AM, steverk said:

I sailed Allure in June. The crowds were well distributed, but always present. It's not a ship to get away from it all.

I agree with this. We were on Allure in April on a sold out ship. One place we felt the crowds the most were in the activities held in the smaller venues and we were unable to attend certain game shows and trivia because they filled up really, really early (sometimes an hour before the event). That was a bummer because we didn't do most of the big shows since we'd seen them the year before when we were also on Allure and wanted to experience different types of entertainment. Also WJ was pretty difficult on port mornings. It was NOT a quick "grab breakfast and go" location at all because of seating shortages and just moving around to try to get anything on your plate. 

[JB17]

I've wondered how crowded Mardi Gras would feel given that its max capacity is only 7% less than Wonder's max capacity even though Mardi Gras is 25% smaller than Wonder. Sounds like it's pretty crowded. 

[Cruisegirl1976]

I have sailed on Royal, NCL, and just tried Carnival for the 1st time .. the Mardi Gras back in Feb, and it was a one and done for me.. we felt rushed in the main dining room, then waited forever in the italian restaurant.  They only had one section of the buffet open.. the line was horrible just to get some food. The lines for shows backed up into the casino. Hubby and I will stick with Royal from now on. 

[Jolly Ogre]

We like the Oasis class as even we don't go to all the popular venues, but the other people on board do, which leaves other areas of the ship less crowded.

[RCVoyager]

23 hours ago, Cruisegirl1976 said:

I have sailed on Royal, NCL, and just tried Carnival for the 1st time .. the Mardi Gras back in Feb, and it was a one and done for me.. we felt rushed in the main dining room, then waited forever in the italian restaurant.  They only had one section of the buffet open.. the line was horrible just to get some food. The lines for shows backed up into the casino. Hubby and I will stick with Royal from now on. 

As mentioned above, this was my 20th cruise, my 9th with Carnival.  As Anders11 and JB17 pointed out above, there are statistics that show how utterly crowded this ship is.  

The Mardi Gras, and all the others in it's class, are an insult to cruising.  Someone at Carnival needs to take a look at what's going on with those ships and make changes.

This is coming from the guy who is the biggest Carnival defender on this board or anywhere else the topic comes up.  No more.

[Doug_Texas]

We are now sitting in Orlando airport after a week on Wonder.  It was amazing that you can get that many people on a ship and not feel like it.  Getting on and off at ports (pier) was amazing - perhaps the least wait time we’ve ever had.  Love that they moved “sexiest man” contest away from the pool to the Aqua Theater.  Was a bit concerned that there was no broadway style show but Effectors II was amazing.

We picked 6th floor so we could use stairs to Promenade on 5 and Royal Lounge on 4 and it really helped in avoiding the elevators.

If we could figure out how to manage unsupervised kids playing elevator games pushing all the buttons when they get off and hitting the door close button on every stop the elevators might even be tolerable.