Venting...Customer Service/IT

[Bruin Steve]

Background:  We booked Quantum August 21 Alaska cruise many months ago...Wife and I plus we booked the cruise for both daughters/sons-in-law.

Younger daughter's husband's first Royal cruise, so we had them call RCCL to sign him up for Crown & Anchor with match to her Diamond status.  They did this months ago and were told it was done.

Time passes...It gets to check-in day.  After checking in, five of us, Set Sail passes show Diamond Plus or Diamond, as appropriate...Son-in-law's Set Sail pass is blank in that spot.  I have them call Crown & Anchor again...First, they tell him he's only "Gold"...but, after some discussion, they say they've fixed it and that he's all set as Diamond...  But, he needs to enter his C&A number in the "Guest Information"...but, they don't know his C&A number...

The next day, I call C&A...they give me his C&A number, but they say he's only Gold.  I ask to speak to a supervisor and go through it all again with them...the Supervisor says he shows up as Gold--but it will take three days for it to show correctly on the website.

I wait three days and try to input the C&A number...and get an error message saying the C&A number is incorrect.  I call C&A and, this time, the agent says he can't discuss it with me--only directly with my Son-in-law.  I ask for a supervisor.  The supervisor tells me he's showing as Gold, but she'll expidite an immediate fix...and he'll be Diamond in just a couple of minutes.  An hour later, the website still shows the C&A number as incorrect.

I write an email to Michael Bayley's office...and a day or so later I get an email back from someone in his office telling me that he can confirm that the C&A number is correct and that he is Diamond...but it may take up to five business days.

Then I have an epiphany.  I'm figuring that the Diamond thing IS fixed...and the number IS correct...but what would make it show up as incorrect on the RCCL website?  I'm thinking there's a TYPO somewhere in the system.  Everything on the booking looks correct, so why doesn't the C&A number show as correct?  I call C&A and ask them to check his C&A membership...and, sure enough, they have his name misspelled!  Whoever created the account transposed two letters.  A simple fix, correct?  

NO!  The agent with whom I am speaking...who just looked up the account for ME...and who just told me everything that was on the account...said he couldn't correct it unless my Son-in-law called him directly to request that "the change" be made (My son-in-law, BTW, has a job that precludes him from easily making phone calls during business hours).  I asked to speak to a supervisor.  Surely someone could correct an error made by someone at RCCL in the first place?  NOPE.  No one at RCCL feels themselves authorized to correct a very simple and OBVIOUS typo!

 

[Pattycruise]

Personally, I’d call up and represent myself as my son-in-law.  This is not evil intent, it’s a helpful intent.  I see nothing morally wrong.  Just know DOB, email etc.

[HeWhoWaits]

7 hours ago, Pattycruise said:

Personally, I’d call up and represent myself as my son-in-law.  This is not evil intent, it’s a helpful intent.  I see nothing morally wrong.  Just know DOB, email etc.

I've posed as both of my sons for this purpose with other companies. It works.

[PPPJJ-GCVAB]

7 hours ago, Pattycruise said:

Personally, I’d call up and represent myself as my son-in-law.  This is not evil intent, it’s a helpful intent.  I see nothing morally wrong.  Just know DOB, email etc.

I’ve done this a few times before…yes, I know it’s a bit deceitful but at the same time…it works!   

[CrimsonCruiser]

I also say call up as the SIL. Just let SIL know you're doing it but otherwise..you're just trying to help,

 

Also....it's ridiculous that you've had this much back and forth and craziness. It's insane how much a simple typo can break things. Back when I was applying for colleges, I guess at some point my first and last name  got flipped on some documents on their end.....and despite no one I know of having the first name "smith" it took them MONTHS to realize the mistake and I ended up losing out on any scholarship money they all agreed I would have qualified for.....

[Xaa]

Ugh, what a hassle.  I'm sure, outside of this event, you understand the issue with them modifying another person's account without speaking to that person.  Your SIL is lucky to have you on the watch!

[Bruin Steve]

1 hour ago, Xaa said:

Ugh, what a hassle.  I'm sure, outside of this event, you understand the issue with them modifying another person's account without speaking to that person.  Your SIL is lucky to have you on the watch!

I understand the issue well...and the reasons for the policy.  It would make sense if we were trying to cancel the reservation, change the cabin or category, make charges to the account, delete or add a passenger altogether or some othe matter with financial or liability implications.  But this is just to correct an obvious error that THEY created!  The booking has his name spelled correctly. All of the entries on the web page have his name spelled correctly.  The only place the name is spelled wrong is on the registration of the Crown & Anchor account...and anyone looking at it can clearly see that it is the same exact (and unusual spelling) of the first name and the last name merely has the third and fourth letters transposed.  It's clearly a simple typo. Think if someone named "John Smith" had their name in their C&A account spelled "John Smtih"...except, it's far more likely there is a C&A member named "John Smtih" than someone with the name they have down in my son-in-law's account!

I would just like someone at Royal Caribbean to say "Wow! That's obviously an error...I'll just fix it for you!".

[Xaa]

22 minutes ago, Bruin Steve said:

I would just like someone at Royal Caribbean to say "Wow! That's obviously an error...I'll just fix it for you!".

They'll probably say and do that for your SIL.

Anyone auditing them or their calls will not look kindly on any reason they use to update the information on someone's account based on a call from somebody else.

For the folks that service accounts at my place of business, if they have 1 instance of this, they are written up and lose the ability to collect monthly bonus for 3 months which for them would be around $7500.  There is no leniency offered that it was clear and obvious and that the FIL almost certainly had authorization from the SIL.

I do hate that you've had to go through this.  I do consider it normal and rooted in the protection of the account holder.

[DDaley]

4 hours ago, PPPJJ-GCVAB said:

I’ve done this a few times before…yes, I know it’s a bit deceitful but at the same time…it works!   

This works PERFECTLY for my husband and I because he can easily call and say he’s Daryl and no one ever questions it. His name is Adrian so it works the same way for me! I hate talking on the phone (literally the only business I don’t mind calling is RCCL) so he’s the “adult” amongst us who handles customer service reps. 

[CruisingNewb]

The time you spent repeatedly making phone calls and such truly does suck, especially because it was administrative error on RCCL's part.

On the other hand, and I ONLY SAY THIS AS AN OBSERVER, it give me peace of mind that RCCL sticks to its guns and follows protocol.  Honestly, yeah...I have called places posing as my father or brother, lol even my wife, because I was in the position to take time and talk on the phone.  BUT--I realized really quickly that over-the-phone verification does not require much info and it would be really, really, really easy for anyone to call and impersonate someone else.  Simple place of birth, DOB, residence address info seemed to be enough in many cases.

Regardless of our intent, and regardless of the familial connection, posing as someone else is fraud and may be criminal in most places.  In the USA, posing as someone else while using the telephone elevates the crime to a federal crime (interstate commerce laws).

Simply put, don't do it.  I can stand proud and support a company that will stick to protocol for the safety of others, even if it made me mad as hell that they screwed up to begin with.

P.S. Moral of this story should be....USE A TA.  They have written consent to be your agent and could have had all of the above issues fixed at little to zero cost to you.  RCCL pays TA's commissions, you don't.

[PPPJJ-GCVAB]

Ok so when I planned my upcoming Oasis cruise and booked the rooms for everyone coming (7 rooms…17 people) first thing I did was get permission to “act as agent” for all the rooms.  In other words, I am listed on each reservation number as someone who can manage that reservation, even though I have my own reservation.  Since first booking in October I have called numerous times for price drops and each time the rep needed to confirm I was listed on the reservation(s) with permission to advocate for whomever I was doing something for.  Never had an issue and I’m not sure why but I NEVER wait more than a minute to speak to someone at Royal!

In the past…yes, I have called as someone else and also never had a problem.  Many of those calls were during the COVID cancellation period and was mostly trying to figure out FCC stuff.  I understand posing as someone else can be a crime but my involvement with that is always as if I am the TA…because I book the cruises for whomever are joining me and my husband and they prefer me dealing with whatever.  I have the time and the knowledge…only thing I don’t have is a TA license!  

 

[deep1]

As someone who has been gold twice, platinum twice, and about to be Emerald for the second time because of C+A errors, I feel your pain.  The office you contacted  (Bayley) often gets stuff fixed that other reps simply don't have the skill set for...  I would have tried to call in as someone else but my baritone voice would be a dead give away  that I'm not my Fiancée's teen age daughter...   Hope your issue gets sorted out. I'm on the sailing right after yours...

[Bruin Steve]

Okay...a few points:

1) I book through a TA...HOWEVER, my TA is always incredibly busy, she's three hours off my time, time-zone-wise and has days off.  I try not to bother her too much with stuff I can handle on my own.

2) I AM the agent for all three bookings.  They all show up on MY log-in.  I can and have made dining reservations for all three, booked shore excursions for all three, booked entertainment for all three.  I could check-in any of the three reservations and I can access the reservations to do things like, for example, input the Crown & Anchor numbers.  The same agents who have disclosed, directly to me alone, all of the information on the Crown & Anchor account are the same ones who won't correct it for me!

3) I won't--and haven't--impersonated anyone else in dealing with RCCL or anyone.  I have been nothing but straightforward in dealing with RCCL.

4) Corporate policies are often instituted for very good reason...and consisteny in applying them is often admirable.  But "policy" should never be the be-all, end-all reason to do anything.  "Policy" isn't LAW, it's procedure/guidelines.  If policy clearly shouldn't apply, then representatives, or, more likely, within the corporate structure, the SUPERVISORS, should be able to override the policy in the interest of common sense.  "Policy" here appears to be a convenient excuse at best.  If you can have this set up to where I CAN reserve and book excursions, dining reservations and entertainment for these bookings and where I can check-in and make changes to the bookings and where I can access the bookings, you should be able to deal with me on correcting an error that is getting in the way of efficiently managing the booking.  After all, I am the one who originally booked and PAID FOR all three bookings.

[Ampurp85]

55 minutes ago, Bruin Steve said:

Okay...a few points:

1) I book through a TA...HOWEVER, my TA is always incredibly busy, she's three hours off my time, time-zone-wise and has days off.  I try not to bother her too much with stuff I can handle on my own.

2) I AM the agent for all three bookings.  They all show up on MY log-in.  I can and have made dining reservations for all three, booked shore excursions for all three, booked entertainment for all three.  I could check-in any of the three reservations and I can access the reservations to do things like, for example, input the Crown & Anchor numbers.  The same agents who have disclosed, directly to me alone, all of the information on the Crown & Anchor account are the same ones who won't correct it for me!

3) I won't--and haven't--impersonated anyone else in dealing with RCCL or anyone.  I have been nothing but straightforward in dealing with RCCL.

4) Corporate policies are often instituted for very good reason...and consisteny in applying them is often admirable.  But "policy" should never be the be-all, end-all reason to do anything.  "Policy" isn't LAW, it's procedure/guidelines.  If policy clearly shouldn't apply, then representatives, or, more likely, within the corporate structure, the SUPERVISORS, should be able to override the policy in the interest of common sense.  "Policy" here appears to be a convenient excuse at best.  If you can have this set up to where I CAN reserve and book excursions, dining reservations and entertainment for these bookings and where I can check-in and make changes to the bookings and where I can access the bookings, you should be able to deal with me on correcting an error that is getting in the way of efficiently managing the booking.  After all, I am the one who originally booked and PAID FOR all three bookings.

I often book all the rooms and such for my group of friends and family when we cruise. I make all the payments, book excursions and packages etc. Even when I had a TA, I was the agent and decision maker. 

Just because you can add excursions, check people in etc., doesn't mean you have complete control or access to the bookings. I have had no issues making payments, changing incorrect C&A numbers etc. but to make changes to names and pax on the bookings, I was required to have access to make changes. That means any booking that I was not on, required permission from the people on the other booking. That is what you have run into. 

[Bruin Steve]

9 minutes ago, Ampurp85 said:

...but to make changes to names and pax on the bookings, I was required to have access to make changes. That means any booking that I was not on, required permission from the people on the other booking. That is what you have run into. 

EXCEPT the bookings themselves are entirely accurate and correct.  It's the C&A account an RCCL employee created for our Son-in-Law that is the issue.  My daugfhter and Son-in-law personally called RCCL to create it.  Our daughter is Diamond. Our SIL has never been on a Royal Caribbean cruise.  They called to have it done so he can get those matching benefits. I am pretty sure he spelled his name correctly for them.  When I discovered the issue, I had THEM call again.  They went through the whole thing again...and nothing got fixed.  HE needs to call?  He called TWICE.  They got frustrated and asked me to deal with it.  That's how we got here.  They have no confidence that Royal Caribbean can fix it EVEN IF HE CALLS personally.  He's done it twice already!

[teddy]

My last name has an apostrophe and it regularly gets screwed up as it relates to my C&A number.  

It’s not just Royal either…..a Crown and Anchor misspelling is much better than most airline’s software not recognizing apostrophes but having one on my passport and PreCheck.  You know that part about “Your ticketed name must exactly match what’s on your passport”….mine rarely does, but I’ve learned things work out.  
 

Worst case is he can go see the Loyalty Ambassador onboard.  They’ll take care of his status and he’ll be all set.  
 

It’s way easier to fix things in person.   I loathe talking on the on the phone anyway. 

[Ampurp85]

11 minutes ago, Bruin Steve said:

EXCEPT the bookings themselves are entirely accurate and correct.  It's the C&A account an RCCL employee created for our Son-in-Law that is the issue.  My daugfhter and Son-in-law personally called RCCL to create it.  Our daughter is Diamond. Our SIL has never been on a Royal Caribbean cruise.  They called to have it done so he can get those matching benefits. I am pretty sure he spelled his name correctly for them.  When I discovered the issue, I had THEM call again.  They went through the whole thing again...and nothing got fixed.  HE needs to call?  He called TWICE.  They got frustrated and asked me to deal with it.  That's how we got here.  They have no confidence that Royal Caribbean can fix it EVEN IF HE CALLS personally.  He's done it twice already!

You are making a change, not to the booking per se but to personal info. I had an issue similar to yours when my BFF mom's name was wrong in C&A. She had sailed before but they couldn't find her because drumroll, the last name has an S. She called to fix it twice before it was. The rep repeated the name back but somehow the system kept removing the S. Royal IT and reps most often leave a lot to be desired. I hope things work out for you.

[CruisingNewb]

On 7/14/2023 at 2:29 PM, Bruin Steve said:

Okay...a few points:

1) I book through a TA...HOWEVER, my TA is always incredibly busy, she's three hours off my time, time-zone-wise and has days off.  I try not to bother her too much with stuff I can handle on my own.

2) I AM the agent for all three bookings.  They all show up on MY log-in.  I can and have made dining reservations for all three, booked shore excursions for all three, booked entertainment for all three.  I could check-in any of the three reservations and I can access the reservations to do things like, for example, input the Crown & Anchor numbers.  The same agents who have disclosed, directly to me alone, all of the information on the Crown & Anchor account are the same ones who won't correct it for me!

3) I won't--and haven't--impersonated anyone else in dealing with RCCL or anyone.  I have been nothing but straightforward in dealing with RCCL.

4) Corporate policies are often instituted for very good reason...and consisteny in applying them is often admirable.  But "policy" should never be the be-all, end-all reason to do anything.  "Policy" isn't LAW, it's procedure/guidelines.  If policy clearly shouldn't apply, then representatives, or, more likely, within the corporate structure, the SUPERVISORS, should be able to override the policy in the interest of common sense.  "Policy" here appears to be a convenient excuse at best.  If you can have this set up to where I CAN reserve and book excursions, dining reservations and entertainment for these bookings and where I can check-in and make changes to the bookings and where I can access the bookings, you should be able to deal with me on correcting an error that is getting in the way of efficiently managing the booking.  After all, I am the one who originally booked and PAID FOR all three bookings.

I am truly sorry that you had to go through these things.  My comments were for the advancement of this forum and to offer perspective for future cruisers and new members.  I didn't mean to diminish your feelings and experience.

1. This is the one statement that I cannot understand though.  TA's are busy.  I get that.  But TA's are supposed to be busy.  Its their job.  They get commissions.  The whole point of a TA is to act as your agent and intermediary. If a TA is too busy to handle things like that, that is unfortunate.

2. In legal terms, "agent" means something very different from someone who pays for and can set parameters to a sailing.  In terms of correcting personal info errors, even if it is RCCL's fault, an agent is someone who is legally authorized, through written or some acceptable form of verbal, consent.  If you are an agent for your son-in-law and adult daughter, then something is truly off and RCCL is in the wrong.

3. I never meant to insinuate you were impersonating anyone.  In fact, I don't think I even said that.  The comment was in response to others suggesting it.  Like I said, I am guilty of it too.

4. I think you misunderstand the terms "policy", "procedure", and "law."  Nothing that a private company states is "law."  Law is only imposed by recognized government institutions.  Policy and procedure are contractual and sometimes binding terms that are like a law.  In any event, if a company has a policy and procedure behind that policy, we shouldn't expect that any level of employee has authority to interpret those policies and procedures because if that were the case, a whole lot of misunderstandings would take place.  A manager or senior management would have authority to interpret and implement.  I stand by my opinion that when it comes to personal info information, RCCL was being prudent even if they made the initial mistake.  Again, just because I paid for something on someone else's behalf, doesn't mean I am any type of agent or someone who can make unilateral decisions on behalf of that person.  I can pay for my brother to have a surgery, but without written consent, I cannot tell the doctors what to do nor can I seek certain personal medical information.  

[Sharla]

10 minutes ago, CruisingNewb said:

This is the one statement that I cannot understand though.  TA's are busy.  I get that.  But TA's are supposed to be busy.  Its their job.  They get commissions.  The whole point of a TA is to act as your agent and intermediary. If a TA is too busy to handle things like that, that is unfortunate.

This is true, and while a C&A status wouldn't be top priority it would be something I would handle as soon as possible. Just because it's not an emergency doesn't mean it's not important. 

[Bruin Steve]

10 hours ago, CruisingNewb said:

I am truly sorry that you had to go through these things.  My comments were for the advancement of this forum and to offer perspective for future cruisers and new members.  I didn't mean to diminish your feelings and experience.

1. This is the one statement that I cannot understand though.  TA's are busy.  I get that.  But TA's are supposed to be busy.  Its their job.  They get commissions.  The whole point of a TA is to act as your agent and intermediary. If a TA is too busy to handle things like that, that is unfortunate.

2. In legal terms, "agent" means something very different from someone who pays for and can set parameters to a sailing.  In terms of correcting personal info errors, even if it is RCCL's fault, an agent is someone who is legally authorized, through written or some acceptable form of verbal, consent.  If you are an agent for your son-in-law and adult daughter, then something is truly off and RCCL is in the wrong.

3. I never meant to insinuate you were impersonating anyone.  In fact, I don't think I even said that.  The comment was in response to others suggesting it.  Like I said, I am guilty of it too.

4. I think you misunderstand the terms "policy", "procedure", and "law."  Nothing that a private company states is "law."  Law is only imposed by recognized government institutions.  Policy and procedure are contractual and sometimes binding terms that are like a law.  In any event, if a company has a policy and procedure behind that policy, we shouldn't expect that any level of employee has authority to interpret those policies and procedures because if that were the case, a whole lot of misunderstandings would take place.  A manager or senior management would have authority to interpret and implement.  I stand by my opinion that when it comes to personal info information, RCCL was being prudent even if they made the initial mistake.  Again, just because I paid for something on someone else's behalf, doesn't mean I am any type of agent or someone who can make unilateral decisions on behalf of that person.  I can pay for my brother to have a surgery, but without written consent, I cannot tell the doctors what to do nor can I seek certain personal medical information.  

NewB,

Thanks for the lecture, however, I probably know at least a little more about the legal concepts of "agency", "law" vs. "policy" vs. whatever (I was making the point that policy is NOT law) and other issues I've written about than you seem to give me credit for.  I spent a 35 year career as a corporate attorney and executive for some of the largest corporations in the country--or the world...including major companies in the hospitality industry and 23 years as an executive and in-house attorney for a $60 billion corporation.  I've written more "policy" than you've likely ever read.

[CruisingNewb]

13 hours ago, Bruin Steve said:

NewB,

Thanks for the lecture, however, I probably know at least a little more about the legal concepts of "agency", "law" vs. "policy" vs. whatever (I was making the point that policy is NOT law) and other issues I've written about than you seem to give me credit for.  I spent a 35 year career as a corporate attorney and executive for some of the largest corporations in the country--or the world...including major companies in the hospitality industry and 23 years as an executive and in-house attorney for a $60 billion corporation.  I've written more "policy" than you've likely ever read.

I was not trying to lecture anyone. I am sorry you felt that way. Again, this forum is a fan forum and although bad experiences and issues for improvement are great to discuss, if a post is somewhat one-sided, I try to advocate and offer my opinion for the other perspectives.  This is how robust discussions occur in my opinion and goes a long ways for the forum, fans, and potential new cruisers.

Lastly, I never meant for any of this to be a pissing match.  I always assume there are people with more experience, intelligence, wisdom than me.  I try to give deference when due.  But what I will NEVER do is to take someone else a notch down for the sake of proving my point, or to offer opinions/suggestions.  

I apologize and will leave the post for you to vent.

[Bruin Steve]

Getting back to the actual subject matter, an update:

After a couple more phone calls...and enlisting the help of someone in the Executive Offices, everything is finally settled.  My son-in-law's name is spelled correctly in RCCL's records, his C&A number is attached to his reservation and his Set Sail Pass accurately shows his status as "Diamond".