Jump to content

Alaska 2021 - Maybe NOT a total loss? (topic edit as of 2021-05-21)


Recommended Posts

It really looks like the entire 2021 cruise season for Alaska is in serious danger of getting totally wiped out. My wife and I were set to cruise in June of 2020... which turned into May of 21.... which looks like will flip to 2022. This Canadian TA on YouTube has an interesting take on the situation:
 

 

I think Provincial and national gov officials in Canada have implied over the last couple of months that they don't see normal leisure travel until a vaccine is widely available to ordinary people. That may not happen for Canadian residents until September....  

Edited by AshleyDillo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This morning on CBC, Joseph Jean-Pierre Marc Garneau, the Canadian equivalent of the U.S. Transportation Secretary, said in an interview that he will extend the ban on cruise ships (500+ passengers) at all Canadian ports through at least August 1. The existing ban runs through February 28.

Due to the need for cruise ships to stop in Canada on their way to/from Alaska, this effectively kills most of the 2021 Alaska Cruise Season, leaving only August and September only if it's not extended again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, princevaliantus said:

This morning on CBC, Joseph Jean-Pierre Marc Garneau, the Canadian equivalent of the U.S. Transportation Secretary, said in an interview that he will extend the ban on cruise ships (500+ passengers) at all Canadian ports through at least August 1. The existing ban runs through February 28.

Due to the need for cruise ships to stop in Canada on their way to/from Alaska, this effectively kills most of the 2021 Alaska Cruise Season, leaving only August and September only if it's not extended again.

If he does what he says,  then the only way to save the season is for the US to suspend the PVSA. I suppose it is possible, but highly unlikely. ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, steverk said:

If he does what he says,  then the only way to save the season is for the US to suspend the PVSA. I suppose it is possible, but highly unlikely. ?

They would also need to reform immigration law so foreign crew could work in the USA without a work VISA.  The current C-1/D VISAs are specific to ship crew and do not allow "working" in the USA.  A ship that never visits another country only dipping in and out of international water briefly is not considered to have left the country causing C-1/D VISA holders to overstay their VISA.  This is the same immigration law that prevents gambling cruises to nowhere from the USA.  

Waiving the PVSA and waiving immigration law is even less likely.  Tourism is not the primary economic driver in Alaska (oil and gas) so it's hard to imagine Congress doing this just for South East Alaska while the entire country is suffering from the impact of the pandemic.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, CruiseFamily said:

We have a reservation on the July 2nd Ovation sailing, looks like we'll need to change that...

Newbie question???  Why do ships have to stop in Canada on their way to/from Alaska, is it a supplies issue?  Just wondering as they do transoceanic cruises that are longer...

@twangsteris far more knowledgeable about this than me....but it is a requirement of the Passenger Vessel Services Act (PVSA) that @twangsterdiscussed above.  It's very complicated and convoluted but it basically says that a passenger vessel must visit a "distant foreign port".  It is the reason that foreign airlines cannot transport passengers within the US.  For instance, British Airways cannot carry passengers between Miami and San Francisco.  So in order for Royal Caribbean to do an Alaska itinerary, it must visit a port in Canada or it is in violation of PVSA. It's waaay more complicated than that, but that is the part of the Act that applies here.

Regarding transoceanic cruises.  The reason why (for instance) Royal cannot cruise directly from Honolulu to Seattle is b/c of the PVSA.  They MUST come to the US port via a distant foreign port.  So those TransPacific cruises that come from Australia by way of Honolulu must stop in Canada (or Mexico, if they so chose) before terminating in Seattle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The PVSA applies to vessels that perform "coastwise" trade between US ports.  A transocean voyage that embarks or debarks in another country isn't "coastwise" between US ports since the voyage is to or from another country.

Seattle round trip to Alaska is "coastwise" since Seattle and all ports in Alaska are US ports.  The port of call stop in Canada is one way to be legal with respect to the PVSA.   There are other ways to satisfy the PVSA when a cruise isn't round trip but that's another story.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, teddy said:

Guess we’d better think about booking the week we want in 2022.   
 

Seems like there could be a lot of lifting and shifting from ‘21 to ‘22 happening shortly. 

I'm planning on my June Celebrity Solstice cruise to be canceled,  but I'll hang in there just in case.

Gotta stay optimistic! Sooner or later it'll work out 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I kinda think that they'll just write off Alaska for this year.  This is all just assumption but if they're planning a phased restart of ships, with shorter itineraries, mostly to private islands, then I'd just ignore Alaska for the time being rather than create extra work.  They're going to have a ton on their plate just getting things ramped up, this is an easy way to simplify it some and put the "blame" for canceling the season on someone else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, joshgates said:

I kinda think that they'll just write off Alaska for this year.  This is all just assumption but if they're planning a phased restart of ships, with shorter itineraries, mostly to private islands, then I'd just ignore Alaska for the time being rather than create extra work.  They're going to have a ton on their plate just getting things ramped up, this is an easy way to simplify it some and put the "blame" for canceling the season on someone else.

Plus most of the ships are on the other side of the world and have more chance of starting earlier there. Quantum already operating in Singapore and there is hope for Australia later this year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, markinct said:

Selfish feelings aside, I really worry about the towns that get a good injection of cash from the cruise industry, and the excursion operators. How are they going to make it after 2 empty years? 

Like all tourist towns they will suffer but they are not unique in this respect looking across America.  There are places like Myrtle Beach for example which has only the tourist industry as it's economy.  It too has been devastated by the pandemic and while some virus deniers still go there business is way off.  There are tourist hotspots in Tennessee that are suffering.  Hawaii's tourist economy is devastated.  Ski destinations in Colorado are suffering terribly with business way off.

The majority of workers in the SouthEast Alaska tourism industry come from the South for the summer tourist season and then head home to whatever state they came from when the tourist season is over.  From bus drivers to boat captains they follow the tourists to other winter destinations.  My excursion boat captain spends winters in Hawaii taking tourists around there looking for whales for example. 

There are local businesses that are more mom and pa type shops and they are suffering like restaurant and bar owners across America are.  That's the thing - so many businesses across every state have been impacted it's hard to look at SE Alaska and not see the same that is occurring in so many other states that rely on tourism.  Florida for example - a much larger tourism economy has been ravaged by the pandemic since so few tourist are flocking to Florida compared to other years.  

If SE Alaska was the only tourist area impacted by the pandemic it would be one thing to feel like Congress needs to re-write laws to help them but on the other hand it isn't that SE Alaska is alone in this.  So many areas of the country have been impacted and Congress would respond that is what stimulus funding is for.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, monctonguy said:

Don't plan on any cruises that stop/start or have to port anywhere in Canada for 2021......we are a mess up here with cases and lack of vaccines/and or vaccination plans so when we are lagging behind the US for vaccinations per captia.....nothing is happening here in 2021 cruise wise!

Come to Florida.  We are vaccinating Canadians over 65.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, twangster said:

Come to Florida.  We are vaccinating Canadians over 65.

I just had an idea.  Perhaps Royal could offer vaccinations to people 30 days or more before a cruise.  I think people should get them done locally or in Florida or Seattle.  For the first vaccination it wouldn't matter where it was done.   The second one could be in Florida or Seattle prior to the cruise.  That would give Royal a degree of control assuming the CDC allows cruising again ... no vaccination ... no cruise.

As far as stopping in a distant foreign port ... why can't Canadians be allowed to originate a cruise from the US or Victoria, Canada.  It may require two stops in Victoria to pick up and drop off the Canadians.  Other nationalities could be required to stay onboard.  To my knowledge Canadians are allowed to fly out of Canada and return.  They might need to quarantine upon returning but still.  I bet Canada must accept their own citizens regardless of the mode of transportation.

Something needs to get worked out ... my Alaska cruise is August 30th.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Dad2Cue said:

As far as stopping in a distant foreign port ... why can't Canadians be allowed to originate a cruise from the US or Victoria, Canada.  It may require two stops in Victoria to pick up and drop off the Canadians.  Other nationalities could be required to stay on board.  To my knowledge Canadians are allowed to fly out of Canada and return.  They might need to quarantine upon returning but still.  I bet Canada must accept their own citizens regardless of the mode of transportation.

Something needs to get worked out ... my Alaska cruise is August 30th.

Canada has closed it ports to vessels with greater than 250 capacity.  The first problem you'll encounter is getting a ship into a Canadian port to pick up Canadians.  

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, twangster said:

Canada has closed it ports to vessels with greater than 250 capacity.  The first problem you'll encounter is getting a ship into a Canadian port to pick up Canadians.  

 

Even it everyone onboard is vaccinated and only Canadians are allowed on or off the ship? 

I bet the control at a cruise terminal possibly could far exceed that which happens in airports.  It isn't just being on the plane,  it is tens of thousands of people arriving and departing at airports.  Canada's government needs to address this and so does the CDC. If we are required to wait until herd immunity is achieved through vaccination or otherwise... I think that will take a very long time and quite possibly, never in my remaining lifetime.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Dad2Cue said:

Even it everyone onboard is vaccinated and only Canadians are allowed on or off the ship? 

The port closure doesn't care about nationality.  

Canada is still advising against cruise ship travel:

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/diseases/2019-novel-coronavirus-infection/latest-travel-health-advice.html#cruise

They'll continue to advise against cruise ship travel until the risk has been significantly reduced.  

Even if someone enterprising company found a way around the current rules, the Government would quickly act to close any loophole that folks found to bypass their intent.  

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Listen..here in Atlantic Canada..I cant even go visit family in the neighboring province..not even if I want to quarantine for 14 days.....we are banned.....not a chance Canada is opening to cruise ships in 2021....we MAY see the border open for land crossings at some point with conditions I am assuming..but thats all I am hoping for this year and even that is a stretch it appears at this point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, monctonguy said:

Listen..here in Atlantic Canada..I cant even go visit family in the neighboring province..not even if I want to quarantine for 14 days.....we are banned.....not a chance Canada is opening to cruise ships in 2021....we MAY see the border open for land crossings at some point with conditions I am assuming..but thats all I am hoping for this year and even that is a stretch it appears at this point.

Wow ... I don't think there are any state to state restrictions here.  New York didn't care for it originally when other states were going to ban people from New York.  When things got under control in New York,  I think Cuomo in his infinite wisdom was going to ban 30 or so states from coming to New York.  As far as I know, everyone ditched that idea.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes..been that way here in Atlantic Canada since last March..they relaxed it slightly and they shut it all down with 1 person hospitalized .......pretty much.

 

2.4 million ppl...300 cases of covid and 1 person in the hospital and we are locked down tighter than fort knox....lol

 

Don't get me going on the government's plans to vaccinate criminals in jail before the rest of the population..that's another whole story....?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Dad2Cue said:

Wow ... I don't think there are any state to state restrictions here.  New York didn't care for it originally when other states were going to ban people from New York.  When things got under control in New York,  I think Cuomo in his infinite wisdom was going to ban 30 or so states from coming to New York.  As far as I know, everyone ditched that idea.  

NY has several travel restrictions and a form you're supposed to fill out. I believe (have not traveled outside of NY other than NJ) you're handed the form at the airport. Outside of that, I believe it's all voluntary with essential workers being exempt. 

https://forward.ny.gov/covid-19-travel-advisory

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hate to say it but I truly don’t think that any cruises involving Canada will happen this year.
 

Our government anticipates that anyone who wants a vaccine will be able to get one by September 2021 (that is the target). Canada has been relatively cautious throughout this whole mess, some provinces even more so than others, I highly doubt they will allow any ships carrying various nationalities or borders to be open until things are stable. 

Hubby and I decided that if we cannot cruise this summer (which I am more sure of by the day will be the case), and we are vaccinated, then we are heading west to the mountains. It will be like a faux Alaska trip. Lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Dad2Cue said:

Wow ... I don't think there are any state to state restrictions here.  New York didn't care for it originally when other states were going to ban people from New York.  When things got under control in New York,  I think Cuomo in his infinite wisdom was going to ban 30 or so states from coming to New York.  As far as I know, everyone ditched that idea.  

 

3 hours ago, sk8erguy1978 said:

NY has several travel restrictions and a form you're supposed to fill out. I believe (have not traveled outside of NY other than NJ) you're handed the form at the airport. Outside of that, I believe it's all voluntary with essential workers being exempt. 

https://forward.ny.gov/covid-19-travel-advisory

I am assuming constitutional lawyers advised Cuomo he can't ban travel from other states.  I'm not even sure the 14 day quarantine would hold up in court if challenged.  Only Congress can limit interstate travel and commerce.  No state can ban another state.  They can talk about it all they want but if they ever tried to close borders to any other state they'd be on the wrong side of the US constitution.  

The quarantine rule is something I'd love to see play out in court.  It is based on a presumption of guilt, that an individual is a threat when they haven't been proven to be a risk to anyone.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, twangster said:

I am assuming constitutional lawyers advised Cuomo he can't ban travel from other states.  I'm not even sure the 14 day quarantine would hold up in court if challenged.  Only Congress can limit interstate travel and commerce.  No state can ban another state.  They can talk about it all they want but if they ever tried to close borders to any other state they'd be on the wrong side of the US constitution.  

The quarantine rule is something I'd love to see play out in court.  It is based on a presumption of guilt, that an individual is a threat when they haven't been proven to be a risk to anyone.  

Yep. Besides being handed the form at the airport (not sure if they are still doing that) there is no way for anyone to know you're visiting or you left and came back. "Must complete the form" but it's basically on the honor system, as is quarantining... And, still allows travel to & through NY state, as you mentioned. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, monctonguy said:

Don't plan on any cruises that stop/start or have to port anywhere in Canada for 2021......we are a mess up here with cases and lack of vaccines/and or vaccination plans so when we are lagging behind the US for vaccinations per captia.....nothing is happening here in 2021 cruise wise!

How messed up is it in Canada?  It would be hard for me to believe it is more messed up than here in the US.  However, the US doesn't seem quite as bad as places in Europe (UK?).  Except for the politics of it all, it seems the US isn't doing that badly.  An election year made covid much worse.  Take note that Iowa is a rural state and we haven't had too many restrictions placed on us.  I expect to be vaccinated this spring ... June at the latest.   We have problems but they don't seem overwhelming.

I live in a town with a large university medical center with close to 1,000 beds.  The hospital basically emptied out in the beginning in anticipation of a huge influx of covid patients.  The hospital lost a lot of money while being empty and had to open back up.  I believe that the worst day was when 10% of the hospital beds were occupied with covid patients.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, twangster said:

 

They can talk about it all they want but if they ever tried to close borders to any other state they'd be on the wrong side of the US constitution.  

That constitution does have a way of getting in the way of all the power players.  Same goes for all the experts and their expert ideas.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Dad2Cue said:

How messed up is it in Canada?  It would be hard for me to believe it is more messed up than here in the US. 

It’s not. But it’s not great either. We’re all just going to have to ride this thing out. 
 

Actually, the east is doing way better than the rest of Canada. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Dad2Cue said:

How messed up is it in Canada?  It would be hard for me to believe it is more messed up than here in the US.  However, the US doesn't seem quite as bad as places in Europe (UK?).  Except for the politics of it all, it seems the US isn't doing that badly.  An election year made covid much worse.  Take note that Iowa is a rural state and we haven't had too many restrictions placed on us.  I expect to be vaccinated this spring ... June at the latest.   We have problems but they don't seem overwhelming.

I live in a town with a large university medical center with close to 1,000 beds.  The hospital basically emptied out in the beginning in anticipation of a huge influx of covid patients.  The hospital lost a lot of money while being empty and had to open back up.  I believe that the worst day was when 10% of the hospital beds were occupied with covid patients.

I guess it's all relative to what you are used to. If 3000 deaths from covid a day is usual then when you get 2000 you are doing relatively well. Our state borders in Australia get closed when there is a couple of cases in a day because most states have been covid free for months and dont want even one case. Bonus for these states is that life is pretty much normal other than some social distancing measures.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hope they can find a way to salvage the Alaska Season, but it isn't looking good. What is a good alternate Cruise to take closer to home (US/TX) that isn't the same ol' same ol' Cancun/Cozumel/Roatan?  I want to go new places and I don't think I can wait until Summer 2022 to go on a cruise vacation!

Past Cruises:

Norwegian Jewel 2012 Western Caribbean

Norwegian Epic 2017 Western Caribbean

Royal Caribbean 2019 Western Caribbean

Canceled Cruise:

Royal Caribbean Ovation 2020 Alaska Glacier

Future Cruises:

Royal Caribbean Ovation 2021 Alaska Glacier

Norwegian Encore 2022 Eastern Caribbean

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, markinct said:

I'm so sorry to read this. I do hope you'll be able to see him soon! 

Thank you.  My wife’s brother is able to get there occasionally as he is able to do the long quarantines required on either end of the trip as well as meet the requirements once in country. The internet makes things better since video chatting is simple, however my wife and her sisters would just like to see their dad. 
 

In reference to cruising, we feel that based on the requirements for getting into Canada with a compassionate waiver, leisure travel is a long, long way off. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, emmef said:

I hope they can find a way to salvage the Alaska Season, but it isn't looking good. What is a good alternate Cruise to take closer to home (US/TX) that isn't the same ol' same ol' Cancun/Cozumel/Roatan?  I want to go new places and I don't think I can wait until Summer 2022 to go on a cruise vacation!

Past Cruises:

Norwegian Jewel 2012 Western Caribbean

Norwegian Epic 2017 Western Caribbean

Royal Caribbean 2019 Western Caribbean

Canceled Cruise:

Royal Caribbean Ovation 2020 Alaska Glacier

Future Cruises:

Royal Caribbean Ovation 2021 Alaska Glacier

Norwegian Encore 2022 Eastern Caribbean

 

I would plan on a land trip for summer 2021.

I wouldn't count on cruising for this summer and if there is cruising it may just be short cruises to Coco Cay.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, bretts173 said:

I guess it's all relative to what you are used to. If 3000 deaths from covid a day is usual then when you get 2000 you are doing relatively well. Our state borders in Australia get closed when there is a couple of cases in a day because most states have been covid free for months and dont want even one case. Bonus for these states is that life is pretty much normal other than some social distancing measures.

Not sure if life is "normal"...locked down for a year and social distancing still enforced.....but hey, to each their own. Not how I want to live my life ever.

 

Number of cases means nothing really..only thing that matters is  deaths and hospitalizations to a point(if it becomes overwhelming)......

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • AshleyDillo changed the title to Alaska 2021 - Maybe NOT a total loss? (topic edit as of 2021-05-21)

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...