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On 11/19/2022 at 2:28 PM, Chili said:

If it made any sense,Royal should get together with Carnival and some foreign aid group and build a decent wharf here.

Port Vila and Vanuatu is a lovely place. I once had to go there for work and unexpectedly spent two weeks there. I will say that it's lovely for a day or two, but trying to find a way to keep yourself entertained in off-hours for two weeks is...tricky 🙂  The people are incredible, though. 

As someone from a developing country in Africa, though, the sceptic in me says that Carnival + Royal have enough money to build a decent wharf on their own without using foreign aid that could go to much better causes. But I'll end my opinions there. 

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Looks like New Zealand is going to help with the rebuilding/developing the wharfs in Vanuatu. Most of the money is to support their interisland shipping which is critical to Vanuatu's economy and infrustracture. 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/south-pacific/130557203/new-zealand-supports-vanuatu-with-10m-to-build-climateresilient-wharfs

Hopefully this will also give them the infrustructure to build on and look at upgrading their cruise ship infustrature.

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1 hour ago, Chili said:

Looks like some local politics in play.  I'm unsure how the government works there.  Is the Chief and their tribe in control over everything on the island or is there another governing body that controls some matters?

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3 hours ago, twangster said:

Looks like some local politics in play.  I'm unsure how the government works there.  Is the Chief and their tribe in control over everything on the island or is there another governing body that controls some matters?

Yeah politics or tribal customs but it seems to me ,that in the first paragraph it says Ovation will be visiting Lelepa in the coming months.

They could use the overnights in Vila to do a day in Lelepa then a day in Vila.

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I still wonder what they will offer at Lelepa that you can’t get at other Islands. I have already read that is won’t be a Cococay of the South Pacific but certainly Mystery Island seems to be more set up to offer an experience than Lelepa over the next few years.

I am slightly biased as we we really enjoyed Mystery Island on our last visit.

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On the surface it seems like Royal made the Lelepa deal with one governing body but now the Chief wants in on the action.  I can't imagine the Chief would be taking the position stated if they were already in the loop. 

“We don’t want them to approach a middle person instead of the rightful owner. With close collaboration I think its ok to visit but approach the rightful people of the land.”

It makes me wonder what's going on in the local politics of Lelepa.  It doesn't seem like the Chief or the tribe was involved in the original deal.  

Royal maybe finding itself in the middle of a squabble between local factions and if that gets ugly enough they could back out.

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24 minutes ago, Chili said:

It sounds like there’s going to be a clash of cultures .

 Indigenous values opposed to  a multinational corporation. But that’s the whole idea of the resort, bringing the world to experience the island.

 

Sounds like the Chief wants to be the person directing the process.  It's not so much that the Chief is against the project or that it's the tribe versus a big multinational corporation, the Chief just wants to be in control of it, ensuring they aren't locked out or watching from the sidelines.   Seems reasonable.

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13 minutes ago, twangster said:

Sounds like the Chief wants to be the person directing the process.  It's not so much that the Chief is against the project or that it's the tribe versus a big multinational corporation, the Chief just wants to be in control of it, ensuring they aren't locked out or watching from the sidelines.   Seems reasonable.

From memory the island is very religious, I wonder how that’s go to go with alcohol ,bikinis and loud music.

But from Royal’s side they want to bring in people with expertise from construction through to mixing drinks and the locals want to control it.

I bet they are wishing the had outright ownership of the land.

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12 minutes ago, Chili said:

From memory the island is very religious, I wonder how that’s go to go with alcohol ,bikinis and loud music.

But from Royal’s side they want to bring in people with expertise from construction through to mixing drinks and the locals want to control it.

I bet they are wishing the had outright ownership of the land.

I never got the impression Royal was trying to create CoCoLelepa.

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22 minutes ago, CruisingOz said:

This is no different to islands like Isle of Pines where the Chief oversees the island. I can recall being on a ship refused because the Chief was in dispute with Royal.

This will ne a nice beach beach and I can not wait to snorkel or dive there  

With the itineraries both Ovation and Quantum have ,they could quite easily do a couple of surprise visits to Lelepa,that’s if they had wharf of some kind.

Vila is nice but I don’t think it’s a suitable place for all the overnights they have this season.

A short day on Lelepa and around the corner to Vila for the next day, it would be a good advertisement.

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30 minutes ago, twangster said:

One CocoCay in the world is enough.  It's a great thing they have done especially as a stop close to Florida.  Labadee doesn't need to be CoCoLabadee either, different is good. 

CocoCay as built doesn't suit the South Pacific and I don't think the intention was to create that. 

There would be a lot of backlash if they did something like that.

We like Americans down here but we like being our self .

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2 hours ago, Chili said:

I have friends who are currently on Ovation in N.Z.

They just called ,they are docked in Auckland at the container terminal and apparently they where told,the container terminal can take a Oasis.
There’s a shuttle bus into the city but they said must better that tendering.

So one more Oasis port for down under.

There are likely other NZ ports that are Oasis capable but can you make an itinerary out of them that is optimized for this class?

Then there is the right sizing the ship to the itinerary.   They have enough sales data to know what size of ship can be sold to achieve desired load levels without having to discount to fill the ship week consistently week after week. 

It's not just about can they operate that route with an Oasis class in the black.  When they stand back and compare how much they could make with that same ship in a different market if they can make more money somewhere else then that is where the ship will go.  

How many NZ cruises are 7 nights from Oz?   They might only be able to make that work by using a NZ home port but now we talking about a whole other business case. 

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Another potentially related bit of news comes from China where Carnival has floated out their first Chinese built Vista class ship.  It's set to sail beginning in 2023 servicing the Maritime Silk Road, assuming cruising restarts in China in 2023.

Royal was seeing some success in China before the pandemic.  Once cruising restarts in China (and it will eventually) now they face some new locally made competition that will take away some of Royal's market share in China.

The glass half full view is that Royal may need to out-wow Adora Cruises and they can do that with Oasis class.

The glass half empty view is that with reduced market share there may not be the market to sustain a mega ship and Spectrum.   

Depending on the business impact Royal could decide that Spectrum is new enough and wow enough to take on the new competition from Adora by itself and that could impact the reasoning to put an Oasis class into the Pacific.  

Time will tell.

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10 hours ago, twangster said:

There are likely other NZ ports that are Oasis capable but can you make an itinerary out of them that is optimized for this class?

Then there is the right sizing the ship to the itinerary.   They have enough sales data to know what size of ship can be sold to achieve desired load levels without having to discount to fill the ship week consistently week after week. 

It's not just about can they operate that route with an Oasis class in the black.  When they stand back and compare how much they could make with that same ship in a different market if they can make more money somewhere else then that is where the ship will go.  

How many NZ cruises are 7 nights from Oz?   They might only be able to make that work by using a NZ home port but now we talking about a whole other business case. 

Ovation had to hover in the middle of the river in Auckland and tender. A real pain.

There was talk years ago of using the container terminal but like Sydney it was privately owned  . I think by Patrick.

So it seems Royal Caribbean has negotiated a deal to use the container terminal in Auckland.

Hopefully with the legislation just past to upgrade Newcastle container movements . Royal might negotiate a deal to use Port Botany container terminal in Sydney.

Oassis would quite easily fit into there but check in would have to be off site ,That would be the problem.

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Bluff could take an Oasis class at the smelter warf but.... it's Bluff (Grew up in Invercargill which is about a 30 min bus from Bluff. After you've visted Qeenspark (IMO best park in the world and I've been toe Hyde Park, Central Central, and Victoria Gardens and still rate it) you haven't got too many locations to visit.

Dunedin, Picton, Taruanga can. Auckland Ports (not actually privatly owned as mentioned above rather owned, mostly, Auckland Council) can if they are willing to give up docking space.

I'm not sure about Wellington. I'm guessing it could but not sure on that one.

Seems to be a few options for NZ, most of which are current ports of call.... the quesiton is... is their the demand and ability to generate revenue in Aust/NZ/Pacific for an Oasis class compared to what they generate in the US/Asia/European market?

 

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24 minutes ago, EmersonNZ said:

Bluff could take an Oasis class at the smelter warf but.... it's Bluff (Grew up in Invercargill which is about a 30 min bus from Bluff. After you've visted Qeenspark (IMO best park in the world and I've been toe Hyde Park, Central Central, and Victoria Gardens and still rate it) you haven't got too many locations to visit.

Dunedin, Picton, Taruanga can. Auckland Ports (not actually privatly owned as mentioned above rather owned, mostly, Auckland Council) can if they are willing to give up docking space.

I'm not sure about Wellington. I'm guessing it could but not sure on that one.

Seems to be a few options for NZ, most of which are current ports of call.... the quesiton is... is their the demand and ability to generate revenue in Aust/NZ/Pacific for an Oasis class compared to what they generate in the US/Asia/European market?

 

I think the subject is Oasis class down under?
Oasis could do the north island from Sydney and I think it would be a good itinerary.

Sydney ,Auckland , Tauranga  maybe Picton and up to Lelepa.

Probably 10 nights but what a itinerary ,it would be the best of everything.

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5 hours ago, Chili said:

I think the subject is Oasis class down under?
Oasis could do the north island from Sydney and I think it would be a good itinerary.

Sydney ,Auckland , Tauranga  maybe Picton and up to Lelepa.

Probably 10 nights but what a itinerary ,it would be the best of everything.

But that's all predicated on Sydney doing something to accommodate Oasis class which so far has been very slow to gain any traction and that was before the pandemic.  

They can't start planning a deployment on good intentions and wishes that something might occur in Sydney at some point in the future.  Until firm plans are put in motion with firm dates Royal will not waste any energy planning an Oasis deployment from Sydney.

At this moment the only sure thing is Brisbane as a home port for a mega sized ship as much as you dislike that fact.

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While it is pure speculation, I don't think an Oasis ship would be a particularly good fit for cruising around New Zealand. It seems to be far more suited to 7 nights to the Islands and back as the weather is warmer and more settled to make the most of all the outdoor experiences. Also, as @twangster said earlier it lends itself to a set repeatable itinerary, maybe just alternating between 2 groups of Islands and Lelepa, similar to an East / West Caribbean concept.

If it did come to NZ it would not be able to travel to Milford Sound as they want to remove large ships going into that region and that is probably one of the best attractions for cruising in NZ.

 

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8 hours ago, twangster said:

But that's all predicated on Sydney doing something to accommodate Oasis class which so far has been very slow to gain any traction and that was before the pandemic.  

They can't start planning a deployment on good intentions and wishes that something might occur in Sydney at some point in the future.  Until firm plans are put in motion with firm dates Royal will not waste any energy planning an Oasis deployment from Sydney.

At this moment the only sure thing is Brisbane as a home port for a mega sized ship as much as you dislike that fact.

A new cruise terminal for Sydney will be a few years away.

 Apparently Sydney port authority is in discussion with the cruise lines to create a new birth for cruise ships in port botany.

Where is the big question ,probably a temporary one in commercial docks and a then a new cruise terminal.

But the more oasis capable ports the better. Something must be in motion because there’s a little town south of Sydney called Eden. N.S.W ports are upgrading it specifically to accommodate a Oasis class.

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3 hours ago, Chili said:

A new cruise terminal for Sydney will be a few years away.

 Apparently Sydney port authority is in discussion with the cruise lines to create a new birth for cruise ships in port botany.

Where is the big question ,probably a temporary one in commercial docks and a then a new cruise terminal.

But the more oasis capable ports the better. Something must be in motion because there’s a little town south of Sydney called Eden. N.S.W ports are upgrading it specifically to accommodate a Oasis class.

Field of Dreams effect... If you build it, they will come.  

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11 hours ago, F1guynz said:

 

If it did come to NZ it would not be able to travel to Milford Sound as they want to remove large ships going into that region and that is probably one of the best attractions for cruising in NZ.

 

I must admit I am surprised they let Quantum class in there as it is (I love cruising not not sure if Milford is the place for a ship that size.

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On December 1, 2022, a lifeboat from Royal Caribbean’s Quantum of the Seas detached from its davits and fell aft-first into the water.

Captain Francesco Suma explained that the ship’s number 12 lifeboat, on the port side of the vessel, “hit the deck of the cruise ship, before falling over the side and into the water. As it settled into the water, the bow of the lifeboat also struck the side of the cruise ship. The lifeboat was retrieved with large dents and cracks on the starboard aft corner of the lifeboat, as well as damage to the fiberglass underside of the lifeboat.”

The lifeboat accident occurred during what appears to have been crew training or tendering operations.

 

https://www.cruiselawnews.com/2022/12/articles/lifeboat/quantum-of-the-seas-lifeboat-accident/

 

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Many years ago, on a repositioning cruise out of Bayonne on Explorer (I have no idea where the cruise terminated - cannot recall), we hit a wicked nor'easter which resulted in a lot of ship damage and also a damaged life boat.  After we safely made it through the storm (something that the Captain later said he would have avoided, had he recognized how bad it was going to be), we learned that if the ship had been at full capacity (which it was not) we would have had to turn around and go back to Bayonne, as the ship would not have been permitted into the ports of call with an inadequate life boat capacity.  As it turned out, we had more than enough life boat capacity relative to the number of cruisers, so we were good-to-go.  They just rigged the life boat in place (it looked like a$$ all tied up, but it was what it was at the time) and kept on cruising.  As I recall, the storm knocked out a set of glass doors on deck 5 and flooded one of the aft elevators.  It was the worst seas I have ever experienced.  So, missing or damaged life boats can affect your cruise in significant ways !

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