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UNCFanatik

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Posts posted by UNCFanatik

  1. 23 minutes ago, GregD said:

    I fully expect kids will be required to be vaccinated after a delay to allow people to get their shots. Richard Fain has always put out that vaccines are the way to get back to "normal cruising" so I don't expect him to back down from that.

    My son has his appointments scheduled already, and my daughter was in the Pfizer trial, so we just need to have her unblinding appointment. We will be all set for our upcoming cruise in February.

    Good luck with that business strategy. We will see how this rollout with children's vaccines go and how many parents have their children vaccinated. If it is a low percentage, dont expect the cruise lines to require vaccinations for those under 12. To do so, would eliminate family market and MANY cancellations will follow. I expect Fain to look at the bottom line. What would benefit Royal more is accepting natural acquired immunity in place of vaccinations

  2. On 10/29/2021 at 1:02 PM, PG Cruiser said:

    The last time I was in St Thomas, I made the mistake of booking the SkyRide excursion thinking it would take me to the famous Mountaintop.  Well, it did take me to the top of a mountain but it was an underwhelming experience.

    When I go back to St Thomas in November, I want to go to THE Mountaintop this time.  I also want to go to Magen's Bay.  Right now, there's nothing in the Cruise Planner that includes both.  Has anyone done a Royal excursion including both?  How was it?

    I’m debating between magens bay and sapphire beach at the moment. My ship won’t get into st Thomas until 12pm and there are 3 other ships in port that arrive early morning. Worried about crowds at magens beach 

  3. 18 minutes ago, rcrabb said:

    The CDC document released justifying their extension of the Conditional Sail Order reported many cases of COVID-19 infection of both crew and passengers on cruises with > 96% vaccination rates of passengers and 100% vaccination rate for the crews.  The CDC did not name the cruise lines by name but what is apparent is the cruise lines were obligated to reported the infection data to the CDC but did release the same information to the general public.  I understand the business reasons to keep the infection data close to the vest.  It also reveals cruising is not as risk free as it seems.  

    I would like the cruise lines to be more forthcoming with infection rate information so we all can decide for ourselves what the risks are and we are willing to take.

     

    https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/pdf/CDC-CSO-Extension-10-25-21-p.pdf

     

    If you choose to sail during a pandemic, you have to be able to assume some level of risk because the cruise lines cannot guarantee that you will not get Covid while on the ship just like they could never guarantee that you wouldnt get sick in the past from any number of illnesses. Even when Covid becomes endemic, it will join a list of respiratory viruses that one can catch anywhere including a cruise ship.  

    I agree that cruise lines should be as transparent as possible but the ultimate responsibility falls on the consumer and its up to the customer how much risk they are willing to assume

  4. 23 minutes ago, MrMarc said:

    Just realize, it seems that most people are assuming that all of these protocols stem from the CDC order.  None of us have any idea what any cruise line would do even if there were absolutely no recommendations or requirements.  Most people are assuming that they would do what they think is correct.  Unless you are the CEO of a cruise line, that is not a logical assumption.

    Just realize that the CEO of the cruise lines know that sick people on cruise ships do not equal good PR or increase revenue. 

    The cruise lines have a vested interest in protecting their passengers and that is what informs their health protocols. Notice that the CDC did not regulate the airline industry.

    Nor did they regulate Casinos in Las Vegas that operate very much the same way cruise ships with large amounts of people staying in hotels for a week, dining together, in the casino together, entertainment together. 

    The cruise lines know they have to appease the CDC right now to avoid shut downs moving forward. But most of the protocols we see now on cruise lines would have happened with or without CDC guidance and CDC ultimate overreach just like the CDC overreached on Evictions

    Edited to Add: and do you need the CDC in your daily life to tell you what activities and habits or activities are bad for your health or would you have come to that conclusion on your own with your personal freedom and responsibility

  5. 13 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

     

    I wouldn't cancel because of that. But due to such low incidence of covid cases on ships, adding a new protocol without getting rid of others (specifically, masks) sure would damper the experience.

    very true

    And to clarify, my intent was that I hope going on a  cruise would be the deciding factor for a parent of a 5-11 year old to get them vaccinated. 

  6. 9 minutes ago, JasonOasis said:

    I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with your point of view, I just have a question since you suggested Royal should ignore the CDC and follow Florida's vaccination laws.  My question is are you saying Royal should also ignore international laws for arriving passengers into other countries. Take the Bahamas as an example if Royal were following Florida's vaccination laws they would not be able to port in the Bahamas even at their own private island, and that is just one country there are a whole host of Caribbean Island nations that are now instituting entry requirements requiring passengers regardless of how their arrive (air or ship) to be fully vaccinated. 

    It is a conundrum and unfortunately Royal is stuck in the middle, it isn't just the CDC that Royal is following in order for their cruise ships to sail they also have to comply with the laws for the countries they intend to visit.  I'm not in favor of any mandates I think people should have a choice the unfortunate reality is this if Royal and other cruise lines wish to remain in business until this madness is over they are going to have to comply with rules put in place by the countries they intend to visit.  Complying with Florida's vaccine laws could result in a shutdown of the cruise industry or severely limit the ports Royal could visit as more and more Caribbean Island nations put vaccine requirements in place for all passengers.  At this point in the pandemic this has gone far beyond the CDC and their CSO and cruise lines are now having to operate a lot like airlines meaning if an airline wishes to fly to (for example Israel) that airline must check the vaccination status and COVID test for all passengers before they leave the US. If the airline isn't willing to comply with Israeli law requiring all passengers be fully vaccinated and also present a negative test then that airline can't operate flights into Israel. Israel isn't the only country there is a long list of countries requiring full vaccinations, and the next countries on the reopening list requiring full vaccinations for all passengers is Australia which reopens in a few days or weeks.  Starting November 1st anyone 12 and older traveling from the US to Canada will be required to show proof of vaccination (until now all you needed was a negative COVID test that all changes November 1st) and soon New Zealand when they reopen will require proof of vaccination.  It is unfortunate but this is where international travel is headed at least for most if not all of 2022 and cruises from the US are no exception because we have no domestic cruises.  

    Following Florida's vaccination laws would be a death sentence for Royal Caribbean and other cruise lines operating out of Florida because they can't afford to wait this out, they can't afford to wait until things go back to many of us would consider "Normal".

    I dont disagree with much that you are pointing out. My major sticking point with Vaccine requirements(I am vaccinated) is that they ignore natural immunity of those that have previously had Covid. I will not get into the argument over how long natural immunity vs vaccines and how long either is effective but there is enough research out there that would make a valid case for naturally acquired immunity should be included in any vaccine mandates. Just yesterday there was a major protest in NYC over vaccine mandates so it will be interesting to see how all this plays out with vaccine requirements for other sectors of travel industry when it comes to domestic travel. It seems the airline lobbyists would object to vaccine requirements to fly domestically but that matter is certainly up for debate and will play out in due time. And how willing passengers will submit to covid tests and have to pay for out of pocket. I have flown at least 20 times domestically since pandemic and that would be a hard sell to shell out covid testing costs each time vs a cruise. 

    and you are right, Royal has to follow the protocols of the countries they visit and that creates the dilemma. It will be interesting to watch to see if FL follows through with fines for cruise lines and the certain court battles that will follow.

    Strange times indeed and will be fascinating to watch to see how all this plays out 

  7. My wife works at a Nursing home which employs Registered Nurses. They have the same brand rapid tests that Royal is currently selling on the royal website its states below the requirements. SO my question are:

    1. If we have an RN at the Nursing Home perform the tests on my family, does that meet requirements below.

    2. I have heard varying stories about what is an acceptable results document and that are DOB needs to be included but thats not stated below. 

    3. If points 1 & 2 are valid, then all the RN would need to do is just type up a results document as outlined below? Would it raise a red flag because tests were administered at Nursing Home?

     

     

    The test must be supervised by a health professional, such as a doctor, pharmacy technician, public health worker, or telehealth professional. Telehealth testing at home is only accepted for vaccinated guests, and only when it is conducted under live video supervision. Learn more about acceptable telehealth tests including our home test kit.

    You must receive a valid results document from your test provider that includes provider name, your name, the date the test was taken, type of test, and your negative result. This can be a printed document, email, or telehealth app notification. Handwritten doctor’s notes will not be accepted.

     

  8. Yes, I dont blame you. We live in a weird time where we can pack stadiums full of people crammed together unmasked and uncertain of vaccination status but somehow masking on a cruise ship is a thing regardless of vaccination status BUT somehow its ok to have a dining room full of unmasked people for 2 hours while dining. But that causes less Covid risk than say if you walked unmasked in the spacious promenade????? Walked down the hallway on your floor to your room? 

    I know Royal feels compelled to follow the CDC when sailing from Florida but I wish they would ignore the CDC from Florida as they are not bound to follow them. BUT Royal will ignore Florida's vaccination laws and are willing to see how the penalties play out down the line. 

    Strange times indeed....

  9. 1 hour ago, smokeybandit said:

    Doesn't look like the CDC changed anything. They didn't change the testing windows or criteria.

     

    I want to know what difference another 75 days makes, other than to slap the face of the cruise lines one more time during the holiday season.

    0 sense but at least the CDC director gave her blessing for parents to take their kids trick or treating this year.. how gracious of her. What a benevolent technocratic overlord we have! 

    Florida has one of the lowest case records in the US now, I wish Florida sailings would just ignore the CDC and CSO. Just wonder how this will affect cancellations as I’m sure many thought the CSO would truly expire on Oct 31 and will now not sail 

  10. It does say:

    "As of July 23, 2021, the CSO and accompanying measures, such as technical instructions, are nonbinding recommendations for cruise ships arriving in, located within, or departing from a port in Florida. CDC is continuing to operate the CSO as a voluntary program for such ships that choose to follow the CSO measures voluntarily."

    So the cruise lines out of Florida could ignore though going against CDC unfortunately may not be the best business move since at least they are sailing again

     

  11. https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/covid19-cruiseships.html

     

    October 25, 2021 Update

    CDC extended the Framework for Conditional Sailing Order (CSO) with minor modifications. The CDC Director signed the Temporary Extension & Modification of the CSO on October 25, 2021; it is effective upon expiration of the current CSO on November 1, 2021.

    The Temporary Extension & Modification of the CSO shall remain in effect until the earliest of

    • The expiration of the Secretary of Health and Human Services’ declaration that COVID-19 constitutes a public health emergency;
    • The CDC Director rescinds or modifies the order based on specific public health or other considerations; or
    • January 15, 2022 at 12:01 am EDT.

    After the expiration of the Temporary Extension & Modification of the CSO, CDC intends to transition to a voluntary program, in coordination with cruise ship operators and other stakeholders, to assist the cruise ship industry to detect, mitigate, and control the spread of COVID-19 onboard cruise ships.

    As of July 23, 2021, the CSO and accompanying measures, such as technical instructions, are nonbinding recommendations for cruise ships arriving in, located within, or departing from a port in Florida. CDC is continuing to operate the CSO as a voluntary program for such ships that choose to follow the CSO measures voluntarily.

     

    https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/pdf/CDC-CSO-Extension-10-25-21-p.pdf

  12. 28 minutes ago, Canadian-Cruiser said:

    The crew are the ones who will bear the brunt of whatever happens with masks down the road as we can expect that in the event the masks on board become optional for the guests, the crew will have to continue donning them in all indoor venues regardless. As @MrMarc and @JeffB said, we ought to think about how they factor into all this. Sure as guests I'm sure all of us would LOVE to not be able to donne the masks once they become optional but crew have no such choice and it remains to be seen how willing they will be to be engaging with guests. Granted I'm sure we can agree that the cleaner's and cabin attendants have the most difficult jobs as opposed to some entertainment person or guest services and most will not want to be quarantined due to an inadvertent exposure.

    As North Americans we tend to think more about our vacation experiences with the focus on us more than them and how inconvenient things are or why is this done this way or that way @LizzyBee23 especially if ones hails from the cruise capital of the world which tends to be a bit of a different mindset but at the end of the day its he crew who will essentially be the folks who will have to deal with whatever comes their way. These are low wage workers who only want to support their families and really don't want to have to be quarantined and lose wages by doing so. I know personally I will continue to be respectful of them as opposed to citing theatre when I'm in their presence and I'm sure the crew deeply appreciated the guests having their best interests in mind for something as simple as a covering. Think of the crew and be kind. 

    Point taken

    However, you still haven't addressed the question of the dining room attendants and crew that work in unvaccinated indoor areas of the ship where passengers are not masked currently and how that would differ moving forward. I wont get in trouble again but then there is the whole question of the efficacy of cloth masks and if they would truly protect the crew. One would think that masks will not be a requirement forever on cruise ships as the pandemic wanes. I will not mention theater in front of the crew but I do recognize that some protocols in place do not stop the spread of covid (EX: Crew filling your soda cup at Freestyle machine). However, I am choosing to sail during a pandemic and agree to the protocols. Just as crew have chosen to work on a cruise ship and assume the inherent risks of doing so

    I think the best protection for the crew is to get vaccinated and as other people have mentioned, the crew skews younger where their risks from serious outcome should be minimized especially being vaccinated. 

    There is no way to keep Covid cases from happening on cruise ships. All they can do is effective protocols that have proven to slow the spread. 

    As cruise ship customers, we do have a choice to spend our money on sailings during the pandemic with the listed protocols. It is a reasonable expectation that Royal will provide protection for their crews as Royal does not want to lose revenue. Also, it is up to the personal responsibility of the crew to protect themselves as well by being vaccinated and not work a cruise ship if they have medical conditions that would make them more susceptible to Covid. My cruise dollars during this pandemic help support the crew as well as me choosing to sail during a pandemic. 

    I sail in November and I will follow all safety protocols that Royal has set.  

  13. 4 minutes ago, Canadian-Cruiser said:

    I'd think they'd be very apprehensive if for some reason the guests didn't have masks and they were masked because as we all know, their on contract and a positive test due to an inadvertent interaction(s) with unmasked but fully vaccinated passengers could basically mean a lost of income or being sent home to their overseas countries without being able to get income. So for this reason as the crew is on board for six months or more and having their guests unmasked would be quite an apprehensive feeling for them and they'd probably not want to engage as much with unmasked guests. So while everyone here cites masks and so on, THINK about the crew and those crew members aka cabin attendants and cleaners from lower income countries. They do not have the same political overlay and all they want to do is make an income to remit to Indonesia, India or Phillipines.

     

    What should be done about areas of the ship that are designated as fully vaccinated areas? 

    1. Do you think crews in those areas feel apprehensive?

    2. Do you think Royal should go with 100% masking on the ship regardless of vaccination status of guests?

    How about dining room staff where guests regardless of vaccination status are all unmasked while dining

    1. Do you think the dining room staff feel apprehensive?

    And cabin attendants. Masks are not required in cabins. We know Covid is spread through aerosols. 

    1. Do cabin attendants feel apprehensive when they enter a cabin right after a guest leaves that was unmasked where aerosols are still lingering in the air?

     

  14. On a related note of child documentation. My step daughter is 13 and naturally has different last name than her mother does now. My sailing in Nov stops at St Thomas, ST Martin and Cococay. Is it necessary for us to carry a signed consent to travel form from her Father that has been notarized

    Does anyone have any experience with this and if that would be an issue at the ports listed above?

     

  15. 21 minutes ago, Dulis said:

    Hoping to resurrect this for a minute...  I've read that it's just the men/boys that have to remove their rash guards on the Perfect Day slides.  Can anyone confirm if this is true?  My daughter is at that age where it's non-negotiable wearing a shirt in the pool.  I remember those days, myself.  I don't think she would use any of the slides if she had to wear a traditional bathing suit.  😕 

    I have watched some recent youtube vloggers that were in Coco Cay recently and he was wearing rash guard and they let him keep it on while on the slide BUT mentioned in a previous visit before the shutdown that he had to remove it. Others can comment on their experience but it looks like you MAY be able to wear rash guard on slides

  16. 1 hour ago, Canadian-Cruiser said:

    Well in China they are aiming for covid zero and that's where royal caribbean wants to start once again. Will be interesting to see how RCG does in a country that adopts covid zero policies. CHina is a huge market for cruising and its unfortunate many Americans generally do not want to cruise from there and prefer constant bahamas cruises or constant Caribbean cruises week after week instead of considering say VIKING or Silversea or an enrichment luxury line in the Galapagos aka A small ship niche @cruisellama

    @twangster @smokeybandit @JimD56 or even the upcoming 274 day world cruise which most Caribbean frequent cruisers who can afford numerous B2B's ; how they will cope in parts of the world where some things are referred to as 'theatre' so I guess it makes sense these cruisers only stick close to the cruise capital, and do caribbean week after week or month after month without being exposed to a global perspective in Oceania, Asia or China (not the vast majority of normal family cruisers who can only cruise once a year mot every month) and often times frequent caribbean cruisers rather than say having a world view on cruising and masks and so on have this idea of politics and CDC. No one refers to it as theatre in Canada either. @Vancity Cruiser @KWong 

    Singapore is a huge cruise market too. Call it theatre what have you folks @UNCFanatik @MrMarc @JeffBbut in Singapore cruises have gone gone without a hitch and Singapore now mandates mask wearing OUTDOORS In society. Everyone complies unlike in Western world where everyone thinks CDC is political, if one lives in Asia old home @WAAAYTOOO for a year they can see many benefits without politicising everything that doesn't fit their narratives. Point being is cruise lines have done as well in Singapore and hong Kong and no one debates or politicians or calls things theatre, people just do and be content and are happy things are opening. Everyone is so used to masks even outdoors on the ship. Hard to find any non compliance unlike say I dunno the cruise capital of the world -___-?

    SIngapore rise in Covid Cases. SO excuse me if I dont think what Singapore is doing is effective in stopping covid cases

     

    sing.png

  17. 1 hour ago, CruiseGus said:

    Sorry but i have to call you some of the BS you spew

    1. early on NO one know how this spread, so closing Playgrounds was a wise preemptive strategy.  They also closed all schools at the same time. Later we actual found out how it spread.

    2. closing beaches made sense when without a vaccine we saw "College Age Kids" congregate with no social distancing and no mask wearing.

    3 Actually the now common Plexiglass barriers seen at cashiers and banks do provide a block for the aerosol causing it to move in a different direction.  Total blockage NO but disbursal so it is not as concentrated YES

    4. Ok  this one was wild but depending on your distance not a bad Idea.  Remember masks don't protect me the protect others.  How many scientific study using blue/black lighting to follow the aerosol do you have to see to know this is true.  A compete blockage NO, but effective in decreasing the viral load YES

     

    Japan, up lets bring people in from all over the world, tested or not and see we can prevent a rise in cases, Not unexpected.

    Australia I will only say this.  "Cases and deaths per million
    As of 8 September, Australia had recorded around 29 deaths per million people, a rate nearly four times lower than the global average of 114, according to the University of Oxford-backed ourworldindata.org website.

     

    About the only VALID point you make is " Zero Covid is a fantasy "

     

    ENJOY YOUR UPCOMING CRUISE

    The BS I spew? Interesting. Again you have proven my case

    1. Closing playgrounds did not prevent spread of covid. There is no data that you can present that suggest it did

    2. Closing beaches, even the ones that did not attract spring, did not prevent covid spread. Look up the transmission rate of chance of outdoor spread. Experts were wrong on this one

    3. Plexiglass...   https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/19/well/live/coronavirus-restaurants-classrooms-salons.html

    4. See point #2. Outdoor spread not primary driver of covid spread and chances are very low to spread outdoors. Riding a bike or joking outdoors while wearing masks does not prevent spread of covid. 

    Japan peaked with Covid cases at the END of August. Olympics ended on august 8 AND no spectators were not allowed

    also look at the rise of covid cases in singapore...another Asian country with high mask compliance and the rise of covid cases in October. 

    Florida and Louisiana and Florida had same rise in covid cases late summer with LA with mask mandates and FL not having mask mandates. Results were the same. Maybe, NPIs do not work against raspatory virus as they will run their course. The best we can do is vaccination and stop the Covid theater  

     

    Singapore rise in Covid:

     

     

    sing.png

  18. 7 minutes ago, MrMarc said:

    The response to that is so obvious, but please, let's just stop it.  We, and a lot of other people, disagree with each other.

    You are the one urging us all the follow the same public health experts that rolled out these policies from the start that did nothing to stop the spread but you refuse to see why people question "experts". Just this past week the experts who told people with heart issues to take aspirin all these years now have said that they should stop in some cases. So excuse me to believe there is such a thing as "settled science"

     

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