mid-sized ships

[cmcclelland]

Does anyone besides me wish that Royal would build some new mid-sized ships?  Even with periodic upgrades these older ships will be fazed out ... it would be sad to only have the Oasis & Quantum classes in the fleet

[Guest toodle68]

We love the size of the Freedom class and even enjoy Majesty for short cruises. There does not appear to be any investment in building the smaller ships for the budget lines. We have looked at the other cruise lines but the cost is at least double and sometimes more. Fortunately, it will be a long time before RC only has the monster ships.

[monctonguy]

Agreed...but these medium size ships do not appeal to new cruisers or millennials......and that is the target market...Mega ships with mega stuff to do that cost mega bucks.......

[Boston Babe]

I also preferred Mid size ships. There is certainly a market for them (look at Celebrity) and that market is probably older than the ones that enjoy the mega ships as their is much more to do if they have children regardless of age. (I think I"m in the "older" category now, but my brain still says I'm 25! ) LOL

[coneyraven]

Also, and you would think this would make economic sense ...... Not every port can accommodate the larger ships, so, wouldn't it make sense to have smaller ones to increase the number of destinations and embarkation points?  I love that New Orleans is back in the picture, but I was thinking of Charleston, SC as a good midway point between Florida and the Mid-Atlantic...... We already go there as a destination, so perhaps we can build on that.

[FloridaCruiseGirl1210]

What do ya'll classify as a mid-size ship? Like what class? Would Voyager class (Mariner, Adventure, etc.) be considered mid-size?

[coneyraven]

2 minutes ago, FloridaCruiseGirl1210 said:

What do ya'll classify as a mid-size ship? Like what class? Would Voyager class (Mariner, Adventure, etc.) be considered mid-size?

Good Question ..... My brain classified mid-size as Vision or Radiance Class with Sovereign & Empress being small

[tiny260]

For Royal, mid-size would be Voyager class, not sure about other cruise lines. Even though Voyager is quite a bit larger than Radiance, from the overall fleet it is right in the middle.

[DunkelBierJay]

I lean toward the medium to smaller ships myself, but understand the economics don't work out for new builds when retrofitting an existing ship seems so much more economical when almost every sailing is virtually sold out, and when the huge ships are selling out as well. I think the market has to change pretty substantially for us to see mid-size ships being built for RC any time soon. They are squeezing their ROI out of Majesty and Empress,, so I think the same will hold true for Vision, Radiance and Voyager Class ships when they get to the same age.

[Matt]

Royal Caribbean does build medium sized ships....they're on Celebrity Cruises

[Orange Crush]

30 minutes ago, Matt said:

Royal Caribbean does build medium sized ships....they're on Celebrity Cruises

They could even transfer over a Celebrity ship if they really wanted, but I don't see that happening until they start seeing empty cabins on a bigger ship's run.  Seems like the medium ship experience is going to cost Celebrity money for the foreseeable future.  But to be fair, X doesn't always cost more than a comparable itinerary on Royal, especially when you figure in sales and perks that X seems more generous with.

[cmcclelland]

3 hours ago, monctonguy said:

Agreed...but these medium size ships do not appeal to new cruisers or millennials......and that is the target market...Mega ships with mega stuff to do that cost mega bucks.......

sad, but true 

[cmcclelland]

2 hours ago, coneyraven said:

Also, and you would think this would make economic sense ...... Not every port can accommodate the larger ships, so, wouldn't it make sense to have smaller ones to increase the number of destinations and embarkation points?  I love that New Orleans is back in the picture, but I was thinking of Charleston, SC as a good midway point between Florida and the Mid-Atlantic...... We already go there as a destination, so perhaps we can build on that.

indeed, as to Charleston, SC - we live 2 hours south - so would definitely sail from there - Grandeur does come in as a day stop;  we cannot bring ourselves to try Carnavel - haha

[cmcclelland]

2 hours ago, Boston Babe said:

I also preferred Mid size ships. There is certainly a market for them (look at Celebrity) and that market is probably older than the ones that enjoy the mega ships as their is much more to do if they have children regardless of age. (I think I"m in the "older" category now, but my brain still says I'm 25! ) LOL

someday we will have to try Celebrity - likely when we no longer feel like driving 5 hrs to FL & resign ourselves to packing light & flying

[twangster]

Royal is investing in their mid-size ships bringing new Oasis like features to them.  

https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/2018/04/30/royal-caribbean-releases-royal-amplified-fleet-upgrade-schedule

Freedom and Voyager class. 

With these modernizations there is plenty to chose from across the fleet. 

 

[tiny260]

If I remember correctly, when I first started cursing Royal (2000), I switched over so that I could cruise on "The biggest cruise ship in the world""Voyager", I had previously been on the NCL Seaward, so they may be Mid sized now but they were not always...

[Orange Crush]

I am interested in checking out a Voyager or Freedom.  So far, I've only sailed Sovereign class & Oasis class which is almost as extreme as you can get.  After the Enchantment, I'd like to try out the Mariner once she's running 3 and 4 nighters out of Canaveral. 

[Boston Babe]

2 hours ago, Orange Crush said:

But to be fair, X doesn't always cost more than a comparable itinerary on Royal, especially when you figure in sales and perks that X seems more generous with.

Which is why I'm booked on 4 Celebrity sailings and only 2 RC at the moment. Dollar for Dollar, Celebrity was less money with the 4 perks. But then again, I like their size ships and the demographic of their customers so it's a bit different for me. Who knows, if I do book Oasis I may fall in love and say what have I been missing! LOL

[monctonguy]

1 hour ago, twangster said:

Royal is investing in their mid-size ships bringing new Oasis like features to them.  

https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/2018/04/30/royal-caribbean-releases-royal-amplified-fleet-upgrade-schedule

Freedom and Voyager class. 

With these modernizations there is plenty to chose from across the fleet. 

 

I don't think people who like and enjoy the midsize ships like or want or care about adding all these bells and whistles...or at least that's the impression that I get.

 

People that like and enjoy them..like and enjoy them for what they currently are like. Not looking to cram more stuff to do and pay for on the smaller ships.

 

Or am I way off course here??

[DunkelBierJay]

1 hour ago, tiny260 said:

If I remember correctly, when I first started cursing Royal (2000), I switched over so that I could cruise on "The biggest cruise ship in the world""Voyager", I had previously been on the NCL Seaward, so they may be Mid sized now but they were not always...

I started cursing long before 2000....

[Boston Babe]

35 minutes ago, monctonguy said:

I don't think people who like and enjoy the midsize ships like or want or care about adding all these bells and whistles...or at least that's the impression that I get.

 

Honestly I think you hit the nail on the head. It really boils down to personal preference.  While my friend @Lovetocruise2002 loves her larger ships, she's young and has children that accompany her and there is so much to do for everyone and be happy.  Hubby and I  are at the point where you want less children (please not haters, we love children, he taught for 30 years!), but casino, a few drinks and relax and that's about it.  So I think you are right. We don't need the bells and whistles.

[tiny260]

19 minutes ago, DunkelBierJay said:

I started cursing long before 2000....

So did I, 2000 is when I started cruising with Royal

[Lovetocruise2002]

41 minutes ago, Boston Babe said:

Honestly I think you hit the nail on the head. It really boils down to personal preference.  While my friend @Lovetocruise2002 loves her larger ships, she's young and has children that accompany her and there is so much to do for everyone and be happy.  Hubby and I  are at the point where you want less children (please not haters, we love children, he taught for 30 years!), but casino, a few drinks and relax and that's about it.  So I think you are right. We don't need the bells and whistles.

That is exactly it @Boston Babe.  I love the the OA class ships because of all the variety.  Even without my kids, I still love the OA class because I myself like the variety.  There really is something for everyone on those ships.  And I get the part about wanting less children.  When I'm on vacation, I want no where near them either because I see kids every day.  But the beauty of OA class is that there are so many places to go to get away.

[Orange Crush]

1 hour ago, monctonguy said:

I don't think people who like and enjoy the midsize ships like or want or care about adding all these bells and whistles...or at least that's the impression that I get.

 

People that like and enjoy them..like and enjoy them for what they currently are like. Not looking to cram more stuff to do and pay for on the smaller ships.

 

Or am I way off course here??

It's a mixed bag for me.  They should totally change up venues and activities to keep things fresh.  I don't want to repeat sailing a ship or itinerary years later and have everything be identical again.  But I also don't want half the public areas on the ship behind a velvet rope and an upcharge when they weren't before . . . which unfortunately has seemed like the direction they're going.

[twangster]

1 hour ago, monctonguy said:

I don't think people who like and enjoy the midsize ships like or want or care about adding all these bells and whistles...or at least that's the impression that I get.

People that like and enjoy them..like and enjoy them for what they currently are like. Not looking to cram more stuff to do and pay for on the smaller ships.

Or am I way off course here??

I must have missed something.  Why the desire for Royal to build new mid-size ships if not to enjoy newer amenities?   

[twangster]

19 hours ago, cmcclelland said:

... it would be sad to only have the Oasis & Quantum classes in the fleet

The classes before Oasis and Quantum class out number those in OA and Quantum class, even if you include the new ships forecast to be built through 2021.  I think it's very premature to predict all Freedom, Radiance and Voyager class being removed from the fleet. 

OA Class 4

Quantum Class 3

Freedom Class 3

Radiance Class 4

Voyager Class 5

[Boston Babe]

36 minutes ago, Lovetocruise2002 said:

But the beauty of OA class is that there are so many places to go to get away.

Ok, ok I will seek the OA when I  get back! LOL- I still think I'd like Freedom better! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Orange Crush]

13 minutes ago, twangster said:

I must have missed something.  Why the desire for Royal to build new mid-size ships if not to enjoy newer amenities?   

I think it just stems from a perceived lack of interest from Royal in building new ships smaller than a Quantum.  It won't happen for a while, but eventually the older gals will age out of the fleet and the average gross tonnage and number of berths per ship marches ever upward.

[tiny260]

20 minutes ago, twangster said:

I must have missed something.  Why the desire for Royal to build new mid-size ships if not to enjoy newer amenities?   

I'm good with the re-fits, bring on more O and Q class, I can't wait to see the new Icon class and/or ship which ever is the correct term, because until I can cruise more than the twice a year that I do now, or retire, or win the lottery, or become Super Mario ( @twangster ), I won't be able to keep up with the new builds and Re-fits anyway, I'm going to miss out on something...

[twangster]

Just now, Orange Crush said:

I think it just stems from a perceived lack of interest from Royal in building new ships smaller than a Quantum.  It won't happen for a while, but eventually the older gals will age out of the fleet and the average gross tonnage and number of berths per ship marches ever upward.

Larger ships have a lower operating cost model on a per passenger basis.  I can't say I blame them.  It's actually a pretty decent strategy when the larger picture with Celebrity is considered.

The only lines building new mid size ships are the ultra luxury lines where the target market dictates a lower guest count. 

[monctonguy]

It wasn't about new...it was about the size.......or maybe we are both wrong.

 

But if they wanted new ships and newer amenities, there are lots of them and that is all Royal is building. Hence the reason people stating they wish that Royal would build mid size ships as well. Don't think it was about new ships for the same of  newer amenities.

 

 

[tiny260]

I think then, as others have said, that maybe Celebrity is the way to go, all of their ships are a little smaller than the Voyager class, most if not all are newer and they have similar amenities. As @Boston Babe says, when you figure in everything that is included with a Celebrity cruise, the price is slightly higher, but resonable.

I probably would have already taken a Celebrity cruise except I have not found a date/Itinerary that fits my restricted schedule

 

 

[Orange Crush]

36 minutes ago, twangster said:

Larger ships have a lower operating cost model on a per passenger basis.  I can't say I blame them.  It's actually a pretty decent strategy when the larger picture with Celebrity is considered.

Totally agree.  As long as the ships continue to sail full, there's no incentive to build anything smaller.  It makes a whooooole lot of sense to bring the Mariner in to the Majesty's old route out of Canaveral, and we're going to see similar shuffles with smaller ships sticking to routes that wouldn't sail full on something bigger or that the ports can't handle.

[WAAAYTOOO]

1 hour ago, twangster said:

The classes before Oasis and Quantum class out number those in OA and Quantum class, even if you include the new ships forecast to be built through 2021.  I think it's very premature to predict all Freedom, Radiance and Voyager class being removed from the fleet. 

OA Class 4

Quantum Class 3

Freedom Class 3

Radiance Class 4

Voyager Class 5

Hey, Mr. twangbot, you missed the Vision class.  Your coding must ha slipped a 0 or a 1.

?

[tiny260]

He is one of the new Organic AI's, no more clunky 0 and 1's, it's all organic processors now...

Much faster throughput.

[FloridaCruiseGirl1210]

What is the pros and cons for both (I know they will change for each person). 

[twangster]

3 hours ago, WAAAYTOOO said:

Hey, Mr. twangbot, you missed the Vision class.  Your coding must ha slipped a 0 or a 1.

?

They are the only mid size ships in the fleet and well, lets face it, they will be the first to go when the right opportunity comes along.  You don't see them included in the AMPED program so let the speculation begin.  Since I projected into 2021 to include the future OA and Quantum class I left Vision class off on purpose.  Even with Vision, Soverign and Empress class counted out the rest of the non OA/Quantum class still out number them.  

[Lovetocruise2002]

4 hours ago, FloridaCruiseGirl1210 said:

What is the pros and cons for both (I know they will change for each person). 

What is the "both" that you are referring to? I got lost in the bot talk

If it is the mid size vs mega ships, @Matt just wrote a great blog post summarizing the differences:

https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/royal-caribbean-best-ship

Here's another link I found:

http://www.royalcaribbean.com/connect/finding-the-right-ship-for-you/

Like others have said, it really comes down to personal preference.

[Jason.H.]

I love freedom of the seas. Even if they built a new ship of that size I don't know how they could improve it. It's the perfect layout. I hate there is no stage area near the pool on Oasis class. Who wants to go sit in a stadium seat in the blazing sun at the ocean theater to watch the belly flop contest anyway?

[Lovetocruise2002]

2 minutes ago, Jason.H. said:

I love freedom of the seas. Even if they built a new ship of that size I don't know how they could improve it. It's the perfect layout. I hate there is no stage area near the pool on Oasis class. Who wants to go sit in a stadium seat in the blazing sun at the ocean theater to watch the belly flop contest anyway?

Another perfect example of how it comes down to personal tastes and how every cruiser is different.  

We love watching the Belly flop contest in the Aqua Theater!  We love how there's seats for everyone and it's not crowded and, because it is elevated, wherever you sit you can see and not have to look over heads.  Watched it on Anthem and missed the stadium seating a lot.  It really does come down to knowing your own style and tastes.