Are Royal's Phone Answerers Legally Required To Be TAs?

[Moby Dick]

That's it, a simple question!

[smokeybandit]

I have no idea but I doubt it since they're selling their own product, not someone else's.

[Moby Dick]

46 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

I have no idea but I doubt it since they're selling their own product, not someone else's.

Makes sense.  But, aren't they also selling airline reservations (Air2Sea, or what ever it's called)?  Or is that a specialized number and person you have to call?

[Spang1974]

Not here in the UK. However we have extra consumer rights when booking cruises in the UK, so maybe that makes up for their lack of expertise, LOL.

[HeWhoWaits]

8 hours ago, Suite Snob said:

Makes sense.  But, aren't they also selling airline reservations (Air2Sea, or what ever it's called)?  Or is that a specialized number and person you have to call?

Air2Sea is an entirely different organization. Those folks would indeed be TAs, albeit specializing in air arrangements.

[twangster]

The simple answer is no.

Legally there is no requirement for any one to be a travel agent who is employed or contracted to work in the travel industry. 

 

[Moby Dick]

12 minutes ago, twangster said:

The simple answer is no.

Legally there is no requirement for any one to be a travel agent who is employed or contracted to work in the travel industry. 

 

Ok, maybe "LEGALLY" was too strong a word.  But, to get into many of the travel industry's reservation systems, don't you have to have certain Certification No's that require X amount of hours of training, testing, and certification(s), maybe not by a state or government agency but by the industry?  That's not intended to be an argument, it is what it is, a question.  Many decades ago, I was a TA and to get into SABAR (I can't remember the exact acronym for it), at the time the generally used airline reservation system, you had to have a Certification No., or what ever they called it at the time.  

To be clear, I was a TA only for the purpose of getting cheaper tickets for myself and family.  I never sold anything.  I never traveled as much as I thought I would have, so I let it go.  

[twangster]

Now we are deviating from the original context.  "Are Royal's Phone Answerers Legally Required To Be TAs?"  removing the legal condition from the question...

A person who is hired to work in a contact center (phone answerer) for any company does not necessarily need to be industry certified to work as a contact center agent.  The company will likely establish policy and training requirements that an individual should meet before they begin to interact with customers.  That's just basic business sense, but those are defined within the company.  In the context of Royal Caribbean a contact center agent can access Royal's reservation systems and not be certified by a 3rd party to do so.  

Royal doesn't use SABRE, Royal uses its own in-house reservation system so no 3rd party can impose requirements for accessing their system.  Unlike legacy airlines that tended to outsource their booking and reservation platforms, cruise lines mostly have their own in-house platforms.

 

[HeWhoWaits]

29 minutes ago, twangster said:

Royal doesn't use SABRE, Royal uses its own in-house reservation system

In the context of the original example, though, Air2Sea was mentioned. The agents at Air2Sea most definitely DO access SABRE to make the reservations, unless they are booking the same way that we would if we made an online booking directly with the airline or through a website like Expedia or Travelocity. That raises the question as to whether Air2Sea is an agency or a booking site with more restrictions than a traditional TA would have.

[Ray]

5 hours ago, Spang1974 said:

Not here in the UK. However we have extra consumer rights when booking cruises in the UK, so maybe that makes up for their lack of expertise, LOL.

You still get someone in the Philippines or India though! 

I have learnt if calling RC or BA avoid meal times in Asian countries as you get through quicker! 

[twangster]

15 minutes ago, HeWhoWaits said:

In the context of the original example, though, Air2Sea was mentioned. The agents at Air2Sea most definitely DO access SABRE to make the reservations, unless they are booking the same way that we would if we made an online booking directly with the airline or through a website like Expedia or Travelocity. That raises the question as to whether Air2Sea is an agency or a booking site with more restrictions than a traditional TA would have.

They may not have direct SABRE access.

I can make Air2Sea reservations through Royal Caribbean's website as a guest booked on a cruise.  You can too.  Anyone can.  We are not accessing the reservation platform for each airline.  We are not directly in the SABRE platform. 

The original post mentioned nothing about A2S.

[HeWhoWaits]

28 minutes ago, twangster said:

The original post mentioned nothing about A2S.

It was in the clarifying post by the OP.

 

12 hours ago, Suite Snob said:

Makes sense.  But, aren't they also selling airline reservations (Air2Sea, or what ever it's called)?  Or is that a specialized number and person you have to call?

 

29 minutes ago, twangster said:

I can make Air2Sea reservations through Royal Caribbean's website as a guest booked on a cruise.  You can too.  Anyone can.  We are not accessing the reservation platform for each airline.  We are not directly in the SABRE platform. 

So Air2Sea is just Royal's Expedia or Travelocity. 

[twangster]

I don't know the actual structure of the A2S department.  Is it outsourced?  Is it staffed by Royal employees trained specifically on air?  Do they have direct access into each airline platform?  How deep in each airline platform can they get?  I don't know.  

[smokeybandit]

16 minutes ago, HeWhoWaits said:

So Air2Sea is just Royal's Expedia or Travelocity. 

That's exactly what it is. 

[smokeybandit]

10 minutes ago, twangster said:

I don't know the actual structure of the A2S department.  Is it outsourced?  Is it staffed by Royal employees trained specifically on air?  Do they have direct access into each airline platform?  How deep in each airline platform can they get?  I don't know.  

The RC hotel search is a wrapper around Priceline so it wouldn't surprise me if their airline booking engine is just a wrapper around Priceline or Kayak or one  of the other companies under that Booking umbrella

[twangster]

A2S can be a little more than just a wrapper.  In some cases RCG is contracting with airlines to add specific flights for the purpose of getting cruisers on ships.  Both Celebrity and Royal have benefited from flights being added to specific gateways cities that the airlines were not offering before.  RCG committed to seats on these planes and sold them at lower prices through A2S compared to what a consumer could find on the airline's website directly.  It happened in the Bahamas, Barbados and in Europe for Apex cruises.  There may be other examples beyond these.  They also did it for Bermuda but then that restart itinerary was cancelled and with it the A2S flights they sold.  There was a wholesale agreement that involved A2S (or the Celebrity version) and the airlines.

One thing A2S can't do is predict or override an airline that cancels flights on short notice.

Not even the employees of that airline can manage the chaos created by the airline industry right now.  A2S isn't a magic fairy that can sprinkle pixie dust in the air and overcome the issues created by airlines in these current times.  Anyone who has that expectation has the wrong expectation. 

[smokeybandit]

Sure they have contracts and group rates that they can access, but I just meant their user interface to actually book probably is a 3rd party one

[Moby Dick]

4 hours ago, Suite Snob said:

Ok, maybe "LEGALLY" was too strong a word. 

3 hours ago, twangster said:

Now we are deviating from the original context.  "Are Royal's Phone Answerers Legally Required To Be TAs?"  removing the legal condition from the question...

 

Well yaaaa, I said so.  

So, reading over the posts in here I believe what I get out of it is that NO Royal's don't have to be Certified TAs from any industry certifying agencies, only their own training and possibly their own certification.  As far as air travel (A2S) is concerned, I'm still not sure/clear.

[TXcruzer]

4 hours ago, Suite Snob said:

Ok, maybe "LEGALLY" was too strong a word.  But, to get into many of the travel industry's reservation systems, don't you have to have certain Certification No's that require X amount of hours of training, testing, and certification(s), maybe not by a state or government agency but by the industry?  That's not intended to be an argument, it is what it is, a question.  Many decades ago, I was a TA and to get into SABAR (I can't remember the exact acronym for it), at the time the generally used airline reservation system, you had to have a Certification No., or what ever they called it at the time.  

To be clear, I was a TA only for the purpose of getting cheaper tickets for myself and family.  I never sold anything.  I never traveled as much as I thought I would have, so I let it go.  

I don't think there are any requirements at all, just call yourself "Suite Snob Agency", and have a tax ID number in that name. (in CA, FL, WA, and HI there is a state fee for a Seller of Travel number, but no requirements other than the fee to be paid)

[Moby Dick]

13 minutes ago, TXcruzer said:

I don't think there are any requirements at all, just call yourself "Suite Snob Agency", and have a tax ID number in that name. (in CA, FL, WA, and HI there is a state fee for a Seller of Travel number, but no requirements other than the fee to be paid)

Yes, an upfront answer, easy to understand, I like it.  

Hey, "Suite Snob Agency", that has a great ring to it. 

[smokeybandit]

8 minutes ago, Suite Snob said:

Yes, an upfront answer, easy to understand, I like it.  

Hey, "Suite Snob Agency", that has a great ring to it. 

There's already one SSA and we all know we don't need another!

[Moby Dick]

8 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

There's already one SSA and we all know we don't need another!

I'm guessing your use of "A" is different than mine!

[DunkelBierJay]

TAs are independent contractors who either hold a CLIA number and other industry certifications or work for an agency (I think almost all are 1099 contractors with them) and have been trained. Customer Service reps with Royal are trained by the cruise line and can't book outside their company's system.

[Sharla]

I can't really answer your exact question, but no you don't need any type of certification to be a TA. Most do work under a host agency with a CLIA/IATA number. Some TAs are paid a salary, but I don't know how that works as they are employees and not ICs. Royal's phone reps are most definitely salaried employees. They are call center employees and don't necessarily work for Royal Caribbean either.

Some of us get more training/certifications to learn more and look more professional, but it's not a legal thing to do. 

[Moby Dick]

50 minutes ago, Sharla said:

I can't really answer your exact question, but no you don't need any type of certification to be a TA. Most do work under a host agency with a CLIA/IATA number. Some TAs are paid a salary, but I don't know how that works as they are employees and not ICs. Royal's phone reps are most definitely salaried employees. They are call center employees and don't necessarily work for Royal Caribbean either.

Some of us get more training/certifications to learn more and look more professional, but it's not a legal thing to do. 

Nice/good answer.  But, it creates another question.  In order for me, independently, for example, to access an industry reservation system, whatever it may be, or call Royal and try to make a reservation as a TA, don't I have to have some kind of a Certification No. to access the reservation system, either by computer or by calling.  Again, as an independent TA, not working for an agency of any kind.  I remember when I was a faux TA (my term), I had to sign into the reservation system (Sabre, or whatever), I had to put in my Certification No., or whatever it was.  That was a long time ago, I think like the late 1900s or very early 2000s.  

[Sharla]

20 hours ago, Suite Snob said:

Nice/good answer.  But, it creates another question.  In order for me, independently, for example, to access an industry reservation system, whatever it may be, or call Royal and try to make a reservation as a TA, don't I have to have some kind of a Certification No. to access the reservation system, either by computer or by calling.  Again, as an independent TA, not working for an agency of any kind.  I remember when I was a faux TA (my term), I had to sign into the reservation system (Sabre, or whatever), I had to put in my Certification No., or whatever it was.  That was a long time ago, I think like the late 1900s or very early 2000s.  

I do have to identify myself by agency name/phone number and/or CLIA/IATA number. We can access CruisingPower (the Royal/Celebrity TA site) or through our consortia (like Sabre). I can't just go to royalcaribbean.com and book for someone and get credit/commission on it. 

[twangster]

21 hours ago, Suite Snob said:

Nice/good answer.  But, it creates another question.  In order for me, independently, for example, to access an industry reservation system, whatever it may be, or call Royal and try to make a reservation as a TA, don't I have to have some kind of a Certification No. to access the reservation system, either by computer or by calling.  Again, as an independent TA, not working for an agency of any kind.  I remember when I was a faux TA (my term), I had to sign into the reservation system (Sabre, or whatever), I had to put in my Certification No., or whatever it was.  That was a long time ago, I think like the late 1900s or very early 2000s.  

My understanding is that Royal partners with legitimate travel companies and allows them to resell their products.  I don't think Royal allows individuals to register as a travel provider and gain access to their systems.  I've never looked into what their expectations are for a travel company to become a registered travel agency that can resell their products. I suspect you'll find they are looking for bonide travel companies that intend to handle volumes of business, not a handful of bookings spread across a number of years like an individual would for their own needs only.  

As an individual you would need to find a host agency to work under as you seek to become a travel agent.  However most legitimate travel agencies are looking for agents who intend to make a profession as a true travel agent.  That's how they make their money.  There is no business value for a legitimate travel company to have an agent who just wants to manage their own travel arrangements but nothing beyond that.    

https://careertrend.com/how-to-become-a-disney-travel-agent-13642081.html

From that URL:

Warning

There are some companies that claim to be legitimate host agencies, but they are really "card mills." This means that they sell travel agent credentials to people who simply use them to try to get discounted travel. Legitimate travel vendors such as Royal Caribbean will not accept bookings from these companies. Choose your host agency carefully.

  

[smokeybandit]

9 minutes ago, twangster said:

From that URL:

Warning

So my certification from Matt Hochberg's Travel Agent and Driving School isn't valid?

[bobroo]

There are passengers who are TAs just to manage their cruises better. They have access to the cruising power website and buy their cruises at wholesale.

As mentioned, just about anyone can do this. A couple cautions: as we all know, Royal Caribbean is an IT derelict. This is also true for the training Royal offers new TAs to use their reservation system. 
And, before anyone gets the idea that they are calling Royal first thing tomorrow morning to let them know that you’d like to be recognized as a travel agency because you want to save money; you’ll soon find out how slim the margin is on a cruise and it is likely flat out not worth it. 

[Moby Dick]

17 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

So my certification from Matt Hochberg's Travel Agent and Driving School isn't valid?

Sure, if you purchase a cruise from Matt's Cruise Line and Message Parlor.

[Matt]

8 minutes ago, Suite Snob said:

Sure, if you purchase a cruise from Matt's Cruise Line and Message Parlor.

We validate parking!

[Moby Dick]

Hey, I do appreciate all the information here.  Good stuff.

However, after I posted my OP here, I though about it for a while and asked my wife (my primary brain) about our experience with being a faux TA and what we went through.

She remembers that we actualy went to classes (that, I do remember) after paying a few hundred bucks for the classes and books.  After that, we had to pay a small monthly fee to the company that sold us the  TA Classes.  And she thinks that that fee was to keep our access to the reservation systemS and use THEIR certification/certificate/passwords/whatevers to get into the reservation systems.  So, I guess my wife and I didn't actually have any certification (other than the worthless certificate of completion that the company gave us) from the actual travel companies.  We were using, for a fee, other peoples/companies validation numbers.  Should have talked to my wife first.  

[Sharla]

21 hours ago, twangster said:

This means that they sell travel agent credentials to people who simply use them to try to get discounted travel.

I don't understand why someone would become a TA just for discounts. There just aren't that many anymore. That's not to say they aren't out there but It's not just "free travel all the time"

[smokeybandit]

4 hours ago, Matt said:

We validate parking!

[Moby Dick]

2 hours ago, Sharla said:

I don't understand why someone would become a TA just for discounts. There just aren't that many anymore. That's not to say they aren't out there but It's not just "free travel all the time"

In our case, this is back in the late 1990s or early 2000s.  At that time we were flying out to Vegas & up to Indianapolis from Ft. Lauderdale, often.  We were suckered in to the TA "School" because of the availability of (damn, I just can't think of the name of them now) the people that purchase tickets in large, very large bulk and resell them to TAs at deep discounts.  I wish I could remember what they were called.  Also, other benefits/advantages.  If I ever get up the ambition to look for the training books, I'll post it.  The main reason we quit the faux TA crap is because my daughter went to work for an airline (ATA, I think you know the rest of the story with them), she was a troubleshooter for the reservation CSRs if they were having issues or didn't understand something in the Sabre system.  She loved that job.  Anyway, back when being an airline employee or a family member of an employee meant something, we traveled for free on ATA and affiliated airlines.  So, no need for the TA stuff.  Until the ATA owner decided to sell the company and the new company closed down the operation in Indianapolis.  The rest is history.  

Before quitting the faux TA stuff, we did get a lot of discounts (I guess it's debatable if it was worth it or not though) and inside information to upcoming tours and stuff.  But, I don't remember getting any travel for free because of being a faux TA.