UNCFanatik

Watching planes flying into the airport at Maho beach in St Martin is a unique experience. 
 

as mentioned… really nice beaches all over island. Also a couple of great overlooks you can go to 

as for St Thomas I never have been there. But I do plan on taking gondola to top of overlook and go to Magens. Beach 

I am also on the oasis of the sea thanksgiving week. Along with my wife, adult daughter and 13 year old step daughter 

Now that the government is saying that you need a covid booster shot after 8 months of your 2nd dose, how will that affect vaccinated status on cruise lines? 

Any guesses? Will current fully vaccinated people with cruises planned in the end of the year need to get a booster if its been 8 months since last dose before they will be considered fully vaccinated by the cruise lines?

18 minutes ago, MrMarc said:

No, it is because of inept people not getting vaccinated, wearing masks and social distancing.  Masks and social distancing are not theater, they reduce the spread of the virus.  The only disagreement is to what extent, and we really don't know.  Assume it is 10%(to pick a very low number)  on a cruise of 4000.  That's 400 people.  If you are saying it is not worth that, then I totally disagree.

Is this really your final answer you want to stick with? People not getting vaccinated are inept? You need to check vaccination stats of all people groups in this country and then realize how you sound. 

I would go so far to say that masks can be counter productive because they have given people a false sense of security and they dont practice social distancing or think they can be in a crowded indoor space and be protected when in reality that cloth mask allows in aerosolized particles or they are too "inept" to properly wear a mask over their eyes AND nose (we wont mention how you can get Covid through your eyes as well) especially now with the more transmissible Delta variant. Cloth Masks are theater. Social Distancing is not when one is unvaccinated. 

I would agree with your stance but then we would both be wrong. 

back to cruising. I understand why the Cruise Lines are requiring indoor masking right now even with the vaccinated. Optics and the CDC. But what is the logic in wearing a mask to the main dining room and then removing it for 2 hours with 100s of people in the dining room. Why even wear a mask to your table? 

32 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

But typical for the CDC, they didn't accompany that announcement with any research explaining why.

Cause they said so! Thats why! They dont need no stinkin data or valid studies. They are the all powerful CDC! If you question them you are a science denier! 

Heretic!

I would be more concerned about capacity than the buffet. Covid isn’t spread at self service buffets. Now, people are gross at buffets so there’s that reason… lol

13 minutes ago, PG Cruiser said:

I’m going the other way on this one.  The Asian in me has gotten used to wearing masks for every epidemic that has showed up in recent years—swine flu, avian flu, H1N1, SARS, etc. I’ll probably be wearing a mask for a while whenever in a public setting.  I’d respect those who don’t like to wear masks and I hope my choice to wear one is also respected.

I respect peoples choices. If you feel that you need to wear a mask for any reason, no disrespect from me and it wouldnt warrant a second look from me. But if you cut in line in front of me at the Windjammer, its on!!!!....lol

11 minutes ago, Matt said:

As you know, Royal ships aren't fully vaccinated, and neither is Carnival.

As for why, it's a combination of the delta variant concern generated by a lot of media coverage about it, CDC policy changes, and I really think cruise lines are not necessarily fighting the protocol. After all, Royal was requiring masks on ships for vaccinated on all ships except for Adventure (until just recently).

Yes, I understand the overblown fear climate we are in now. As stated, I am just hoping the cruise lines will drop mask use for vaccinated after the Delta variant wanes and definitely after the end of the current CSO on October 31st. 

19 minutes ago, spursfreak21 said:

I can tout personal responsibility all I want but no one has to listen to me. I don’t have any authority. 
If you get caught not wearing a seatbelt you get a ticket. The government doesn’t say “we’ll that’s your right”. 
Bottom line: the more people who get vaccinated the sooner we can say good riddance to masks. 

If I am personally responsible and have been vaccinated, why should I have to wear a mask? Why are masks required on fully vaccinated cruise ships now? All people are vaccinated on a ship but we cant say good riddance to masks? 

All because of an inept CDC

38 minutes ago, spursfreak21 said:

Because there’s steps that we all can take to help slow the spread that a lot of people aren’t doing. Mask up and get vaccinated the two biggest. The “personal responsibility “ line we hear Governors tout makes no sense. To use Matt’s car analogy that’s like removing the law that seatbelts are required and just letting everyone use their own “personal responsibility “ to use seatbelts. 
So I believe we can all do things to help stop the spread and put a end to this. But I’m not all for “anything goes” and those who don’t like that can stay home. 

It IS about personal responsibility though. I am confused when you say that people should get vaccinated and mask up and then you say when governors tout "personal responsibility" it makes no sense. You are advocating for personal responsibility by saying people should mask up and then its not OK when governors say it? 

And yet, there are people everyday that dont use seatbelts regardless of the law. 

The cruise lines making people wear masks is pure theater unless they moved to enforcing passengers to wear N95 masks. Especially requiring vaccinated guests wear masks. Guess what? people are still getting Covid on cruise ships even wearing masks. 

I hope, once the delta variant wanes, the Cruise Lines will drop the masking requirement. I would hate to see masking become a permanent thing on cruises. I am all for EFFECTIVE and SANE mitigation methods for ALL kind of illnesses on cruise ships (guess what?? Covid isnt the only contagious illness you can catch on a cruise ship!) but I am not for security/medical theater just to please the panic/fear stricken, unscientific CDC. 

Amazing to see how many people are in favor of discrimination. Someone has a 5 year old child and wants to fly to see a dying grandmother is out of luck. 
 

this would also eliminate 60% of a minority to fly in this country. 
 

Such a terrible idea and what DeSantis was attempting to stop in FL

When we get in a car, we don’t have control over others? Should we all stop driving cause others speed and are reckless and kill others even though we have done everything in our control to stay safe when driving? 
 

by the same token, I don’t have control over drunk drivers when I drive. Should we ban alcohol? 
 

should we suspend school during flu season? 
 

We could go on and on about things in our society that pose a risk to us that are beyond our control. We don’t live in a zero risk society and we shouldn’t set policy on a single issue esp with a virus with an over 99% survival rate. 
 

Everyone who is 12 and older has access to the vaccine now. People can do their own risk mitigation and that comes to cruising as well.

I’m vaccinated and have cruises planned for Nov and Dec. I understand the risk of cruising during these times. I don’t agree with every step Royal has taken or policies they have but I think they have done a great job with their protocols when a case of Covid is identified. I just hope some passengers don’t become victims of false positives. I think Carnival has fallen behind Royal in regards to his cases have been handled. People tend to forget there are other contagious illnesses that people board cruise ships with now and in the past. Some more harmful to children than Covid. 
 

59 minutes ago, Matt said:

I agree they can't stop the virus, but they can mitigate the spread and risks associated with it onboard their ships.

Cruise lines cannot just throw their hands up and let cases pile up onboard. Just like how car manufacturers didn't just say "cant stop car crashes, so we don't need to bother trying to make cars safer", cruise lines cannot stop doing what they need to ensure their business can continue to operate while assuring the public (and government regulators) ships can sail safely.

Oh I fully agree and never would I suggest cruise lines stop all mitigation methods but I would implore that they evaluate what is and isn’t effective vs this virus especially among the vaccinated passengers. 

Stop testing people with no symptoms. Just like they stopped testing people for H1N1 in 2009-2010 especially tests with high cycle rates and no lab cultures that will pick up dead virus particles. 

Vaccinated/Unvaccinated. there is ZERO way to get rid of Covid cases on a cruise ship or anywhere else in this world. As long as we keep seeing case counts decoupled from Deaths then we should get back to normal life and realize case counts mean little. If you are vaccinated there is a very low chance that IF you get Covid that it will turn into anything more than the common cold or flu. AND NO I am not saying Covid is like the flu. Can you imagine if a few years ago when they estimated 80k people died of the flu if we heard constantly about daily case rates? 

ZERO COVID is a fools errands. Covid is a seasonal virus. The Delta variant will wane soon just like it did in the UK and India. Get vaccinated. Eventually, I hope, people will regain their sanity and look at things in proper perspective.

I get Cruise Lines are in the spotlight and have to enforce masking just for the optics but cruise lines cannot stop the virus no matter what they have their guests do.  

Other CDC recommendations:

1. Dont eat raw dough

2. FDA recommends ground beef cooked to 155 degrees CDC says 160

3. No runny eggs. "Cook eggs until the yolks and whites are firm."

4. If you are a woman you shouldnt have more than 1 alcoholic drink a day, men get 2 alcoholic drinks a day. (so much for that drink package)

5. Make sure you are supervising your children so their pets dont lick their faces

6. Steaks should not be cooked to less then medium temp. 

7. Throw out food left unrefrigerated after 2 hours

8. No sushi. 

Should the cruise lines follow all the above CDC recommendations as well? 

What time does Thrill Waterpark on Coco Cay open?

A rise in case counts does not necessarily mean a rise in hospitalizations and deaths now. something to remember when you hear about a rise in case counts. The media often ignores that fact. Zero Covid should not be goal nor is it attainable. 

This is on CDC's twitter feed today. 

The cruise lines after July 18th should ignore the CDC. They would have 2 year olds in masks in all indoor spaces. The cruise lines shouldnt require anyone 2 and older to wear masks. 

Once upon a more rational time, this would be considered child abuse. 

34 minutes ago, dswallow said:

Nothing on medium.com should be considered trustworthy. Find another source, perhaps.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article
 

We did not find evidence that surgical-type face masks are effective in reducing laboratory-confirmed influenza transmission, either when worn by infected persons (source control) or by persons in the general community to reduce their susceptibility (Figure 2). However, as with hand hygiene, face masks might be able to reduce the transmission of other infections and therefore have value in an influenza pandemic when healthcare resources are stretched.
 

Evidence from RCTs of hand hygiene or face masks did not support a substantial effect on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza, and limited evidence was available on other environmental measures.

26 minutes ago, dswallow said:

Nothing on medium.com should be considered trustworthy. Find another source, perhaps.

Ok… let’s see the randomized control trials that show the effectiveness of masks..

let’s see the proof masks totally stopped the flu this year but couldn’t stop Covid. 
 

I know it’s easier to believe in the magic of a cloth mask to be effective against an aerosolized virus. 

14 minutes ago, dswallow said:

I think you're mischaracterizing the sequence of events and what was actually said, and in general what we later learned was behind some of the poor statements made up front. Mistakes can be made, as long as when identified they get corrected. At least some of the things that happened earlier were corrected. People seem to love to grasp at the whole mask thing as being unnecessary, often pointing to cases where someone wore a mask and was infected, and that's simply not true and a mischaracterization of the benefit. Masks, even improperly worn masks, or poorly made masks/masks of wrong materials, still  reduce potential for spread of COVID, and we most certainly have seen how that affects more common things like the spread of flu, which practically was non-existent this past season.

We do seem today to lack some concept of what level of spread/infection may be acceptable to have, and in such cases, where that spread is of just minor symptoms, to what extent that is acceptable as well. We will certainly never be quite 100% rid of this, especially with the behavior of those choosing to ignore guidance and vaccination recommendations. But where is there to be a line between an acceptable level of infection versus trying to stem the infection/spread as much as possible? And frankly where do we generally leave those choosing to go unprotected/unvaccinated out of some of those equations, too, since apparently as a society we currently are letting people do that?

I would suggest you read up on viral interference. Masks didn’t cause the flu to go away this year. Covid did. 
 

https://medium.com/illumination-curated/the-unexpected-case-of-the-disappearing-flu-64fd1fa5e909

11 minutes ago, MrMarc said:But once it became politicized, the science really has not mattered as much as it should have.  I am not here to say I am right or you are wrong.  Please don't get this whole thing deleted.

What science? Please tell me? 
 

we were told mask didn’t work

we were told mask not only work but the former CDC director told us mask were more effective than vaccines.

we were told Covid spread easily outdoors so we were told that playgrounds, parks, beaches, etc needed to be closed for our safety. 
 

we were told Covid could spread on surfaces so we were told to sanitize like crazy. 
 

we were told asymptomatic spread wasn’t a major driver until we were told it was. 
 

we were told and continue to be told that each new variant is THE killer variant

we were told at one time that the morbidity rate was up over 3%
 

Fauci told us to disagree with him was to disagree with science itself while Fauci flip flopped so many times 

scientists told us that when Texas dropped their mask mandates that Covid cases would explode and excessive death would follow

Lastly, we were told by the scientist that there was no way Covid escaped from a lab

So which science hasn’t mattered? 
 

again… we have a years worth of data now. We have to learn from the mistakes of politicized science and never let them happen again. 

1 hour ago, MrMarc said:

Unless someone else is getting upset, I think this is a good discussion regarding how the CSO could have been avoided or whether or not it should be affecting our cruising now, no one upset that I can see.

You understand that Covid was in the US in December 2019, don’t you? 
 

you keep saying we should have locked down earlier. But when would you have? And have you looked at the data from lockdowns across the globe? Lockdowns do not work. 
 

in the US, we cannot totally lockdown a free society. Essential workers still had to go to work. The government can’t keep printing money to sustain the kind of lockdowns you seem to be advocating. 
 

as far as medical “experts” go, they ignored years of established science in order to try the lockdown experiment which has caused more damage than Covid. And we will continue to experience the collateral damage of lockdowns for years to come. What we have done to our children in the US because of lockdowns is shameful. 
 

And because Covid happened in an election year, of course it was politicized. 
 

Unelected health bureaucrats are not to  establish national policy. Zero risk is not a viable national policy when it comes to viruses. Our elected officials failed us. Covid risk and mitigation is just one of 100s of considerations when considering national policy. The government in this case picked winners and losers during lockdowns which caused many small businesses to go under while large corporations thrived. Poverty is a major factor  in ones health. 
 

Your continued advocating of lockdowns totally ignore the data from around the world. They do not work. Locking down harder is not the answer. Protecting the vulnerable was the answer but yet we shoved Covid infected seniors back into nursing homes which killed more seniors. Mask mandates did zero good. See Japan now and tell me masks work. New Zealand and Australia, 2 island nations had some of the hardest multiple lockdowns but yet Covid still is spreading there. I’m sorry but data and science is not on your side 

Lastly, wasn’t the main argument against the CDC that the cruise lines said that the CDC was not following the science? 
 

if the cruise lines continue to require vaccinated passengers wear masks then they are the ones ignoring science. 

1 hour ago, Danielle OG said:

Honestly, I just don't see the big deal about wearing a mask some of the time on a cruise. Seems like a first world problem. You still get to go on a cruise! I'm sure a lot of people would be happy to go on a cruise, even with tons of restrictions. It's a vacation after all. Again, it's not all the time. Maybe then I would understand. Who wants to wear a mask sitting outside on the pool deck? If all I have to do is pop on a mask when I leave my room, and head to the main dining room, where I can remove it again, I don't really care. It is a minor inconvenience. 

It’s just a mask…

its just 2 weeks…

it’s just 15 days to slow the spread..

its just shutting down children’s playgrounds to protect them..

its just closing beaches…

its just a 5 year old wearing a mask all day in school…

its just having children at summer camps in extreme temps required to wear masks..

it’s just suspending elective surgeries at hospitals for a Covid surge that didn’t happen…

its just an increased rate in suicides among young people because of isolation…

I’m sorry but it is a big deal when the CDC and our government has been so wrong so often about Covid and Covid protocols/lockdowns over the last year

Hopefully we learn from the past and seriously evaluate the mitigation methods taken against Covid and not repeat these same mistakes moving forward and this includes the cruise lines and masking. After July 18 when the CSO is no longer enforceable, masks should not be required on cruise ships. Cause guess what, even with masks, Covid cases will happen. 

You mean like the masks that worked so well in Japan with a society that has a much higher mask compliance than the US? Japan, who is seeing a surge in Covid cases so much so that no spectators are now going to be allowed at olympics? 
 

The CDC just released their new school guidelines that are saying that unvaccinated children should wear masks. CDC continues to be a joke. 

There will always be new strains of viruses just look at seasonal flu. Covid is well in the way to being endemic. Mass testing needs to end just like they ended testing of H1N1 in 2009-2010. Caseademic at this point. 
 

The variants are now just more panic porn. The Delta variant is no more deadly than original despite what media pushes. 
 

I get that the US wants more people to get vaccinated but fear is not the way to accomplish it

Royal needs to drop masking because masking is just theater at this point and their customers are going to continue to cancel cruises if they continue these masking protocols