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Harmony? Alaska?


mattymay
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  • mattymay changed the title to Harmony? Alaska?

That just doesn't seem practical. It has to go the long way to get over to the Pacific, and there's too much uncertainty elsewhere in the Pacific for her to have a home port outside of the Alaska season. Nevermind the fact that they'll have to take a month-plus and bring her back the long way to the East Coast, as the test drop for Caribbean 2023 showed her in Miami.

Serenade has a 7-night sailing departing on 9/18/22.

Agree, Royal IT.

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45 minutes ago, twangster said:

September 2022 she is still in Port Canaveral.  She doesn't leave until November 2022.

I've frequently had Perfect Day show up in the cruise planner for Alaska.  It never was even a blink of a thought they were building Perfect Day Frozen Tundra Edition.  It was clearly an IT glitch.  

I don’t think Harmony has retractable funnels,only Oasis ,Allure and wonder have . 

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14 minutes ago, twangster said:

Okay.  Not sure I understand the point though. 

I don’t believe they would have a oasis class in Alaska but  If a oasis class went through the Suez Canal to got to the pacific, I believe it has to have retractable funnels? Is that correct?

 

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17 minutes ago, Chili said:

I don’t believe they would have a oasis class in Alaska but  If a oasis class went through the Suez Canal to got to the pacific, I believe it has to have retractable funnels? Is that correct?

 

Ah.  I'm not sure we can use wiki specs to determine if an Oasis class can use the Suez with funnels extended.  It's close enough that the Suez could have a variance process for exceptions or the stuff we read on the internet is just not accurate enough.  I'm not convinced the stacks on Harmony are fixed.  

There is a notched rail along the rear of the stacks and when viewed from above it has the appearance of something that might have been designed, at least at one time, to slide downwards.

47070316_ScreenShot2021-12-15at7_38_18PM.thumb.jpg.4bb199c821afbd7225f45974095ab49c.jpg

1347670773_ScreenShot2021-12-15at7_40_02PM.jpg.000ae7d21e936b89809644a3f5e92ca4.jpg

 

Ironically I've started a project of sorts to take close up pictures of the stacks on each Oasis class ship.   I was just on Harmony but had to leave the cruise early and didn't get pictures of her stacks so I found these on the internet.  

 

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To go through the Panama Canal the ship has to sail under the Bridge of the Americas. The clearance is 201′ and she is 236' high, so its a no go.

Where as Enchantment is about 11 stories high so if 1 story is about 10' , then she's only about 110' high and would sail under the bridge just fine.

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51 minutes ago, barjpoe said:

To go through the Panama Canal the ship has to sail under the Bridge of the Americas. The clearance is 201′ and she is 236' high, so its a no go.

Where as Enchantment is about 11 stories high so if 1 story is about 10' , then she's only about 110' high and would sail under the bridge just fine.

Height isn't the only issue for the Panama Canal.   Since and including Voyager class all Royal ships have ledges and protrusions above the waterline.  On Voyager and Freedom class its part of the deck 4 promenade deck we all walk around.  On Quantum class the lifeboat platforms extend beyond the profile of the ship.  On Oasis class the lifeboats themselves are not contained within the profile of the ship but they extend outward.  All of these protrusions and shelves would get ripped off the ship if they scraped along the side of a canal lock face. 

The new locks have a dimension of 55 feet IIRC that must be clear of any protrusions above the waterline.  The side of the ship must be flat and capable of scraping down the wall of a lock.  

When you consider NCL's Breakaway Plus class these are the largest cruise ships to have used the new locks.  They have flat sides.  The lifeboats are contained within the profile of the ship except for the first in this class and she has never used the Panama Canal.  She has lifeboats that hang out like Oasis.

In this rendering you can see the side of Encore is flat.  The lifeboats, barely visible, tuck into the profile of the ship.  

encore1.jpeg.eb6430e8b95d3f4e639ee8aef11147d1.jpeg

Bliss:

deANh3Q.jpg

If Encore or Bliss scrapes down the concrete face of a lock wall all that is damaged is the paint job.

Consider Ovation:

1905OV-43.jpg

Note that each lifeboat platform extends over the side of the ship.  If these protrusions scraped down a concrete face of a lock wall they could be severely damaged.  They aren't designed to bear the full force of the ship like the bumper that runs along the ship closer to the waterline.  

Consider Voyager & Freedom class.  Note the large "shelf" that hangs out from the side of the ship:

1052693374_VYClassProfileCanal.thumb.jpg.5eb9c881228fb9993d8a32d9e92f84f7.jpg

949064780_LibertyOverhangPanamaCanal.thumb.jpg.7041e16b1374fcd3ba1b183bdf28ae10.jpg

These would be damaged if they slid along a concrete wall.

Consequently I think there is more to a ship's ability to use a canal system beyond the basic dimensions of the ship.  You can't just say it's only X meters wide or Y meters tall therefore it fits.  

Even if the Bridge of the Americas disappeared overnight there are still some ships that can't use the Panama Canal.  

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46 minutes ago, mattymay said:

Maybe it is going to Alaska on the way to Australia? ... kidding 😁 

I realise it made no sense and was most likely an IT glitch, but looks like you guy have solved how to get an Oasis here in future. Forwarding to Gavin Smith.

 

You got some rumours going.  Enchantment has 2023 open for bookings in Alaska. I wonder if she comes down south?

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1 hour ago, mattymay said:

Maybe it is going to Alaska on the way to Australia? ... kidding 😁 

I realise it made no sense and was most likely an IT glitch, but looks like you guys have solved how to get an Oasis here in future. Forwarding to Gavin Smith.

 

Wonder was supposed to be in China so there is a way to get one or more OA class into the Pacific.  I mean worst case is the old school way around the horn.  

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37 minutes ago, twangster said:

Wonder was supposed to be in China so there is a way to get one or more OA class into the Pacific.  I mean worst case is the old school way around the horn.  

I wonder if they will bother trying to put an Oasis class in China in the future now. Try again with Oasis #6?

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1 hour ago, twangster said:

It's interesting (to me) they pulled Enchantment's Hawaii cruise from the site and deployment page, like it never existed.  

I can’t understand for the life of me why they would put a old small ship like enchantment in a big ticket destination like Alaska.

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5 hours ago, Chili said:

I can’t understand for the life of me why they would put a old small ship like enchantment in a big ticket destination like Alaska.

Like most deployment decisions it's about where they can make more money not only with a specific ship but overall. 

Alaska is a money maker.  Enchantment is a way to have the most berths ever while not over-saturating the market.    

Here's Why

They've got two newer ships in Quantum and Ovation.  Between the two over 8,000 berths.  

They've got Radiance doing what she does best, where she makes the most money year after year after year.  One way open jaw Alaska.  Another 2k+ berths.  Now we are over 10,000 berths in Alaska without including ship #4.

The market in Alaska is not infinite.  They can't keep adding berths and not reach a point they will oversaturate the market.  

So how do you squeak out just a little more from Alaska without going too far?  Another small ship but also a low risk ship.

In Alaska most people will recognize they are there for Alaska, the ship is not the destination, Alaska is the destination.  For those that demand to have the latest with tons to do they have two Q class in Alaska.  For those that want to get more into Alaska and don't care about the ship, the fourth ship that goes to Alaska doesn't matter so much.  Introducing Enchantment.  Stretched so her capacity is up compared to her sisters in class but still on the small ship scale yet a small bump over Serenade in terms of berths.  It's the biggest small ship in the fleet (at double occupancy) and has 69 more staterooms compared to Serenade.

Another 2,200 berths in Alaska and the most ever.  For 2023 well over 12,000 berths in Alaska which is the most they have ever had but with a cross section of the fleet from new, large and modern to smaller and more classic.  Enchantment is the path to increase capacity to the maximum without bringing in something big like Voyager class that might oversaturate the market and could lead to a decrease in overall revenue.

It's a low risk move to an extent.  Enchantment will make more money in Alaska compared to being in Baltimore.  That's almost guaranteed.  That satisfies that core fundamental of Royal - put ships where they make more money.  At the same time the Vancouver round trip is not a proven route.  That is a new route for Royal.  It's not a bad route, it's actually a pretty great route (double glacier some weeks), but it is new to Royal.  Serenade does it in 2022 (hopefully) but that season is not in the books yet.  It's still unproven from a business perspective.  Enchantment is a good fit because it's low risk relative to other choices and it will make more money compared to placing her in Baltimore.  It's not that they don't make money in Baltimore.  It's about making more money in Alaska. 

The same core fundamental Royal logic applies to Serenade.  Where can they place her for the northern summer of 2023 where she will make more money ideally with lower risk?  Time will tell what they have in store for her.  Australia is also a lucrative market.  Put a ship there and it sells. Maybe they go for year round from Oz with Serenade?  Bold move, less risk with a reasonably sized ship for a class that has performed well in that market.  Who knows?  

Where ever they place Serenade for the northern summer of 2023 it will be where they feel they will maximize revenue potential for that ship and if it's not Alaska it has to be somewhere else that is a lucrative market.  Time will tell.

For Royal it's not exactly a chess match where they have to position the pieces carefully to win the game but they do have to sit back and look at the big picture with an overall strategy in mind.  In that sense it is like a chess match that never ends.  Meanwhile us cruisers tend to focus on one market at a time.   We don't always see the big picture.  Enchantment in Alaska frees up another game piece to position somewhere else.  The choice to place Enhancement in Alaska could be strategic in nature.  

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On 12/16/2021 at 11:20 AM, twangster said:

Alaska is a money maker.  Enchantment is a way to have the most berths ever while not over-saturating the market. Alaska could be strategic in nature.  

So, a somewhat related question.

I just had a look at Enchantment's schedule. The last cruise out of Baltimore finishes at the end of March 2023. The first Alaska cruise out of Vancouver is scheduled for the 23rd of April.

Is that enough time to do a Panama Canal cruise with passengers?

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6 minutes ago, FionaMG said:

So, a somewhat related question.

I just had a look at Enchantment's schedule. The last cruise out of Baltimore finishes at the end of March 2023. The first Alaska cruise out of Vancouver is scheduled for the 23rd of April.

Is that enough time to do a Panama Canal cruise with passengers?

In theory yes, but it depends how it is offered.  Unlikely they'll offer it starting in Baltimore or ending in Vancouver.  They could repo empty to Miami then do a revenue cruise or they could do it empty and seek relief from the canal authority for being empty of guests.  Normally passenger ships pay based on berths, not actual guest count but if a ship has zero guests there may be a special exemption for select canal fees.

Per sea-distance.org:

Way #1

Distance 5964 nautical miles VIA Panama Canal
Vessel speed 14 knots
Time

17 days 18 hours

 

 

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On 12/15/2021 at 6:28 PM, twangster said:

September 2022 she is still in Port Canaveral.  She doesn't leave until November 2022.

I've frequently had Perfect Day show up in the cruise planner for Alaska.  It never was even a blink of a thought they were building Perfect Day Frozen Tundra Edition.  It was clearly an IT glitch.  

Not gonna lie, I had a dream/nightmare the other night that we were going to "Perfect Day on Ice" as a stop on our next cruise. Port stop was listed as Minnesota. No idea how my brain created that scenario, and yet here we are.

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I’ve seen some ‘funky’ sailings for Wonder pop up on the website. I think they are having issues posting the winter 2023-2024 sailings, for some reason.  

Doesn’t surprise me that there are other issues, what with the new releases PLUS moving some ships for 2022. Hopefully it will all be corrected soon. 

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On 12/17/2021 at 6:29 PM, GKMCruising said:

Not gonna lie, I had a dream/nightmare the other night that we were going to "Perfect Day on Ice" as a stop on our next cruise. Port stop was listed as Minnesota. No idea how my brain created that scenario, and yet here we are.

YES!!!!!!!! FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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