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Double Crown & Anchor points on ALL 2021 sailings. . .


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This promo isn't going to convert infrequent cruisers to suddenly becoming frequent cruisers booking multiple cruises every year from now until the end of time.  

If someone was booking multiple cruises every year they were already well on their way up the ladder.  

The infrequent cruiser isn't going to crowd the lounge consuming benefits on the ship they aren't sailing on.  Let them be Diamond and if they earn it through this promo so be it.

"Jane and Joe only booked a cruise once every two years but since becoming Diamond they now book four cruises every year" - NOT!!!  However if this was the outcome Royal would be very pleased.  

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1 hour ago, PaulRC said:

It is a good idea but the draw back to something like that would be couples could / would end up with different point totals.  May be that does not matter but??

 

If you declare your spouse in a C&A relationship both accounts automatically show the higher point tally.  The person with the lower points has to manually count their points to know where they really are.  

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1 hour ago, twangster said:

Moving away from nights on a ship to credit card spend is a slippery slope.  It's a loyalty program to get people to book more cruises (and the associated revenue from on board spending that follows naturally).  

Once you introduce spend where do you cross the line?  Shore excursion generate revenue but not the margins like dining.  Dining generates revenue but not the same margins as alcohol sales.  Beverage packages are successful now.   For any of these on board revenue sources could they raise prices to cover the cost of C&A points to be included?  If not they are giving away something for free or at a loss. 

Next guests would want t-shirt sales to get points.  Guests would want bingo sales to get points.  Guests would want candy sales to get points.  If I buy $10 worth of gummy bears, how many points do I get?  Does a double espresso get one point or two?  If I'm one point from Diamond and I buy fresh squeezed orange juice three times next cruise will that make me Diamond?  

How come a $79 dining package nets one point but a $700 helicopter excursion only nets 2 points?  If a 3 night dining plan nets one point then that expensive excursion should get 7 points, but those are the points a whole cruise gets.  At some point it can start motivating guests in the wrong way.  I can get more points from a back massage compared to an excursion so let's not do any excursions, instead let's do 4 back massages because it's cheaper per point.  

I lost $2k in the casino.  How many points do I get?

You use the "promotion"  when you need a revenue boost.   Not for trivial purchases, but for maybe every $500 or $1K of on-board sales.   So you could purchase some spa/dinner/photo packages and get a point or two.  

 The current 2X deal won't be permanent.  Its being used to boost near term bookings and collect more deposits.  Why couldn't Casino spending also be applied?  Maybe every $1K in cash cycled through the casino, in they throw in a point or two.   If you're on the cusp of a level, you might just drop a few bucks so you're there the next time you sail.

 

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45 minutes ago, cruisellama said:

You use the "promotion"  when you need a revenue boost.   Not for trivial purchases, but for maybe every $500 or $1K of on-board sales.   So you could purchase some spa/dinner/photo packages and get a point or two.  

 The current 2X deal won't be permanent.  Its being used to boost near term bookings and collect more deposits.  Why couldn't Casino spending also be applied?  Maybe every $1K in cash cycled through the casino, in they throw in a point or two.   If you're on the cusp of a level, you might just drop a few bucks so you're there the next time you sail.

 

Casino has its own program that comes with its own perks and offers for more free cruises.  Heads would spin trying to layer that into additional earning of C&A points.  At some point they have to account for every dollar.  What is the cost of a free point based on casino spend when that guest got a free cruise and is already earning C&A points for being on board?

What if I have $400 in OBC and use that on board?  Tracking refundable OBC versus other OBC versus OBC from travel agents versus cash relative to items purchased and tracking costs down to the dollar is not an insignificant effort.  Cruise Planner purchases versus truly on board purchases and keeping track where the money came from sounds easy but it isn't.  

$400 of t-shirts & watches or $400 of artwork or $400 of booze all have different margins and some won't cover the cost of the additional C&A points bundled in.  Royal can hardly handle it now, trying to write a program to track all of that relative to spend to calculate C&A points earned by spend would be a huge undertaking.  

Then guests would get upset.  I used OBC to buy six specialty dinners, why doesn't that qualify?  It's my OBC, it's just like cash.  

Revenue managers on board are accountable to reach revenue targets but now after the cruise is over they have to subtract the cost of C&A points awarded and find themselves short in some areas.  Sounds like a nightmare.

It's slippery slope.  Once you start to deviate from "nights with your head on a pillow" it becomes very confusing for everyone involved.   

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27 minutes ago, Lovetocruise2002 said:

Umm...yes!

Haha, ENABLER!!!

Hopefully we'll be bidding for our schedule for 2021 in the next two weeks and I'll know if I have a chance.  I found an Allure sailing that goes to both Labadee & Coco Cay (I've never been to Labadee!).

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1 hour ago, SpeedNoodles said:

I'm thinking of booking a back up cruise next fall in case I can't get Thanksgiving off from work for the Group Cruise. 

? No time off to cruise?

If I'm elected all cruise holidays will be approved.  I'm twangster, I'm not running for office but I still approve this message.

1 hour ago, SpeedNoodles said:

I found an Allure sailing that goes to both Labadee & Coco Cay (I've never been to Labadee!).

Ooohhh.  Labadee is beautiful.  I highly recommend Labadee.  

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20 minutes ago, twangster said:

? No time off to cruise?

If I'm elected all cruise holidays will be approved.  I'm twangster, I'm not running for office but I still approve this message.

 

Ha, that's the rub of working for an organization that runs 24/7/365.  Hopefully I can bid Wed/Thursdays off, so I automatically get Thanksgiving off. Normally I like to work it, but there's a CRUISE involved!!

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20 hours ago, twangster said:

Casino has its own program that comes with its own perks and offers for more free cruises.  Heads would spin trying to layer that into additional earning of C&A points.  At some point they have to account for every dollar.  What is the cost of a free point based on casino spend when that guest got a free cruise and is already earning C&A points for being on board?

What if I have $400 in OBC and use that on board?  Tracking refundable OBC versus other OBC versus OBC from travel agents versus cash relative to items purchased and tracking costs down to the dollar is not an insignificant effort.  Cruise Planner purchases versus truly on board purchases and keeping track where the money came from sounds easy but it isn't.  

$400 of t-shirts & watches or $400 of artwork or $400 of booze all have different margins and some won't cover the cost of the additional C&A points bundled in.  Royal can hardly handle it now, trying to write a program to track all of that relative to spend to calculate C&A points earned by spend would be a huge undertaking.  

Then guests would get upset.  I used OBC to buy six specialty dinners, why doesn't that qualify?  It's my OBC, it's just like cash.  

Revenue managers on board are accountable to reach revenue targets but now after the cruise is over they have to subtract the cost of C&A points awarded and find themselves short in some areas.  Sounds like a nightmare.

It's slippery slope.  Once you start to deviate from "nights with your head on a pillow" it becomes very confusing for everyone involved.   

All your points are good.  There would need some thought behind on it on what makes financial sense.   I believe the Hotel, Dining, and Beverage executives all have revenue targets.  Perhaps the casino operations is separate profit center, so different rules might apply.   I'm just suggesting this might be an interesting tool for departments to boost revenue.   Need to sell more drink or dinner packages?  More photo packages?  Then provide a marketing incentive to bundle different packages up to a dollar level to pick up a point.   I think folks on a tier cusp might spend a few bucks to bump to a higher level.  As you note - it needs to be smartly and fairly done - while making financial sense - of course approved/established by the company leadership.  I don't think it would be so gross as to enable an entire tier move on a single cruise.  It's interesting to model what it takes to progress from 1st cruise to Pinnacle.  Many assumptions required - but you have to spend a boatload of $$ and spend many sea nights to make it that far.   You can try to do it with low cost cabins, or accelerate with suites - but its a boatload of money. Its an interesting trade study.

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51 minutes ago, cruisellama said:

It's interesting to model what it takes to progress from 1st cruise to Pinnacle.  Many assumptions required - but you have to spend a boatload of $$ and spend many sea nights to make it that far.   You can try to do it with low cost cabins, or accelerate with suites - but its a boatload of money. Its an interesting trade study.

I've done it in pretty short order without "Diamonds in December" or "Loyalty2x" type promos.  I didn't benefit from casino comps either.  Purely revenue sailings using the basic framework of the CAS available to everyone. 

Cabins breakdown 25.6% Interior, 16.3% OceanView, 27.9% balcony and 30.2% suite on 21 different ships.  CAS balcony discounts get better as you climb so I was spending less and less time without a balcony as I climbed higher.  Shy of a year cumulative time on board ships to get it done.

Spent around ~$4,000 for Voom along that journey.

People often assume or make the mistake of finding the cheapest interior cabin in fleet and modeling Pinnacle from that.  It would actually be hard and longer to make Pinnacle that way because those super cheap interior rates can't be found consistently.  They vary with season and typically only occur off peak.  To make Pinnacle just on those would take years longer waiting for them to come around.

Find me at bar on a ship someday and we can talk all about it.    

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On 10/20/2020 at 3:07 PM, twangster said:

Moving away from nights on a ship to credit card spend is a slippery slope.  It's a loyalty program to get people to book more cruises (and the associated revenue from on board spending that follows naturally).  

Once you introduce spend where do you cross the line?  

I think you bring up some great points, but Holland America already does this, so it’s not completely unheard of. 
 

10 years ago most cruise line loyalty programs were based on cruises sailed (or sometimes either or cruises or nights.) Moving towards nights only is fairly recent, and still limited to the major brands.  I wouldn’t be surprised if a move to onboard spend being a factor was more widespread in the future. 
 

 

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17 hours ago, twangster said:

I've done it in pretty short order without "Diamonds in December" or "Loyalty2x" type promos.  I didn't benefit from casino comps either.  Purely revenue sailings using the basic framework of the CAS available to everyone. 

Cabins breakdown 25.6% Interior, 16.3% OceanView, 27.9% balcony and 30.2% suite on 21 different ships.  CAS balcony discounts get better as you climb so I was spending less and less time without a balcony as I climbed higher.  Shy of a year cumulative time on board ships to get it done.

Spent around ~$4,000 for Voom along that journey.

People often assume or make the mistake of finding the cheapest interior cabin in fleet and modeling Pinnacle from that.  It would actually be hard and longer to make Pinnacle that way because those super cheap interior rates can't be found consistently.  They vary with season and typically only occur off peak.  To make Pinnacle just on those would take years longer waiting for them to come around.

Find me at bar on a ship someday and we can talk all about it.    

That would be great.  I found coming up with assumptions for daily rate for each class of cabin to be pretty difficult (a TA could do much better).  RCL only uses 2 levels for point awards.  Celebrity has 6 different point awards based upon cabin class.  Then I ran a comparison (very gross) to determine how much you have to spend on either line to reach Diamond/Elite and Pinnacle/Zenneth.  (As status as reciprocal between lines - which is line is cheaper to attain the highest level).  Gross results:  On Celebrity you can reach Zenneth faster with the highest level suites (earning 18 point/day) at an overall cumulative lower cost (inverse).  But I'm sure my daily rate assumptions are overstated for the non-suite and assumed too low for suites in both cases.   If you throw Edge class and Oasis class top end Iconic and Family Grand suites it really hikes the $/night, but on Celebrity as you're earning 18pt/night you reach the top level faster.  So fast track to Celebrity  Zenneth with suite route is $76K/pp for 160 nights at sea.  Fast track to Pinnacle would be non-suites for $105K/pp (probably lower as daily rate assumption  is overstated) and 700 sea days.  Again this was a very gross estimate.

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1 hour ago, cruisellama said:

So fast track to Celebrity  Zenneth with suite route is $76K/pp for 160 nights at sea.  Fast track to Pinnacle would be non-suites for $105K/pp (probably lower as daily rate assumption  is overstated) and 700 sea days.  Again this was a very gross estimate.

I looked at a Galapagos sailing on Celebrity that would have netted 360 points solo.  That's without the current double promo that doesn't apply to solo on X.  

I know a couple that puts the wife in a suite solo and stashes the husband either with friends as a 3rd person in their cabin or in a cheap interior on a casino comp.  With status matching they let her climb the ladder solo.  She is also prime in the casino so she gets her cabins comped and they upgrade to a suite for the triple points, now 6x the points with the current promo for 2021. 

What's unknown is their casino spend.  On cruise fare alone they reached Pinnacle and soon will be double Pinnacle at a fraction of your numbers but they need to spend money in the casino to get there. 

The point is I suspect the cheapest way to top status is probably a lot lower than your numbers if you work the casino right.  Keep in mind in the casino sometimes you win, sometimes you lose but all the while the spend will keep new casino offers coming.  As long as you spend something to upgrade on those free casino offers you get points at a fraction of face value.

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Gee, I guess Ceil and I are dinosaurs.  We are both just 4 points away from Diamond Plus and have never received multiple points - just one point per day (post-conversion).  It has taken us 24 years to this point!!!  We have never cruised in a suite, or solo, or any other multi-point promotion.  I bet not many can say this...  but if we sail next year neither will we.  ?

To address point dilution, I seems to us that once the Oasis class launched the number of Diamonds sky-rocketed.  Maybe due to increase of Suites in the fleet, promotions, solo cruise options, etc.  There was a time when Diamond Plus was allowed into other lounges, but now that is mostly curtailed.  Point dilution has already happened...

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Royal is pretty good at crunching numbers and analyzing data trends.  Crown and Anchor is exactly where Royal wants it to be.  With 2020 wiped out and 2021 looking way different than normal Royal conceived this promo to leverage Crown and Anchor for its intended purpose knowing exactly what the effect will be.  

It is still the best cruise line loyalty program available for my needs.  This promo doesn't really do anything for me in the near term but it also doesn't negatively impact me so if it accomplishes goals for Royal during this dark time that is still a win for me.

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4 hours ago, YOLO said:

Gee, I guess Ceil and I are dinosaurs.  We are both just 4 points away from Diamond Plus and have never received multiple points - just one point per day (post-conversion).  It has taken us 24 years to this point!!!  We have never cruised in a suite, or solo, or any other multi-point promotion.  I bet not many can say this...  but if we sail next year neither will we.  ?

To address point dilution, I seems to us that once the Oasis class launched the number of Diamonds sky-rocketed.  Maybe due to increase of Suites in the fleet, promotions, solo cruise options, etc.  There was a time when Diamond Plus was allowed into other lounges, but now that is mostly curtailed.  Point dilution has already happened...

You paid your dues.  Currently no one is sailing (since March), so no one is collecting any points.  In effect we have "lost time", and as Ben Franklin once said, "Lost time is never found.."  

Celebrity introduced a patch during the shutdown where you actually earn some loyalty points without sailing.  You can't get many, but 4 is not difficult to pick up.  My wife and I have picked up 6 points each without sailing just playing the game.

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4 minutes ago, cruisellama said:

Celebrity introduced a patch during the shutdown where you actually earn some loyalty points without sailing.  You can't get many, but 4 is not difficult to pick up.  My wife and I have picked up 6 points each without sailing just playing the game.

I will have to check this out...  Thanks!

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