CGTLH Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 27 minutes ago, smokeybandit said: Pretty awful, unless the 95% route allows them to not have to follow these rules. https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/covid19-operations-manual-cso.html If I'm reading things right the rules apply no matter what. Restricted passenger voyages are implied while the CSO is in place. The simulated voyages led to restricted voyages. Meeting the vaccination requirements avoids the simulated voyage requirement before going to restricted voyages. From https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/covid19-cruiseships.html On May 5, 2021, CDC released the next two phases of the Framework for Conditional Sailing Order (CSO) for cruise ships operating or seeking to operate in U.S. waters. CDC published technical instructions for cruise ship operators preparing to conduct simulated (“trial”) voyages in advance of restricted passenger voyages under a COVID-19 Conditional Sailing Certificate. With the issuance of these next two phases, cruise ship operators now have all the necessary requirements and recommendations they need to start simulated voyages before resuming restricted passenger voyages and apply for a COVID-19 conditional sailing certificate to begin sailing with restricted passenger voyages. CDC may adjust these requirements and recommendations based on public health considerations and other factors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icf75 Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 8 minutes ago, smokeybandit said: Here's the CDC data on breakthrough cases. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html Based on that, if you had 2 cruises ships with 5000 people on them, 1 person across both cruises would be infected. They need to treat this like flu, highly likely no serious illness and reduced transmission with vaccines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 27 minutes ago, smokeybandit said: Pretty awful, unless the 95% route allows them to not have to follow these rules. https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/covid19-operations-manual-cso.html That's a negative. 7 minutes ago, CGTLH said: If I'm reading things right the rules apply no matter what. Restricted passenger voyages are implied while the CSO is in place. Ding. Ding. Ding. We have a winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icf75 Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 7 minutes ago, twangster said: That's a negative. Ding. Ding. Ding. We have a winner. If thats in place in August, wheres my refund! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 I like this bit: While the Order permits temporarily removing a mask for brief periods of time while eating or drinking, removal of the mask for extended meal service or beverage consumption would constitute a violation of this Order. Is a sit down meal an extended meal service? Kind of sounds like it. So much for sipping a glass a wine or beer. Gulp. Mask. Gulp. Mask. Gulp. Mask. Except you aren't supposed to touch your mask. Hmmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunkelBierJay Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 My question is....will there be swag for the simulators? Patt Whitmore 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 6 minutes ago, DunkelBierJay said: My question is....will there be swag for the simulators? "I Survived the CDC Protocols" t-shirts. Neesa, DunkelBierJay, Patt Whitmore and 1 other 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeybandit Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 8 minutes ago, twangster said: I like this bit: While the Order permits temporarily removing a mask for brief periods of time while eating or drinking, removal of the mask for extended meal service or beverage consumption would constitute a violation of this Order. Is a sit down meal an extended meal service? Kind of sounds like it. So much for sipping a glass a wine or beer. Gulp. Mask. Gulp. Mask. Gulp. Mask. Yep. It's all absurd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boston Babe Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 9 minutes ago, smokeybandit said: Based on that, if you had 2 cruises ships with 5000 people on them, 1 person across both cruises would be infected I'm ok with that. You missed my point. For me personally, when I resume cruising by myself after losing my dear husband, I would like to it be like it was when we were cruising together PRIOR to Covid. I only referred to the vaccine stating it's possible. I'm really not sure of your point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffB Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 7 minutes ago, twangster said: While the Order permits temporarily removing a mask for brief periods of time while eating or drinking, removal of the mask for extended meal service or beverage consumption would constitute a violation of this Order. This is the stupidest of stupid stuff going on with the CSO. Restaurant's and bars have been doing fine with no masking while eating or dinking the entire dining period without any problems for at least 6 months. I'm confidently waiting on the Federal Judge hearing FL's request for a preliminary injunction against the CDC enforcing it's Conditional Sail Order (CSO) on the cruise industry ruling that it is unlawful. May 12th!!! If it's granted the bull-shit walks and the CDC's house of cards along with it's stupidity involving all manner of stupid COVID mitigation measures and guidance all comes crashing down. SebagoSue, Baked Alaska and DunwoodyDad 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep1 Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 I think once again we are too jumpy. This stuff is for the 2b part... The TEST Sailings... You're missing that much of this stuff we are exempt from this with the 98/95 ends met on several ships. I'm not seeing that any of this is set in stone for future sailings. Again the test sailings prior to taking paying . For paying and only AFTER the test sailings there I'm sure a whole different set of protocols... This is no surprise... It was made clear that there are TWO Paths going forward and you're getting twisted about this one being the test sailings and all the EXTRA measures being taken... Its a different set of rules for the 98/95 runs and all these rules are subject to changing several times before July... I'm vacced and have a box of masks if need be. I don't give a poo. My plan is to be top deck waving bye bye to those on land who couldn't be inconvenienced when the time comes. Pooch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXcruzer Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 25 minutes ago, smokeybandit said: Yep. It's all absurd. And we haven't touched on the part where the cruiselines need to contract with "quarantine hotels" to dispatch all the dirty covid positive people for 14 days. deep1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep1 Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 39 minutes ago, twangster said: I'm shocked, the CDC didn't slide an easy button across the table after all. Yeah they did the 98/95% option Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 Prohibit self-guided or independent exploration by passengers during port stops. Okay, CWC here I come! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeybandit Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 7 minutes ago, deep1 said: Yeah they did the 98/95% option That just gets you past the test cruises though, not the rest of the CSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep1 Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 8 minutes ago, TXcruzer said: And we haven't touched on the part where the cruiselines need to contract with "quarantine hotels" to dispatch all the dirty covid positive people for 14 days. Saw it someplace in todays paperwork . That and how to get the people home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXcruzer Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 6 minutes ago, twangster said: Prohibit self-guided or independent exploration by passengers during port stops. Okay, CWC here I come! me too, and its going to be a refund Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep1 Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 7 minutes ago, smokeybandit said: That just gets you past the test cruises though, not the rest of the CSO What was issued today really isn't the cso. Its the details of 2b which is the testing... Not the sailing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 7 minutes ago, TXcruzer said: me too, and its going to be a refund If they manage to get ships sailing I'd be surprised if refund is an option. Baked Alaska 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeybandit Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 6 minutes ago, twangster said: Prohibit self-guided or independent exploration by passengers during port stops. Okay, CWC here I come! And they want cruise lines to ban all shore excursions for any country that isn't Level 1. WHich for Caribbean cruises leaves you with Cayman Islands (oops, they don't want cruise ships), Grenada, BVI, and St Kitts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeybandit Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 7 minutes ago, deep1 said: What was issued today really isn't the cso. Its the details of 2b which is the testing... Not the sailing. https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/covid19-operations-manual-cso.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 9 minutes ago, deep1 said: What was issued today really isn't the cso. Its the details of 2b which is the testing... Not the sailing. All approved voyages will be subject to the CSO. Once you get past simulated voyages or 98/95%, ALL voyages are considered "restricted passenger voyages" May 5, 2021 Update On May 5, 2021, CDC released the next two phases of the Framework for Conditional Sailing Order (CSO) for cruise ships operating or seeking to operate in U.S. waters. CDC published technical instructions for cruise ship operators preparing to conduct simulated (“trial”) voyages in advance of restricted passenger voyages under a COVID-19 Conditional Sailing Certificate. With the issuance of these next two phases, cruise ship operators now have all the necessary requirements and recommendations they need to start simulated voyages before resuming restricted passenger voyages and apply for a COVID-19 conditional sailing certificate to begin sailing with restricted passenger voyages. CDC may adjust these requirements and recommendations based on public health considerations and other factors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep1 Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 8 minutes ago, twangster said: All approved voyages will be subject to the CSO. May 5, 2021 Update On May 5, 2021, CDC released the next two phases of the Framework for Conditional Sailing Order (CSO) for cruise ships operating or seeking to operate in U.S. waters. CDC published technical instructions for cruise ship operators preparing to conduct simulated (“trial”) voyages in advance of restricted passenger voyages under a COVID-19 Conditional Sailing Certificate. With the issuance of these next two phases, cruise ship operators now have all the necessary requirements and recommendations they need to start simulated voyages before resuming restricted passenger voyages and apply for a COVID-19 conditional sailing certificate to begin sailing with restricted passenger voyages. CDC may adjust these requirements and recommendations based on public health considerations and other factors. Read that again slowly and carefully. Technical instructions for the "Trial" voyages in "Advance". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep1 Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 11 minutes ago, smokeybandit said: https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/covid19-operations-manual-cso.html The manual for SIMULATED voyages... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 6 minutes ago, deep1 said: The manual for SIMULATED voyages... This is all that vaccines do. Beyond the simulated voyages, vaccines do nothing else. Option in Lieu of a Simulated Voyage In lieu of conducting a simulated voyage, cruise ship operator responsible officials, at their discretion, may sign and submit to CDC an attestation under 18 U.S.C. § 1001 that 98 percent of crew are fully vaccinated and submit to CDC a clear and specific vaccination plan and timeline to limit cruise ship sailings to 95 percent of passengers who have been verified by the cruise ship operator as fully vaccinated prior to sailing. Baked Alaska 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep1 Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 15 minutes ago, smokeybandit said: That just gets you past the test cruises though, not the rest of the CSO What was released today isn't the cso. Its a tech manual for simulated and test cruises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep1 Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 6 minutes ago, twangster said: This is all that vaccines do. Beyond the simulated voyages, vaccines do nothing else. Option in Lieu of a Simulated Voyage In lieu of conducting a simulated voyage, cruise ship operator responsible officials, at their discretion, may sign and submit to CDC an attestation under 18 U.S.C. § 1001 that 98 percent of crew are fully vaccinated and submit to CDC a clear and specific vaccination plan and timeline to limit cruise ship sailings to 95 percent of passengers who have been verified by the cruise ship operator as fully vaccinated prior to sailing. Thats 98/95% option of which I speak. Baked Alaska 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 Basically phase 4 is the same regardless if the ship is full of vaccinated or unvaccinated. "Restricted Passenger Voyages" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 Vaccines only impact phase 2B by removing phase 2B from the graphic above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXcruzer Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 16 minutes ago, twangster said: If they manage to get ships sailing I'd be surprised if refund is an option. I'm thinking there will need to be a refund option for those unvaccinated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 7 minutes ago, TXcruzer said: I'm thinking there will need to be a refund option for those unvaccinated CWC. Once ships are performing cruises we are lucky to have CWC as an option. Book after May 31 and no CWC. Baked Alaska 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 The only hope is that a Phase 4B is in the works that lists something different for vaccinated. Until that happens, all cruises are restricted passenger voyages subject to all requirements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC Pats Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 So, if the same "restricted passenger voyages" rules apply to both the 95%/98% vaccinated sailings and regular (for non-vaccinated persons) sailings, why have a difference? I'm confused about that. To me, if the overwhelming majority of a ship is vaccinated, why would I have to wear masks/social distance, etc. Wouldn't the benefit of a "vaccinated" cruise be not to have to do any of the things the cruises with un-vaccinated persons? Baked Alaska 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 8 minutes ago, Josh C said: So, if the same "restricted passenger voyages" rules apply to both the 95%/98% vaccinated sailings and regular (for non-vaccinated persons) sailings, why have a difference? I'm confused about that. To me, if the overwhelming majority of a ship is vaccinated, why would I have to wear masks/social distance, etc. Wouldn't the benefit of a "vaccinated" cruise be not to have to do any of the things the cruises with un-vaccinated persons? On the surface the only thing that vaccines do is eliminate the need to do simulated voyages. Neesa 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXcruzer Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 12 minutes ago, twangster said: CWC. Once ships are performing cruises we are lucky to have CWC as an option. Book after May 31 and no CWC. I have Symphony coming up in July. Booked over a year ago. Vaccine requirement was not part of the contract i booked under. That has to be grounds for a refund. For the record, I am vaccinated, but am not interested in cruising with any of the apparent protocols. Neesa and icf75 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 Here is what the CDC is saying... If a cruise line requires 98/95% vaccines they can apply for a CSO certificate now (or when phases 1A and 2A have been completed). Once they get approved and get the certificate, all remaining CSO rules for restricted passengers voyages apply until the CSO expires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeybandit Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 23 minutes ago, deep1 said: The manual for SIMULATED voyages... And "Restricted" which are the revenue cruises bound by the CSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 7 minutes ago, TXcruzer said: I have Symphony coming up in July. Booked over a year ago. Vaccine requirement was not part of the contract i booked under. That has to be grounds for a refund. For the record, I am vaccinated, but am not interested in cruising with any of the apparent protocols. I'm betting the cruise contract has some verbiage that covers them when a government changes a rule or regulation. But I'm not a lawyer and don't play one on TV. MrB and Neesa 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXcruzer Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 8 minutes ago, twangster said: I'm betting the cruise contract has some verbiage that covers them when a government changes a rule or regulation. But I'm not a lawyer and don't play one on TV. Yeah, I am in over my head as well, good news is we will all know soon enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 In Simple Terms If no vaccines required: If 98/95% vaccines are required: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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