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CDC officially says it is SAFE for fully vaccinated people to travel!


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I value your opinion This is just mine. 

Your entitled.

Moving on beyond this controversial subject of vaccine passports ......... I don't get the impression that the countries that have allowed cruise ships to operate from their ports are requiring cruise lines to adopt a policy that all passengers and crew will be vaccinated.

The policy of vaccinating crew adopted by the major lines emerged before the announcements that passenger sailings would begin from selected foreign ports. My take is that the cruise lines health panels discussing vaccines determined that adopting a policy that all passengers will require proof of vaccination before boarding was a proper step in moving forward toward more cruise ship operations. This is especially practical in countries that have low levels of circulating virus and want to keep it that way. I see it as bone the cruise lines are throwing to the Bahamian and St. Maarten Governments.

I also agree with Smokeybandit ........ the Desantis EO barring the use of vaccine passports by businesses operating in FL under FL business licenses isn't going to affect cruise ships, when and if they obtain clearance from the CDC to operate from US ports, at all. 

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I think we all should exercise a lot of caution with respect to sharing personal health choices and information with any private business.   If a sports venue or movie theater starts building a d

Just another opportunity to drive a bigger wedge into the double standard of travel by cruise ship versus literally any other form of travel

This new guidance from the CDC is consistent with what many developed countries are thinking or doing.  Vaccinated equates to lower risk. You don't have to look very far to find evidence of many

This new guidance from the CDC is consistent with what many developed countries are thinking or doing.  Vaccinated equates to lower risk.

You don't have to look very far to find evidence of many developed nations trying to figure out the vaccinated passport concept, if it can be done, if it should be done, how to do it, etc.

If it is right, or not, is a valid question and I'm not trying to advocate one way or the other in this response.

Many would be travelers are faced with vaccination requirements to travel and have been for a long time.  This is particularly evident when a would be traveler isn't from a developed nation.  They may face a list of vaccination requirements to travel.  No vaccination?  No travel VISA.  Most of us haven't been subject to these requirements but they have long been there.  Some popular vaccination requirements for international travel include yellow fever, meningococcal disease and Poliomyelitis (Polio) for example.  Some countries list these vaccines as "recommended" and some countries have vaccine "requirements" depending on one's travel history and not their actual citizenship.

A major difference when looking at our current situation rests in the emergency use approval of the vaccines in question.  Fast forward several years into the future and presumably some of these vaccines will be fully approved.

The issue then becomes how do we move forward from where we are today with emergency use vaccines into the future 5, 10 or 30 years from now when presumably there will be fully approved mainstream vaccines available?

In the 14th century it was common during times of mass disease for arriving ships to be placed in isolation for 40 days.  The ship remained off shore and If the disease wasn't evident after 40 days the ship was then allowed to arrive.  The word "quarantine" has roots in maritime use meaning forty days, the length of time for isolation required for arriving ships.  Technically a 14 day quarantine is an oxymoron since quarantine by definition is/was 40 days.  

How would have the world behaved in the 14th century if a passenger on a ship could prove they had been given a vaccine for the bubonic plague?  "Here's my bubonic passport, let me in"  while the rest of ship remains in quarantine for 40 days.   There were no vaccines in those days so it's a hypothetical scenario. 

In some ways we've come a long ways merely by having an emergency use vaccine available to us.  In other ways we are no better off than travelers in the 14th century facing travel restrictions should we choose to travel by ship.  Six hundred years later and not much has changed. 

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I think we all should exercise a lot of caution with respect to sharing personal health choices and information with any private business.  

If a sports venue or movie theater starts building a database with my health information that may seem innocent enough for this particular virus but where is this going?  Will information be used to target sales and promotions?  What about discounts?  Will my health information be shared or sold to other businesses so a different unrelated business can target sales to me?

It's one thing for a government to request vaccine data when someone arrives for entry into a country.  It's another matter when private business begins requiring this data as a condition to enter a business or purchase a service.

I avoid many social media platforms for this reason - they are really just trying to gather a lot of personal details about you.  What they do with that information is the real danger.   

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20 hours ago, princevaliantus said:

To clarify, this is directed ONLY to businesses conducting in the State of Florida. Doesn't include cruises as that is out of DeSantis reach.

It could get sticky with the CDC pushing for port workers to be vaccinated...  That would fall back into state Jurisdiction. (I think) The whole VAC thing really complicates a lot of areas.... 

 

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With states opening up vax to everyone anyway, getting all shoreside support people vaccinated shouldn't be an issue.

By the time these stupid shoreside agreements are finally blessed by the CDC, you'll be able to go to your local CVS and get a vaccine without an appointment.

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1 hour ago, deep1 said:

It could get sticky with the CDC pushing for port workers to be vaccinated...  That would fall back into state Jurisdiction. (I think) The whole VAC thing really complicates a lot of areas.... 

 

Port workers are Federal employees. Unless there are employed by a private entity at the port.

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1 hour ago, princevaliantus said:

Port workers are Federal employees. Unless there are employed by a private entity at the port.

We  have federal "TWIC" clearance but many  are independently employed and under contract.  In the northern ports they are heavily unionized.  The terminals are often manned in several positions with the Cruise line staffs. Then you have various vendors , suppliers, purveyors, pilots, tugs, etc. 

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39 minutes ago, twangster said:

And USCG.  

I answer most often to USCG. There are other law enforcement agencies operating in most ports as well. I saw  somewhere today Jersey mentioned. Wow! They have a pile of agencies. USCG, DHS, Border Patrol,  US Customs and Immigration, NYPD Harbor Patrol, NJ Marine Police,  Close to the bases or ammo pier add NAVY... 

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12 minutes ago, deep1 said:

I answer most often to USCG. There are other law enforcement agencies operating in most ports as well. I saw  somewhere today Jersey mentioned. Wow! They have a pile of agencies. USCG, DHS, Border Patrol,  US Customs and Immigration, NYPD Harbor Patrol, NJ Marine Police,  Close to the bases or ammo pier add NAVY... 

There's always local LEOs.   

I'm also TWIC card holder.  That's my favorite ID to use when returning to a ship at a US port.  Works good at TSA as well, since it's their program 🙂 

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6 minutes ago, twangster said:

There's always local LEOs.   

I'm also TWIC card holder.  That's my favorite ID to use when returning to a ship at a US port.  Works good at TSA as well, since it's their program 🙂 

Flying to South Africa years back, ticket agent entered wrong middle initial for me. At Palm Beach they weren't going to let me board. I was fumbling through ID's (Twic included) and they waved me through. Got to JFK and they were all over me about the middle initial . Same thing... Except I heard the guy say "TWIC!"  Waved right through  again...  If I present it in most ports it gets the "yes sir"  treatment.  

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6 hours ago, twangster said:

There's always local LEOs.   

I'm also TWIC card holder.  That's my favorite ID to use when returning to a ship at a US port.  Works good at TSA as well, since it's their program 🙂 

Twangster, I always read and appreciate your thoughts on most subjects, and mostly agree.  But, what is TWIC?

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6 hours ago, RCVoyager said:

Twangster, I always read and appreciate your thoughts on most subjects, and mostly agree.  But, what is TWIC?

Transportation Worker Identity Card. This card is issued by the United States Transportation Security Administration and the United States Coast Guard. Individuals must have a TWIC to gain access to secure maritime facilities. These often include ships, ferries, dockside warehouses and port customs offices.

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4 hours ago, VACruiser said:

Transportation Worker Identity Card. This card is issued by the United States Transportation Security Administration and the United States Coast Guard. Individuals must have a TWIC to gain access to secure maritime facilities. These often include ships, ferries, dockside warehouses and port customs offices.

In other terms, essentially TSA Precheck for maritime faciltiies.

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BIDEN ADMINISTRATION WILL NOT REQURE COVID-19 VACCINE PASSPORTS.

That's the headline and its going to spark numerous questions.

Can a private entity require proof of vaccination or negative COVID test to enter their premises? Yes, according to Fauci when asked and depending on how states deal with this.

The bottom line for cruising is that cruise lines can and very likely will require proof of vaccination AND negative COVID tests (probably PCR) to board. Full stop.

For private entities that do require proof of vaccination, get ready for heaps of complaining, cries of unfairness and claims that there are now two classes of American citizens. You've heard a lot of this before when it came to mask mandates. Desantis has already issued an EO to prevent businesses operating in FL under FL business licenses from mandating vaccines to receive services offered. That WILL NOT affect cruise ships - already discussed. 

I'm not going to get into the pros and cons of this. Just a heads up that we're going to see a battle royal between those that think people should be vaccinated to do stuff and those that don't.    

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6 minutes ago, JeffB said:

Just a heads up that we're going to see a battle royal between those that think people should be vaccinated to do stuff and those that don't.    

Oh, that's already happening on social media.

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13 minutes ago, JeffB said:

BIDEN ADMINISTRATION WILL NOT REQURE COVID-19 VACCINE PASSPORTS.

That's the headline and its going to spark numerous questions.

Can a private entity require proof of vaccination or negative COVID test to enter their premises? Yes, according to Fauci when asked and depending on how states deal with this.

The bottom line for cruising is that cruise lines can and very likely will require proof of vaccination AND negative COVID tests (probably PCR) to board. Full stop.

For private entities that do require proof of vaccination, get ready for heaps of complaining, cries of unfairness and claims that there are now two classes of American citizens. You've heard a lot of this before when it came to mask mandates. Desantis has already issued an EO to prevent businesses operating in FL under FL business licenses from mandating vaccines to receive services offered. That WILL NOT affect cruise ships - already discussed. 

I'm not going to get into the pros and cons of this. Just a heads up that we're going to see a battle royal between those that think people should be vaccinated to do stuff and those that don't.    

I respect Royal’s right to require vaccines but hope that until the vaccine has been given full approval for all ages that they don’t deny children from cruising in the mean time

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And while we're on the subject of vaccination passports, the US government can do whatever it wants with this idea. That is not going to stop other governments from imposing the requirement for proof of vaccination to enter their countries. Nothing new here and that has been discussed.

Right now, this is a fast moving ball game. So far in Europe, from my vantage point, the EUC hasn't come out saying vaccine passports are going to be required to travel between EU countries. This is a very sticky subject right now. Personally I want to resume traveling to and within Europe. I'd feel much better about doing that with most airlines and cruise lines seemingly moving towards requiring vaccinations anyway, that those I'm coming in contact with in airports, cruise terminals and other public spaces that most are vaccinated.   

IOW, I'm subrogating my concerns over the potential vulnerability of my health information to my wish to travel.

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24 minutes ago, UNCFanatik said:

I respect Royal’s right to require vaccines but hope that until the vaccine has been given full approval for all ages that they don’t deny children from cruising in the mean time

They've already made clear they won't be doing any such thing. The sailings on offer out of Bermuda and Nassau (and St. Maarten for Celebrity) already allow children under 18; they just need a negative Covid test prior to boarding. If that's the policy now, I highly doubt they'd change it when actual sailings out of US ports finally resume. I think even the CDC protocols couldn't force them to make that kind of change; but you can bet that if they somehow did, Royal would put that blame squarely on the CDC and make it very clear that it's not their choice and you can look at the cruises already on offer to see how they want kids on board.

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