DunwoodyDad

Eat at a Guy’s Burger Joint because that would require me to get on a Carnival ship.

This right here is what has bothered me for months and still makes me so frustrated with the CDC and anyone who defends the CSO a under the guise of health safety. The lines had facts on their side of protocols working from outside the US...not guesses (even very educated guesses like for instance “6 feet for proper distancing”). But instead of looking at those facts of successful protocols that lines were executing without outbreaks in order to maintain positive PR/protect their fragile brands after the early pandemic, the CDC and naysayers still believed the myth that cruises were not capable of sailing safely. Then came the test cruises, etc, etc. 

Eat at a Guy’s Burger Joint because that would require me to get on a Carnival ship.

Eat at a Guy’s Burger Joint because that would require me to get on a Carnival ship.

Eat at a Guy’s Burger Joint because that would require me to get on a Carnival ship.

Eat at a Guy’s Burger Joint because that would require me to get on a Carnival ship.

This right here is what has bothered me for months and still makes me so frustrated with the CDC and anyone who defends the CSO a under the guise of health safety. The lines had facts on their side of protocols working from outside the US...not guesses (even very educated guesses like for instance “6 feet for proper distancing”). But instead of looking at those facts of successful protocols that lines were executing without outbreaks in order to maintain positive PR/protect their fragile brands after the early pandemic, the CDC and naysayers still believed the myth that cruises were not capable of sailing safely. Then came the test cruises, etc, etc. 

Correction: In my post above I incorrectly sequenced how the USCA will review the defendant's appeal. The first step is to review the request for a stay of the injunction pending a review of the appeal. Reverse those two steps. The motion for a stay gets reviewed first  
The CDC's basis of the motion for a stay is that things are going along smoothly with regards to the cruise lines restarting in compliance with the CSO, i.e., the cruise lines operations  make the case for the CSO. The CDC bolsters this claim with their continued claim that cruise ships are inherently riskier, wrt disease transmission, than other forms of public conveyance. The emerging facts don't bear that claim out. 
Other than those stubborn facts that keep arising and causing the CDC's lawyers problems, there is nothing fundamentally wrong with this basis or documentation that bolsters it. Where there is another obvious problem is the restrictions on full cruise ship operations both in the past (the FL lawsuit notes that harm was done to the state and Meryyday concurred) and going forward. These will continue under the CSO with the attendant loss of revenue to FL unless that document is enjoined according to Merryday's ruling.
More precisely, if the cruise lines had been able to restart almost 6 months ago under the guidelines of the Healthy Sail Panel - which have very obviously worked outside the US - none of the economically costly cold and warm storage of cruise ships would have happened. None of the staggering global impact on the economic engine that the cruise line industry is would have happened. A more robust and less expensive, less complicated cruise ship restart under the Healthy Sail Plan alone, without the CDC riding herd, would have occurred. More cruises from FL, the more the tax revenue. More cruise ships that restart the quicker the cruise lines reverse the global economic and unemployment nightmare created by the CDC's unnecessary and unlawful NSO and subsequently the CDC's CSO. 
A stay continues that unfair and costly happenstance until the appeal is reviewed and acted upon. My previous argument that the CDC's appeal is weak and will fail on it's own makes a successful appeal on review by the USCA unlikely. For heavens sake, don't grant a stay to prolong this craziness.  

Eat at a Guy’s Burger Joint because that would require me to get on a Carnival ship.

Eat at a Guy’s Burger Joint because that would require me to get on a Carnival ship.

Certainly your guess is as good as mine. But I don't think the stay will be granted. Remember, this is not a re-trial. The defendant moves for an appeal in the district USCA (step one). They submit documents supporting the request for the stay to the court (step 2) Either the entire court or a single judge can review the material and make a decision sequentially on both steps. Based on what I know of that submission, I've already argued it is a weak appeal (step one). On that basis alone and if I'm correct about the strength of the appeal, the USCA will defer to Judge Merryday's ruling and not entertain step 2.
While the defendant can submit documents and testimony to support a stay, I don't think the USCA can move ahead to consider that if the Judge(s) rule that the grounds for an appeal that I listed in my previous post are not satisfied and I don't think they will be.
I disagree with this argument. Let's take a look at the argument that congress has recognized the (CDC's) authority by adopting a law that relies on the CSO as part of the law. Judge Merryday shot this argument down when the CDC's lawyers presented it. Why he did that is contained in his ruling. There was some case law cited on this specific argument in Merryday's ruling. The precedent was established in several other cases where similar arguments were presented to the court and the rulings did not support them.
Let's look at your scope of authority argument. You are correct. He provided a history lesson in his ruling but that was for the purpose of illuminating the precedent setting case law that limited the CDC's authority. Merryday ruled that precedent certainly did not authorize the CDC to shut down an entire industry's shipping operations for the period of time that they did. This was one of the five claims FL made in it's original law suit and it was firmly supported in Merryday's ruling. I will grant that the USCA's roll is to determine if the law was interpreted and applied correctly so, Merryday's ruling in this specific instance is subject to review.   
Next you ask, " they don't have the authority unless they use it in a way he agrees with?" Yes, the role of a federal judge is to do precisely what he did....... interpret the law using precedent, where it is available, to determine, in this case if the CDC has the authority to do what they did. Merryday ruled they did not and what they did do was, in fact, create law, the CSO, that only the US congress has the authority to make. This is a classic, and entirely correct, interpretation of the separation of powers provisions in the US Constitution and laws between the 4 branches of government.
I'm arguing that:
Defendant's haven't presented sufficient evidence that the Merryday trial wasn't fair and/or he interpreted the law incorrectly to grant the appeal (step one). Pretty sure they have to cross that bar before a judge will entertain and review documents supporting the CDC's request for a stay Failing that, a request for a stay can't be granted (step 2) The clock is ticking on FL's request to Judge Merryday for an emergency hearing. For all intent and purpose, that was granted. Since the CDC gave Merryday the finger, refusing to rewrite a CSO that comported with existing law, and filed an appeal with the USCA, if the appeal is denied, and I think it will be, and a stay not granted, the CSO becomes unenforceable recommendations in 11 days on July 18th.      TBF, my argument has no more or no less value than @MrMarc's. JMO, YMMV.

OK, great. Not unexpected although I thought the Merryday ruling was lock tight and I think the US Court of Appeals (USCA) will say the same thing and defer to the lower courts decision.
An apeal isn't a new trial. Becerra cannot introduce nw evidence or add addtional testimony. Reading the documents, they did just that. It is entirely possible that the appeal, once it is reviewed by the USCA, is heard and the defendants are told, sorry no dice. The Merryday ruling is affirmed.
So, what's the time lime? Lets go back to the original suit filed by the stat of FL. You'll recall that FL moved and was granted an expedited (emergency) hearing. That was more or less granted. The CDC lawyers presented their arguments, Merryday considered them in light of the state of FL's submissions and arguments and sent the CDC packing. Subsequently Merryday said you have until July 2nd to submit a rewrite of the CSO that conforms with your authority granted under U.S.C. 42, Chapter 264.  Then the CDC asked for an extension and Merry day gave them until 7/22. The clock is still ticking on that original FL request for an expedited hearing.
I'm not entirely sure but I think submitting an appeal makes everything Merryday instructed the CDC to do (rewrite the CSO) moot. It now moves to the USCA with the clock ticking and if the appeal fails, and I feel confident it will, Merryday will default to enjoin the CSO. This will turn oout to be a failed last ditch effort by the CDC in all or nothing sort of circumstance. The CDC will get NOTHING.
You'll recall Merryday's ruling included the conclusion that the FL suit would prevail on it's merits. Only a successful appeal can change that.  No way to predict but it is such a weak appeal, technically flawed (more testimony and more evidence submitted - can't do that) and the FL request for an exeditied hearing clock is still ticking. I suspect if it is a possibility, the USCA simply won't hear it..... I think that's how it works. The USCA can do that. It shuts down the CDC and invites Merryday to move forward with enjoing the CSO 
Given this chain of historical events in the case and what I think is the outcome of the appeal if it is even heard (see above) - go directly to jail, do not pass go - the CSO gets enjoined. It could be a couple of days, weeks or months and I think the former - in weeks rather than days -  is more likely.
Look, this is typical legal maneuvering so, fine. Becerra wants to drag this out until the CSO expires and he and the CDC don't have egg on their faces.  But on the merits, its's ridiculous and a waste of the court's time. Gut feeling tells me the judge sitting on this case at the USCA will see that.
Let's move along here people.   

Yes, It is very important to attend the first meeting on the first night of the cruise.  There are some organized activities as well but a lot of groups form up the first night.  Keep in mind that all the kids are in the same boat.

I could see me dashing to the bar ? Gotta get your money’s worth out of that drink package! This wasn’t me BTW. It came from a Royal Facebook group

I don't get the "used to it" part. Why would I pay thousands for someone to make me wear a mask. Quit doing that a long time ago and won't start again for a cruise that costs a lot of money.
Hopefully you all enjoy your sailings..............

This may be a deal breaker for me.   I am fully vaccinated and see no reason to wear a mask.  

Not sure how old your kids are but have them go to the kids and / or teens club (depending on age of course) the first night. That’s when they meet friends and it makes a giant difference.
We did a DCL cruise years ago but also switched as the kids got a little older and appreciated the focus more on activities and hanging out with other kids their age. They just preferred hanging out at Sorrentos for pizza, going ice skating, doing an escape room, or even walking around the ship with their new friends.  Not that there were not similar opportunities on Disney...it just seemed like the focus was more on Disney stuff and/or younger kids.
With 4 kids we went from 2 cabins to 3 cabins and despite that spent thousands less each cruise. They love RCL cruises even today (ages 15-20 now) and yet we are a huge Disney family.  We just did a week at WDW and had a great time but no one evens mentions going back on DCL. Meanwhile we are booked on an RCL ship between Christmas and NYE and the family can’t wait.

Miami traffic can be a PITA during rush hour and sometimes on weekends too but it's still very doable, just don't book early flights out of FLL.
There are fewer people debarking due to reduce capacity but the process is uncertain since no ship has done it yet in the US during the pandemic.

The recommendation I've seen for any port was to never book flights home before noon on debarkation day.  This allows time for any delay that may occur and you should still be at the airport 2 hours ahead of your flight, as recommended by the TSA.
 
It may be overkill, but i'd rather be sitting at the airport relaxing before the flight and not be sprinting through the terminal like an 80's movie ?

Never bet the ranch on ANYTHING involving driving in Miami. It’s only 25 miles but it can be a very very long 25 miles. IMHO with the uncertainty of COVID-19 travel related to debarkation of the ship I would think a noon or later departure out of FLL is a safe bet. I was stuck in Miami for 2 hours this am waiting on Biden’s motorcade to pass by so you just never know!

Right now it seems Royal is waiting on updated guidance from the CDC. Fun question is how long will they need to wait.
In the coming days, we are expecting updated guidance from the CDC on mask policies for vaccinated guests in shared spaces and will update you at that time.

Not sure how old your kids are but have them go to the kids and / or teens club (depending on age of course) the first night. That’s when they meet friends and it makes a giant difference.
We did a DCL cruise years ago but also switched as the kids got a little older and appreciated the focus more on activities and hanging out with other kids their age. They just preferred hanging out at Sorrentos for pizza, going ice skating, doing an escape room, or even walking around the ship with their new friends.  Not that there were not similar opportunities on Disney...it just seemed like the focus was more on Disney stuff and/or younger kids.
With 4 kids we went from 2 cabins to 3 cabins and despite that spent thousands less each cruise. They love RCL cruises even today (ages 15-20 now) and yet we are a huge Disney family.  We just did a week at WDW and had a great time but no one evens mentions going back on DCL. Meanwhile we are booked on an RCL ship between Christmas and NYE and the family can’t wait.

Not sure how old your kids are but have them go to the kids and / or teens club (depending on age of course) the first night. That’s when they meet friends and it makes a giant difference.
We did a DCL cruise years ago but also switched as the kids got a little older and appreciated the focus more on activities and hanging out with other kids their age. They just preferred hanging out at Sorrentos for pizza, going ice skating, doing an escape room, or even walking around the ship with their new friends.  Not that there were not similar opportunities on Disney...it just seemed like the focus was more on Disney stuff and/or younger kids.
With 4 kids we went from 2 cabins to 3 cabins and despite that spent thousands less each cruise. They love RCL cruises even today (ages 15-20 now) and yet we are a huge Disney family.  We just did a week at WDW and had a great time but no one evens mentions going back on DCL. Meanwhile we are booked on an RCL ship between Christmas and NYE and the family can’t wait.

I just booked for December on Freedom but did so assuming much of the restrictions are gone by then. I don’t wear a mask now anywhere any more so don’t want to be on a cruise where it would be expected in some situations. I plan to use the Cruise with confidence program to move my cruise out if things aren’t better by final payment in Oct. 

Not sure how old your kids are but have them go to the kids and / or teens club (depending on age of course) the first night. That’s when they meet friends and it makes a giant difference.
We did a DCL cruise years ago but also switched as the kids got a little older and appreciated the focus more on activities and hanging out with other kids their age. They just preferred hanging out at Sorrentos for pizza, going ice skating, doing an escape room, or even walking around the ship with their new friends.  Not that there were not similar opportunities on Disney...it just seemed like the focus was more on Disney stuff and/or younger kids.
With 4 kids we went from 2 cabins to 3 cabins and despite that spent thousands less each cruise. They love RCL cruises even today (ages 15-20 now) and yet we are a huge Disney family.  We just did a week at WDW and had a great time but no one evens mentions going back on DCL. Meanwhile we are booked on an RCL ship between Christmas and NYE and the family can’t wait.