Brobbins246

OK, I know I made the most recent posting on this thread, and I certainly wasn't thinking about the family when I wrote it last night.  I don't regret anything snarky I say about the attorney, but I just got a huge reminder about what this family is going through.  The family is from a town literally 10 minutes south of where I live (I've known that since the event happened), but I just read the obituary.  The memorial service took place this afternoon with visitation until this evening.  Apparently Chloe was a preemie, given her low birth weight and early medical scares, which I can relate to as the mother of 32-week preemie who, thank God, is now a healthy 16-year old.  For her to die the way she did, in such happy circumstances (family vacation) after overcoming problems at birth just takes my breath away.
https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/kpcnews/obituary.aspx?n=chloe-wiegand&pid=193383989&fhid=8595
 

OK, I know I made the most recent posting on this thread, and I certainly wasn't thinking about the family when I wrote it last night.  I don't regret anything snarky I say about the attorney, but I just got a huge reminder about what this family is going through.  The family is from a town literally 10 minutes south of where I live (I've known that since the event happened), but I just read the obituary.  The memorial service took place this afternoon with visitation until this evening.  Apparently Chloe was a preemie, given her low birth weight and early medical scares, which I can relate to as the mother of 32-week preemie who, thank God, is now a healthy 16-year old.  For her to die the way she did, in such happy circumstances (family vacation) after overcoming problems at birth just takes my breath away.
https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/kpcnews/obituary.aspx?n=chloe-wiegand&pid=193383989&fhid=8595
 

OK, I know I made the most recent posting on this thread, and I certainly wasn't thinking about the family when I wrote it last night.  I don't regret anything snarky I say about the attorney, but I just got a huge reminder about what this family is going through.  The family is from a town literally 10 minutes south of where I live (I've known that since the event happened), but I just read the obituary.  The memorial service took place this afternoon with visitation until this evening.  Apparently Chloe was a preemie, given her low birth weight and early medical scares, which I can relate to as the mother of 32-week preemie who, thank God, is now a healthy 16-year old.  For her to die the way she did, in such happy circumstances (family vacation) after overcoming problems at birth just takes my breath away.
https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/kpcnews/obituary.aspx?n=chloe-wiegand&pid=193383989&fhid=8595
 

OK, I know I made the most recent posting on this thread, and I certainly wasn't thinking about the family when I wrote it last night.  I don't regret anything snarky I say about the attorney, but I just got a huge reminder about what this family is going through.  The family is from a town literally 10 minutes south of where I live (I've known that since the event happened), but I just read the obituary.  The memorial service took place this afternoon with visitation until this evening.  Apparently Chloe was a preemie, given her low birth weight and early medical scares, which I can relate to as the mother of 32-week preemie who, thank God, is now a healthy 16-year old.  For her to die the way she did, in such happy circumstances (family vacation) after overcoming problems at birth just takes my breath away.
https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/kpcnews/obituary.aspx?n=chloe-wiegand&pid=193383989&fhid=8595
 

OK, I know I made the most recent posting on this thread, and I certainly wasn't thinking about the family when I wrote it last night.  I don't regret anything snarky I say about the attorney, but I just got a huge reminder about what this family is going through.  The family is from a town literally 10 minutes south of where I live (I've known that since the event happened), but I just read the obituary.  The memorial service took place this afternoon with visitation until this evening.  Apparently Chloe was a preemie, given her low birth weight and early medical scares, which I can relate to as the mother of 32-week preemie who, thank God, is now a healthy 16-year old.  For her to die the way she did, in such happy circumstances (family vacation) after overcoming problems at birth just takes my breath away.
https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/kpcnews/obituary.aspx?n=chloe-wiegand&pid=193383989&fhid=8595
 

OK, I know I made the most recent posting on this thread, and I certainly wasn't thinking about the family when I wrote it last night.  I don't regret anything snarky I say about the attorney, but I just got a huge reminder about what this family is going through.  The family is from a town literally 10 minutes south of where I live (I've known that since the event happened), but I just read the obituary.  The memorial service took place this afternoon with visitation until this evening.  Apparently Chloe was a preemie, given her low birth weight and early medical scares, which I can relate to as the mother of 32-week preemie who, thank God, is now a healthy 16-year old.  For her to die the way she did, in such happy circumstances (family vacation) after overcoming problems at birth just takes my breath away.
https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/kpcnews/obituary.aspx?n=chloe-wiegand&pid=193383989&fhid=8595
 

OK, I know I made the most recent posting on this thread, and I certainly wasn't thinking about the family when I wrote it last night.  I don't regret anything snarky I say about the attorney, but I just got a huge reminder about what this family is going through.  The family is from a town literally 10 minutes south of where I live (I've known that since the event happened), but I just read the obituary.  The memorial service took place this afternoon with visitation until this evening.  Apparently Chloe was a preemie, given her low birth weight and early medical scares, which I can relate to as the mother of 32-week preemie who, thank God, is now a healthy 16-year old.  For her to die the way she did, in such happy circumstances (family vacation) after overcoming problems at birth just takes my breath away.
https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/kpcnews/obituary.aspx?n=chloe-wiegand&pid=193383989&fhid=8595
 

OK, I know I made the most recent posting on this thread, and I certainly wasn't thinking about the family when I wrote it last night.  I don't regret anything snarky I say about the attorney, but I just got a huge reminder about what this family is going through.  The family is from a town literally 10 minutes south of where I live (I've known that since the event happened), but I just read the obituary.  The memorial service took place this afternoon with visitation until this evening.  Apparently Chloe was a preemie, given her low birth weight and early medical scares, which I can relate to as the mother of 32-week preemie who, thank God, is now a healthy 16-year old.  For her to die the way she did, in such happy circumstances (family vacation) after overcoming problems at birth just takes my breath away.
https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/kpcnews/obituary.aspx?n=chloe-wiegand&pid=193383989&fhid=8595
 

Doesn't count, he's not on a Royal ship :)
 

?
99 days til we go on the cruise!
99 days til we go!
Sun goes down and comes back around,
98 days til we go on the cruise!
 
98 days til we go on the cruise!
98 days til we go!
Sun goes down and comes back around,
97 days til we go on the cruise!
 
97 days til we go on the cruise!
97 days til we go!
...
?
 
?

I assume while the ship was docked in San Juan today, the investigators and lawyers did more investigating.  This is probably when Winkelman or his team got their first look at the actual area in question.  I'm looking forward to hearing an update from him saying, "Sorry, my bad.  I realize now how preposterous my theory was."  One can dream.
 

I assume while the ship was docked in San Juan today, the investigators and lawyers did more investigating.  This is probably when Winkelman or his team got their first look at the actual area in question.  I'm looking forward to hearing an update from him saying, "Sorry, my bad.  I realize now how preposterous my theory was."  One can dream.
 

I assume while the ship was docked in San Juan today, the investigators and lawyers did more investigating.  This is probably when Winkelman or his team got their first look at the actual area in question.  I'm looking forward to hearing an update from him saying, "Sorry, my bad.  I realize now how preposterous my theory was."  One can dream.
 

I assume while the ship was docked in San Juan today, the investigators and lawyers did more investigating.  This is probably when Winkelman or his team got their first look at the actual area in question.  I'm looking forward to hearing an update from him saying, "Sorry, my bad.  I realize now how preposterous my theory was."  One can dream.
 

I assume while the ship was docked in San Juan today, the investigators and lawyers did more investigating.  This is probably when Winkelman or his team got their first look at the actual area in question.  I'm looking forward to hearing an update from him saying, "Sorry, my bad.  I realize now how preposterous my theory was."  One can dream.
 

I assume while the ship was docked in San Juan today, the investigators and lawyers did more investigating.  This is probably when Winkelman or his team got their first look at the actual area in question.  I'm looking forward to hearing an update from him saying, "Sorry, my bad.  I realize now how preposterous my theory was."  One can dream.
 

I assume while the ship was docked in San Juan today, the investigators and lawyers did more investigating.  This is probably when Winkelman or his team got their first look at the actual area in question.  I'm looking forward to hearing an update from him saying, "Sorry, my bad.  I realize now how preposterous my theory was."  One can dream.
 

Hi All,
I'm new to this group, but have been on Freedom and have been following along since we booked our Harmony cruise for next spring.  
 
We all have deep compassion and sincere sympathy for this family.  I feel shaken to my core since first hearing about this tragic incident.   But what I find even more troubling and disturbing is the handling of events since this tragedy occurred. 
The immediate obtaining of their career cruise line litigator and their statements to the media just don't make sense. The claiming not to know the window was open, the hockey glass reference and subsequent released photo, being in the kids water zone when it occurred.  None of it makes sense.   I would have a lot more respect if the Grandfather had said; "I picked up Chloe to look out of the window and she wriggled out of my arms."   This makes sense. Yes, he is absolutely responsible, but we can understand how that would be plausible.  It's a devastating freak accident and we would send our outpouring of love and support to this family and the Grandfather even more so.  I'm sure many of us would gladly donate to a fund set up for the family and in Chloe's memory. My heart is literally breaking over the pain they must feel and will have to live with.
Instead, their refusal to take any responsibility and what feels like false statements pointing the blame at RCI  leaves me with a negative view of the family and an almost defensive feeling towards RCI. 
Toddler Was in ‘Kid’s Water Zone’ When She Fell to Her Death From Cruise Ship in Puerto Rico: Attorney
https://ktla.com/2019/07/09/toddler-was-in-kids-water-zone-when-she-fell-to-her-death-from-cruise-ship-in-puerto-rico-attorney/
This is just so blatantly untrue that it is deeply upsetting.  
 "The girl’s family wants to know why a window that “should have been closed securely” was open. “The family needs answers as to why there would be an open window in a wall full of fixed windows in a kids’ play area? Why would you have the danger without any warning, sign, or notice?” he asked.
Again,  this just feels wrong and untrue on so many levels.  
Winkleman said he will do everything he can to hold the cruise line "accountable for what appears to me to be negligence."
This right here shows his true motives. "Accountable" being as much money from RCI that he can get.  Whether is bending the truth or slandering RCI in the media. This guy appears to have one motive and he is good. 
It is just deeply disturbing to see the family and their lawyer pointing the blame at RCI for a clearly open window among many and it feels wrong to seek to profit off the tragic death of their daughter. I'm in favor of holding corporations responsible for negligence or when they put profits ahead of human safety, but this is not the case.  

Here's the thing -- life is dangerous and terrible, awful accidents happen.  And the awful, horrible things that happen can be just unimaginably painful and impossible to ever forget.  Reality, however, is that most of the time, these awful, horrible things really are just plain accidents.  There are not bad actors.  Royal Caribbean cannot create a cruise ship without windows that anyone would want to cruise on in the Southern Caribbean.  That area of the world is just plain hot.  If every area on a cruise ship were indoors, no one would cruise.  Outdoor areas require air circulation and a breeze or they become unbearable.  Thus, the pool deck of ships needs to be outdoors and it needs windows and fresh area.  There is no alternative.  Similarly, most of us want access to open air balconies, because being indoors on a cruise ship stinks and being outdoors without a breeze is miserable.
On the other hand, all of us do stupid things occasionally.  Who hasn't done something stupid like accidently not noticing a stop sign or a red light?  Who hasn't failed to notice a car in the lane next to us when changing lanes? Who hasn't lost track of a toddler for a couple of minutes at some point? All of us experience moments of distraction where we accidently engage in conduct that could cause an accident.  In almost all instances, our momentary lapses do not result in harm to us or anyone else.  In rare and awful cases, absolute tragedy results.  
Here, one possible scenario is that grandpa got on a ship.  A lot is going on and he focused on many different distractions at once.  He puts his granddaughter on his lap as he always does, and she stands up to look out over the rail.  Or he unthinkly, out of habit, stands her up on the rail as he always does and just for a brief second does not recongnize the danger of the open window and she is gone.  It is horrible and beyond tragic.  It is something too awful for anyone to contemplate.  But, it is not something for which either ship or granddad should be blamed.  
I took my eye off my five year old one day while we were swimming in a placid swimming hole I thought was safe.  I two seconds, my little boy was taken by a current I never saw or recognized over 20 foot dam.  He went over the waterfall, came up, and managed to hold onto a fallen tree until we could get to him and he was fine.  For the rest of my life, however, I will relive the horror of that moment and I will never, ever overcome the guilt of not recognizing the danger of that swimming area.  But, blaming me for my negligence would not help anyone.  It might make folks feel better about the safety of their own kids.  But, really, life is dangerous.  And every once in awhile, horrible accidents happen.  My deepest sympathy is with this family. 
The attorney, however, I hold the attorney in absolute contempt.

Maybe the reason they have moved so quickly is the father of the baby is a policeman and his friends are watching his back for him and making sure they help with the legal issues while they are in this horrible nightmare situation.  This is a very nice family.  My son worked with the father for about 8 years.  Have some compassion folks!  It is sad enough without a mock jury and trial.  May we all never feel the pain and hurt that this family is now dealing with and will for the rest of their lives.

As @twangster has previously said the glass goes all the way to deck level so there was absolutely no need to lift her up onto the railings. She could have happily looked out the glass and banged on it at deck level with no consequence.
I will say I don't believe the grandfather was "dangling" her through the open window as I just don't believe any grandparent would ever do that. Clearly he is very distraught over what has happened as anyone would be. Apart from the tragedy he is facing, having the world talking about you like this must be unbearable.
I have a lot of sympathy for him, as we all at one time or another make really bad decisions that we regret later, its just for most of us they aren't fatal.
I am sure there is not a second that goes by that he doesn't wish that he didn't make a different course of action.
Do I think RCI is negligent, no, but I can understand how the family and grandfather are trying to make sense of such a tragedy on what should have been a joyous family holiday.
In this age of living in a social media world where people are quick to condemn,, it is easy to forget that is actually real people with a grandfather and family going through a terrible loss.
In hindsight it was a terrible choice that was made, I am sure the grandfather would give anything to turn back time, but unfortunately life doesn't work that way and he will have to live with this for the rest of his life. That is a terrible burden to bear 
 

All - this thread is doing nothing but causing harsh language and hard feelings. It's accomplishing nothing. Nothing can be done to bring that little girl back, so just let it go and move on.

@Ann Worth  I am assuming your either from the UK or Australia....only reason why is you said Mum, not Mom.  
Unfortunately, the US is a very litigious country.  Go to any Mc Donald's drive thru and you will see on the window....Caution: Coffee is hot.  DUH! That is because a woman spilled her coffee on her lap and sued them.  I think she won 3 Million.  This was probably 15-20 yrs ago
The attorneys are probably already working out a settlement as we discuss this topic.  I am sure it will be in the millions, bc RCL knows that if they faced a jury and if that jury pool has never cruised they would side with them.  
I remember in NYC, I think it was when Eric Clapton's son fell from a high story building window or balcony they changed the regulations.  Now they cannot open or they must have guard rails over the windows.  I don't think he sued, I just think the media attention was so large they decided to created the regulation
I live in VA.  I was a Realtor.  If a new home is built with an outdoor access they must place a wooden fence like guard if there is no deck  to get a certificate of occupancy (CO), o CO, no closing on the home.  Height requirement is 24 inches.  You have to know that came because long ago someone probably thought they could jump that 24 inches to the ground, broke an ankle and sued.
On the east coast we have a burger chain called Five Guys.  They have peanuts for you to enjoy while you wait for your meal.  The fries are fried in Peanut Oil.  There are signs all over the place stating they use peanut oil.  This too I am sure came about somewhere long ago when someone had a reaction and sued.  
Go into other places and you will see Microwaves are used.  
Look at your car owners manual.  My 2016 Nissan Murano has 50 pages regarding seat belts and child seats.
The list goes on and on.  Ski?  Look at the back if your lift ticket.   Fly? Look at the fine print.  
I will say if course if this attorney is the one that changed RCL to hire life guards, good on him.  The sad part is not every cruise line has followed suit.  Sometimes the fall out gives benefits to the customer.
 
 

Thanks @twangster. I will go ahead and post them on here so that @Lovestotravel, @pezgirl, and @KathyC can see them! ? 
In order of the attachments:
The West Deck in Aruba -- on our walk to The West Deck in Aruba -- Palm Beach in Aruba -- Karel's Beach Bar in Bonaire -- Coco Beach in Bonaire -- view from our table at Perla Del Mar in Curacao -- Mambo Beach in Curacao
Hopefully that works!