RCVoyager

1 hour ago, Ray said:

And here lies the problem with the USA , common sense, Morals and ethics go out the window if someone can smell a way to make quick buck!!!!

 

In this case common sense, morals, and ethics would be supported because of the lawsuits that would come if a harmless legal activity like cruising were outlawed or disallowed by these discriminatory activities.

Even with all its warts, and believe me, I've been subject to some of those warts, the United States of America has done more for the benefit of human kind than any country in the history of the planet.  It's not close.

59 minutes ago, bobroo said:

It's the exact same discussion.

You are entitled to be as reckless and stupid as you want to be, but you are not entitled to allow your recklessness or stupidity to affect others.

 

You've recently been on a beach in Florida? Been on a cruise? Went inside a retirement home?  I'm sorry but that behavior is now endangering all these other people here.

Not on a beach in FL, but how about Disney?  Retirement home?  airplane, subway, city bus?  Movie theater, grocery store, school, ball game, church, restaurant, bar?  Union meeting? Court? Have you dated? Did you have s*x with someone who could have had a fever?  Did you get a list of that person's other partners with contact info so we can check them out?  Do you know anyone who has done any of these things?

Are you going to tell an LGBT or whatever letters are now used they can't go an an LGTB cruise?  Good luck with that.  What about NAACP convention in Detroit?  You going to tell an employee he/she can't go there?  Do you want Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton on the sidewalk in front of your house with their bullhorns?

It will not work.

Here's another one:  Do you want to be an employer who sends a young woman home for having a fever and then find out it's related to her menstrual cycle and nothing else?  Can you imagine the actual legitimate settlement that would come from that when you consider that RCCL is currently having to spend millions to defend itself because a grandfather picked-up his granddaughter and dropped her out an open window?  A window he denies he knew was open despite the video of him leaning the top half of his body out said window immediately before lifting the toddler.

The answers will ultimately come from the education side.  Wash your hands.  Don't touch stuff.  If you are sick, stay home.

12 minutes ago, bobroo said:

Employers have superseding rights to keep their employees and workplaces safe.

 

 

This is a completely different discussion than an employer stating that employees can't go on a cruise.  

1 hour ago, MinnesotaCruiser said:

Can they fire me if I lie?  How would anyone know if I never posted pics online or never told anyone where I was going in my workplace?

Are they going to hire a team of investigators to follow all employees who go on vacation?  What happens if they follow me but don't follow my coworker and we find out my coworker went of a cruise?  What happens if there is a chartered Christian cruise?  Are they going to try to control my religion?  Planes? What about ferry boats?  If ferry boats aren't allowed, what about city buses?  Subways?  City trains? What happens if I don't go on a cruise but my wife goes on a girls trip cruise?  Do I have to report this to my employer?  What happens if the boss' in-laws go on a cruise and then host Easter at their house one week later?  Does he/she have to go into quarantine?  I sometimes get semi severe sinus issues that come with a low grade fever in April and May.  Are they going to ban Spring?  There is no end to the possibilities all that are started by artificially singling out one industry. This is not going to happen.  

In the next month or so the National Emergency will end.  New cleanliness, behavioral,  and health standards will be put in place by most of society including cruising.  Eventually their will be a vaccine for this epidemic, but what about the next one? 

Because of the "floating petri dish" mantra propagated those with an agenda and the ignorant, the cruise lines will suffer for the next couple of years.  Out of that suffering will come many good rates for those of us who choose to return.  Unfortunately many new ships, upgrades, and other projects like private island development will be shelved. 

23 minutes ago, danv3 said:

But they can fire you for not answering.

And they can be sued for discrimination for firing someone FOR GOING ON A CRUISE, BUT NOT FIRING SOMEONE FROM GOING TO DISNEY.  It's not going to happen.  

If cruising goes down all of America will go down.  And I recognize, this is what some want.  Thank God certain recent situations worked out the way they did, because two decisions made by a current decision maker related to who ultimately decides what is allowed and what is not would look very different if some other person made the two decisions as to who ultimately decides what is allowed and what is not.

8 minutes ago, danv3 said:

Unless you work for a government agency, then the US constitution has nothing to do with how your employer treats you.  It simply doesn't apply to the private employer-employee relationship.  

Your employer might not be able to tell you where you can or can't go on vacation, but they absolutely can impose limits on your return to the office.  So your 7-night cruise might cost you 21 days of vacation.  If you're lucky, your employer will let you work the 14 days of quarantine from home...but they don't have to.  

They can not force me to tell them where I'm going on vacation.

4 hours ago, J-Fitz said:

I believe employers may claim they are keeping the workplace safe and may be safe-guarded by OSH Act. There are many new Covid-19 guidelines in place by OSHA. 

I don’t think it will be the employers asking where people are going but after the fact nervous coworkers telling their bosses that someone went on plane or cruise and they feel unsafe.

Unless cruising and air travel are banned, which by the way is what is the goal for some of the political side on this, my work cannot stop me from doing what I want on vacation, and I don't have to tell anyone at work what I am doing on my vacation.  The US Constitution protects Americans from just this sort of stuff (free speech, freedom to associate, ect).

This thing has gone way beyond a contagious illness.  It has become a boogeyman.  If they are going to ban cruising, I will be the first to join a class action forcing Disney to close.  Then sporting events.  Then concerts, movies, theater.  Next bars and restaurants.  Workplaces. 

If I have to, I'll start a Church that meets only on cruise ships.  How are they going to tell me I can't practice the religion of my choice?

My point is, in the end, they can't force Americans off of ships or out of planes for an extended period of time.  During a National Emergency... yes.  There may be new health guidelines, but unless cruises are put out of business, they can't ban American citizens from cruising or force them to disclose where they go on vacation.

3 hours ago, Ogilthorpe said:

One of my biggest concerns is the potential for a societal prejudice against cruises as a result of the media campaign to demonize cruise lines that results in employers and organizations subjecting employees and members to a 2 week imposed quarantine after taking a cruise. I may be way ahead of myself here, but uninformed employers could prevent even the most dedicated cruise afficianados from enjoying their vacation of choice. This could truly be negative for the cruise industry.

A couple of things that I have thought of with regard to this:  I don't know that your employer can force you to disclose what you are doing on vacation.  Second this could get real crazy real fast with the freedoms we have in the Constitution.  

1 hour ago, JohnK6404 said:

Along with the rusty hulls and frat party/"booze cruise" rep... the numerous mechanical/engine problems over the years, the infamous "poop cruise", multiple failed recent CDC health inspections, dumping violations...

We too would at least consider Carnival if a friend/family member booked a cruise and asked us to go, but I don't think we would initiate a Carnival booking unless it was say on the Mardi Gras (or at least one of their newest ships) or an insane rate. We have friends in Florida that sail Carnival and Royal regularly, but Carnival only because it's convenient, inexpensive, and as they say any cruise is a good cruise.

 

So we're saying the same thing.  The new ships are good and the old ships are not.  They need to retire the entire Fantasy Class.  Not only are they rusty and old, they are not environmentally friendly, have old engines, water systems, and sewer systems and simply not equipped to handle the volume or regulation.  They are beginning to take steps in the direction with the Dream Class in 2009 (Dream, Breeze, and Magic).  Those are awesome ships.  Then came the Vista, Horizon, and Mardi Gras. 

2 hours ago, jticarruthers said:

This was almost exactly our experience, did some of the older Carnival's out of Tampa, swore we would never cruise Carnival again and moved "up" to Royal. Got roped into doing a cruise on Vista with friends and realized what we disliked about Carnival was the older/smaller ships not the brand itself.

Plus 1.  this is my exact point.  They have about 20 ships that I would not choose to purchase a trip on (but that I would sail on if part of a group or someone else purchased for us) and about 6 or 7 that I would.  RCCL is pretty much opposite of that.  This fact combined with the decades old reputation of a "frat party at sea" and "Walmart of cruise lines" has millions of Americans who've never seen a cruise ship claiming Carnival is the devil on Earth.  At least that's my opinion of the problem they have.

2 hours ago, USFFrank said:

 I know they say Carnival is the Walmart of cruises, and I can see that in the last 2 cruises with them I've been on, but I have to admit, Guy's burgers, the French fries they serve and the crumbled bacon at their condiment bar are one of the reasons I'm going back this November.

The Carnival topic comes up here often.  Everyone has their own taste, I get that.

For us, after about 3 days of Windjammer lunch on RCL, we're looking for something else.  Carnival's newer ships never leave us wanting something else for lunch.  We are not big on upgraded restaurants, so we do the MDR unless it is a special occasion.  Carnival's dinner menus are as good as Royals to us... if not better.

The place Carnival falls short is its fleet.  The majority of their ships are 20 or so years old.  They did not get into the arms race of bigger better ships in the early 2000s.  However, their newer ships, starting the the Magic and Breeze are fantastic.  There just aren't as many of them as RCCL, NCL, and now MSC in North America.

People who dismiss Carnival out of hand are really missing out in my opinion.

On 4/14/2020 at 7:40 AM, mathbees said:

Since Puerto Rico is a US Territory, and the people there are US Citizens who can freely move back and forth to the mainland, they do act like a state, in most ways (except voting).  I think their response should be taken into comparisons.  They were more easily able to accomplish what many other states attempted to accomplish - total isolation, but with a more natural border (like Hawaii) they were more successful.  Look at the battle going on between Kentucky and Tennessee, another place where some useful data comes from in understanding whether isolating movements is a good response or not.  I think there will be a lot to learn from this pandemic outbreak that will drive future responses.

Jonesing is slang for a drug addict deeply wanting their next "fix" of whatever drug they use.  In this case, the "drug" of choice is cruising... and I think a lot of us are "jonesing" right now...

What's a "fix"?  just kidding.

3 hours ago, Neesa said:

@RCVoyager  Yes! They (CNBC) were teasing the cruise line CEO all day, we just started sailing and discovered our love for it in 2016 so we have DCL & now RCL as our experiences. I paced with the TV on with zero sound until Mr. Donald appeared. I gave this presentation my full attention and I sat with mouth gaping at the sheer nastiness of the two "talking heads" Their palatable disrespect for this man was disgusting, I was pained as they tag teamed him, having not been familiar with him I found him to be so professional, never loosing control of his emotions and directly responding to everything posed. He reminded me of old school Bob Iger style. Upon conclusion of the interview I felt his representation was amazing, I hope he was heard, and even after he invited the "heads" on a future sailing they were snarky, my teenager has better manners! Right now I am doing my RCL tour with 5 future bookings all on her different ships, but it did make me say "I hope the other CEO's contact him and communicate gratitude as he was just wonderful....and brave. I just can't understand the pure HATRED, just so sad. 

I believe the CDC (as reflected below) spearheads this feeling too, shame on them! 

Be safe & stay healthy !

 

Thankfully all of these networks that spew so much hate have minuscule audiences.  Not only are the audiences tiny, they are largely the choir that is being preached to so there is no real damage.  The vast majority of Americans tune them out altogether.

Now back to the real topic, I have been cruising for 30 years, and I come from a family of cruisers.  I'm glad you found the industry when you did, and I hope you and your loved ones have half of the fulfillment my family and I have had over the years.  I have not done DCL.  I love my children, but I'm not sure I love 1,000 of other people's children.  But, I have a sister-in-law who swears by DCL.  I plan to try it one day... maybe when my grand children come around.  It may not be too many years down the path.  My oldest (22) is getting married this summer.  She and her fiance love the parks, so a progression to the ships is a real possibility.

One other thing, the caption on your cartoon could also be "I wanna hear my voice".  There is a lot of that going on too!

1 hour ago, Neesa said:

We have never sailed Carnival but just watched CEO of Carnival Mr. Arnold Donald on CNBC. (We usually don't enjoy this option but wanted more info on the cruise lines) What a positive well spoken individual. In our opinion he was an amazing representative of the cruise industry. The 2 talking heads were hitting him with nasty & negative "statements" in the form of questions and his poised responses were full of facts and educated feedback. I was surprised how well he kept his cool. His message reflected well in our opinion on the cruise lines, it was a breath of fresh air during this awful time. If you can view it,  worth a look in my humble opinion. 

Stay healthy & safe!

Funny Neesa that you mention the talking heads with the negative statements disguised as questions.  I discussed that with our new PVP this morning.  He talked about how the cruise lines and Carnival need advocates like so many of us on this board are. 

This guy is one of their top sellers because he takes care of his clients like no other.  He said in their training they are taught to end every phone call with "thank you for being a valuable customer of Carnival" or something to that effect.  He says, I have never done that.  He says that if clients aren't thanking him at the end of the call for being a valuable asset, he is not doing his job.  Not only is he getting us everything we need, he chose our staterooms for us and got us two rooms next to the Grand Suites (best stateroom attendants on the ship).  His way of getting a partial cash refund was for me to write a letter that he will send to upper management bypassing all the normal channels that are backlogged and not all that helpful.

If anyone is interested in his contact info, I will provide.

43 minutes ago, Neesa said:

We have never sailed Carnival but just watched CEO of Carnival Mr. Arnold Donald on CNBC. (We usually don't enjoy this option but wanted more info on the cruise lines) What a positive well spoken individual. In our opinion he was an amazing representative of the cruise industry. The 2 talking heads were hitting him with nasty & negative "statements" in the form of questions and his poised responses were full of facts and educated feedback. I was surprised how well he kept his cool. His message reflected well in our opinion on the cruise lines, it was a breath of fresh air during this awful time. If you can view it,  worth a look in my humble opinion. 

Stay healthy & safe!

As we all know, the cruise lines in general and Carnival in particular are hated by the mainstream media.  I have said many times, and I will say again, the vast majority of people with negatives to say either have an agenda or they are ignorant of what cruising in general and Carnival in particular are all about.

I love to cruise both Royal and Carnival.  Each has advantages over the other, and in the end, they balance out to about equal in terms of the quality of the overall experience.

I am working with a new PVP at Carnival now to finalize the details of our twice cancelled cruise into an October trip.  The guy is amazing and I believe he will get us the $600 obc, our future cruise, and a cash refund of the difference because of the October cost savings.  They say it can't be done, but it's being done for us right now.

All cruises cancelled through June 26th.  I just received the email from Carnival.

17 hours ago, JLMoran said:

From yesterday's Times, in my news feed today: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/08/us/coronavirus-live-updates.html

Bet you dollars to donuts that those European transmissions were by airplane and not cruise line. But will the Times, or any other news publication, or any scientists, say that?

I realize that cruising wasn't even brought up in this article, but that's kind of the point. This would be a chance to at least suggest that the pointless dog-pile on cruising was the canard that all of us have been saying it is. Cruising became a scapegoat for easy spread of the virus, instead of pointing the finger at all forms of mass (sometimes intercontinental) transportation. I want this stupid, pointless stigma against cruising to be dropped all gosh-darned ready!

And on a separate note from this particular article -- if I have to hear the phrase "floating petri dish" in association with cruising from a medical professional one more time in a news broadcast or video add-on to an article, I may well scream out loud at them as much as I want to slap stupid people I see on TV.

And no, for those of you who've gotten to know me, I'm not drinking Zinfandel. This is two bottles of Belgian Tripel talking. 

This could be true, but I've trained myself the believe the opposite of anything written in the NYT.

13 hours ago, bigpete said:

Might just be spoiled with the luxury of leaving out of the two-gate Trenton, but even with leaving out of Philly, Frontier has never been horrible. If the base airfare is that low, consider upgrading to the "stretch" seating that reclines. If you fly them enough, you'll get these upgrades for free.

The joke for us in Indy is that you can't get to He!! (that place none of us want to go) out of Indy without connecting in Atlanta!

5 hours ago, twangster said:

But it's Frontier.  Ugh.  I've flown them before, once, then said never again.  

I get it Twangster, but options are limited from Indy, and we as mostly pleasure flyers like a good bargain.  We've had decent luck with Frontier.

Anyone think all of the travel industry isn't going to be offering crazy good rates coming out of this?  June 4, Indianapolis to Orlando on Frontier Airlines is $11.  

1 hour ago, Pima1988 said:

@monctonguy  The thing is this is a cruise forum, but trust me, the entire hospitality industry will be hit just as hard, or harder, in my post I am talking about the airline industry since it is a close example of the cruise industry.

Read me out.

My husband is a retired AF flier, many of our close friends are pilots for airlines (Commercial, FedEx, UPS)  My DS is a pilot.  Airlines prior to this were recruiting so many pilots that USAF was giving a 25K yr bonus on top of their 10K flight pay to keep pilots and were still losing them at a 75% rate at the officers 10 yr point.  These USAF pilots were actually taking a pay cut to fly for the airlines bc in the long run (5+ yrs) they would be making a lot more than that 35K they were being offered.

My best friend's husband is a commercial pilot.  His flight hours have been cut from 125 hrs to 70 a month.  His airline pays them per flight/leg.  That company is doing this just so they don't have to furlough anybody.  AA today announced they are starting furloughs.  Lufthansa has announced PERMANENT cuts.  

The thing to me is that I can see the cruise industry coming out of this faster than the airline/hotel industry.  I can get to Baltimore, Cape Liberty, FLL without staying in a hotel, or taking a flight.  I understand that is not true for everyone, but let's be real.  If you live in Venice and want to go to Corfu, but not get in a flying tin can with 150 people, than a cruise is a great option.  If you live in Texas and want to go to a beach destination, such as, Cozumel, than a balcony on a ship sounds better than a hotel.  Same could be said for if you live in the UK.  

I would much rather jump on a ship that I drove to than get in an airplane.  

PS.  I fly a lot.  My husband and I just joked last night that a yr ago, we were in Madrid at this time.  Came back flew to Alabama and TX in June.  Flew to TX in July.  Just saying no way no how will I fly b4 August at the earliest, get on a cruise ship in July, yep!   Look at how clean they keep an airport the next time you are there.  Have you ever seen someone wiping down the chairs by the gate after a flight leaves?  Look at a cruise ship.  Hands down cruise ships are cleaner, but than again it might be bc they constantly live under the fear of the Norovirus.  

I agree with this.  We have a June flight on a Friday that was cancelled.  The airline automatically switched us to Thursday which we can make work.  It led me to check their schedule to see how expensive our Thursday flight is on the airline's website.  The cost of the new flight is... wait for it.............  $11.  That's right and $11 fare, Indy to Orlando in June.

5 minutes ago, Jill said:

Yes I have kept up with them as well. Song of America is a beautiful ship. Monarch and Sovereign as well. They’re all so tiny now! Lol My heart is with Oasis class now. Freedom class doesn’t even cut it! Will be trying my first Quantum class (Odyssey) October of 2021. 

By water displacement, you can fit 5 Titanics in an Oasis class ship.  Crazy.

On 4/4/2020 at 12:33 PM, Jill said:

The Holland America ship (Zaandamn) was supposed to disembark in Chile. Chile refused them. Not sure about the Rotterdam. The ones out there trying to port in Florida I believe were all refused at their end points. 
 

According to Bloomberg, there are still 5 ships out there. 
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2020-where-are-the-cruise-ships/

Hi Jill.  I like looking up the histories of ships and sometimes like to look them up from the history of other posters on this board.  All three of your retired ships have long histories with a lot going on.  They're all still in operation.  Check them out in Wikipedia.  I have one from my history that actually sunk (not when I was on it, but it sunk).

15 minutes ago, twangster said:

If you ever have the opportunity to take a behind the scenes tour this is often a topic addressed.  

Sea water in a port is never used or taken on board because it can be contaminated with local surface runoff containing a myriad of contaminants like fertilizer, oils and human or animal waste.  Everytime it rains all those things are picked up and carried into streams that eventually flow into the ocean.  The general wisdom is to never take on water even to fill swimming pools until a ship is X miles from land.  Often territorial boundaries are used like the 12 mile limit.

At the same time ships process wastewater.  During the behind the scene tours they explain the advanced water purifications systems and will generally make a reference to cleaning waste water to the point that it is as good or better than drinking water, not that it is used for that purpose.  When it has been purified to this degree it can safely be put into the ocean but only away from land, they can't dump anything while within territorial limits so it's always done at sea.

There may also be an immigration aspect.  Crew work visas allow them to visit briefly but they are not tourist visas that allow them to stay for longer periods of time.  By returning briefly to international water they reset any immigration limits on crew work visas.  I haven't fully researched that so it may not be a factor in play during this time. 

Thanks Twangster.  That's a lot of information that makes sense.

35 minutes ago, WAAAYTOOO said:

Ships have to be under way in order to produce fresh water.  That could account for some of the movement. 

Thanks.  I didn't know that.