nate91

I called in yesterday and spent 2.5 hours trying to get two FCCs applied. One was from three months ago and still has not been applied, Royal had to speak with a supervisor to get that one taken care of.

I have a possible example of the "cruising public." I am planning a bachelor/bachelorette cruise in November (on Carnival, but their protocols are pretty similar). Around 16 people total, most of whom have never cruised before or only once. I reached out today to let them know about cruising protocols and rules, and how they would feel if the current rules still held in November. About half were willing to put up with the protocols, with about half preferring to either reschedule the cruise for a later date when things would (hopefully) be less strict, or cancel the cruise outright. So maybe that's a good reference for the "cruising public?" 
 

Keep it on cruises or we're going to have another thread lockdown...we're all tired of lockdowns! ? 

I think these two together about sum it up.

I think these two together about sum it up.

I think these two together about sum it up.

Adventurous mariner’s will need to navigate the voyage, exploring new waters.

Your post is a fair one. It's on topic re the courts so I'll respond and let the chips fall where they may:
TBC, Judge Merryday absolutely has the authority to tell the CDC to "submit" a re-write. I didn't use order but even then pretty sure he can do that too. In his courtroom he has sweeping powers. Can he put someone in jail on the spot for say, contempt? Without a hearing, without due process? You bet he can. Asking the CDC to rewrite and resubmit their crappy CSO is several rungs up the ladder of easy for him to do.
I also find it hard to understand that you didn't see that my concluding paragraphs speak exactly to your concerns about a "harm" that might come if Merryday rules against the CDC. I can imagine no harm that is done by this. In fact, I can imagine a ton of good. You may disagree and that's fine with me.
What good that I think is at stake in all of this, and why Federal Judges are probably looking at this entire case very closely, is that it DOES have the potential to curtail the creeping administrative state this Republic has become and produced what I consider to be the unlawful NSO and CSO. Shutting down an entire industry - in this case the cruise lines - because the CDC knee-jerked into doing something that looked good? Come on. Please. 
A win for FL will have sweeping precedential effect beyond the narrow scope of the 5 parts of FL's claim. The CDC is in the cross hairs where a FL win will take away the authority of HHS and CDC administrators to make quasi laws that don't comport with the powers granted to them by Congress and/or impinge on constitutionally guaranteed freedoms - even in a PHE. A win for FL will reestablish a strong precedent that will apply to the entire spectrum of Federal agencies that have grown bloated and more powerful and presently their policy makers have no accountability to the voters. The forefathers are likely turning over in their graves and have been for several decades. A FL win will reestablish both proper oversight of such Federal agencies and prohibit further law making usurped by any of them restoring it back to Congress where it belongs  

This thread is about discussing the CDC's stay of the injunction. Not the place to be debating vaccines or masks.

Mask debates are going to get this thread that talks about important legal actions affecting our cruise experiences going forward shut down. Matt will be here soon if it doesn't stop, if he's not already seriously considering it.

I'll relate the question on why Delta variants matter or don't matter to cruising. Here are the facts:
The Delta Variant is more transmissible Rising case numbers globally and regionally are being attributed to growing percentages of Delta Around 90% of new COVID cases numbers are among the world's unvaccinated cohort. 99% of new COVID cases that result in deaths are among the world's unvaccinated cohort. Generally, deaths and hospitalizations from COVID (serious illness) have remained steady. There are regional exceptions and increased disease seriousness tracks inversely with vax rates - the lower the vax rates, the higher the prevalence of serious illness and deaths.  OK, fine. How do I relate these indisputable facts to cruising?
My take is that the SARS2 pandemic is being successfully controlled and managed by a combination of immunity gained from previous exposure to COVID, from vaccinations and from responsible SARS2 mitigation measures that look at the cost of such measures versus the PH benefits derived therefrom. What else matters in this equation is the remarkable growth in the capacity of doctors to manage the disease of admitted COVID patients and promote recovery. That is a stunning and mostly unrecognized contribution to the effective management and control of the virus. But, no. The media insists on creating a false narrative of catastrophe.  
Because of this, I favor an accommodative approach to new case numbers (Great Britain and others) rather than an elimination through lockdown approach (Australia and NZ). I'll acknowledge both have their place depending on circumstances.
Nevertheless, all forms of media are trumpeting a rise in case numbers as signaling dire consequences, end of times and a resurgence of the pandemic. IOW, things are out of control. IMO, they are not. We are where we should be right now in nations that have secured vaccines. Where nations have not done that things aren't so good, and that needs to be and is being addressed.
Given the media narrative, the potential for the imposition of stricter mitigation measures by policy makers in government is high. Never lose sight of that threat. Sometimes the imposition of mitigation measures is not based on the science or facts on the ground but rather on political pressures to "do something." Cruising is high on the list of targets for imposition of them and that is regardless of the facts that cruising resumed over a year ago and the incidence of cruise ships contributing to the spread of SARS 2 is non-existent. Do you think that will matter? I don't.  

Correct, plus old man Doc Winston is only at the General Mercantile once a week to administer tests. 
In regards to cruising, it has been reported that neither resident of Desolation county has ever seen a cruise ship.

Like wait...just two more weeks? Is this another 15 days to slow the spread? 
 
 

This whole thing just makes me believe that the CSO will stand until at least Nov 1st. Since RCG has opted for test cruises, the ships on the docket are fine but I worry about everything else. I don't think the industry will be shuttered again but the restart will become a bit slower. I believe the CDC will force these protocols to be in place for years. I am so tired of this whole pandemic, rather epidemic that has changed not only what we do but how we do things. I am currently running a restaurant with no social distancing, mask or enhanced cleaning. Yet one of the cleanest forms of entertainment/vacation has to waste resources just to be subjected to the draconian practices of the CDC.

I disagree vehemently! ? 

I disagree vehemently! ? 

I disagree vehemently! ? 

I disagree vehemently! ? 

I disagree vehemently! ? 

I disagree vehemently! ? 

I disagree vehemently! ? 

I disagree vehemently! ? 

Unless I missed something, it appears that you just checked all the same boxes. ?

I'd love to see a poll of the members of RCBlog, asking whether people, if given the choice, would choose:
a. a fully vaccinated cruise ship
b. a mixed cruise ship, vaccination status not required
c. a 2019 cruise ship, run exactly the same as a pre-pandemic cruise.

A poll like this seems to be overly focused on vaccination protocols for cruise ships. Maybe that was @nate91objective. Subsequent posts seemed to add sanitation considerations. I think these are two discreet areas.
The VSP (a CDC developed program) is intended to assist the cruise ship industry to prevent and control the introduction, transmission, and spread of gastrointestinal (GI) illnesses on cruise ships. VSP operates under the authority of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S.C. Section 264 Quarantine and Inspection Regulations to Control Communicable Diseases). With the advent of SARS2, the CDC greatly expanded the VSP and the CSO is actually a document enforceable under the VSP (not any more). The VSP says nothing about vaccinations - the CSO should have and probably will if the CDC bothers to update it by next week, present it to Merryday and be a part of any future mediation to take place before July 18th.
We all want the cruise ships we are on to be sanitary and we've developed our own expectations about this. The cruise lines are attentive to these and I think they do an outstanding job. Do they need the government breathing down their necks to insure the ships are sanitary? Some would argue they do. I'm not among them to the extent it is done presently.
Vaccinating passengers and crew to prevent the transmission of SARS2 is a different subject separate from sanitation - although I can see how there is a relationship between disease prevention through vaccination and disease prevention through sanitation measures. One posters points out that where you stand on cruise line vaccination protocols is largely dependent on the level of risk of getting COVID you are willing to accept given your own assessment of the myriad factors that impact that risk.
In daily life with COVID I've seen the whole range of behaviors that involve risk taking. We're going to see that reflected in any poll asking the question as it is framed.  The more COVID  risk averse a person is wrt cruising, the greater the likelihood that person is going to chose cruises with the entire cruise ship vaccinated and masks required on board. The opposite is also true. One thing I think the CDC has failed at badly is developing the tools and advising us on how to use them to make rational individual COVID risk assessments.