UNCFanatik

2 minutes ago, MrMarc said:

I am not sure that I follow them all, but in general I do.  My view of the situation is the exact opposite of yours.  I too have looked at the data, and I have been able to confirm that every single argument against the CDC that claims to be based on "science" actually is not.  Literally every one.  I have been able to confirm everything that supports masks, distancing and vaccines as either settled scientific fact, or at worst uncertainty that then errs on the side of caution.  I know we are turning this into a political argument and we should stop.  From my experience though, there is a vast silent majority that disagrees with you.  That doesn't mean you are wrong, just that a lot of people think you are.  And there is no question that majorities have been wrong.

Settled scientific fact? Is there even such a thing? Shouldnt science never be settled? That dangerous attitude stops any valid dissent and difference of opinion among scientists and leads to group think.  And there is quite the difference in science and doing things that err on the side of caution. 

Masks for instance....Japan has one of highest masks compliance in the world and their mask mandate did not stop the spike in covid cases around the Olympics and for all that Australia is doing, it STILL hasnt stopped the spread. You know why Zero Covid is a fantasy. SO I am curious how you have confirmed makes efficacy for example and how you think a flimsy cloth mask or neck gaiter protects ANYONE. 

6 minutes ago, MrMarc said:

Your entire premise is based on the fact that you determine what the science and data says, and the vast majority of experts that does not agree with you are wrong.  Are you going to say that you have no political agenda behind your opnion?  I agree 100% that you have the right to think and say that, just realize that a whole lot of people do not.

Here is what the "experts" did during the pandemic that did nothing to stop the spread of Covid:

1. Close outdoor childrens playgrounds

2. Close beaches and public spaces. Its no wonder obesity increased during pandemic and come to found out that obesity is number 1 co-morbidity in covid deaths. But "experts" said to stay locked down inside

3. Install plexiglass in public spaces. Does nothing against an aerosolized virus

4. Recommended masks wearing outdoors. 

Just to name a few. So excuse me while I question these "experts" that you claim we should be showing undying devotion and faith in

2 minutes ago, MrMarc said:

Your entire premise is based on the fact that you determine what the science and data says, and the vast majority of experts that does not agree with you are wrong.  Are you going to say that you have no political agenda behind your opnion?  I agree 100% that you have the right to think and say that, just realize that a whole lot of people do not.

My premise is based on the fact that the CDC "experts" are driven more by politics than public health. And there lies the problem. 

I am driven by looking at the data over the course of the pandemic to see what has and has not been effective and not to keep repeating the same protocols that have shown to not affect the spread of Covid but instead strictly based on politics

And do you follow every CDC guideline/recommendation in your day to day life?

12 minutes ago, MrMarc said:

Or maybe because there is still an emergency going on as defined by actual experts, even if the internet experts disagree.  Just because you haven't felt the effects of it, millions of others have, and still are.  It's not like Yurtle the Turtle, you don't have to see it yourself for it to be real.  I also wonder if anyone who thinks this is wrong has considered that they are not seeing the cases because of the precautions that are in place, in other words maybe it is working, and we should not stop it yet.

Are these the Public Health experts that deny natural immunity and still mandate vaccines for those who have already had Covid? 

8 minutes ago, MrMarc said:

Or maybe because there is still an emergency going on as defined by actual experts, even if the internet experts disagree.  Just because you haven't felt the effects of it, millions of others have, and still are.  It's not like Yurtle the Turtle, you don't have to see it yourself for it to be real.  I also wonder if anyone who thinks this is wrong has considered that they are not seeing the cases because of the precautions that are in place, in other words maybe it is working, and we should not stop it yet.

Yup, I see cases plummet in FL with no State issued mask mandates and vaccine mandates! 

Tell us who the Actual Experts are? I would really like to know....

28 minutes ago, MrMarc said:

You are using your own definitions and ideas, assuming the entire CDC doesn't know what it is doing.  Many other people are doing the same.  The cruise lines are following the people they recognize as experts in the field, without any political agenda.  Nothing personal, but while I would certainly follow your advice on actual cruising issues, I would not on health issues.  I believe the cruise lines are doing the same thing.  Their own experts recommended the same basic protocols, in general, as the CDC.  I think the cruise lines are following the advice of people who actually are experts in this area and staying away from any political agenda.  They really cannot afford to go too far, too fast.  If people who cruise do not feel safe on the ships, they will not go.  I am fairly sure that the cruise lines are doing their own research into what their potential customers want.

If one thing has been exposed is that there are no TRUE "experts" when it comes to a novel coronavirus. 

Back in May the Director of the CDC said vaccinated people do not spread the virus...guess what they do. She has been wrong on Covid MANY times. The CDC director went against her own "experts" regarding boosters recommendations and overruled them because that is what the WH and politics demanded. Top "Experts" in the FDA resigned over the booster shot issues. You can put your blind faith in CDC if you would like. 

And do you truly follow ALL the guidelines from the CDC "experts" in your day to day life?  

A BIG Issue is that the CDC is politically driven no matter what party is in control. 

The Cruise Lines are following whatever protocols they think will keep them sailing. The are in contact with CDC officials and those CDC officials are part of the political agenda that the WH sets for them

Cruise ship passengers can assess their own risk by reviewing cruise lines health protocols and determining whether they feel safe cruising without government oversight. Some of these protocols are causing cancellations and reduced bookings. People who booked cruises well in advance for late 2021 and early 2022 sailings did not anticipate that some of these protocols would be in place and unless certain protocols change, there will be more cancellations

There are current protocols in place that are purely Covid theater and have nothing to do with stopping the spread of Covid. Having someone fill my soda cup vs me filling my own cup at a freesytle machine does not protect me from Covid. 

Walking into a vaccinated designated dining room wearing a mask that i take off when I sit, does nothing to protect anyone from Covid.

I am all for protocols that are actually based on science and data, but unfortunately the cruise lines have to keep up the theater just to appease the CDC

IN 2 weeks we will see what happens to the CSO and how the cruise lines respond. 

4 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Only in Florida is the CSO optional. But no way they wouldn't follow it out of fear of what the CDC might do.

Agreed and that in itself is the major problem. Trying to appease a politically driven health agency. If ever there were an oxymoron...

4 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Cruise lines follow the CDC because they have to. 

Otherwise they never would have stood up the Healthy Sail panel to come up with their own recommendations.

Its a fine line. Currently they do not have to follow the CSO BUT the cruise lines all want to avoid another shutdown. 

I know they have to appease the CDC but that is such a moving target with the goal posts moving every day

Anyone have any idea if Laser Tag is scheduled to restart on any of the ships in the near future? 

50 minutes ago, twangster said:

Maybe the CDC has determined that lifeboats need to offer social distancing so guests have to be distributed evenly across all muster stations.  

This is just weird.

I would think if I find myself in a lifeboat, I have a lot bigger concerns than Covid at that moment. But that’s just me 

12 minutes ago, Traveler said:

That actually one of the best thing happened due to C19 . To many times we all saw people grab food on their hands or even returning food to trays. If not for C19 prevention at least for Noro .

I can agree on the buffets for non-covid reasons but I think its ok for people to get their own sodas from the freestyle coke machines without risk of getting Covid. 

6 minutes ago, GKMCruising said:

Given that the union leaders are usually the ones supporting and organizing sick-outs and protests... yes?

But there are rules that dictate what they can and cannot do and union contracts with the airlines. 

If this was not a Union initiated action that violated their contracts then of course they would not admit it. 

What do you think the plausible explanation for what we saw with Southwest and now other airlines? And United is prepared to fire 232 employees over vaccine mandate

Do you think this all is an incredible coincidence?

1 hour ago, Matt said:

That is not true

From Associated Press: Unsupported ‘sickout’ claims take flight amid Southwest woes

 

Do you think the Airline unions would admit to an illegal work action? Is it just a coincidence that the Airlines that have a Dec 8 vaccine deadline because they are consider government contractors all of a sudden have a huge cancellation issue? It wasnt weather for Southwest because other airlines didnt experience it. 

Time will tell what is the true cause but to dismiss this off hand is not wise nor is it a given. I would be VERY concerned if I had an upcoming flight to make a Cruise and would be looking for other travel alternatives.

LETS GO BRANDON!!!!!

1 hour ago, alamode123 said:

Not exactly a scientific definition of effectiveness. More like protocols you like or don't like.

Contact tracing via the new bands is also very important.

I've received one of the new cabin emails. I'm in a wait and see attitude. Better than cancelling cruises.

I dont like them because they have not shown to be effective to reduce the spread of Covid. 

AND they are not doing consistent contact tracing. AND contact tracing is only effective if someone with a case of Covid can be identified. There have been passengers on cruise ships that have had unreported and unknown Covid cases. And Royal cant track all 500k passengers since the restart when they go come down with Covid. 

7 minutes ago, Matt said:

Richard Fain said since restart half a million guests and only had one hundred and forty one cases. That's the protocols working extremely well, especially when you consider how much it has spread on land.

Point taken but you cannot lump all protocols all together and proclaim each one of them is effective. And remember that is 141 REPORTED cases of people WITH symptoms. You cannot believe that out of 500k people that only 141 people had cases of Covid. That defies logic and general statistics. I can guarantee you that more than 141 people out of 500k had Covid since the restart. 

Effective Protocols:

Vaccine Requirements

Reduced Capacity 

Not Effective Protocols:

Masks. Especially staff wearing masks outside and at Coco Cay

Staff serving buffet...ice cream...drinks...etc. 

Debatable protocol:

Testing. Only gives a snapshot. People could still have covid cases and board ship and there is the whole matter of presenting a fake document that says you had a negative test. If they tested all passengers at port then that would be more effective but that is a logistical nightmare

Royal is going to mess around and face another wave of cancellations. They are not compelled to follow the CSO now. I know they are trying to appease the CDC Gods but at what cost to their business and customer satisfaction. Covid cases are in decline in the US especially in the South. I know there is  concern about the Fall/Winter in NE states but Royal cant keep this up. Ignore the CDC just like we do on their other numerous recommendations for our daily lives. The CDC has been defeated in court over the CSO. 

Covid will be endemic and we need to act as such and move forward and drop all the needless restrictions that have been proven over the last 1 1/2 years to not stop the spread of Covid. 

Stupid question:

If i want to get VOOM for 2 devices on cruise planner, do I select just myself or do i have to select the person sharing with as well?

Yes, Covid logic. Photos stop the Covids from spreading. 

More Mask theater and why masking on cruise ships needs to end. 

12 minutes ago, JohnK6404 said:

Hi UNCFanatik!

(1) Yes… you can order it through the app once onboard…

(2) Wow bands… temporarily pulled. Guest services told me that they are modifying them and will roll them out in the future. I believe they are combing the tracelet technology into one band.

(3) Laser tag… not listed on Cruise Compass or app unless I missed it. Not sure when returning. However, the Escape room is open again and we are going today.

(4) I don’t see the Love and Marriage Show anywhere… they may have replaced it with the “Perfect Couple” game show. Today and tomorrow they are hosting it…

(5) Correct, at least for now you must wait until you board to make reservations.

 

Have a great cruise!

 

 

Thank you! I appreciate the info!

A couple of questions if I may

1. Are they offering messaging through the Royal App for $1.99/day? If so, where would I go to sign up?

2. Wow bands? Do they have them on Oasis? Anyone using them?

3. Laser Tag? Are they running it now? If not, have you heard when it may return?

4. Love and Marriage show?

5. Is it correct that I can only make reservations for shows when I board and not ahead of time? Is this done through the Royal App? 

Thoroughly enjoying your trip report! Sailing out of Miami on the Oasis on Nov 21. 

I have rented a cabana there. How early can I access it? 9am? 
 

ship docks at 7am

I reserved a cabana in water park and cruise planner just asked for contact person. How will they handle tickets for park since it comes with 6 of them since it didnt ask me on cruise planner? 

I booked with a TA and they received a group rate.

Its past final payment and I see where the price has dropped on my sailing. Am I correct that since my cabin was booked by TA under group rate that I would not be eligible for rate adjustments or OBC now?

Just curious if the salsa bar at El Loco Fresh is open and if it’s self serve or does an attendant have to serve to you 

same with the dog house on boardwalk… how do they handle condiments? Individual packets or from dispenser 

I have been looking at shore excursions and going off on my own for St Thomas. I see there are fixed rates per person for taxis. I also see that they offer a $25 per person taxi tour. Does anyone know where that would take you? 
 

We have decided we would like to go to mountain top… beach time at magens bay and then to Charlotte Amalie for shopping before headed back to ship. 
 

would taxi tour take us to mountain top and then drop off at magens bay and then be on our own to get taxi to Charlotte Amalie?

lastly, anyone have any experience with snorkeling at magens bay?

thanks!